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On December 22 2013 12:06 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2013 12:00 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:58 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:35 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:33 rd wrote:
[quote]
What argument do they have in their head then? Touch Terran balance in any way and Korea will go back to 2010 status. The vast majority of Terran whose global opinion in which you seem to imply you represent (which you dont) aren't affected by this balance. That Protoss is overpowered and we want to nerf everything from colossi to templar and want to stim a-move into everything. Go look at TheDwf's posts about Protoss and he'll give actual games that link to the complaints that a lot of Terrans are talking about. I don't claim to speak for the majority, but it's pretty stupid for Protoss posters to put their hands on their ear and yell everything is okay when stats say it's not. That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have. Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea. And why do foreign toss/zerg have consistently more success than foreign terrans, as known since fucking forever? Are you actually saying that pro level Toss need skilless low risk high reward openings as a crutch to beat pro level Terrans? If yes, that's a horrible state of affairs and it needs to change immediately. If no... what are you saying? You could probably start by reading the nested quotes in my previous posts instead of interjecting mid-conversation and quoting me out of context. On December 22 2013 11:58 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:35 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:33 rd wrote:
[quote]
What argument do they have in their head then? Touch Terran balance in any way and Korea will go back to 2010 status. The vast majority of Terran whose global opinion in which you seem to imply you represent (which you dont) aren't affected by this balance. That Protoss is overpowered and we want to nerf everything from colossi to templar and want to stim a-move into everything. Go look at TheDwf's posts about Protoss and he'll give actual games that link to the complaints that a lot of Terrans are talking about. I don't claim to speak for the majority, but it's pretty stupid for Protoss posters to put their hands on their ear and yell everything is okay when stats say it's not. That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have. Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea which, again, simply revolves back around to the futility of this discussion. sure it does, why do foreign Terrans not have any success at all? Because they aren't as good as Korean Terrans. Did you really need an answer? Why do Protoss and Zerg have foreign players that are just as good as the best Koreans, while Terrans have had no foreign players that is consistently among the best? What could possibly be the reasons behind that?
Because Foreign Terrans, are not nearly as good as Korean Terrans. The conclusion you're trying to circle around to is futile, because the existence of Korean Terrans means touching that balance could blow up Korea.
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On December 22 2013 12:09 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2013 12:06 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 12:00 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:58 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:35 Chaggi wrote:
[quote]
That Protoss is overpowered and we want to nerf everything from colossi to templar and want to stim a-move into everything. Go look at TheDwf's posts about Protoss and he'll give actual games that link to the complaints that a lot of Terrans are talking about. I don't claim to speak for the majority, but it's pretty stupid for Protoss posters to put their hands on their ear and yell everything is okay when stats say it's not. That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have. Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea. And why do foreign toss/zerg have consistently more success than foreign terrans, as known since fucking forever? Are you actually saying that pro level Toss need skilless low risk high reward openings as a crutch to beat pro level Terrans? If yes, that's a horrible state of affairs and it needs to change immediately. If no... what are you saying? You could probably start by reading the nested quotes in my previous posts instead of interjecting mid-conversation and quoting me out of context. On December 22 2013 11:58 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:35 Chaggi wrote:
[quote]
That Protoss is overpowered and we want to nerf everything from colossi to templar and want to stim a-move into everything. Go look at TheDwf's posts about Protoss and he'll give actual games that link to the complaints that a lot of Terrans are talking about. I don't claim to speak for the majority, but it's pretty stupid for Protoss posters to put their hands on their ear and yell everything is okay when stats say it's not. That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have. Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea which, again, simply revolves back around to the futility of this discussion. sure it does, why do foreign Terrans not have any success at all? Because they aren't as good as Korean Terrans. Did you really need an answer? Why do Protoss and Zerg have foreign players that are just as good as the best Koreans, while Terrans have had no foreign players that is consistently among the best? What could possibly be the reasons behind that? Because Foreign Terrans, are not nearly as good as Korean Terrans. The conclusion you're trying to circle around to is futile, because the existence of Korean Terrans means touching that balance could blow up Korea.
sorry i forgot scarlett/nani's skill was near soulkey/dear's skill.
My bad.
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The problem doesn't lie in balance but in design.
Stop arguing about balance.
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On December 22 2013 12:00 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2013 11:58 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:35 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:33 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:20 Chaggi wrote:
[quote]
no one said that at all but whatever. have an argument in your head with what you think Terrans want What argument do they have in their head then? Touch Terran balance in any way and Korea will go back to 2010 status. The vast majority of Terran whose global opinion in which you seem to imply you represent (which you dont) aren't affected by this balance. That Protoss is overpowered and we want to nerf everything from colossi to templar and want to stim a-move into everything. Go look at TheDwf's posts about Protoss and he'll give actual games that link to the complaints that a lot of Terrans are talking about. I don't claim to speak for the majority, but it's pretty stupid for Protoss posters to put their hands on their ear and yell everything is okay when stats say it's not. That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have. Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea. And why do foreign toss/zerg have consistently more success than foreign terrans, as known since fucking forever? Are you actually saying that pro level Toss need skilless low risk high reward openings as a crutch to beat pro level Terrans? If yes, that's a horrible state of affairs and it needs to change immediately. If no... what are you saying? You could probably start by reading the nested quotes in my previous posts instead of interjecting mid-conversation and quoting me out of context.
I interjected many posts ago but you missed (or ignored) my response then. Every single one of your posts has been making a completely different point and none of them stand up to the slightest bit of scrutiny - first that current balance is somehow the only possible way in all the galaxies we can prevent GomTvT (which is patently absurd, Terrans like the state of TvZ despite 50/50), then that all Terrans care about is results (patently false as the vast majority of Terrans hated the Warhound which would have given them very, very many easy wins), then that Terran foreigners are simply inferior to Zerg and Protoss foreigners. Which is a nice theory, but that's all it is. And in light of GM Protoss/Zerg/Terran rates, it's not even all that nice.
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On December 22 2013 12:09 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2013 12:06 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 12:00 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:58 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:35 Chaggi wrote:
[quote]
That Protoss is overpowered and we want to nerf everything from colossi to templar and want to stim a-move into everything. Go look at TheDwf's posts about Protoss and he'll give actual games that link to the complaints that a lot of Terrans are talking about. I don't claim to speak for the majority, but it's pretty stupid for Protoss posters to put their hands on their ear and yell everything is okay when stats say it's not. That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have. Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea. And why do foreign toss/zerg have consistently more success than foreign terrans, as known since fucking forever? Are you actually saying that pro level Toss need skilless low risk high reward openings as a crutch to beat pro level Terrans? If yes, that's a horrible state of affairs and it needs to change immediately. If no... what are you saying? You could probably start by reading the nested quotes in my previous posts instead of interjecting mid-conversation and quoting me out of context. On December 22 2013 11:58 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:35 Chaggi wrote:
[quote]
That Protoss is overpowered and we want to nerf everything from colossi to templar and want to stim a-move into everything. Go look at TheDwf's posts about Protoss and he'll give actual games that link to the complaints that a lot of Terrans are talking about. I don't claim to speak for the majority, but it's pretty stupid for Protoss posters to put their hands on their ear and yell everything is okay when stats say it's not. That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have. Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea which, again, simply revolves back around to the futility of this discussion. sure it does, why do foreign Terrans not have any success at all? Because they aren't as good as Korean Terrans. Did you really need an answer? Why do Protoss and Zerg have foreign players that are just as good as the best Koreans, while Terrans have had no foreign players that is consistently among the best? What could possibly be the reasons behind that? Because Foreign Terrans, are not nearly as good as Korean Terrans. The conclusion you're trying to circle around to is futile, because the existence of Korean Terrans means touching that balance could blow up Korea.
So essentially what you're saying is that Korean Terrans have some type of innate ability to be better at Terran than foreigners. You're not answering the question. Why are the best Terrans from Korea, and not from outside of Korea when Protoss and Zerg have reps from outside Korea that are just as good as Koreans in Korea.
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On December 22 2013 12:00 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2013 11:58 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:35 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:33 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:20 Chaggi wrote:
[quote]
no one said that at all but whatever. have an argument in your head with what you think Terrans want What argument do they have in their head then? Touch Terran balance in any way and Korea will go back to 2010 status. The vast majority of Terran whose global opinion in which you seem to imply you represent (which you dont) aren't affected by this balance. That Protoss is overpowered and we want to nerf everything from colossi to templar and want to stim a-move into everything. Go look at TheDwf's posts about Protoss and he'll give actual games that link to the complaints that a lot of Terrans are talking about. I don't claim to speak for the majority, but it's pretty stupid for Protoss posters to put their hands on their ear and yell everything is okay when stats say it's not. That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have. Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea. And why do foreign toss/zerg have consistently more success than foreign terrans, as known since fucking forever? Are you actually saying that pro level Toss need skilless low risk high reward openings as a crutch to beat pro level Terrans? If yes, that's a horrible state of affairs and it needs to change immediately. If no... what are you saying? You could probably start by reading the nested quotes in my previous posts instead of interjecting mid-conversation and quoting me out of context. Show nested quote +On December 22 2013 11:58 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:35 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:33 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:20 Chaggi wrote:
[quote]
no one said that at all but whatever. have an argument in your head with what you think Terrans want What argument do they have in their head then? Touch Terran balance in any way and Korea will go back to 2010 status. The vast majority of Terran whose global opinion in which you seem to imply you represent (which you dont) aren't affected by this balance. That Protoss is overpowered and we want to nerf everything from colossi to templar and want to stim a-move into everything. Go look at TheDwf's posts about Protoss and he'll give actual games that link to the complaints that a lot of Terrans are talking about. I don't claim to speak for the majority, but it's pretty stupid for Protoss posters to put their hands on their ear and yell everything is okay when stats say it's not. That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have. Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea which, again, simply revolves back around to the futility of this discussion. sure it does, why do foreign Terrans not have any success at all? Because they aren't as good as Korean Terrans. Did you really need an answer?
god why is everybody playing around the bush. terran in the highest level is more difficult than the other two.
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On December 22 2013 12:16 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2013 12:00 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:58 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:35 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:33 rd wrote:
[quote]
What argument do they have in their head then? Touch Terran balance in any way and Korea will go back to 2010 status. The vast majority of Terran whose global opinion in which you seem to imply you represent (which you dont) aren't affected by this balance. That Protoss is overpowered and we want to nerf everything from colossi to templar and want to stim a-move into everything. Go look at TheDwf's posts about Protoss and he'll give actual games that link to the complaints that a lot of Terrans are talking about. I don't claim to speak for the majority, but it's pretty stupid for Protoss posters to put their hands on their ear and yell everything is okay when stats say it's not. That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have. Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea. And why do foreign toss/zerg have consistently more success than foreign terrans, as known since fucking forever? Are you actually saying that pro level Toss need skilless low risk high reward openings as a crutch to beat pro level Terrans? If yes, that's a horrible state of affairs and it needs to change immediately. If no... what are you saying? You could probably start by reading the nested quotes in my previous posts instead of interjecting mid-conversation and quoting me out of context. On December 22 2013 11:58 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:35 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:33 rd wrote:
[quote]
What argument do they have in their head then? Touch Terran balance in any way and Korea will go back to 2010 status. The vast majority of Terran whose global opinion in which you seem to imply you represent (which you dont) aren't affected by this balance. That Protoss is overpowered and we want to nerf everything from colossi to templar and want to stim a-move into everything. Go look at TheDwf's posts about Protoss and he'll give actual games that link to the complaints that a lot of Terrans are talking about. I don't claim to speak for the majority, but it's pretty stupid for Protoss posters to put their hands on their ear and yell everything is okay when stats say it's not. That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have. Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea which, again, simply revolves back around to the futility of this discussion. sure it does, why do foreign Terrans not have any success at all? Because they aren't as good as Korean Terrans. Did you really need an answer? god why is everybody playing around the bush. terran in the highest level is more difficult than the other two.
be patient with those little protoss. it's funny to witness them trying to dodge that fact.
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On December 22 2013 12:17 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2013 12:16 goody153 wrote:On December 22 2013 12:00 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:58 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:35 Chaggi wrote:
[quote]
That Protoss is overpowered and we want to nerf everything from colossi to templar and want to stim a-move into everything. Go look at TheDwf's posts about Protoss and he'll give actual games that link to the complaints that a lot of Terrans are talking about. I don't claim to speak for the majority, but it's pretty stupid for Protoss posters to put their hands on their ear and yell everything is okay when stats say it's not. That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have. Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea. And why do foreign toss/zerg have consistently more success than foreign terrans, as known since fucking forever? Are you actually saying that pro level Toss need skilless low risk high reward openings as a crutch to beat pro level Terrans? If yes, that's a horrible state of affairs and it needs to change immediately. If no... what are you saying? You could probably start by reading the nested quotes in my previous posts instead of interjecting mid-conversation and quoting me out of context. On December 22 2013 11:58 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:35 Chaggi wrote:
[quote]
That Protoss is overpowered and we want to nerf everything from colossi to templar and want to stim a-move into everything. Go look at TheDwf's posts about Protoss and he'll give actual games that link to the complaints that a lot of Terrans are talking about. I don't claim to speak for the majority, but it's pretty stupid for Protoss posters to put their hands on their ear and yell everything is okay when stats say it's not. That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have. Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea which, again, simply revolves back around to the futility of this discussion. sure it does, why do foreign Terrans not have any success at all? Because they aren't as good as Korean Terrans. Did you really need an answer? god why is everybody playing around the bush. terran in the highest level is more difficult than the other two. be patient with those little protoss. it's funny to witness them trying to dodge that fact.
I love this argument: my race is imbalanced for me. I know other people can win, but I can't so the game must be flawed.
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On December 22 2013 12:20 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2013 12:17 sAsImre wrote:On December 22 2013 12:16 goody153 wrote:On December 22 2013 12:00 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:58 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:
[quote]
That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have.
Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea. And why do foreign toss/zerg have consistently more success than foreign terrans, as known since fucking forever? Are you actually saying that pro level Toss need skilless low risk high reward openings as a crutch to beat pro level Terrans? If yes, that's a horrible state of affairs and it needs to change immediately. If no... what are you saying? You could probably start by reading the nested quotes in my previous posts instead of interjecting mid-conversation and quoting me out of context. On December 22 2013 11:58 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:
[quote]
That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have.
Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea which, again, simply revolves back around to the futility of this discussion. sure it does, why do foreign Terrans not have any success at all? Because they aren't as good as Korean Terrans. Did you really need an answer? god why is everybody playing around the bush. terran in the highest level is more difficult than the other two. be patient with those little protoss. it's funny to witness them trying to dodge that fact. I love this argument: my race is imbalanced for me. I know other people can win, but I can't so the game must be flawed.
Don't try to reason with Terrans, according to them the game is always harder since they apparently have to have more skill than the other two races in order to win anything.
Also it's quite sad how anti-Protoss this community is. People were whining about toss even when they weren't winning many tournaments earlier this year. Apparently Protoss isn't supposed to win anything and even when they don't, there's always something to complain about them.
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I think Protoss isn't really unbalanced but the engagements are just a lot easier for the protoss player than the terran player and this results in non korean terran players just never being relevant. The solution isn't to nerf protoss or buff terran but to make protoss harder to play in some aspects and less forgiving.
It's easy to see the difference between Life's ling useage and that by your average EU GM zerg. There's a huge difference between Innovation's marine splits and those done by your standard EU GM terran. It's hard to see any difference at all between sOs' or Dear's zealot control and (insert one of the many EU Protoss' name here)', because there is just so little micro potential with zealots and archons. Storm is also very easy to use, yet very strong. Units like phoenixes allow players to show great control but sadly they're not even needed in TvP, instead they have buffed the oracle, an unit that is easier to use and was already more powerful than a phoenix. I don't know why charge for example has an auto-cast option. If you had to press atleast a hotkey to activate charge it wouldn't change the balance at all but make Protoss a bit harder to play. Blizzard should make a few changes like this.
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On December 22 2013 12:20 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2013 12:17 sAsImre wrote:On December 22 2013 12:16 goody153 wrote:On December 22 2013 12:00 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:58 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:
[quote]
That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have.
Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea. And why do foreign toss/zerg have consistently more success than foreign terrans, as known since fucking forever? Are you actually saying that pro level Toss need skilless low risk high reward openings as a crutch to beat pro level Terrans? If yes, that's a horrible state of affairs and it needs to change immediately. If no... what are you saying? You could probably start by reading the nested quotes in my previous posts instead of interjecting mid-conversation and quoting me out of context. On December 22 2013 11:58 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:
[quote]
That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have.
Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea which, again, simply revolves back around to the futility of this discussion. sure it does, why do foreign Terrans not have any success at all? Because they aren't as good as Korean Terrans. Did you really need an answer? god why is everybody playing around the bush. terran in the highest level is more difficult than the other two. be patient with those little protoss. it's funny to witness them trying to dodge that fact. I love this argument: my race is imbalanced for me. I know other people can win, but I can't so the game must be flawed.
protoss player are so skilled that they take half the gm spots. oh wait.
Our savior Xenocider will crush korean and win blizzcon next year tho.
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On December 22 2013 12:09 rd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2013 12:06 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 12:00 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:58 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:35 Chaggi wrote:
[quote]
That Protoss is overpowered and we want to nerf everything from colossi to templar and want to stim a-move into everything. Go look at TheDwf's posts about Protoss and he'll give actual games that link to the complaints that a lot of Terrans are talking about. I don't claim to speak for the majority, but it's pretty stupid for Protoss posters to put their hands on their ear and yell everything is okay when stats say it's not. That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have. Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea. And why do foreign toss/zerg have consistently more success than foreign terrans, as known since fucking forever? Are you actually saying that pro level Toss need skilless low risk high reward openings as a crutch to beat pro level Terrans? If yes, that's a horrible state of affairs and it needs to change immediately. If no... what are you saying? You could probably start by reading the nested quotes in my previous posts instead of interjecting mid-conversation and quoting me out of context. On December 22 2013 11:58 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:35 Chaggi wrote:
[quote]
That Protoss is overpowered and we want to nerf everything from colossi to templar and want to stim a-move into everything. Go look at TheDwf's posts about Protoss and he'll give actual games that link to the complaints that a lot of Terrans are talking about. I don't claim to speak for the majority, but it's pretty stupid for Protoss posters to put their hands on their ear and yell everything is okay when stats say it's not. That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have. Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea which, again, simply revolves back around to the futility of this discussion. sure it does, why do foreign Terrans not have any success at all? Because they aren't as good as Korean Terrans. Did you really need an answer? Why do Protoss and Zerg have foreign players that are just as good as the best Koreans, while Terrans have had no foreign players that is consistently among the best? What could possibly be the reasons behind that? Because Foreign Terrans, are not nearly as good as Korean Terrans. The conclusion you're trying to circle around to is futile, because the existence of Korean Terrans means touching that balance could blow up Korea.
If you're going to parade this argument, then wouldn't the old WOL "Terran is only winning because all the best players in Korea pick it" be valid as well?
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On December 22 2013 12:40 ssxsilver wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2013 12:09 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 12:06 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 12:00 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:58 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:
[quote]
That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have.
Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea. And why do foreign toss/zerg have consistently more success than foreign terrans, as known since fucking forever? Are you actually saying that pro level Toss need skilless low risk high reward openings as a crutch to beat pro level Terrans? If yes, that's a horrible state of affairs and it needs to change immediately. If no... what are you saying? You could probably start by reading the nested quotes in my previous posts instead of interjecting mid-conversation and quoting me out of context. On December 22 2013 11:58 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:
[quote]
That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have.
Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea which, again, simply revolves back around to the futility of this discussion. sure it does, why do foreign Terrans not have any success at all? Because they aren't as good as Korean Terrans. Did you really need an answer? Why do Protoss and Zerg have foreign players that are just as good as the best Koreans, while Terrans have had no foreign players that is consistently among the best? What could possibly be the reasons behind that? Because Foreign Terrans, are not nearly as good as Korean Terrans. The conclusion you're trying to circle around to is futile, because the existence of Korean Terrans means touching that balance could blow up Korea. If you're going to parade this argument, then wouldn't the old WOL "Terran is only winning because all the best players in Korea pick it" be valid as well?
yep.
But T was badly imbalanced for a long time in wol so it just backfires pretty quickly :p
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On December 22 2013 12:40 ssxsilver wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2013 12:09 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 12:06 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 12:00 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:58 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:
[quote]
That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have.
Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea. And why do foreign toss/zerg have consistently more success than foreign terrans, as known since fucking forever? Are you actually saying that pro level Toss need skilless low risk high reward openings as a crutch to beat pro level Terrans? If yes, that's a horrible state of affairs and it needs to change immediately. If no... what are you saying? You could probably start by reading the nested quotes in my previous posts instead of interjecting mid-conversation and quoting me out of context. On December 22 2013 11:58 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:
[quote]
That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have.
Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea which, again, simply revolves back around to the futility of this discussion. sure it does, why do foreign Terrans not have any success at all? Because they aren't as good as Korean Terrans. Did you really need an answer? Why do Protoss and Zerg have foreign players that are just as good as the best Koreans, while Terrans have had no foreign players that is consistently among the best? What could possibly be the reasons behind that? Because Foreign Terrans, are not nearly as good as Korean Terrans. The conclusion you're trying to circle around to is futile, because the existence of Korean Terrans means touching that balance could blow up Korea. If you're going to parade this argument, then wouldn't the old WOL "Terran is only winning because all the best players in Korea pick it" be valid as well?
You could try to say the same thing about Zerg in the BL-infestor era, but that would be wrong too. All the races have had their points of imbalance. The era of super emp and super fast stim was pretty dumb.
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On December 22 2013 12:26 spalding wrote:
I think Protoss isn't really unbalanced but the engagements are just a lot easier for the protoss player than the terran player and this results in non korean terran players just never being relevant. The solution isn't to nerf protoss or buff terran but to make protoss harder to play in some aspects and less forgiving.
It's easy to see the difference between Life's ling useage and that by your average EU GM zerg. There's a huge difference between Innovation's marine splits and those done by your standard EU GM terran. It's hard to see any difference at all between sOs' or Dear's zealot control and (insert one of the many EU Protoss' name here)', because there is just so little micro potential with zealots and archons. Storm is also very easy to use, yet very strong. Units like phoenixes allow players to show great control but sadly they're not even needed in TvP, instead they have buffed the oracle, an unit that is easier to use and was already more powerful than a phoenix. I don't know why charge for example has an auto-cast option. If you had to press atleast a hotkey to activate charge it wouldn't change the balance at all but make Protoss a bit harder to play. Blizzard should make a few changes like this.
I agree with this.
They did that to charge to make the game easier for casuals. Since for example a group of zealot cannot deal any damage to a stutter stepping mmm ball without charge.
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On December 22 2013 12:44 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2013 12:40 ssxsilver wrote:On December 22 2013 12:09 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 12:06 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 12:00 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:58 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:
[quote]
Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea. And why do foreign toss/zerg have consistently more success than foreign terrans, as known since fucking forever? Are you actually saying that pro level Toss need skilless low risk high reward openings as a crutch to beat pro level Terrans? If yes, that's a horrible state of affairs and it needs to change immediately. If no... what are you saying? You could probably start by reading the nested quotes in my previous posts instead of interjecting mid-conversation and quoting me out of context. On December 22 2013 11:58 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:
[quote]
Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea which, again, simply revolves back around to the futility of this discussion. sure it does, why do foreign Terrans not have any success at all? Because they aren't as good as Korean Terrans. Did you really need an answer? Why do Protoss and Zerg have foreign players that are just as good as the best Koreans, while Terrans have had no foreign players that is consistently among the best? What could possibly be the reasons behind that? Because Foreign Terrans, are not nearly as good as Korean Terrans. The conclusion you're trying to circle around to is futile, because the existence of Korean Terrans means touching that balance could blow up Korea. If you're going to parade this argument, then wouldn't the old WOL "Terran is only winning because all the best players in Korea pick it" be valid as well? You could try to say the same thing about Zerg in the BL-infestor era, but that would be wrong too. All the races have had their points of imbalance.
ah so you're admitting there is a problem with P or your reasonning is just that poor (cuz P never dominated in WoL XD)
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On December 22 2013 12:45 sAsImre wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2013 12:44 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2013 12:40 ssxsilver wrote:On December 22 2013 12:09 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 12:06 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 12:00 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:58 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:
[quote]
Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea. And why do foreign toss/zerg have consistently more success than foreign terrans, as known since fucking forever? Are you actually saying that pro level Toss need skilless low risk high reward openings as a crutch to beat pro level Terrans? If yes, that's a horrible state of affairs and it needs to change immediately. If no... what are you saying? You could probably start by reading the nested quotes in my previous posts instead of interjecting mid-conversation and quoting me out of context. On December 22 2013 11:58 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:
[quote]
Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea which, again, simply revolves back around to the futility of this discussion. sure it does, why do foreign Terrans not have any success at all? Because they aren't as good as Korean Terrans. Did you really need an answer? Why do Protoss and Zerg have foreign players that are just as good as the best Koreans, while Terrans have had no foreign players that is consistently among the best? What could possibly be the reasons behind that? Because Foreign Terrans, are not nearly as good as Korean Terrans. The conclusion you're trying to circle around to is futile, because the existence of Korean Terrans means touching that balance could blow up Korea. If you're going to parade this argument, then wouldn't the old WOL "Terran is only winning because all the best players in Korea pick it" be valid as well? You could try to say the same thing about Zerg in the BL-infestor era, but that would be wrong too. All the races have had their points of imbalance. ah so you're admitting there is a problem with P or your reasonning is just that poor (cuz P never dominated in WoL XD)
The amulet was fucking imbalance as shit. That thing was fucking stupid. Protoss didn't win a lot with it, but it was only a matter if time till they did.
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On December 22 2013 12:12 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2013 12:09 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 12:06 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 12:00 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:58 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:
[quote]
That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have.
Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea. And why do foreign toss/zerg have consistently more success than foreign terrans, as known since fucking forever? Are you actually saying that pro level Toss need skilless low risk high reward openings as a crutch to beat pro level Terrans? If yes, that's a horrible state of affairs and it needs to change immediately. If no... what are you saying? You could probably start by reading the nested quotes in my previous posts instead of interjecting mid-conversation and quoting me out of context. On December 22 2013 11:58 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:
[quote]
That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have.
Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea which, again, simply revolves back around to the futility of this discussion. sure it does, why do foreign Terrans not have any success at all? Because they aren't as good as Korean Terrans. Did you really need an answer? Why do Protoss and Zerg have foreign players that are just as good as the best Koreans, while Terrans have had no foreign players that is consistently among the best? What could possibly be the reasons behind that? Because Foreign Terrans, are not nearly as good as Korean Terrans. The conclusion you're trying to circle around to is futile, because the existence of Korean Terrans means touching that balance could blow up Korea. So essentially what you're saying is that Korean Terrans have some type of innate ability to be better at Terran than foreigners. You're not answering the question. Why are the best Terrans from Korea, and not from outside of Korea when Protoss and Zerg have reps from outside Korea that are just as good as Koreans in Korea.
They practice more, are on teams with some of the best players in the world to practice with, and have much better infrastructure to facilitate their practice. They are absurdly good, it's not for a random reason. There's no point in answering the question when I can simply interject that foreign Terrans will always have the opportunity to raise their bar to Korean level. The game isn't what is stopping them.
On December 22 2013 12:16 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2013 12:00 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:58 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:35 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:33 rd wrote:
[quote]
What argument do they have in their head then? Touch Terran balance in any way and Korea will go back to 2010 status. The vast majority of Terran whose global opinion in which you seem to imply you represent (which you dont) aren't affected by this balance. That Protoss is overpowered and we want to nerf everything from colossi to templar and want to stim a-move into everything. Go look at TheDwf's posts about Protoss and he'll give actual games that link to the complaints that a lot of Terrans are talking about. I don't claim to speak for the majority, but it's pretty stupid for Protoss posters to put their hands on their ear and yell everything is okay when stats say it's not. That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have. Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea. And why do foreign toss/zerg have consistently more success than foreign terrans, as known since fucking forever? Are you actually saying that pro level Toss need skilless low risk high reward openings as a crutch to beat pro level Terrans? If yes, that's a horrible state of affairs and it needs to change immediately. If no... what are you saying? You could probably start by reading the nested quotes in my previous posts instead of interjecting mid-conversation and quoting me out of context. On December 22 2013 11:58 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:35 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:33 rd wrote:
[quote]
What argument do they have in their head then? Touch Terran balance in any way and Korea will go back to 2010 status. The vast majority of Terran whose global opinion in which you seem to imply you represent (which you dont) aren't affected by this balance. That Protoss is overpowered and we want to nerf everything from colossi to templar and want to stim a-move into everything. Go look at TheDwf's posts about Protoss and he'll give actual games that link to the complaints that a lot of Terrans are talking about. I don't claim to speak for the majority, but it's pretty stupid for Protoss posters to put their hands on their ear and yell everything is okay when stats say it's not. That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have. Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea which, again, simply revolves back around to the futility of this discussion. sure it does, why do foreign Terrans not have any success at all? Because they aren't as good as Korean Terrans. Did you really need an answer? god why is everybody playing around the bush. terran in the highest level is more difficult than the other two.
Because it's a bush. They are harder at the higher level, but they have a much higher skill cap. It still makes it very difficult to touch the other races without addressing that.
On December 22 2013 12:40 ssxsilver wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2013 12:09 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 12:06 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 12:00 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:58 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:
[quote]
That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have.
Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea. And why do foreign toss/zerg have consistently more success than foreign terrans, as known since fucking forever? Are you actually saying that pro level Toss need skilless low risk high reward openings as a crutch to beat pro level Terrans? If yes, that's a horrible state of affairs and it needs to change immediately. If no... what are you saying? You could probably start by reading the nested quotes in my previous posts instead of interjecting mid-conversation and quoting me out of context. On December 22 2013 11:58 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:45 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:43 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:38 rd wrote:
[quote]
That is a very common opinion among outspoken Terran posters. The state of the game isn't perfect, but to the opposite effect, it's not so bad that it's worth throwing a career away and quitting over. Bringing the discussion back to Kas, there are many things that prevented him from achieving the success he wanted that does not include the state of balance. The existence of Korea makes this a really hard discussion to have.
Very true. Korean Terrans are different from Terrans for a reason. We may never know why exactly, or what really prompted him to quit. But if he's mentioning David Kim, it's no secret what's been happening the last few months. If it's right, or not right that he's blaming DK, that's something that'll time will tell. Theres nothing to tell. This is the same story since 2011, it really hasn't changed all that much. Kas from then until now, has remained a top foreigner and only a top foreigner, which compared to Korea isn't enough. Korea has always had Terrans winning with fairly good consistency. Theres nothing to read into. I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans. Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea which, again, simply revolves back around to the futility of this discussion. sure it does, why do foreign Terrans not have any success at all? Because they aren't as good as Korean Terrans. Did you really need an answer? Why do Protoss and Zerg have foreign players that are just as good as the best Koreans, while Terrans have had no foreign players that is consistently among the best? What could possibly be the reasons behind that? Because Foreign Terrans, are not nearly as good as Korean Terrans. The conclusion you're trying to circle around to is futile, because the existence of Korean Terrans means touching that balance could blow up Korea. If you're going to parade this argument, then wouldn't the old WOL "Terran is only winning because all the best players in Korea pick it" be valid as well?
I wouldn't word it quite like that. Terran has a higher skill cap than the other races. Theres no objective way to try and evaluate skill without injecting some sort of bias. But the best Terran players are definitely some of THE best players in the game. I'm just hesitant to say the best Zergs and Protoss aren't capable of playing Terran at the same level in a hypothetical world where they magically get 3 years of Terran practice.
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On December 22 2013 12:47 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2013 12:45 sAsImre wrote:On December 22 2013 12:44 Plansix wrote:On December 22 2013 12:40 ssxsilver wrote:On December 22 2013 12:09 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 12:06 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 12:00 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:58 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:
[quote]
I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans.
Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea. And why do foreign toss/zerg have consistently more success than foreign terrans, as known since fucking forever? Are you actually saying that pro level Toss need skilless low risk high reward openings as a crutch to beat pro level Terrans? If yes, that's a horrible state of affairs and it needs to change immediately. If no... what are you saying? You could probably start by reading the nested quotes in my previous posts instead of interjecting mid-conversation and quoting me out of context. On December 22 2013 11:58 Chaggi wrote:On December 22 2013 11:53 rd wrote:On December 22 2013 11:48 Chaggi wrote:
[quote]
I think there's something to read into when we can name Naniwa and Scarlett as some of the best players in the world (without the foreigner tag), and not have any Terran be mentioned to be anywhere near that level. You have Plansix who has a hard-on for Xeno, and his one win in KOREA that included virtually no Koreans.
Not really, it's been known since fucking forever that foreign toss/zerg have consistently had more success than foreign Terrans, and that STILL doesn't change the state of balance in Korea which, again, simply revolves back around to the futility of this discussion. sure it does, why do foreign Terrans not have any success at all? Because they aren't as good as Korean Terrans. Did you really need an answer? Why do Protoss and Zerg have foreign players that are just as good as the best Koreans, while Terrans have had no foreign players that is consistently among the best? What could possibly be the reasons behind that? Because Foreign Terrans, are not nearly as good as Korean Terrans. The conclusion you're trying to circle around to is futile, because the existence of Korean Terrans means touching that balance could blow up Korea. If you're going to parade this argument, then wouldn't the old WOL "Terran is only winning because all the best players in Korea pick it" be valid as well? You could try to say the same thing about Zerg in the BL-infestor era, but that would be wrong too. All the races have had their points of imbalance. ah so you're admitting there is a problem with P or your reasonning is just that poor (cuz P never dominated in WoL XD) The amulet was fucking imbalance as shit. That thing was fucking stupid. Protoss didn't win a lot with it, but it was only a matter if time till they did.
Well it was back to the times of 110s stim. Every race had shit imbalanced but P didn't win a lot because they were on the bad side of the balance. (all the shit Terran could pull off pre 10min lol). The moment P appeared the most broken was probably the MC/July final, but that was more a oh shit i didn't see it coming than pure imbalance (just like the Nestea/Losicat final). But yeah so the point of P imbalanced, when they dominate never existed... until hots lol.
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On December 22 2013 12:11 Xiphos wrote:
The problem doesn't lie in balance but in design.
Stop arguing about balance.
Yeah... My thoughts exactly.
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EPT
