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On January 07 2014 02:03 JustPassingBy wrote:
All this talk about tanks and extra damage to shields looks incredibly like sloppy patchworking to me without addressing the real problem: the immortal. In my opinion, they should just give the immortal a cooldown on their hardened shields. This will make them worse against tanks in a fight, but still allow the protoss to retreat with them without suffering too much damage, should he be caught off guard.
I would suggest the same for raven abilities, that way it takes significantly more ravens to cloud the skies with pdd and seeker missiles. And a super deathball of raven + vikings won't be able to deplete all their energy into pure death at once.
Adressing only the Immortal looks incredibly like sloppy patchworking to me, since it doesn't adress Mech being extremly weak vs most other Protoss midgame strategies ("hello Archons") as well and Mech having little timing capabilities to allow for anything but extreme turtlemech as a playstyle. Similarily for TvZ.
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On January 07 2014 01:05 ThatGuy101 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2014 06:32 Faust852 wrote:On January 06 2014 06:15 ZeromuS wrote:On January 06 2014 06:00 Faust852 wrote:
I don't think PO is fine, it allow the protoss to play way too safe and greedy so he ends up teching much faster. The protoss should have more than one gate before teching to HT imo. You cant tech to ht with storm with one gate. Not possible. I have a hard time holding the 10 min push while getting hts and +2 armor with anything less than 7 gates ready for when the push comes. I still have a hard time hitting the macro benchmarks and chronos for a proper ht and observer build with armor ups vs a well timed medivac pressure. Let alone a 5 rax before 3rd OC version. You probably don't do it well because you should be able to hold to 10 min 4 medivacs push with like 3/4 gates and some HTs. Man, 7 gates are close to be allin at this point. 7 gates into 10:30/11:00 third is pretty standard for HT builds if Terran doesn't 3CC, because zealots are cheap and high templar have a high warp-in cooldown so 7 gates allows sustained production while banking enough to take a third. I think there are some builds which do tech to storm off of one gate (Dear's storm drop build iirc) but they delay robo and forge compared to standard HT builds and only really work against standard Terran builds (i.e. Reaper FE into more barracks or CC first).
Basically what they are saying is, they want to be able to take CC first and roll over Protoss before they have any tech. Terran taking CC first and not being punished for it, how is that different then Protoss 1 gate FE and teching up? It's not and it's a standard response to a standard Terran build. If you don't want the Protoss to get away with 1 gate FE, then do a build that punishes that opener ???? It has nothing to do with PO, because PO alone can't hold off a terran bio ball with medivacs.
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On January 07 2014 07:13 ArTiFaKs wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2014 01:05 ThatGuy101 wrote:On January 06 2014 06:32 Faust852 wrote:On January 06 2014 06:15 ZeromuS wrote:On January 06 2014 06:00 Faust852 wrote:
I don't think PO is fine, it allow the protoss to play way too safe and greedy so he ends up teching much faster. The protoss should have more than one gate before teching to HT imo. You cant tech to ht with storm with one gate. Not possible. I have a hard time holding the 10 min push while getting hts and +2 armor with anything less than 7 gates ready for when the push comes. I still have a hard time hitting the macro benchmarks and chronos for a proper ht and observer build with armor ups vs a well timed medivac pressure. Let alone a 5 rax before 3rd OC version. You probably don't do it well because you should be able to hold to 10 min 4 medivacs push with like 3/4 gates and some HTs. Man, 7 gates are close to be allin at this point. 7 gates into 10:30/11:00 third is pretty standard for HT builds if Terran doesn't 3CC, because zealots are cheap and high templar have a high warp-in cooldown so 7 gates allows sustained production while banking enough to take a third. I think there are some builds which do tech to storm off of one gate (Dear's storm drop build iirc) but they delay robo and forge compared to standard HT builds and only really work against standard Terran builds (i.e. Reaper FE into more barracks or CC first). Basically what they are saying is, they want to be able to take CC first and roll over Protoss before they have any tech. Terran taking CC first and not being punished for it, how is that different then Protoss 1 gate FE and teching up? It's not and it's a standard response to a standard Terran build. If you don't want the Protoss to get away with 1 gate FE, then do a build that punishes that opener ???? It has nothing to do with PO, because PO alone can't hold off a terran bio ball with medivacs.
Do you play this game?
1 gate + PO can actually hold until 10:30.
Cc first is highly abusable, it's just that protoss is greedy too in the opening.
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I like the attitude blizzard has coming with these balance changes but the solutions they present to mech are not the right way to go.
Buffing mech air does not make sense as skyterran is already considered one of if not the strongest lategame armies. Each terran starport unit excluding the BC has a number of roles for both harassment as well as benefit to the main army.
Siege tanks already do decent damage to armored. This change will not affect immortals, the strongest siege tank counter. This change will not affect archons, another hardcounter to tanks. This will only help in tvp for blink stalker allins, lategame protoss vs mech terran rarely relies on stalkers or collosus for a lategame composition.
EMP is a ghost ability. The ghost is a bio unit built from the barracks. If the solution to mech becomes a ghost buff I will be very disappointed in blizzards lack of conviction to make mech work.
It's nice to finally have a word on tvp though, the matchup hasn't been talked about publicly in a long time as far as I know other than the fact that it remained around 50%. The MSC change was much needed good to see happen.
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On January 07 2014 08:43 Soldier92 wrote:
I like the attitude blizzard has coming with these balance changes but the solutions they present to mech are not the right way to go.
Buffing mech air does not make sense as skyterran is already considered one of if not the strongest lategame armies. Each terran starport unit excluding the BC has a number of roles for both harassment as well as benefit to the main army.
Siege tanks already do decent damage to armored. This change will not affect immortals, the strongest siege tank counter. This change will not affect archons, another hardcounter to tanks. This will only help in tvp for blink stalker allins, lategame protoss vs mech terran rarely relies on stalkers or collosus for a lategame composition.
EMP is a ghost ability. The ghost is a bio unit built from the barracks. If the solution to mech becomes a ghost buff I will be very disappointed in blizzards lack of conviction to make mech work.
It's nice to finally have a word on tvp though, the matchup hasn't been talked about publicly in a long time as far as I know other than the fact that it remained around 50%. The MSC change was much needed good to see happen.
why would you be dissappointed? I think when you say "mech" you shouldn't rule out half of your tech tree. Mostly you do, because of upgrades. But you don't want ghosts for their DPS anyway, so I don't see why it is bad to use ghosts in a mech composition?
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To be perfectly honest I don't want too much of a MSC core nerf because then terran will start winning and will get nerfed, I would rather have protoss be too strong than terran be too weak, if that makes sense.
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On January 07 2014 15:34 cptjibberjabber wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2014 08:43 Soldier92 wrote:
I like the attitude blizzard has coming with these balance changes but the solutions they present to mech are not the right way to go.
Buffing mech air does not make sense as skyterran is already considered one of if not the strongest lategame armies. Each terran starport unit excluding the BC has a number of roles for both harassment as well as benefit to the main army.
Siege tanks already do decent damage to armored. This change will not affect immortals, the strongest siege tank counter. This change will not affect archons, another hardcounter to tanks. This will only help in tvp for blink stalker allins, lategame protoss vs mech terran rarely relies on stalkers or collosus for a lategame composition.
EMP is a ghost ability. The ghost is a bio unit built from the barracks. If the solution to mech becomes a ghost buff I will be very disappointed in blizzards lack of conviction to make mech work.
It's nice to finally have a word on tvp though, the matchup hasn't been talked about publicly in a long time as far as I know other than the fact that it remained around 50%. The MSC change was much needed good to see happen. why would you be dissappointed? I think when you say "mech" you shouldn't rule out half of your tech tree. Mostly you do, because of upgrades. But you don't want ghosts for their DPS anyway, so I don't see why it is bad to use ghosts in a mech composition?
Because mech players would rather spend gas producing mech units than ghosts, I guess..
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On January 07 2014 17:06 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2014 15:34 cptjibberjabber wrote:On January 07 2014 08:43 Soldier92 wrote:
I like the attitude blizzard has coming with these balance changes but the solutions they present to mech are not the right way to go.
Buffing mech air does not make sense as skyterran is already considered one of if not the strongest lategame armies. Each terran starport unit excluding the BC has a number of roles for both harassment as well as benefit to the main army.
Siege tanks already do decent damage to armored. This change will not affect immortals, the strongest siege tank counter. This change will not affect archons, another hardcounter to tanks. This will only help in tvp for blink stalker allins, lategame protoss vs mech terran rarely relies on stalkers or collosus for a lategame composition.
EMP is a ghost ability. The ghost is a bio unit built from the barracks. If the solution to mech becomes a ghost buff I will be very disappointed in blizzards lack of conviction to make mech work.
It's nice to finally have a word on tvp though, the matchup hasn't been talked about publicly in a long time as far as I know other than the fact that it remained around 50%. The MSC change was much needed good to see happen. why would you be dissappointed? I think when you say "mech" you shouldn't rule out half of your tech tree. Mostly you do, because of upgrades. But you don't want ghosts for their DPS anyway, so I don't see why it is bad to use ghosts in a mech composition? Because mech players would rather spend gas producing mech units than ghosts, I guess..
yeah sorry, that's not an argument. Zergs would also rather spend their gas on mutalisks than on banelings...
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On January 07 2014 17:42 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2014 17:06 maartendq wrote:On January 07 2014 15:34 cptjibberjabber wrote:On January 07 2014 08:43 Soldier92 wrote:
I like the attitude blizzard has coming with these balance changes but the solutions they present to mech are not the right way to go.
Buffing mech air does not make sense as skyterran is already considered one of if not the strongest lategame armies. Each terran starport unit excluding the BC has a number of roles for both harassment as well as benefit to the main army.
Siege tanks already do decent damage to armored. This change will not affect immortals, the strongest siege tank counter. This change will not affect archons, another hardcounter to tanks. This will only help in tvp for blink stalker allins, lategame protoss vs mech terran rarely relies on stalkers or collosus for a lategame composition.
EMP is a ghost ability. The ghost is a bio unit built from the barracks. If the solution to mech becomes a ghost buff I will be very disappointed in blizzards lack of conviction to make mech work.
It's nice to finally have a word on tvp though, the matchup hasn't been talked about publicly in a long time as far as I know other than the fact that it remained around 50%. The MSC change was much needed good to see happen. why would you be dissappointed? I think when you say "mech" you shouldn't rule out half of your tech tree. Mostly you do, because of upgrades. But you don't want ghosts for their DPS anyway, so I don't see why it is bad to use ghosts in a mech composition? Because mech players would rather spend gas producing mech units than ghosts, I guess.. yeah sorry, that's not an argument. Zergs would also rather spend their gas on mutalisks than on banelings...
Because it makes it very unreliable and inconsistent to play mech, to depend on one spell to make the difference between good fight and total annihilation, irespective of prior positioning, unit spread, and all the other mech specific micro. With bio or even Protoss, if you fuck up or get FB or you are out of energy or miss or whatever, you can retreat, not with mech.
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On January 07 2014 17:42 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2014 17:06 maartendq wrote:On January 07 2014 15:34 cptjibberjabber wrote:On January 07 2014 08:43 Soldier92 wrote:
I like the attitude blizzard has coming with these balance changes but the solutions they present to mech are not the right way to go.
Buffing mech air does not make sense as skyterran is already considered one of if not the strongest lategame armies. Each terran starport unit excluding the BC has a number of roles for both harassment as well as benefit to the main army.
Siege tanks already do decent damage to armored. This change will not affect immortals, the strongest siege tank counter. This change will not affect archons, another hardcounter to tanks. This will only help in tvp for blink stalker allins, lategame protoss vs mech terran rarely relies on stalkers or collosus for a lategame composition.
EMP is a ghost ability. The ghost is a bio unit built from the barracks. If the solution to mech becomes a ghost buff I will be very disappointed in blizzards lack of conviction to make mech work.
It's nice to finally have a word on tvp though, the matchup hasn't been talked about publicly in a long time as far as I know other than the fact that it remained around 50%. The MSC change was much needed good to see happen. why would you be dissappointed? I think when you say "mech" you shouldn't rule out half of your tech tree. Mostly you do, because of upgrades. But you don't want ghosts for their DPS anyway, so I don't see why it is bad to use ghosts in a mech composition? Because mech players would rather spend gas producing mech units than ghosts, I guess.. yeah sorry, that's not an argument. Zergs would also rather spend their gas on mutalisks than on banelings...
Of course it is. If mech needs so badly Ghost or Raven support, then something is wrong. The fact you cannot spend your gas however you want is not a problem per se, but the style should not have to rely on massing spellcaster energy to vaguely work.
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On January 07 2014 17:42 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2014 17:06 maartendq wrote:On January 07 2014 15:34 cptjibberjabber wrote:On January 07 2014 08:43 Soldier92 wrote:
I like the attitude blizzard has coming with these balance changes but the solutions they present to mech are not the right way to go.
Buffing mech air does not make sense as skyterran is already considered one of if not the strongest lategame armies. Each terran starport unit excluding the BC has a number of roles for both harassment as well as benefit to the main army.
Siege tanks already do decent damage to armored. This change will not affect immortals, the strongest siege tank counter. This change will not affect archons, another hardcounter to tanks. This will only help in tvp for blink stalker allins, lategame protoss vs mech terran rarely relies on stalkers or collosus for a lategame composition.
EMP is a ghost ability. The ghost is a bio unit built from the barracks. If the solution to mech becomes a ghost buff I will be very disappointed in blizzards lack of conviction to make mech work.
It's nice to finally have a word on tvp though, the matchup hasn't been talked about publicly in a long time as far as I know other than the fact that it remained around 50%. The MSC change was much needed good to see happen. why would you be dissappointed? I think when you say "mech" you shouldn't rule out half of your tech tree. Mostly you do, because of upgrades. But you don't want ghosts for their DPS anyway, so I don't see why it is bad to use ghosts in a mech composition? Because mech players would rather spend gas producing mech units than ghosts, I guess.. yeah sorry, that's not an argument. Zergs would also rather spend their gas on mutalisks than on banelings...
Yeah but for a terran there is just not enough gas...
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On January 07 2014 20:29 matthy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2014 17:42 Big J wrote:On January 07 2014 17:06 maartendq wrote:On January 07 2014 15:34 cptjibberjabber wrote:On January 07 2014 08:43 Soldier92 wrote:
I like the attitude blizzard has coming with these balance changes but the solutions they present to mech are not the right way to go.
Buffing mech air does not make sense as skyterran is already considered one of if not the strongest lategame armies. Each terran starport unit excluding the BC has a number of roles for both harassment as well as benefit to the main army.
Siege tanks already do decent damage to armored. This change will not affect immortals, the strongest siege tank counter. This change will not affect archons, another hardcounter to tanks. This will only help in tvp for blink stalker allins, lategame protoss vs mech terran rarely relies on stalkers or collosus for a lategame composition.
EMP is a ghost ability. The ghost is a bio unit built from the barracks. If the solution to mech becomes a ghost buff I will be very disappointed in blizzards lack of conviction to make mech work.
It's nice to finally have a word on tvp though, the matchup hasn't been talked about publicly in a long time as far as I know other than the fact that it remained around 50%. The MSC change was much needed good to see happen. why would you be dissappointed? I think when you say "mech" you shouldn't rule out half of your tech tree. Mostly you do, because of upgrades. But you don't want ghosts for their DPS anyway, so I don't see why it is bad to use ghosts in a mech composition? Because mech players would rather spend gas producing mech units than ghosts, I guess.. yeah sorry, that's not an argument. Zergs would also rather spend their gas on mutalisks than on banelings... Yeah but for a terran there is just not enough gas...
So what is that complaint about Terrans not having a gas intensive unit to dump gas into? Or is this statement completely wrong?
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far from enought, time warp needs a nerf for sure
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On January 07 2014 22:17 TheManInBlack wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2014 20:29 matthy wrote:On January 07 2014 17:42 Big J wrote:On January 07 2014 17:06 maartendq wrote:On January 07 2014 15:34 cptjibberjabber wrote:On January 07 2014 08:43 Soldier92 wrote:
I like the attitude blizzard has coming with these balance changes but the solutions they present to mech are not the right way to go.
Buffing mech air does not make sense as skyterran is already considered one of if not the strongest lategame armies. Each terran starport unit excluding the BC has a number of roles for both harassment as well as benefit to the main army.
Siege tanks already do decent damage to armored. This change will not affect immortals, the strongest siege tank counter. This change will not affect archons, another hardcounter to tanks. This will only help in tvp for blink stalker allins, lategame protoss vs mech terran rarely relies on stalkers or collosus for a lategame composition.
EMP is a ghost ability. The ghost is a bio unit built from the barracks. If the solution to mech becomes a ghost buff I will be very disappointed in blizzards lack of conviction to make mech work.
It's nice to finally have a word on tvp though, the matchup hasn't been talked about publicly in a long time as far as I know other than the fact that it remained around 50%. The MSC change was much needed good to see happen. why would you be dissappointed? I think when you say "mech" you shouldn't rule out half of your tech tree. Mostly you do, because of upgrades. But you don't want ghosts for their DPS anyway, so I don't see why it is bad to use ghosts in a mech composition? Because mech players would rather spend gas producing mech units than ghosts, I guess.. yeah sorry, that's not an argument. Zergs would also rather spend their gas on mutalisks than on banelings... Yeah but for a terran there is just not enough gas... So what is that complaint about Terrans not having a gas intensive unit to dump gas into? Or is this statement completely wrong?
No i mean the oposite: when going mech you need a lot of gas compared to bio, going goths is then to expensive gas wise (also it fragile in PvT mech because of feedback but that is not the argument here). it was opposed to the muta bling comment where a zerg can mine enough gas to make it work. would mutas be 100/200 then it would also be impossible
Also mech requires a turtle style where you cannot expand that agressively as zerg with ling bling muta so you mostly have 2 to 4 gasses less to mine from
p.s. if you dont get my comment i understand my english grammar + spelling is horrible :p
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On January 07 2014 20:03 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2014 17:42 Big J wrote:On January 07 2014 17:06 maartendq wrote:On January 07 2014 15:34 cptjibberjabber wrote:On January 07 2014 08:43 Soldier92 wrote:
I like the attitude blizzard has coming with these balance changes but the solutions they present to mech are not the right way to go.
Buffing mech air does not make sense as skyterran is already considered one of if not the strongest lategame armies. Each terran starport unit excluding the BC has a number of roles for both harassment as well as benefit to the main army.
Siege tanks already do decent damage to armored. This change will not affect immortals, the strongest siege tank counter. This change will not affect archons, another hardcounter to tanks. This will only help in tvp for blink stalker allins, lategame protoss vs mech terran rarely relies on stalkers or collosus for a lategame composition.
EMP is a ghost ability. The ghost is a bio unit built from the barracks. If the solution to mech becomes a ghost buff I will be very disappointed in blizzards lack of conviction to make mech work.
It's nice to finally have a word on tvp though, the matchup hasn't been talked about publicly in a long time as far as I know other than the fact that it remained around 50%. The MSC change was much needed good to see happen. why would you be dissappointed? I think when you say "mech" you shouldn't rule out half of your tech tree. Mostly you do, because of upgrades. But you don't want ghosts for their DPS anyway, so I don't see why it is bad to use ghosts in a mech composition? Because mech players would rather spend gas producing mech units than ghosts, I guess.. yeah sorry, that's not an argument. Zergs would also rather spend their gas on mutalisks than on banelings... Of course it is. If mech needs so badly Ghost or Raven support, then something is wrong. The fact you cannot spend your gas however you want is not a problem per se, but the style should not have to rely on massing spellcaster energy to vaguely work.
Why is there something wrong if you have to build certain units? You have to build certain units in all RTS games in all situations, so why is it wrong if those certain units are Ravens and Ghosts?
On January 07 2014 20:29 matthy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2014 17:42 Big J wrote:On January 07 2014 17:06 maartendq wrote:On January 07 2014 15:34 cptjibberjabber wrote:On January 07 2014 08:43 Soldier92 wrote:
I like the attitude blizzard has coming with these balance changes but the solutions they present to mech are not the right way to go.
Buffing mech air does not make sense as skyterran is already considered one of if not the strongest lategame armies. Each terran starport unit excluding the BC has a number of roles for both harassment as well as benefit to the main army.
Siege tanks already do decent damage to armored. This change will not affect immortals, the strongest siege tank counter. This change will not affect archons, another hardcounter to tanks. This will only help in tvp for blink stalker allins, lategame protoss vs mech terran rarely relies on stalkers or collosus for a lategame composition.
EMP is a ghost ability. The ghost is a bio unit built from the barracks. If the solution to mech becomes a ghost buff I will be very disappointed in blizzards lack of conviction to make mech work.
It's nice to finally have a word on tvp though, the matchup hasn't been talked about publicly in a long time as far as I know other than the fact that it remained around 50%. The MSC change was much needed good to see happen. why would you be dissappointed? I think when you say "mech" you shouldn't rule out half of your tech tree. Mostly you do, because of upgrades. But you don't want ghosts for their DPS anyway, so I don't see why it is bad to use ghosts in a mech composition? Because mech players would rather spend gas producing mech units than ghosts, I guess.. yeah sorry, that's not an argument. Zergs would also rather spend their gas on mutalisks than on banelings... Yeah but for a terran there is just not enough gas...
That's the whole point of buffing them... that you need less resources to achieve the same.
On January 07 2014 19:52 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2014 17:42 Big J wrote:On January 07 2014 17:06 maartendq wrote:On January 07 2014 15:34 cptjibberjabber wrote:On January 07 2014 08:43 Soldier92 wrote:
I like the attitude blizzard has coming with these balance changes but the solutions they present to mech are not the right way to go.
Buffing mech air does not make sense as skyterran is already considered one of if not the strongest lategame armies. Each terran starport unit excluding the BC has a number of roles for both harassment as well as benefit to the main army.
Siege tanks already do decent damage to armored. This change will not affect immortals, the strongest siege tank counter. This change will not affect archons, another hardcounter to tanks. This will only help in tvp for blink stalker allins, lategame protoss vs mech terran rarely relies on stalkers or collosus for a lategame composition.
EMP is a ghost ability. The ghost is a bio unit built from the barracks. If the solution to mech becomes a ghost buff I will be very disappointed in blizzards lack of conviction to make mech work.
It's nice to finally have a word on tvp though, the matchup hasn't been talked about publicly in a long time as far as I know other than the fact that it remained around 50%. The MSC change was much needed good to see happen. why would you be dissappointed? I think when you say "mech" you shouldn't rule out half of your tech tree. Mostly you do, because of upgrades. But you don't want ghosts for their DPS anyway, so I don't see why it is bad to use ghosts in a mech composition? Because mech players would rather spend gas producing mech units than ghosts, I guess.. yeah sorry, that's not an argument. Zergs would also rather spend their gas on mutalisks than on banelings... Because it makes it very unreliable and inconsistent to play mech, to depend on one spell to make the difference between good fight and total annihilation, irespective of prior positioning, unit spread, and all the other mech specific micro. With bio or even Protoss, if you fuck up or get FB or you are out of energy or miss or whatever, you can retreat, not with mech.
that's not what he was saying. He said he does not want to build ghosts because it overlaps with building mech units. Not that ghosts may not be the right guys for the job.
Your argument makes sort of sense, his doesn't.
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On January 07 2014 23:52 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2014 20:03 TheDwf wrote:On January 07 2014 17:42 Big J wrote:On January 07 2014 17:06 maartendq wrote:On January 07 2014 15:34 cptjibberjabber wrote:On January 07 2014 08:43 Soldier92 wrote:
I like the attitude blizzard has coming with these balance changes but the solutions they present to mech are not the right way to go.
Buffing mech air does not make sense as skyterran is already considered one of if not the strongest lategame armies. Each terran starport unit excluding the BC has a number of roles for both harassment as well as benefit to the main army.
Siege tanks already do decent damage to armored. This change will not affect immortals, the strongest siege tank counter. This change will not affect archons, another hardcounter to tanks. This will only help in tvp for blink stalker allins, lategame protoss vs mech terran rarely relies on stalkers or collosus for a lategame composition.
EMP is a ghost ability. The ghost is a bio unit built from the barracks. If the solution to mech becomes a ghost buff I will be very disappointed in blizzards lack of conviction to make mech work.
It's nice to finally have a word on tvp though, the matchup hasn't been talked about publicly in a long time as far as I know other than the fact that it remained around 50%. The MSC change was much needed good to see happen. why would you be dissappointed? I think when you say "mech" you shouldn't rule out half of your tech tree. Mostly you do, because of upgrades. But you don't want ghosts for their DPS anyway, so I don't see why it is bad to use ghosts in a mech composition? Because mech players would rather spend gas producing mech units than ghosts, I guess.. yeah sorry, that's not an argument. Zergs would also rather spend their gas on mutalisks than on banelings... Of course it is. If mech needs so badly Ghost or Raven support, then something is wrong. The fact you cannot spend your gas however you want is not a problem per se, but the style should not have to rely on massing spellcaster energy to vaguely work. Why is there something wrong if you have to build certain units? You have to build certain units in all RTS games in all situations, so why is it wrong if those certain units are Ravens and Ghosts?
Yeah I kind of agree with you on this Big J. This shouldn't be a problem if we're forced to build some ghosts to complete our army.
What is trolling us more is Blizzard barging in proudly with a "GONNA BUFF MECH BY (ONLY) MAKING THE GHOST STRONGER, GUYS".
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On January 07 2014 23:55 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2014 23:52 Big J wrote:On January 07 2014 20:03 TheDwf wrote:On January 07 2014 17:42 Big J wrote:On January 07 2014 17:06 maartendq wrote:On January 07 2014 15:34 cptjibberjabber wrote:On January 07 2014 08:43 Soldier92 wrote:
I like the attitude blizzard has coming with these balance changes but the solutions they present to mech are not the right way to go.
Buffing mech air does not make sense as skyterran is already considered one of if not the strongest lategame armies. Each terran starport unit excluding the BC has a number of roles for both harassment as well as benefit to the main army.
Siege tanks already do decent damage to armored. This change will not affect immortals, the strongest siege tank counter. This change will not affect archons, another hardcounter to tanks. This will only help in tvp for blink stalker allins, lategame protoss vs mech terran rarely relies on stalkers or collosus for a lategame composition.
EMP is a ghost ability. The ghost is a bio unit built from the barracks. If the solution to mech becomes a ghost buff I will be very disappointed in blizzards lack of conviction to make mech work.
It's nice to finally have a word on tvp though, the matchup hasn't been talked about publicly in a long time as far as I know other than the fact that it remained around 50%. The MSC change was much needed good to see happen. why would you be dissappointed? I think when you say "mech" you shouldn't rule out half of your tech tree. Mostly you do, because of upgrades. But you don't want ghosts for their DPS anyway, so I don't see why it is bad to use ghosts in a mech composition? Because mech players would rather spend gas producing mech units than ghosts, I guess.. yeah sorry, that's not an argument. Zergs would also rather spend their gas on mutalisks than on banelings... Of course it is. If mech needs so badly Ghost or Raven support, then something is wrong. The fact you cannot spend your gas however you want is not a problem per se, but the style should not have to rely on massing spellcaster energy to vaguely work. Why is there something wrong if you have to build certain units? You have to build certain units in all RTS games in all situations, so why is it wrong if those certain units are Ravens and Ghosts? Yeah I kind of agree with you on this Big J. This shouldn't be a problem if we're forced to build some ghosts to complete our army. What is trolling us more is Blizzard barging in proudly with a "GONNA BUFF MECH BY (ONLY) MAKING THE GHOST STRONGER, GUYS".
no they didn't, they said allows mech easier access to emp is one possible solution (one that i don't think will happen though)
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On January 07 2014 23:52 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2014 20:03 TheDwf wrote:On January 07 2014 17:42 Big J wrote:On January 07 2014 17:06 maartendq wrote:On January 07 2014 15:34 cptjibberjabber wrote:On January 07 2014 08:43 Soldier92 wrote:
I like the attitude blizzard has coming with these balance changes but the solutions they present to mech are not the right way to go.
Buffing mech air does not make sense as skyterran is already considered one of if not the strongest lategame armies. Each terran starport unit excluding the BC has a number of roles for both harassment as well as benefit to the main army.
Siege tanks already do decent damage to armored. This change will not affect immortals, the strongest siege tank counter. This change will not affect archons, another hardcounter to tanks. This will only help in tvp for blink stalker allins, lategame protoss vs mech terran rarely relies on stalkers or collosus for a lategame composition.
EMP is a ghost ability. The ghost is a bio unit built from the barracks. If the solution to mech becomes a ghost buff I will be very disappointed in blizzards lack of conviction to make mech work.
It's nice to finally have a word on tvp though, the matchup hasn't been talked about publicly in a long time as far as I know other than the fact that it remained around 50%. The MSC change was much needed good to see happen. why would you be dissappointed? I think when you say "mech" you shouldn't rule out half of your tech tree. Mostly you do, because of upgrades. But you don't want ghosts for their DPS anyway, so I don't see why it is bad to use ghosts in a mech composition? Because mech players would rather spend gas producing mech units than ghosts, I guess.. yeah sorry, that's not an argument. Zergs would also rather spend their gas on mutalisks than on banelings... Of course it is. If mech needs so badly Ghost or Raven support, then something is wrong. The fact you cannot spend your gas however you want is not a problem per se, but the style should not have to rely on massing spellcaster energy to vaguely work. Why is there something wrong if you have to build certain units? You have to build certain units in all RTS games in all situations, so why is it wrong if those certain units are Ravens and Ghosts? Show nested quote +On January 07 2014 20:29 matthy wrote:On January 07 2014 17:42 Big J wrote:On January 07 2014 17:06 maartendq wrote:On January 07 2014 15:34 cptjibberjabber wrote:On January 07 2014 08:43 Soldier92 wrote:
I like the attitude blizzard has coming with these balance changes but the solutions they present to mech are not the right way to go.
Buffing mech air does not make sense as skyterran is already considered one of if not the strongest lategame armies. Each terran starport unit excluding the BC has a number of roles for both harassment as well as benefit to the main army.
Siege tanks already do decent damage to armored. This change will not affect immortals, the strongest siege tank counter. This change will not affect archons, another hardcounter to tanks. This will only help in tvp for blink stalker allins, lategame protoss vs mech terran rarely relies on stalkers or collosus for a lategame composition.
EMP is a ghost ability. The ghost is a bio unit built from the barracks. If the solution to mech becomes a ghost buff I will be very disappointed in blizzards lack of conviction to make mech work.
It's nice to finally have a word on tvp though, the matchup hasn't been talked about publicly in a long time as far as I know other than the fact that it remained around 50%. The MSC change was much needed good to see happen. why would you be dissappointed? I think when you say "mech" you shouldn't rule out half of your tech tree. Mostly you do, because of upgrades. But you don't want ghosts for their DPS anyway, so I don't see why it is bad to use ghosts in a mech composition? Because mech players would rather spend gas producing mech units than ghosts, I guess.. yeah sorry, that's not an argument. Zergs would also rather spend their gas on mutalisks than on banelings... Yeah but for a terran there is just not enough gas... That's the whole point of buffing them... that you need less resources to achieve the same.
Because then you end up having those "Ghosts/Hellbats/Tanks/Thors/Vikings/Ravens" armies which make no sense (since the support spellcasters have actually the most important role, a bit like the WoL infest; this also means you cannot be active before the said army is complete) instead of having a simple core like Hellbats/Tanks/Vikings in TvT that you can then support with only a few of those units (like one Raven to have 2 pdds, not 15 full energy because otherwise you cannot advance/fight, etc.).
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On January 08 2014 00:00 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2014 23:55 ZenithM wrote:On January 07 2014 23:52 Big J wrote:On January 07 2014 20:03 TheDwf wrote:On January 07 2014 17:42 Big J wrote:On January 07 2014 17:06 maartendq wrote:On January 07 2014 15:34 cptjibberjabber wrote:On January 07 2014 08:43 Soldier92 wrote:
I like the attitude blizzard has coming with these balance changes but the solutions they present to mech are not the right way to go.
Buffing mech air does not make sense as skyterran is already considered one of if not the strongest lategame armies. Each terran starport unit excluding the BC has a number of roles for both harassment as well as benefit to the main army.
Siege tanks already do decent damage to armored. This change will not affect immortals, the strongest siege tank counter. This change will not affect archons, another hardcounter to tanks. This will only help in tvp for blink stalker allins, lategame protoss vs mech terran rarely relies on stalkers or collosus for a lategame composition.
EMP is a ghost ability. The ghost is a bio unit built from the barracks. If the solution to mech becomes a ghost buff I will be very disappointed in blizzards lack of conviction to make mech work.
It's nice to finally have a word on tvp though, the matchup hasn't been talked about publicly in a long time as far as I know other than the fact that it remained around 50%. The MSC change was much needed good to see happen. why would you be dissappointed? I think when you say "mech" you shouldn't rule out half of your tech tree. Mostly you do, because of upgrades. But you don't want ghosts for their DPS anyway, so I don't see why it is bad to use ghosts in a mech composition? Because mech players would rather spend gas producing mech units than ghosts, I guess.. yeah sorry, that's not an argument. Zergs would also rather spend their gas on mutalisks than on banelings... Of course it is. If mech needs so badly Ghost or Raven support, then something is wrong. The fact you cannot spend your gas however you want is not a problem per se, but the style should not have to rely on massing spellcaster energy to vaguely work. Why is there something wrong if you have to build certain units? You have to build certain units in all RTS games in all situations, so why is it wrong if those certain units are Ravens and Ghosts? Yeah I kind of agree with you on this Big J. This shouldn't be a problem if we're forced to build some ghosts to complete our army. What is trolling us more is Blizzard barging in proudly with a "GONNA BUFF MECH BY (ONLY) MAKING THE GHOST STRONGER, GUYS". no they didn't, they said allows mech easier access to emp is one possible solution (one that i don't think will happen though)
I know, I know. But still, it's understandable that it wasn't what people wanted to hear. I mean, you could make mech stronger by buffing the reaper and allowing Terran to do threatening reaper openings into mech, that would sound silly as well.
I guess that if a potential buff also buffs strongly bio, it shouldn't be called a mech buff, but plainly a general Terran buff (and I'll be sure to continue spamming marine and marauders anyway :D)
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I think the point is that blizzard is trying to get to a point where Ghosts are accessible enough that every Terran says "if course you build ghosts, they are so good." Personally, I would like to see that, because they are fun units to watch.
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EPT
