|
On December 22 2013 12:44 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2013 12:40 ssxsilver wrote:On December 22 2013 12:09 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 12:06 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 12:00 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:58 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:
[quote]
Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea. And why do foreign toss/zerg have consistently more success than foreign terrans, as known since fucking forever? Are you actually saying that pro level Toss need skilless low risk high reward openings as a crutch to beat pro level Terrans? If yes, that's a horrible state of affairs and it needs to change immediately. If no... what are you saying? You could probably start by reading the nested quotes in my previous posts instead of interjecting mid-conversation and quoting me out of context. On December 22 2013 11:58 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:
[quote]
Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea which, again, simply revolves back around to the futility of this discussion. sure it does, why do foreign Terrans not have any success at all? Because they aren't as good as Korean Terrans. Did you really need an answer? Why do Protoss and Zerg have foreign players that are just as good as the best Koreans, while Terrans have had no foreign players that is consistently among the best? What could possibly be the reasons behind that? Because Foreign Terrans, are not nearly as good as Korean Terrans. The conclusion you're trying to circle around to is futile, because the existence of Korean Terrans means touching that balance could blow up Korea. If you're going to parade this argument, then wouldn't the old WOL "Terran is only winning because all the best players in Korea pick it" be valid as well? You could try to say the same thing about Zerg in the BL-infestor era, but that would be wrong too. All the races have had their points of imbalance. The era of super emp and super fast stim was pretty dumb.
Yep that's what I was leading into. That's not to say I think this Protoss era is as bad as any of the T/Z ones, but with pros of every race venting frustration in the vP matchup, I think it's silly to dismiss it as poor mindset.
|
My hypothesis is David Kim wants to make the game as crappy as possible so players are forced to LOTV. It might sound like a joke, but what (non-korean) Terran would want to stay in this game in its current state. It's funny how they never fixed the BL/Infestor in WoL and just waited for HOTS. I rest my case.
My thought is, much like the Mothership/Vortex, Blizzard will do away with this unit and add new defensive units in its place - which might actually cost resources instead of ENERGY. Two years from now everyone will be joking about how bad the State of Game was...similar to BL/Infestor, Queendralisk etc
.
|
On December 22 2013 13:58 SirPinky wrote:
My hypothesis is David Kim wants to make the game as crappy as possible so players are forced to LOTV. It might sound like a joke, but what (non-korean) Terran would want to stay in this game in its current state. It's funny how they never fixed the BL/Infestor in WoL and just waited for HOTS. I rest my case.
My thought is, much like the Mothership/Vortex, Blizzard will do away with this unit and add new defensive units in its place - which might actually cost resources instead of ENERGY. Two years from now everyone will be joking about how bad the State of Game was...similar to BL/Infestor, Queendralisk etc
.
Sick. Since HotS is so amazing for protoss and we make up the majority of players, I guess I/we'll be sticking to HotS. I'd love to see only Terrans playing LOTV. I'd give it 1 week, tops, before everyone starts crying about how imbalanced t vs t is.
|
On December 22 2013 12:05 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2013 12:00 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:58 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:35 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:33 rd wrote:
[quote]
What argument do they have in their head then? Touch Terran balance in any way and Korea will go back to 2010 status. The vast majority of Terran whose global opinion in which you seem to imply you represent (which you dont) aren't affected by this balance. That Protoss is overpowered and we want to nerf everything from colossi to templar and want to stim a-move into everything. Go look at TheDwf's posts about Protoss and he'll give actual games that link to the complaints that a lot of Terrans are talking about. I don't claim to speak for the majority, but it's pretty stupid for Protoss posters to put their hands on their ear and yell everything is okay when stats say it's not. That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have. Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea. And why do foreign toss/zerg have consistently more success than foreign terrans, as known since fucking forever? Are you actually saying that pro level Toss need skilless low risk high reward openings as a crutch to beat pro level Terrans? If yes, that's a horrible state of affairs and it needs to change immediately. If no... what are you saying? You could probably start by reading the nested quotes in my previous posts instead of interjecting mid-conversation and quoting me out of context. On December 22 2013 11:58 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:35 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:33 rd wrote:
[quote]
What argument do they have in their head then? Touch Terran balance in any way and Korea will go back to 2010 status. The vast majority of Terran whose global opinion in which you seem to imply you represent (which you dont) aren't affected by this balance. That Protoss is overpowered and we want to nerf everything from colossi to templar and want to stim a-move into everything. Go look at TheDwf's posts about Protoss and he'll give actual games that link to the complaints that a lot of Terrans are talking about. I don't claim to speak for the majority, but it's pretty stupid for Protoss posters to put their hands on their ear and yell everything is okay when stats say it's not. That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have. Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea which, again, simply revolves back around to the futility of this discussion. sure it does, why do foreign Terrans not have any success at all? Because they aren't as good as Korean Terrans. Did you really need an answer? the real question is why foreigner can have success with P/Z and not T.
Because Thorzain is mostly retired. And because Lucifron hit VortiX during the height of the patchzerg era in all of his tournaments.
|
On December 22 2013 12:51 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2013 12:47 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2013 12:45 sAsImre wrote:On December 22 2013 12:44 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2013 12:40 ssxsilver wrote:On December 22 2013 12:09 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 12:06 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 12:00 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:58 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:
[quote]
Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea. And why do foreign toss/zerg have consistently more success than foreign terrans, as known since fucking forever? Are you actually saying that pro level Toss need skilless low risk high reward openings as a crutch to beat pro level Terrans? If yes, that's a horrible state of affairs and it needs to change immediately. If no... what are you saying? You could probably start by reading the nested quotes in my previous posts instead of interjecting mid-conversation and quoting me out of context. On December 22 2013 11:58 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:
[quote]
Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea which, again, simply revolves back around to the futility of this discussion. sure it does, why do foreign Terrans not have any success at all? Because they aren't as good as Korean Terrans. Did you really need an answer? Why do Protoss and Zerg have foreign players that are just as good as the best Koreans, while Terrans have had no foreign players that is consistently among the best? What could possibly be the reasons behind that? Because Foreign Terrans, are not nearly as good as Korean Terrans. The conclusion you're trying to circle around to is futile, because the existence of Korean Terrans means touching that balance could blow up Korea. If you're going to parade this argument, then wouldn't the old WOL "Terran is only winning because all the best players in Korea pick it" be valid as well? You could try to say the same thing about Zerg in the BL-infestor era, but that would be wrong too. All the races have had their points of imbalance. ah so you're admitting there is a problem with P or your reasonning is just that poor (cuz P never dominated in WoL XD) The amulet was fucking imbalance as shit. That thing was fucking stupid. Protoss didn't win a lot with it, but it was only a matter if time till they did. Well it was back to the times of 110s stim. Every race had shit imbalanced but P didn't win a lot because they were on the bad side of the balance. (all the shit Terran could pull off pre 10min lol). The moment P appeared the most broken was probably the MC/July final, but that was more a oh shit i didn't see it coming than pure imbalance (just like the Nestea/Losicat final). But yeah so the point of P imbalanced, when they dominate never existed... until hots lol.
Maybe not in PvT, but there were definitely a lot of times pre-Broodfestor when PvZ was as bad or worse than it is now (and worse than PvT is now too).
|
On December 22 2013 14:04 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2013 13:58 SirPinky wrote:
My hypothesis is David Kim wants to make the game as crappy as possible so players are forced to LOTV. It might sound like a joke, but what (non-korean) Terran would want to stay in this game in its current state. It's funny how they never fixed the BL/Infestor in WoL and just waited for HOTS. I rest my case.
My thought is, much like the Mothership/Vortex, Blizzard will do away with this unit and add new defensive units in its place - which might actually cost resources instead of ENERGY. Two years from now everyone will be joking about how bad the State of Game was...similar to BL/Infestor, Queendralisk etc
. Sick. Since HotS is so amazing for protoss and we make up the majority of players, I guess I/we'll be sticking to HotS. I'd love to see only Terrans playing LOTV. I'd give it 1 week, tops, before everyone starts crying about how imbalanced t vs t is.
No, you will all switch to LOTV when you realize you drop 2 leagues b/c your w/l ratio was really dependant on cheesing Terrans with your 1 of 10+ unscoutable/unpunishable openers
|
Over on the right I see that the top 3 players on TLPD are Terran. If Kas wants to quit because he cannot play as well as Taeja MMA or Innovation, that is fine, but do not whine balance. I will miss Kas. He was great Terran player.
|
On December 22 2013 07:59 Aquila- wrote:
I hope Blizzard realizes the issues with the game soon and takes action before every single Terran has quit.
let them, all the suffering they inflicted on the SC2 community after launch makes whatever rage they ever feel, totally worth it
|
|
|
I can't really comment on balance, but what I can say is I have played this game since and it hasn't been in a worse condition then it is now, including BL/Infestor
|
On December 22 2013 14:25 meadbert wrote:
Over on the right I see that the top 3 players on TLPD are Terran. If Kas wants to quit because he cannot play as well as Taeja MMA or Innovation, that is fine, but do not whine balance. I will miss Kas. He was great Terran player.
The day Protoss produces a player who can play non-deathball macro in 3/4 of his games and still win 2-3 premier tournaments per year, you'll have a semblance of a point.
|
On December 22 2013 13:58 SirPinky wrote:
My hypothesis is David Kim wants to make the game as crappy as possible so players are forced to LOTV.
.
interesting thinking.... i've put a great deal of thought into this brilliant insight.
if u check the zapruder film in HD, slow motion you'll see david kim with a C-10 Canister Rifle on the grassy knoll.
you see a C-10 Canister Rifle is able to fire "magic bullets".
I can just see the memo now.
"Hello, Mr. Kim,this is the CEO Mike Morhaime. Please thoroughly fuck up the next few patches of SC2 because we're about to unveil LotV"
Blizzard doesn't sell expansions by intentionally fucking the base game.
They sell expansions with the lure of additional content.
|
On December 22 2013 14:30 magnaflow wrote:
I can't really comment on balance, but what I can say is I have played this game since and it hasn't been in a worse condition then it is now, including BL/Infestor
"I can't really comment on balance, but I'm going to ahead and do it anyways." I'm sorry but if you think this is as bad as Broodlord/Infestor era go watch some end of WoL ZvZ and get your head back on straight.
|
Foreign terran hasn't been viable for a long time now, no surprise that people are frustrated.
Good luck to his future endeavors.
|
Canada16217 Posts
On December 22 2013 14:30 magnaflow wrote:
I can't really comment on balance, but what I can say is I have played this game since and it hasn't been in a worse condition then it is now, including BL/Infestor
you are quite wrong.
|
Maybe just a small ranting, for last several months all I see in his fb fanpage is alot of ranting really.
|
it's not so much david kim and 'balance' the balance is relatively good given the circumstances, it's just poor game and unit design.
|
opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On December 22 2013 14:30 magnaflow wrote:
I can't really comment on balance
should've just stopped here
|
On December 22 2013 07:45 Ourk wrote:
he wont retire hes just mad everyone tweets this kinda crap these days
Indeed. He just complains too much about balance.
|
Protoss is doing very well now, just hang on for the ride...
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
