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Now please get him to stream a bit like Scarlett and Jaedong :D:D:D
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On December 20 2013 07:08 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2013 07:00 hipo wrote:On December 20 2013 06:37 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 20 2013 06:23 Zealously wrote:On December 20 2013 06:06 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 20 2013 05:47 Noocta wrote:On December 20 2013 04:23 EatThePath wrote:On December 20 2013 04:21 DiMano wrote:On December 20 2013 04:18 Bagration wrote:On December 20 2013 04:09 WolfintheSheep wrote:
[quote]
Taeja is a 2-time Code S quarter finalist (losing to the eventual champ both times) and a quarter finalist at WCS Season 2.
If you think Taeja has "suffered", you must have a low opinion of most Koreans in the GSL.
Semi-finalist. He made the Ro4 twice, which is very impressive. Still, while I do believe that Liquid has really helped Taeja career-wise, I don't think Taeja will ever win a premier tournament in Korea, which is a huge shame. One of the effects of joining a foreign team is an emphasis on foreign events, and also means that talent effectively leaves Korea. This could be good and bad, since previously Korea was oversaturated with talent and now the talent is more evenly spread across regions. The shame is that people think that a foreign event win = GSL win which is very frustrating. I'm pretty sure almost nobody thinks this. Nobody does, but who does well in GSL beyond the winner is irrelevant now. Yeah, Innovation vs. Soulkey, Rain vs. Maru in WCS Korea, who cares about those non-winners right? Why does Soulkey's consistency matter at all if the only thing that matters is the #1 spot? Give me a break. Special cases where even the runner-ups went on to win something else. Could you, honestly, name all the semifinalists this year without bringing up Liquipedia, including the ones that didn't have remarkable success outside WCS KR? He's saying that "GSL semifinalist" means less now than it used to, which is true. At least, that's how I'm interpreting it. Well seeing as I only really watch Korea, I might be the wrong person to ask.  I haven't missed a single Code S/WCS KR game all year. The level of competition is just too high to pass up. Why would being a GSL semifinalist be less meaningful now that there are only three per year? I'm not saying you're wrong, it just seems counter-intuitive. edit: that's not true. I didn't watch Roro vs. Symbol out of spite.  Yea... naming all GSL and WCS semi finalist of the year is easy. None of them are actually irrevelent, even if some of them are well know for the wrong reason (hi Roro :D). Most of them are still considered as some of the best players in the world: TaeJa, Soulkey, Bogus, sOs, Maru, Rain, Bomber, Dear... the only exception are Curious, Roro, Symbol and maybe soO. Edit: On December 20 2013 06:47 Zealously wrote:
It's not about it necessarily being less meaningful (though it is, slightly, since a number of previous top contenders left the region in 2013), it's about it receiving less attention. "GSL semifinalist" just doesn't mean as much now as it would have 18 months ago. It doesn't matter if it's logical or not, that's how it is. The Season finals are mostly to blame for this, I feel. It's true, and by removing season finales, WCS 2014 shall fix this! I would actually disagree about Symbol, recent results notwithstanding. His run in season 2 was so impressive, relying on none of the WOL zerg trickery, but powerful Roach/Baneling timings and Nydus worms and strong aggressive play. I think Symbol's definitely proven that he has the potential to stick around with meaningful results.
I do agree that Symbol did very well in S2 and that he was one of the best Zerg in the world back then (I really like him since I saw him live at Ironsquid S1 finale), but currently, he isn't considered as one of the best player in the world.
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On December 20 2013 07:23 hipo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2013 07:08 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 20 2013 07:00 hipo wrote:On December 20 2013 06:37 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 20 2013 06:23 Zealously wrote:On December 20 2013 06:06 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 20 2013 05:47 Noocta wrote:On December 20 2013 04:23 EatThePath wrote:On December 20 2013 04:21 DiMano wrote:On December 20 2013 04:18 Bagration wrote:
[quote]
Semi-finalist. He made the Ro4 twice, which is very impressive.
Still, while I do believe that Liquid has really helped Taeja career-wise, I don't think Taeja will ever win a premier tournament in Korea, which is a huge shame. One of the effects of joining a foreign team is an emphasis on foreign events, and also means that talent effectively leaves Korea. This could be good and bad, since previously Korea was oversaturated with talent and now the talent is more evenly spread across regions.
The shame is that people think that a foreign event win = GSL win which is very frustrating. I'm pretty sure almost nobody thinks this. Nobody does, but who does well in GSL beyond the winner is irrelevant now. Yeah, Innovation vs. Soulkey, Rain vs. Maru in WCS Korea, who cares about those non-winners right? Why does Soulkey's consistency matter at all if the only thing that matters is the #1 spot? Give me a break. Special cases where even the runner-ups went on to win something else. Could you, honestly, name all the semifinalists this year without bringing up Liquipedia, including the ones that didn't have remarkable success outside WCS KR? He's saying that "GSL semifinalist" means less now than it used to, which is true. At least, that's how I'm interpreting it. Well seeing as I only really watch Korea, I might be the wrong person to ask. I haven't missed a single Code S/WCS KR game all year. The level of competition is just too high to pass up. Why would being a GSL semifinalist be less meaningful now that there are only three per year? I'm not saying you're wrong, it just seems counter-intuitive. edit: that's not true. I didn't watch Roro vs. Symbol out of spite. Yea... naming all GSL and WCS semi finalist of the year is easy. None of them are actually irrevelent, even if some of them are well know for the wrong reason (hi Roro :D). Most of them are still considered as some of the best players in the world: TaeJa, Soulkey, Bogus, sOs, Maru, Rain, Bomber, Dear... the only exception are Curious, Roro, Symbol and maybe soO. Edit: On December 20 2013 06:47 Zealously wrote:
It's not about it necessarily being less meaningful (though it is, slightly, since a number of previous top contenders left the region in 2013), it's about it receiving less attention. "GSL semifinalist" just doesn't mean as much now as it would have 18 months ago. It doesn't matter if it's logical or not, that's how it is. The Season finals are mostly to blame for this, I feel. It's true, and by removing season finales, WCS 2014 shall fix this! I would actually disagree about Symbol, recent results notwithstanding. His run in season 2 was so impressive, relying on none of the WOL zerg trickery, but powerful Roach/Baneling timings and Nydus worms and strong aggressive play. I think Symbol's definitely proven that he has the potential to stick around with meaningful results. I do agree that Symbol did very well in S2 and that he was one of the best Zerg in the world back then (I really like him since I saw him live at Ironsquid S1 finale), but currently, he isn't considered as one of the best player in the world.
You're right, I got carried away.
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Mouz finally gets a Korean. And a great Korean at that!
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Canada16217 Posts
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On December 20 2013 06:47 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2013 06:37 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 20 2013 06:23 Zealously wrote:On December 20 2013 06:06 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 20 2013 05:47 Noocta wrote:On December 20 2013 04:23 EatThePath wrote:On December 20 2013 04:21 DiMano wrote:On December 20 2013 04:18 Bagration wrote:On December 20 2013 04:09 WolfintheSheep wrote:On December 20 2013 04:00 DiMano wrote:
[quote]
TaeJa won nothing in Korea as Jaedong did. The foreign events where you always start facing good player from Ro8 does not impress me at all sorry. It is just a good show for people who know nothing about BW leagues and what it take to be a champion and a ton of games with limited amount of good players. Only MC who was on foreign team made to the finals of GSL and 0 players won it but the main thing in my message is another. Taeja is a 2-time Code S quarter finalist (losing to the eventual champ both times) and a quarter finalist at WCS Season 2. If you think Taeja has "suffered", you must have a low opinion of most Koreans in the GSL. Semi-finalist. He made the Ro4 twice, which is very impressive. Still, while I do believe that Liquid has really helped Taeja career-wise, I don't think Taeja will ever win a premier tournament in Korea, which is a huge shame. One of the effects of joining a foreign team is an emphasis on foreign events, and also means that talent effectively leaves Korea. This could be good and bad, since previously Korea was oversaturated with talent and now the talent is more evenly spread across regions. The shame is that people think that a foreign event win = GSL win which is very frustrating. I'm pretty sure almost nobody thinks this. Nobody does, but who does well in GSL beyond the winner is irrelevant now. Yeah, Innovation vs. Soulkey, Rain vs. Maru in WCS Korea, who cares about those non-winners right? Why does Soulkey's consistency matter at all if the only thing that matters is the #1 spot? Give me a break. Special cases where even the runner-ups went on to win something else. Could you, honestly, name all the semifinalists this year without bringing up Liquipedia, including the ones that didn't have remarkable success outside WCS KR? He's saying that "GSL semifinalist" means less now than it used to, which is true. At least, that's how I'm interpreting it. Well seeing as I only really watch Korea, I might be the wrong person to ask. I haven't missed a single Code S/WCS KR game all year. The level of competition is just too high to pass up. Why would being a GSL semifinalist be less meaningful now that there are only three per year? I'm not saying you're wrong, it just seems counter-intuitive. It's not about it necessarily being less meaningful (though it is, slightly, since a number of previous top contenders left the region in 2013), it's about it receiving less attention. "GSL semifinalist" just doesn't mean as much now as it would have 18 months ago. It doesn't matter if it's logical or not, that's how it is. The Season finals are mostly to blame for this, I feel.
Let's not kid ourselves...It barely meant anything before. People might remember Leenock and Innovation because those were big upsets to fan favourites, and they'll probably remember MKP for always being second place. Does anyone really remember InCa, Rainbow, TOP or HyuN?
Hell, a lot of GSL Champions are forgotten.
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On December 20 2013 10:22 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2013 06:47 Zealously wrote:On December 20 2013 06:37 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 20 2013 06:23 Zealously wrote:On December 20 2013 06:06 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 20 2013 05:47 Noocta wrote:On December 20 2013 04:23 EatThePath wrote:On December 20 2013 04:21 DiMano wrote:On December 20 2013 04:18 Bagration wrote:On December 20 2013 04:09 WolfintheSheep wrote:
[quote]
Taeja is a 2-time Code S quarter finalist (losing to the eventual champ both times) and a quarter finalist at WCS Season 2.
If you think Taeja has "suffered", you must have a low opinion of most Koreans in the GSL.
Semi-finalist. He made the Ro4 twice, which is very impressive. Still, while I do believe that Liquid has really helped Taeja career-wise, I don't think Taeja will ever win a premier tournament in Korea, which is a huge shame. One of the effects of joining a foreign team is an emphasis on foreign events, and also means that talent effectively leaves Korea. This could be good and bad, since previously Korea was oversaturated with talent and now the talent is more evenly spread across regions. The shame is that people think that a foreign event win = GSL win which is very frustrating. I'm pretty sure almost nobody thinks this. Nobody does, but who does well in GSL beyond the winner is irrelevant now. Yeah, Innovation vs. Soulkey, Rain vs. Maru in WCS Korea, who cares about those non-winners right? Why does Soulkey's consistency matter at all if the only thing that matters is the #1 spot? Give me a break. Special cases where even the runner-ups went on to win something else. Could you, honestly, name all the semifinalists this year without bringing up Liquipedia, including the ones that didn't have remarkable success outside WCS KR? He's saying that "GSL semifinalist" means less now than it used to, which is true. At least, that's how I'm interpreting it. Well seeing as I only really watch Korea, I might be the wrong person to ask. I haven't missed a single Code S/WCS KR game all year. The level of competition is just too high to pass up. Why would being a GSL semifinalist be less meaningful now that there are only three per year? I'm not saying you're wrong, it just seems counter-intuitive. It's not about it necessarily being less meaningful (though it is, slightly, since a number of previous top contenders left the region in 2013), it's about it receiving less attention. "GSL semifinalist" just doesn't mean as much now as it would have 18 months ago. It doesn't matter if it's logical or not, that's how it is. The Season finals are mostly to blame for this, I feel. Let's not kid ourselves...It barely meant anything before. People might remember Leenock and Innovation because those were big upsets to fan favourites, and they'll probably remember MKP for always being second place. Does anyone really remember InCa, Rainbow, TOP or HyuN? Hell, a lot of GSL Champions are forgotten.
I think it's natural for the game's earlier champions to not get the same kind of recognition. It's one thing to win a GSL when the game is brand new and still being figured out, and another to win it when you're going up against macro beasts like Innovation and DRG, when the average GSLer has been playing the game for 3 years. Flukes are less and less probable. Foreigners can't win major tournaments outside of Korea, never mind get into the semifinals of the GSL like Jinro did, and with good reason.
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On December 20 2013 10:42 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2013 10:22 WolfintheSheep wrote:On December 20 2013 06:47 Zealously wrote:On December 20 2013 06:37 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 20 2013 06:23 Zealously wrote:On December 20 2013 06:06 pure.Wasted wrote:On December 20 2013 05:47 Noocta wrote:On December 20 2013 04:23 EatThePath wrote:On December 20 2013 04:21 DiMano wrote:On December 20 2013 04:18 Bagration wrote:
[quote]
Semi-finalist. He made the Ro4 twice, which is very impressive.
Still, while I do believe that Liquid has really helped Taeja career-wise, I don't think Taeja will ever win a premier tournament in Korea, which is a huge shame. One of the effects of joining a foreign team is an emphasis on foreign events, and also means that talent effectively leaves Korea. This could be good and bad, since previously Korea was oversaturated with talent and now the talent is more evenly spread across regions.
The shame is that people think that a foreign event win = GSL win which is very frustrating. I'm pretty sure almost nobody thinks this. Nobody does, but who does well in GSL beyond the winner is irrelevant now. Yeah, Innovation vs. Soulkey, Rain vs. Maru in WCS Korea, who cares about those non-winners right? Why does Soulkey's consistency matter at all if the only thing that matters is the #1 spot? Give me a break. Special cases where even the runner-ups went on to win something else. Could you, honestly, name all the semifinalists this year without bringing up Liquipedia, including the ones that didn't have remarkable success outside WCS KR? He's saying that "GSL semifinalist" means less now than it used to, which is true. At least, that's how I'm interpreting it. Well seeing as I only really watch Korea, I might be the wrong person to ask. I haven't missed a single Code S/WCS KR game all year. The level of competition is just too high to pass up. Why would being a GSL semifinalist be less meaningful now that there are only three per year? I'm not saying you're wrong, it just seems counter-intuitive. It's not about it necessarily being less meaningful (though it is, slightly, since a number of previous top contenders left the region in 2013), it's about it receiving less attention. "GSL semifinalist" just doesn't mean as much now as it would have 18 months ago. It doesn't matter if it's logical or not, that's how it is. The Season finals are mostly to blame for this, I feel. Let's not kid ourselves...It barely meant anything before. People might remember Leenock and Innovation because those were big upsets to fan favourites, and they'll probably remember MKP for always being second place. Does anyone really remember InCa, Rainbow, TOP or HyuN? Hell, a lot of GSL Champions are forgotten. I think it's natural for the game's earlier champions to not get the same kind of recognition. It's one thing to win a GSL when the game is brand new and still being figured out, and another to win it when you're going up against macro beasts like Innovation and DRG, when the average GSLer has been playing the game for 3 years. Flukes are less and less probable. Foreigners can't win major tournaments outside of Korea, never mind get into the semifinals of the GSL like Jinro did, and with good reason.
Actually, it's the early champions which are the most recognizable. Fruitdealer for being first, and then Nestea, MC and MVP for dominating the entire first year.
It's the 2012+ champions which are easier to forget.
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hope they do a better job of promoting this player than they've done with their europeans
#realtalk
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Never would have expected mouz to be the ones to pick up Dear.
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This is awesome. Excited to see Dear at more foreign events :D
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EU shall quake in its boots.
It's just a case of the best players either going to non-Korean teams or the Korean teams with big sponsors.
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Not a good news. Dear will win some new fans around foreign events, but his shape will fade in Code S, just like other players as Innovation, Taeja... I hope I'm wrong, but that always happens...
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On December 20 2013 17:51 Veluvian wrote:
Not a good news. Dear will win some new fans around foreign events, but his shape will fade in Code S, just like other players as Innovation, Taeja... I hope I'm wrong, but that always happens...
Y like Inno with multiple top finishes last year, oh and Taeja with 4 major titles ? Or where it 5 ? :O The Hellbatnerf was not a reason that Inno's TvT became crap, no it was not. And his TvT became not rly better after he trained with MMA outside of GSL ... no *irony off*
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@mouzChase, I enjoy all the tournaments arround the world, but Code S is another universe, another level comparing the rest. Players who usually use so much energy in so many events don't have the strenght enough to endure to the big competition in Korea, physically and mentaly, that's why I'm worried for Dear. I see you're a big fan of mouz team, that's great, but let's be realists. Btw for what multiple top finishes of Innovation do you speak? Individually - not in Acer, yes, in GSTL, but not in individual leagues. After Season 1 - NONE. And no Code S champion title, and Innovation was really the best, I saw how he play in DH Bucharest. But he was not that power months ago in STX Soul, with the macro games, with scv all-in's. To train in Korean team is totally different from foreign team, that was my point of view. And the other point - rather to decide to stay in WCS Korea, or to try foreign major tournaments, but to win all of them - impossible.
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On December 20 2013 19:05 Veluvian wrote:@mouzChase, I enjoy all the tournaments arround the world, but Code S is another universe, another level comparing the rest. Players who usually use so much energy in so many events don't have the strenght enough to endure to the big competition in Korea, physically and mentaly, that's why I'm worried for Dear. I see you're a big fan of mouz team, that's great, but let's be realists. Btw for what multiple top finishes of Innovation do you speak? Individually - not in Acer, yes, in GSTL, but not in individual leagues. After Season 1 - NONE. And no Code S champion title, and Innovation was really the best, I saw how he play in DH Bucharest. But he was not that power months ago in STX Soul, with the macro games, with scv all-in's. To train in Korean team is totally different from foreign team, that was my point of view. And the other point - rather to decide to stay in WCS Korea, or to try foreign major tournaments, but to win all of them - impossible.
I agree on with you the all the tournament overseas are hard to handle and that players rly need more time to recharge. And yes Code S is another level of play and sure, the training that you get out of it is rly good, but i dont think that you get so much weaker by playing outside of korea. At least when you are rly talented like Inno, Taeja, Dear, sOs and so on. I think Inno got more into an overal slump then rly lacking skillwise, cause he left korea, guess its more the travel but we will never find out ^^ :D
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WOAH huge pick up! Good luck to both sides. Hearing more english from Dear would be awesome!
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On December 20 2013 19:05 Veluvian wrote:@mouzChase, I enjoy all the tournaments arround the world, but Code S is another universe, another level comparing the rest. Players who usually use so much energy in so many events don't have the strenght enough to endure to the big competition in Korea, physically and mentaly, that's why I'm worried for Dear. I see you're a big fan of mouz team, that's great, but let's be realists. Btw for what multiple top finishes of Innovation do you speak? Individually - not in Acer, yes, in GSTL, but not in individual leagues. After Season 1 - NONE. And no Code S champion title, and Innovation was really the best, I saw how he play in DH Bucharest. But he was not that power months ago in STX Soul, with the macro games, with scv all-in's. To train in Korean team is totally different from foreign team, that was my point of view. And the other point - rather to decide to stay in WCS Korea, or to try foreign major tournaments, but to win all of them - impossible.
Eventually someone is guna break the cycle? It WILL happen eventually and Dear has a great work ethic that got him to where he is now. And going overseas to play more tournaments is really something he wants to do, so if he's motivated I think he can still perform to the best of his abilities. And luckily he will be staying in Korea, staying on Korean ladder and still playing in WCS Korea, so I don't see where his skill level will decline? Or where he is all of a sudden guna be playing less skillful competition? Those arguments aren't valid until we see how he performs and how he handles the travel, because honestly until then, no one knows what is guna happen.
Apparently, mouz still has some special announcements to come so we shall have to wait and see what else they have up their sleeve! But he has many friends and connections in Korea, so those people will still be around to be a support system. And I don't think anyone can say that Jaedong is playing worse now than he was in Korea, or that he's "lost skill" by playing on a foreign team. So I really don't agree with that argument being made to be the almighty truth at this point in time.
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EPT
