On February 13 2014 01:08 elmerpogs wrote: @BUG While playing AI TvP, I planted mines somewhere near Ps expo and when i lured stalkers and DTs (no detection yet and I didnt use scan), the stalkers died to mines but DTs just walk through the mines. Any solution to that?
Spider mines are not supposed to activate on stealthed units.
What?That's crazy! I guess you are referring to widow mines not spider mines. Do you even play broodwar?Broodwar spidermines cant detect DTs but they explode while dts passes through them. I dont play SC2 and I only play SB. If in Starbow they are called "Spider mines" then the concept should be broodwar mines. Spidermines can save you as a T against DT opening. Take this scenario: Your P opponent opens DT rush, you open mine expand build in SB, what if you dont have scan and or turrets yet. You've planted mines on certain location and then DT's just walks through it?This new spidermine needs to be fixed imo.
On February 13 2014 01:08 elmerpogs wrote: @BUG While playing AI TvP, I planted mines somewhere near Ps expo and when i lured stalkers and DTs (no detection yet and I didnt use scan), the stalkers died to mines but DTs just walk through the mines. Any solution to that?
Spider mines are not supposed to activate on stealthed units.
What?That's crazy! I guess you are referring to widow mines not spider mines. Do you even play broodwar?Broodwar spidermines cant detect DTs but they explode while dts passes through them. I dont play SC2 and I only play SB. If in Starbow they are called "Spider mines" then the concept should be broodwar mines. Spidermines can save you as a T against DT opening. Take this scenario: Your P opponent opens DT rush, you open mine expand build in SB, what if you dont have scan and or turrets yet. You've planted mines on certain location and then DT's just walks through it?This new spidermine needs to be fixed imo.
In bw you can kill the comsat building with dts, but you can't kill orbitals so terran already has better dt defense in starbow.
On February 12 2014 12:43 Kaos_StarCraft wrote: I am also curious about this; whether there will be some kind of auto-launcher which puts you into your mm game or whether finding games will be manually done through the website etc. Maybe even a 3rd-party program of some kind? Anyways really really hype for the ladder, cannot wait to sink all my free time into it and destroy what remains of my fragile artist hands :D
No 3rd party program is needed. Sc2 Mafia games use an in-program/in-server points system that records your progress and generates unlocked rewards based on accrued points. Perhaps this kind of system can be used for Starbow?
On February 12 2014 12:43 Kaos_StarCraft wrote: I am also curious about this; whether there will be some kind of auto-launcher which puts you into your mm game or whether finding games will be manually done through the website etc. Maybe even a 3rd-party program of some kind? Anyways really really hype for the ladder, cannot wait to sink all my free time into it and destroy what remains of my fragile artist hands :D
No 3rd party program is needed. Sc2 Mafia games use an in-program/in-server points system that records your progress and generates unlocked rewards based on accrued points. Perhaps this kind of system can be used for Starbow?
I can mention this I guess.
The Starbow ladder will be 3rd party. The way to do ranking in-game is through bank files. This might be the easiest for the players but there are several disadvantages of doing it this way:
1. Bank files are easily hack-able to change your rank. 2. A bank-file ladder system will not communicate with a matchmaking system (you are not allowed to send map info to external servers) 3. A bank ladder system will not get you a full ladder, just internal ranks. In other words, you know your rank and you opponents rank but there is no "list" of all players with all ranks.
This works great for in-game stuff like Mafia, but not so well for Starbow.
The ladder in Starbow will be using a 3rd party program to keep track of your rank by analyzing the replays from the matches and won't interfere with battle.net code or protocols.
@ Mine not detecting. Starbow =/= BW. Some units / features in BW has not been carried over to Starbow as the mine not detecting cloaked units. It is doable in the editor, but there is some strategic reason for it which I do not remember. Don't be too shocked at there being differences in units you know and love from BW.
I think a better discussion than: "It was in BW it should be in Starbow" should be: - "Why should they detect cloaked units, or why should they not detect?"
I am not saying that this design is good, but it is here by design and it is, ofc open for discussion.
I just found out marauders as medium seem to be intentional(?), which i found a big problem. Btw, why hasnt anyone written about this change? Its quite relevant..
So marauder beats hydras right now, even without stim. They beat lurkers, they beat ultralisk. The weakness is zerglings.
This is just quite weird
@xiphias its not by design, its because it doesnt work in the editor
It makes terran able to go units as defend instead of passiveplay, and this is a threat to protoss so he needs to react towards the threat so yes. We do.
The negative things here is. DT opening is already worse than in bw more or less cuz terran starts with a scan through his ecobooster(OB) "4free". The other negative thing is, terran cant use his energy on units/eco the way he wants if he opens vultures.
So my suggestions for all of this is: In with the academy. This academy unlocks medics and bats on barack(Techlab still exist on rax) Move the ebay upgrade(Scan) to academy And remove the scan on OB. Instead it comes through the upgrade(seperate energy, yes)
The reason for not having it on ebay is it already unlocks turrets, aka double detection
Perhaps cheaper cost and buildtime on the scan upgrade, cuz of more threats. Sentinel from protoss(stargate), and banelings/lings-delay lair for zerg.
On February 13 2014 03:41 Foxxan wrote: It makes terran able to go units as defend instead of passiveplay, and this is a threat to protoss so he needs to react towards the threat so yes. We do.
The negative things here is. DT opening is already worse than in bw more or less cuz terran starts with a scan through his ecobooster(OB) "4free". The other negative thing is, terran cant use his energy on units/eco the way he wants if he opens vultures.
So my suggestions for all of this is: In with the academy. This academy unlocks medics and bats on barack(Techlab still exist on rax) Move the ebay upgrade(Scan) to academy And remove the scan on OB. Instead it comes through the upgrade(seperate energy, yes)
The reason for not having it on ebay is it already unlocks turrets, aka double detection
Perhaps cheaper cost and buildtime on the scan upgrade, cuz of more threats. Sentinel from protoss(stargate), and banelings/lings-delay lair for zerg.
50/50 cost-30buildtime~
I dont think I want spidermines to detect dts. I do not say the changes you are proposing are good or bad design, but you are suggesting alot of changes the entire macro mechanic of the terran race to modify the design of a specific unit. So its quite risky to do:/
I concur with having something done with the Scan ability and how early it is available(I'm a terran ) It's not like the comsat which was available much later. I'd actually prefer having the Scan be available with Engi bay and having SpiderMines detect DTs. Just like BW.
Oh well, the academy is not necessary so i suggest then instead that terran do not start with the scan on OB - it gets available once he upgrade it on e-bay, with a cheaper cost.
50/50 30BT on ebay 50 energy cost, starts with 2charges. can store up to 4charges.
On February 13 2014 04:08 Jawra wrote: I concur with having something done with the Scan ability and how early it is available(I'm a terran ) It's not like the comsat which was available much later. I'd actually prefer having the Scan be available with Engi bay and having SpiderMines detect DTs. Just like BW.
I don't see the point in Mines detecting DTs, I really don't. That just makes it a lot easier for the Terran because you are safe from the DTs with just Mines.
On February 13 2014 04:08 Jawra wrote: I concur with having something done with the Scan ability and how early it is available(I'm a terran ) It's not like the comsat which was available much later. I'd actually prefer having the Scan be available with Engi bay and having SpiderMines detect DTs. Just like BW.
I don't see the point in Mines detecting DTs, I really don't. That just makes it a lot easier for the Terran because you are safe from the DTs with just Mines.
The point would be to create new unit interactions, to allow skillful players to occasionally defend themselves from dark templar through clever use of mines. I don't think it's necessaryhowever, it's very random for dark templar to walk into mines so maybe it's better to require other forms of detection. Mines can still kill them if you scan first, and I think scans are easier to get in starbow versus brood war. I can see why people want to implement it though.
On February 13 2014 04:08 Jawra wrote: I concur with having something done with the Scan ability and how early it is available(I'm a terran ) It's not like the comsat which was available much later. I'd actually prefer having the Scan be available with Engi bay and having SpiderMines detect DTs. Just like BW.
I don't see the point in Mines detecting DTs, I really don't. That just makes it a lot easier for the Terran because you are safe from the DTs with just Mines.
The point would be to create new unit interactions, to allow skillful players to occasionally defend themselves from dark templar through clever use of mines. I don't think it's necessaryhowever, it's very random for dark templar to walk into mines so maybe it's better to require other forms of detection. Mines can still kill them if you scan first, and I think scans are easier to get in starbow versus brood war. I can see why people want to implement it though.
I don't know. I mean, only good and skillful thing I see is DTs pulling Mines into Siege Tank lines, like we saw that in BW. But point is, Vultures are core units in TvP, in the mid game whole map is covered with Mines, of course you can clear some but some of them you can't. And I don't think that DTs are actually any good against Terran right now and this will probably just make them worse and will sort of remove them from the match-up.
On February 13 2014 04:08 Jawra wrote: I concur with having something done with the Scan ability and how early it is available(I'm a terran ) It's not like the comsat which was available much later. I'd actually prefer having the Scan be available with Engi bay and having SpiderMines detect DTs. Just like BW.
I don't see the point in Mines detecting DTs, I really don't. That just makes it a lot easier for the Terran because you are safe from the DTs with just Mines.
The point would be to create new unit interactions, to allow skillful players to occasionally defend themselves from dark templar through clever use of mines. I don't think it's necessaryhowever, it's very random for dark templar to walk into mines so maybe it's better to require other forms of detection. Mines can still kill them if you scan first, and I think scans are easier to get in starbow versus brood war. I can see why people want to implement it though.
I don't know. I mean, only good and skillful thing I see is DTs pulling Mines into Siege Tank lines, like we saw that in BW. But point is, Vultures are core units in TvP, in the mid game whole map is covered with Mines, of course you can clear some but some of them you can't. And I don't think that DTs are actually any good against Terran right now and this will probably just make them worse and will sort of remove them from the match-up.
I do agree, but a cynical person would say that you can use warp prisms to maneuver dark templar, or you can more pro-actively clear mines, or you can have an advancing zealot suiciding into mines to clear a path, or you can try to predict the mine placement and avoid them. All requiring skill. I think it does come down to the question of: "do terran already have enough ways to negate dark templar play?" And that's something that's very difficult to answer without seeing more games being played, especially since it's not necessarily the case that you can look to brood war for inspiration due to difference in accessibility of comsat in starbow vs bw. I don't have enough experience with brood war though, maybe someone else has some good insight?
On February 13 2014 01:08 elmerpogs wrote: @BUG While playing AI TvP, I planted mines somewhere near Ps expo and when i lured stalkers and DTs (no detection yet and I didnt use scan), the stalkers died to mines but DTs just walk through the mines. Any solution to that?
Spider mines are not supposed to activate on stealthed units.
What?That's crazy! I guess you are referring to widow mines not spider mines. Do you even play broodwar?Broodwar spidermines cant detect DTs but they explode while dts passes through them. I dont play SC2 and I only play SB. If in Starbow they are called "Spider mines" then the concept should be broodwar mines. Spidermines can save you as a T against DT opening. Take this scenario: Your P opponent opens DT rush, you open mine expand build in SB, what if you dont have scan and or turrets yet. You've planted mines on certain location and then DT's just walks through it?This new spidermine needs to be fixed imo.
I know you will probably cry troll but I disagree, Terran doesn't need to be even better versus DTs.
I dont see a problem with the current DT in TvP matchup(from a Terran point of view), maybe scan is too early but making it easier for Terran to deflect DTs is absolutely not necessary imo. Also: Giving Terran another reason to go mech instead of Bio is also not rly needed, no one goes Bio in this match up I think. (or rather, every terran builds Vultures vs Protoss anyways, i know the proposed change was not meant to be an incentive to make mech more viable, but im just throwing it out there).
If we think about Scan, its different than in Broodwar(and comes earlier): - no Academy needed - Orbital has lots of hp(cant be destroyed easily, Comsat was easy do destroy) - Scan costs only 35 Energy
I think its fun the way it is atm, in every TvP I have to check/scout/think about Calling down SCVs or saving up Energy. This is more dynamic(at least in my mind) than just blindly spamming mines and calling down scvs without any dangers whatsoever.
Just to make this DT Mine Discussion complete:
On February 13 2014 02:37 Foxxan wrote: The reason they do not kill dts is because it cant be done in the editor.
Unless Decemberscalm HIMSELF says so, I wont believe it.
EPT
) It's not like the comsat which was available much later. I'd actually prefer having the Scan be available with Engi bay and having SpiderMines detect DTs. Just like BW.
