EPTOn January 23 2014 09:08 TeeTS wrote:
and exactly this is why the game is dying at a way faster speed than a year ago.
and exactly this is why the game is dying at a way faster speed than a year ago.
Can you graph that for me?
David Kim's Current Balance Thoughts - Page 54
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bittman
Australia8759 Posts
Can you graph that for me? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 23 2014 09:15 Wombat_NI wrote: Yeah be all high and mighty about it, while you're at it go into Starbow and complain that people are enjoying it. But I never said that about Starbow. I specifically have said that I think its great that people enjoy it and its an awesome mod. The math is to complex. Rate of "ded gaem" is very hard to chart and you need a 4D model to really get a handle on it. | ||
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PesteNoire
151 Posts
I really do not understand it. There should have been some balance patch over a month ago to fix the MSC and the power it adds to the blink all in. The longer they wait, the more players they lose. Seriously, do they even care at this point? | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
You could extrapolate from this: ![[image loading]](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8028950/TL/Monthly%20viewers%202013%2012%20all.png) | ||
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terrantosaur
42 Posts
I really fear forSC2 actually because, quite aside from the frustrations of playing the game, I don't even want to watch now. I wouldn't watch Tiger if he could only play with 3 clubs in his bag or Lionel Messi if he had to play with weights in his boots. It stops becoming sport and becomes something not only dull but sad. It's like burning a De Vinci painting when you make players as technically gifted as Innovation and Flash look like chumps. There must be a lot of others like me (judging by the way the viewership of the Code A games today plummeted as soon as Innovation lost his second match). It is such a shame. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
People watch less Esports during the holidays, when there are few Esports events due to the holidays? And September, because fuck September. Everyone hates when school starts. | ||
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SidianTheBard
United States2474 Posts
Meh, thanksgiving is at the end of November for many of us. Vacations + Christmas + Family + New Years all in December, it obviously should be a low month. | ||
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bittman
Australia8759 Posts
I have extrapolated that the game was dead in September, but it got better. And then the game took a christmas holiday. EDIT: (By the way, it's really obvious why the numbers are low in December...Here's a hint: It has nothing to do with balance.) | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26005 Posts
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Ammanas
Slovakia2166 Posts
On January 23 2014 09:38 Wombat_NI wrote: It's not some dichotomy between 'the game is dead' and 'the game is fine'. If you seriously think there aren't issues that could do with addressing, that would actually improve it and bring back some of the people who have left then fair enough. It's not what I'm seeing from people I know or on here Those issues are not balance related though. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26005 Posts
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Ammanas
Slovakia2166 Posts
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BuddhaMonk
781 Posts
On January 23 2014 09:48 Ammanas wrote: Mechanics are not hard enough to ensure better mechanical player wins most of the time AND map makers cannot design maps around imbalances because of FFs. Two things that BW was mostly using for balancing and because of which BW is held as pinnacle of balance in RTS. Ahh yes, the myth of perfect balance in BW. http://i.imgur.com/gmXwO.png Despite the fact that yes, map makers were designing maps with balance in mind, the win-rates fluctuated even more than SC2. | ||
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imrusty269
United States1404 Posts
On January 23 2014 09:39 Ammanas wrote: Those issues are not balance related though. So the game is balanced? | ||
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Ammanas
Slovakia2166 Posts
On January 23 2014 09:56 BuddhaMonk wrote: Ahh yes, the myth of perfect balance in BW. http://i.imgur.com/gmXwO.png Despite the fact that yes, map makers were designing maps with balance in mind, the win-rates fluctuated even more than SC2. well yes, that's exactly what I am saying. better mechanical player won most of the time in BW because of how hard the mechanics were and the remaining balance was being done by map makers. Neither of those can be achieved in SC2. More or less, yeah. Some pushes are too strong atm, which normally could be solved by map makers and evolving metagame - neither of which happens because of more problematic design choices. | ||
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bittman
Australia8759 Posts
It will never be balanced for everyone. Thus is the nature of multiplayer balance with living and unique players. Tell me of the balanced game that fictionally exists somewhere. Even tic-tac-toe and chess is imbalanced to the first player. I also agree with the sentiment that any issues to do with the game have nothing to do with balance. I stopped playing sc2 a while ago. It wasn't because I couldn't beat protoss. I've slowed down watching of sc2 too. That's not because I think swarm hosts are op. Honestly, people bitching about balance is a norm for any game. LoL is pretty clearly killing sc2 in popularity at this moment, but can't watch a stream currently without complaints about almost every champion. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
P.S. That's also a hint as to why the winrates are so even. If you cannot practice a MU, you play worse. The exact opposite is the case for terrans, ofc. With the exception of TvT. | ||
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KrazyTrumpet
United States2520 Posts
On January 23 2014 09:42 Wombat_NI wrote: Unless you consider 'amount of effort to win a game' as something immaterial and not worth considering. lol, you mother fucking Terran idiots always say shit like that and its so stupidly untrue. Get off your high horse, your race isn't harder to play, you just need to adapt. Isn't that what you shit heads were telling Zerg/Toss during GomTvT? Seriously, the Terran pros that have trying new stuff and adapting their play are still winning. It's the idiots that are still doing the exact same thing from WoL beta that are crying about not being able to win. I've been seeing some Terrans using more hellbat and widow mines in TvP and having very good success with them. Its like the rest of you retards forgot midgame hellbats with blue flame absolutely shit all over Zealots, or that widow mines do bonus damage vs shields. But no, since the same MMM comp that has been used for THREE YEARS has been figured out and Protoss players are FINALLY starting to be consistent with their mechanics and micro, it's obviously P being op. Jesus dude, you are seriously one of the WORST whiners on this forum, and one of the reasons I have trouble stomaching these forums anymore. If you hate everything so much, go away. Christ. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
On January 23 2014 10:02 bittman wrote: It will never be balanced for everyone. Thus is the nature of multiplayer balance with living and unique players. Tell me of the balanced game that fictionally exists somewhere. Even tic-tac-toe and chess is imbalanced to the first player. I also agree with the sentiment that any issues to do with the game have nothing to do with balance. I stopped playing sc2 a while ago. It wasn't because I couldn't beat protoss. I've slowed down watching of sc2 too. That's not because I think swarm hosts are op. Honestly, people bitching about balance is a norm for any game. LoL is pretty clearly killing sc2 in popularity at this moment, but can't watch a stream currently without complaints about almost every champion. You know, just rattling off a bunch of factors that you don't think affect viewership or the playerbase is not exactly a useful contribution. Talking about the reasons that actually do influence this would be far more productive. Units or abilities can be shitty and broken without being OP. Forcefield could have 50% of it's current duration and still be a stupid spell. Swarm hosts could have 30 hp and still be super boring and obnoxious. The binary mindset of completely fine or hopelessly broken is not helpful. The game is not dead or hopeless or terrible. It's not fine either. lol, you mother fucking Terran idiots always say shit like that and its so stupidly untrue. Get off your high horse, your race isn't harder to play, you just need to adapt. Isn't that what you shit heads were telling Zerg/Toss during GomTvT? Seriously, the Terran pros that have trying new stuff and adapting their play are still winning. It's the idiots that are still doing the exact same thing from WoL beta that are crying about not being able to win. I've been seeing some Terrans using more hellbat and widow mines in TvP and having very good success with them. Its like the rest of you retards forgot midgame hellbats with blue flame absolutely shit all over Zealots, or that widow mines do bonus damage vs shields. But no, since the same MMM comp that has been used for THREE YEARS has been figured out and Protoss players are FINALLY starting to be consistent with their mechanics and micro, it's obviously P being op. Jesus dude, you are seriously one of the WORST whiners on this forum, and one of the reasons I have trouble stomaching these forums anymore. If you hate everything so much, go away. Christ. Wombat plays protoss. Please stop being a jerk. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
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