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Canada13431 Posts
On January 06 2014 06:00 Faust852 wrote:
I don't think PO is fine, it allow the protoss to play way too safe and greedy so he ends up teching much faster. The protoss should have more than one gate before teching to HT imo.
You cant tech to ht with storm with one gate. Not possible. I have a hard time holding the 10 min push while getting hts and +2 armor with anything less than 7 gates ready for when the push comes. I still have a hard time hitting the macro benchmarks and chronos for a proper ht and observer build with armor ups vs a well timed medivac pressure. Let alone a 5 rax before 3rd OC version.
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On January 06 2014 06:15 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2014 06:00 Faust852 wrote:
I don't think PO is fine, it allow the protoss to play way too safe and greedy so he ends up teching much faster. The protoss should have more than one gate before teching to HT imo. You cant tech to ht with storm with one gate. Not possible. I have a hard time holding the 10 min push while getting hts and +2 armor with anything less than 7 gates ready for when the push comes. I still have a hard time hitting the macro benchmarks and chronos for a proper ht and observer build with armor ups vs a well timed medivac pressure. Let alone a 5 rax before 3rd OC version.
You probably don't do it well because you should be able to hold to 10 min 4 medivacs push with like 3/4 gates and some HTs.
Man, 7 gates are close to be allin at this point.
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tanks could use a larger aoe radius that only damages shields. Like increase the radius by 1 but any damage dealt in that radius is dealt only to shields.
Would help mech tremendously vs a balled up toss and wouldn't hurt tvz
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A mech buff aside from anything that effects emp might be too strong vs zerg. I'd like to see Immortals hardened shield tweaked so the unit has less total shields but more HP instead. My only concern would be making Immortals weak to units other than siege tanks as well.
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On January 06 2014 06:15 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2014 06:00 Faust852 wrote:
I don't think PO is fine, it allow the protoss to play way too safe and greedy so he ends up teching much faster. The protoss should have more than one gate before teching to HT imo. You cant tech to ht with storm with one gate. Not possible. I have a hard time holding the 10 min push while getting hts and +2 armor with anything less than 7 gates ready for when the push comes. I still have a hard time hitting the macro benchmarks and chronos for a proper ht and observer build with armor ups vs a well timed medivac pressure. Let alone a 5 rax before 3rd OC version.
but youre not pro so what you have trouble with doesnt matter.
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I'm not sure what changes they can do to terran mech, but anything about buffing mech will be interesting and welcomed by me :D. Nerf on overcharge I agree with, and indifferent about the roach burrow speed...we'll just have to wait and see.
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Straight-up buff to tank damage, maybe something shields-related too, and perhaps a longer siege time as compensation? Even with the latter it would still be a pretty big deal of a buff. If tanks could stand on their own a bit better it might encourage more active mech-play as opposed to the turtle-to-ravens style we saw in the Reality game.
It's a tough one to call. I like the MSC nerf and Roach buff though (even if it is yet another speed buff...)
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Give tanks a tactical EMP shell upgrade to make them deplete shields on hit.
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I love the energy upgrade idea:
It would make ghost switches easier and therefore give them a better utility in zvt with tanks vs vipers aswell as prepare against ht switches in tvp.
Overall I think, we would see more ghosts earlygame - ghost rush to snipe marines and scvs in tvt, ghost timing pushes with emp against gasless mass queens to get rid of creep and 2 base ghost against fast hts.
This thing would bring more TLO like WoL games. :D
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4713 Posts
On January 06 2014 23:12 Prugelhugel wrote:
I love the energy upgrade idea:
It would make ghost switches easier and therefore give them a better utility in zvt with tanks vs vipers aswell as prepare against ht switches in tvp.
Overall I think, we would see more ghosts earlygame - ghost rush to snipe marines and scvs in tvt, ghost timing pushes with emp against gasless mass queens to get rid of creep and 2 base ghost against fast hts.
This thing would bring more TLO like WoL games. :D
I think you missed that patch where Snipe damage went from 45 to 25+25 vs Psionic, kiss your ghost rushes in TvT goodbye.
You won't get ghosts vs mass queen either, its still a big early game investment off 200/100 and they need either protection to work, or cloak, another big investment.
But apart from that you will maybe see them more often in the late game, which is a hell of a lot better then nearly not seeing them now a days.
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Slightly influenced by this thread... give Tanks a little energy, like 25 maybe. Starting energy would be 0.
In siegemode make them use all available energy in 1 shot as damage to shields (ignoring hardened shield?) to the main target only. So they would do upto 25 more damage in their first salvo to shielded targets (no influence to TvZ or TvT). During a battle, it may accumulate energy, but it would use it up again, when available, adding just 1 dmg as soon as 1 energy is gained.
In rare occasions they could be feedbacked by HTs (e.g. from highground), so it has a little downside.
You could also make it have 50 energy and do 1 dmg per 2 energy or so. Or have it use just parts of the energy per shot, but then keep in mind that it mustn't be too vulnerable to feedbacks (like the Thor was in WoL).
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On January 06 2014 23:48 BurningRanger wrote:Slightly influenced by this thread... give Tanks a little energy, like 25 maybe. Starting energy would be 0. In siegemode make them use all available energy in 1 shot as damage to shields (ignoring hardened shield?) to the main target only. So they would do upto 25 more damage in their first salvo to shielded targets (no influence to TvZ or TvT). During a battle, it may accumulate energy, but it would use it up again, when available, adding just 1 dmg as soon as 1 energy is gained. In rare occasions they could be feedbacked by HTs (e.g. from highground), so it has a little downside. You could also make it have 50 energy and do 1 dmg per 2 energy or so. Or have it use just parts of the energy per shot, but then keep in mind that it mustn't be too vulnerable to feedbacks (like the Thor was in WoL).
This looks like really clunky design, adding an Energy bar for no real purpose...
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On January 06 2014 23:50 SC2Toastie wrote:
This looks like really clunky design, adding an Energy bar for no real purpose...
The purpose is to do more damage, but not constantly, including it with a little downside instead of just plain buffing it. Usually it shouldn't have a problem with feedback though, because the energy would be depleted by shooting before any HT can get in range (except in the scenario where the HT is on a highground and the tank doesn't have vision up there).
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It's like scratching the right side of your head with your left arm - sure it gets the job done but it's very awkard.
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That's what I ment 
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Cant wait do do stupid and ineffective roach burrow allins again :D
On a more serious note, I'm not sure if this will change that much. The update is rarely researched in pro games because allins that rely on burrowmicro to work are easily countered by common builds.
God that reminds me of 350mm strike cannons. I was so sad when they took it out (even if it was basically useless).
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On January 06 2014 06:32 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2014 06:15 ZeromuS wrote:On January 06 2014 06:00 Faust852 wrote:
I don't think PO is fine, it allow the protoss to play way too safe and greedy so he ends up teching much faster. The protoss should have more than one gate before teching to HT imo. You cant tech to ht with storm with one gate. Not possible. I have a hard time holding the 10 min push while getting hts and +2 armor with anything less than 7 gates ready for when the push comes. I still have a hard time hitting the macro benchmarks and chronos for a proper ht and observer build with armor ups vs a well timed medivac pressure. Let alone a 5 rax before 3rd OC version. You probably don't do it well because you should be able to hold to 10 min 4 medivacs push with like 3/4 gates and some HTs. Man, 7 gates are close to be allin at this point.
7 gates into 10:30/11:00 third is pretty standard for HT builds if Terran doesn't 3CC, because zealots are cheap and high templar have a high warp-in cooldown so 7 gates allows sustained production while banking enough to take a third.
I think there are some builds which do tech to storm off of one gate (Dear's storm drop build iirc) but they delay robo and forge compared to standard HT builds and only really work against standard Terran builds (i.e. Reaper FE into more barracks or CC first).
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All this talk about tanks and extra damage to shields looks incredibly like sloppy patchworking to me without addressing the real problem: the immortal. In my opinion, they should just give the immortal a cooldown on their hardened shields. This will make them worse against tanks in a fight, but still allow the protoss to retreat with them without suffering too much damage, should he be caught off guard.
I would suggest the same for raven abilities, that way it takes significantly more ravens to cloud the skies with pdd and seeker missiles. And a super deathball of raven + vikings won't be able to deplete all their energy into pure death at once.
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Northern Ireland461 Posts
What about halving the immortal's hardened shield to keep it as a passive, and adding on the other half as an ability?
This way there is choice involved in whether or not you use the ability depending on the type of fight etc, do I use it to attack into an army or do I use it to run away for an army is a much more interesting choice than a bland passive.
Just an idea, I'm sure the numbers can be tweaked and people better than me at game design can figure out a better solution.
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EPT
