Baek "Dear" Dong Jun will join the mousesports StarCraft II division. The 19-year-old Protoss player has recently won the gold medal in the 2013 WCS Season 3 as well as the 2013 WCS S3 Korea GSL and will be the first Korean player on the StarCraft II roster.
In the future, mouz Dear will improve his English skills to be able to communicate well with his new teammates and he's planning to visit as many international tournaments as possible in 2014. His first official appearance for mousesports will be the IEM Sao Paulo Asian Qualifier this Friday.
wtf, lol! I expected anything from KT to Samsung to EG or TL but mouz is such a surprise! very nice. now pls announce you have some deal with some SPL team for Dear to play in there and I am gonna be happy
Makes sense with a big mouz signing, since they really haven't added to their squad since Karont3 disbanded. Glad I never removed my mouz tag, even when times looked their darkest!
damn that sucks. so dear now about going around the world playing foreign tournaments and forget about Korea and stuff, just like MC. i wanted him to join some kespa team q_q
ahhhhhh this news pleases me greatly, I was worried Dear would be stuck on some unsponsored Korean team and not be able to show his skills off. Kid is sick good and plays the style of Protoss I try to emulate
Crap, that probably means Soul will be dead. Even though I've always liked mouz, it's sad to see all the good players switching teams. First Bogus, then Trap and now even Dear.
On December 19 2013 21:32 Talin wrote: I doubt they will be able to ship all their players to Korea and keep them there for such a long time to participate in Proleague.
It would be awesome if they could though.
Yeah, but a partnership to allow Dear (and maybe also some of their foreign players) live in team house and participate in SPL would make some sense, no? I hope that's it!
Well this hit faster then a bolt out of the blue, and harder as well. Wonder what this means for Dear, will he continue to play in the GSL or focus primarily on tournaments abroad.
And of course, what will happen to the rest of Soul's lineup, Sacscri, hyvaa and Last.
On December 19 2013 21:49 Destructicon wrote: Well this hit faster then a bolt out of the blue, and harder as well. Wonder what this means for Dear, will he continue to play in the GSL or focus primarily on tournaments abroad.
And of course, what will happen to the rest of Soul's lineup, Sacscri, hyvaa and Last.
On December 19 2013 21:49 Destructicon wrote: Well this hit faster then a bolt out of the blue, and harder as well. Wonder what this means for Dear, will he continue to play in the GSL or focus primarily on tournaments abroad.
And of course, what will happen to the rest of Soul's lineup, Sacscri, hyvaa and Last.
Sacsri isn't on SouL though right?
Didn't Soul pick him up after NSH disbanded? Oh snap that was SsanaeE, my bad.
With mouz Dear, also Seo Hyeon Park, who was of great value during the meetings with the player, will join mousesports as the club's first Korean Affairs SC2 Coordinator.
That should open the door for potentially more Korean pick-ups. Where will they stay though?
Monster pick up for Mouz. Looks like Acer's Innovation pick up wasn't the biggest one of the year . Mouz will still need another strong player to support him in the team leagues. Hopefully with Dear there, the other mouz players will improve.
On December 19 2013 21:49 Destructicon wrote: Well this hit faster then a bolt out of the blue, and harder as well. Wonder what this means for Dear, will he continue to play in the GSL or focus primarily on tournaments abroad.
And of course, what will happen to the rest of Soul's lineup, Sacscri, hyvaa and Last.
On December 19 2013 21:49 Destructicon wrote: Well this hit faster then a bolt out of the blue, and harder as well. Wonder what this means for Dear, will he continue to play in the GSL or focus primarily on tournaments abroad.
And of course, what will happen to the rest of Soul's lineup, Sacscri, hyvaa and Last.
On December 19 2013 21:58 StarStruck wrote: Hopefully Dear doesn't suffer the same side effects as Bogus. D:
Did I miss something? Bogus is still pretty, preeeeeeettyyyy, preeeeeettyyyyy good.
Bogus is still pretty good. A lot of koreans pros are still shit scared of him (out of interviews of course) does not win tournaments but always places high in tournaments. Yes he chokes or gets outplayed in the most important games but he's still pretty good. Been so consistent that he basically carried his team to win 3 different teamleague tournament for this year. I dont think he is that bad. That doesn't mean Taeja doesn't make him his bitch in tvt though.
On December 19 2013 21:58 StarStruck wrote: Hopefully Dear doesn't suffer the same side effects as Bogus. D:
what are you talking about, bogus has been doing great on Acer. its people like you who say people are slumping just because they don't win every tournament they attend.
Great news for Dear. I think being on Mouz will give him a lot more opportunities. Also, now I don't think there exists a single top-level foreign team anymore that doesn't have Koreans. The assimilation is complete
On December 19 2013 22:16 TaShadan wrote: Mousesports has the money to afford dear?
At least it`s fair to assue that they have one of the most expensive rosters in the foreigner scene atm. They acquired the Duran brothers when they were the hottest property on the market and I guess Dear will be very costly aswell.
was nice to see Mouz with the all foreigner team, but oh well its really a nice pickup. But since I already wanted to post it last time. Noooo don't separate Trap and Dear.
On December 19 2013 22:16 TaShadan wrote: Mousesports has the money to afford dear?
At least it`s fair to assue that they have one of the most expensive rosters in the foreigner scene atm. They acquired the Duran brothers when they were the hottest property on the market and I guess Dear will be very costly aswell.
Weren't both the Duran brother part time when they moved to Mouz? Which means they weren't that expensive when they were picked up.
On December 19 2013 22:32 robertpires87 wrote: 1) Dear's joining Mouz means the end of Taeja's reign on European competition.
2) Team Hyun, Team Dear, and Team Taeja will fight for the third best team in Acer Team Story Cup
I'm not sure. We shall wait and see. Few players are able to grind foreign events without losing themselves. And most of KeSPA players weren't used to this. I'm not saying this isn't going to happen, just that nothing is set in stone.
On one hand, he won't be able to play in the Proleague but on the other, he will start to get in the tournaments all over the world(like Jaedong and Innovation), and there are a lot more of those than the tournaments in Korea.
This was definitely unexpected. Good luck, really amazing pick up!
With Dear as practice partner, HeroMarine can become serious foreign threat to the Koreans. :D
Lucifron, Mana and Vortix are among my favourite foreigners, I think they can improve their vP a lot with Dear in the team. Happy for Dear that he can now compete in more foreign tournaments but this news also pretty much confirms the doom of SouL since both Trap and Dear are gone now... =( I think there'll be a larger chain of events to follow, SouL disbandment is almost certain now at the very least.
Poor soul, poor gom, poor gstl Can't really blame dear though, I bet mouz had way way more to offer than soul. Still very sad to see this happen, fucking foreign money.
Innovation to Acer. Trap to IM and now Dear to Mouz. None of my favourite players joined a team I like that much. It's like a dagger to the heart. I can only dream hyvaa ends up someplace cool. =/
They just hired probably the best player in the world right now. I hope they don't fuck this up, because I thought they wanted to focus on European players.
Wow, that's some really great news. Mouz still improving their roster and maybe once again becomeing a real power in a wrold where every other relevant team has at least one top teir korean. Very nice.
Wow!! Completely left field on this announcement. Amazing pickup for Mouz on this one, and I'm really excited to see Dear play in more foreign tournaments. Even more excited to see him learn some English, he was pretty funny in a winners interview ar WCS Season 3 and seeing Koreans reach out to fans and become more personable is always a fantastic thing. Good luck to Dear in 2014!!!
oh wow. Unexpected pickup ! Its the least i can say. Good for dear he will be able to travel and discover the world, bad for jaedong more second places inc.
On December 19 2013 23:20 CrankOut wrote: They just hired probably the best player in the world right now. I hope they don't fuck this up, because I thought they wanted to focus on European players.
On December 19 2013 23:28 shid0x wrote: oh wow. Unexpected pickup ! Its the least i can say. Good for dear he will be able to travel and discover the world, bad for jaedong more second places inc.
On December 20 2013 00:23 Kuckuck wrote: sucks i liked mouz for their NON-korean roster
Agreed. While they still have the same foreign roster as before, I'd rather see them invest the money into up-and-coming foreign players rather than buy an already established heavy hitter such as Dear. They gave up a pretty unique position in the team landscape to mingle with the other big teams of the scene. I hope that they are aware of that and still judged the benefits to outweigh the prize.
On December 20 2013 00:29 bGr.MetHiX wrote: mouz and acer crazy line-ups : )
Acer has the deeper line-up though. Let's see how it plays out. I really love the spread of korean a-teamers among foreign teams, be it EGJD, mouzDear or AcerInnovation
Actually, I am not happy about this. I always liked mouz because of it's full foreigner roster. Mouz was showing us they can be top teams without any Koreans in roster. I mean, they almost qualified for ATC finals when other teams used Koreans as their aces or were full Korean teams.
Yeah we all saw Soul's death coming. Great pick up for Mouz, I am shocked TL and particularly EG did not recruit him since EG now has so much available liquidity.
Yea sure the sentimentality of having an all foreigner roster is cool and everything, but it doesn't win team leagues or brig home individual success anymore to stay relevant you really do need top Koreans. Great pickup by Mouz!
wow I read the title, wondered if it was actually Dear or not then found out it was him after all. Great pickup! I guess SouL must be that team that was folding. I wish him best of luck and will be great to see him in more tournaments in the upcoming months! Wonder if he will be able to retain his skills well with the transition
I'm super excited to see Dear in more foreign tournaments, it seems like it's much easier to gain prize money doing that seeing as how all the top earners in sc2 history have left for foreign teams and travel to foreign tournaments all the time. But I'm also glad he's staying in WCS Korea, I think a good balance is nice, korea isn't losing one of it's best players, but at the same time he's guna be able to travel to all these foreign tournaments. Excited to see what mouse does with this opportunity! Love all this action during the "off-season"
On December 20 2013 01:02 Dr.Sin wrote: Yeah we all saw Soul's death coming. Great pick up for Mouz, I am shocked TL and particularly EG did not recruit him since EG now has so much available liquidity.
EG probably has something in the works, I would imagine. They wouldn't cut three players without an idea of the future (I think) =P
On December 20 2013 01:02 Dr.Sin wrote: Yeah we all saw Soul's death coming. Great pick up for Mouz, I am shocked TL and particularly EG did not recruit him since EG now has so much available liquidity.
EG probably has something in the works, I would imagine. They wouldn't cut three players without an idea of the future (I think) =P
Incontrol pretty much said on Unfiltred they are focusing on Jaedong and not replacing Oz aLive and Revival
I will echo many here by saying that I hope Dear finds a way to participate in Proleague. This would be a great way to get Mouz more exposure, and I'm sure any team would love to have Dear join them just for PL purposes (the same way HerO did with IM). For balance reasons I'm kind of hoping that if it happens Dear joins Prime or Samsung--would immediately reverse the fortunes of those teams. But I'm guessing if it happens it'll be Jin Air, since Dear is apparently very good friends with sOs.
I do also hope hyvaa finds a strong team, his play, especially in Proleague/GSTL, has really impressed me.
More Koreans on foreign teams = more Koreans traveling around to events and playing on non-Korean ladders from time to time = raising the bar for everyone!
Spectators win because the non GSL tournaments increase in quality. Foreigners win because they get to practice with Koreans.
On December 20 2013 01:00 Cinek357 wrote: Actually, I am not happy about this. I always liked mouz because of it's full foreigner roster. Mouz was showing us they can be top teams without any Koreans in roster. I mean, they almost qualified for ATC finals when other teams used Koreans as their aces or were full Korean teams.
Almost qualifying is a long way from actually qualifying, and no they aren't hanging out with the best, neither in terms of team results or individual results.
EG, Liquid, and now mYi and Acer have really shown that, if you want to get things done, you call in the Koreans.
I hope that it won`t snowball though, so that Acer/Liquid/EG add new high calibre Koreans. Basically all the top teams have lost the ability to develop talent.
On December 20 2013 02:37 digmouse wrote: According to a Korean interview, SouL's coach Kim said Hyvaa, Last and Yoongjoo are going to retire with SouL disbanding.
On December 20 2013 02:37 digmouse wrote: According to a Korean interview, SouL's coach Kim said Hyvaa, Last and Yoongjoo are going to retire with SouL disbanding.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
That is pretty sad
Sad indeed. But where is Ssanae going then? Everyone always forgets that guy
On December 20 2013 02:37 digmouse wrote: According to a Korean interview, SouL's coach Kim said Hyvaa, Last and Yoongjoo are going to retire with SouL disbanding.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
That is pretty sad
It really is. I was hoping SouL would be able to find extra sponsors and players for them to stabilize
Regardless, grats to both Dear and Mouz-- Dear definitely deserves it.
After the initial shock, this actually seems to make a lot of sense. Dear seemed to LOVE the Season 3 finals, so going to foreign tournaments was probably high on his list of goals. Great pick up by Mouz; Dear is after all the Reigning GSL champion, cant really get a higher caliber player than that.
All I can say I hate such transfers. Both scenes have lost and there will be no more big wins for Dear. And he seems to be the 2nd player after jjakji who changed region.
On December 20 2013 02:57 DiMano wrote: All I can say I hate such transfers. Both scenes have lost and there will be no more big wins for Dear. And he seems to be the 2nd player after jjakji who changed region.
From tweets posted earlier in this thread, Dear is staying in Korea and will continue to participate in GSL. He's not moving to WCS EU like jjakji is.
As for SSanaEE, unless he's a magician or joins a small foreign team I assume he's retiring too. He got to play a lot in GSTL because he was on teams with no depth who needed him to win, and he looked pretty terrible.
An incredible pickup, seems the one thing you need to be a successful foreign team is at least one corner stone Korean player and Dear is a hell of an acquisition. Will also give him a chance to attend some foreigner tournaments and bump up his earnings a little too.
On December 20 2013 02:55 Irrational_Animal wrote: I wonder whether we are starting to reach a situation now, where the massive oversaturation is coming to an end. So many players have retired.
I think we are getting close, but we are still at 11 korean teams: 8 kespa + Startale + fou + Azubu (AxA isnt part of eSF so Im still counting them as a foreign team), which may still be 1 too many. I kinda hope fou and Prime do a merger or something, because both are pretty weak atm. And then ST and AZ switch over to kespa as well. Sad to see for eSF, but I dont think korea can support 2 whole e-sports organizations.
Wow, huge surprise!! Great for mouz! Well I really wanted to see Dear in PL, but I'm interested in how this will pan out if mouz has some more announcements. Opening a team house in Europe, or signing some more Koreans? With SouL disbanding does that mean the end of GSTL? At least it is a lot less stacked than PL right now!
On December 20 2013 02:57 DiMano wrote: All I can say I hate such transfers. Both scenes have lost and there will be no more big wins for Dear.
Why?
Koreans on foreign teams lose their skills so much and never win GSL. I love all korean players but for me players who are on korean teams and practice in team houses are the ones who deserve to win. Korea just loses another good player as they can watch only GSL so it is another big strike to already dying scene The goal of progaming in Korea is lost when such transfers happen. 2 years ago my dream was to visit Korea and visit a team house to feel the true starcraft atmosphere but now the best korean players choose to join a foreign team just for better money and traveling coz there is only 1 league and no money in Korea there is nothing good at it. The dream of young SC players in Korea is now to join a foreing team to get easy money. 2 years ago player would never choose a foreign team over korean one. For me who watches absolutely all korean SC nonstop such transfer and decision to choose foreign team over korean is a straight strike to my heart. I always dreamt to be a 15 year old korean boy who is playing SC and has a dream to join KeSPA team to become a star but now I feel that there will be no more such dreams as minds of korean players have another things. Now they are dreaming to make easy money instead of being the best in the world... Rain's interview made me to remember my old dreams but it was 1 bright in the darkness.
On December 20 2013 02:57 DiMano wrote: All I can say I hate such transfers. Both scenes have lost and there will be no more big wins for Dear.
Why?
Koreans on foreign teams lose their skills so much and never win GSL. I love all korean players but for me players who are on korean teams and practice in team houses are the ones who deserve to win. Korea just loses another good player as they can watch only GSL so it is another big strike to already dying scene The goal of progaming in Korea is lost when such transfers happen. 2 years ago my dream was to visit Korea and visit a team house to feel the true starcraft atmosphere but now the best korean players choose to join a foreign team just for better money and traveling coz there is only 1 league and no money in Korea there is nothing good at it. The dream of young SC players in Korea is now to join a foreing team to get easy money. 2 years ago player would never choose a foreign team over korean one. For me who watches absolutely all korean SC nonstop such transfer and decision to choose foreign team over korean is a straight strike to my heart. I always dreamt to be a 15 year old korean boy who is playing SC and has a dream to join KeSPA team to become a star but now I feel that there will be no more such dreams as minds of korean players have another things. Now they are dreaming to make easy money instead of being the best in the world... Rain's interview made me to remember my old dreams but it was 1 bright in the darkness.
On December 20 2013 02:57 DiMano wrote: All I can say I hate such transfers. Both scenes have lost and there will be no more big wins for Dear.
Why?
Koreans on foreign teams lose their skills so much and never win GSL. I love all korean players but for me players who are on korean teams and practice in team houses are the ones who deserve to win. Korea just loses another good player as they can watch only GSL so it is another big strike to already dying scene The goal of progaming in Korea is lost when such transfers happen. 2 years ago my dream was to visit Korea and visit a team house to feel the true starcraft atmosphere but now the best korean players choose to join a foreign team just for better money and traveling coz there is only 1 league and no money in Korea there is nothing good at it. The dream of young SC players in Korea is now to join a foreing team to get easy money. 2 years ago player would never choose a foreign team over korean one. For me who watches absolutely all korean SC nonstop such transfer and decision to choose foreign team over korean is a straight strike to my heart. I always dreamt to be a 15 year old korean boy who is playing SC and has a dream to join KeSPA team to become a star but now I feel that there will be no more such dreams as minds of korean players have another things. Now they are dreaming to make easy money instead of being the best in the world... Rain's interview made me to remember my old dreams but it was 1 bright in the darkness.
Yeah Taeja really suffered by joining TL, and Jaedong has all but retired thanks to EG.
On December 20 2013 02:57 DiMano wrote: All I can say I hate such transfers. Both scenes have lost and there will be no more big wins for Dear.
Why?
Koreans on foreign teams lose their skills so much and never win GSL. I love all korean players but for me players who are on korean teams and practice in team houses are the ones who deserve to win. Korea just loses another good player as they can watch only GSL so it is another big strike to already dying scene The goal of progaming in Korea is lost when such transfers happen. 2 years ago my dream was to visit Korea and visit a team house to feel the true starcraft atmosphere but now the best korean players choose to join a foreign team just for better money and traveling coz there is only 1 league and no money in Korea there is nothing good at it. The dream of young SC players in Korea is now to join a foreing team to get easy money. 2 years ago player would never choose a foreign team over korean one. For me who watches absolutely all korean SC nonstop such transfer and decision to choose foreign team over korean is a straight strike to my heart. I always dreamt to be a 15 year old korean boy who is playing SC and has a dream to join KeSPA team to become a star but now I feel that there will be no more such dreams as minds of korean players have another things. Now they are dreaming to make easy money instead of being the best in the world... Rain's interview made me to remember my old dreams but it was 1 bright in the darkness.
Maybe you should grow up
The guy just gave a straight answer, maybe you should calm down.
It definitely indicates a shift in what it means to be a successful korean progamer. Whenever there is a culture change there is loss, as well as growth.
On December 20 2013 02:57 DiMano wrote: All I can say I hate such transfers. Both scenes have lost and there will be no more big wins for Dear.
Why?
Koreans on foreign teams lose their skills so much and never win GSL. I love all korean players but for me players who are on korean teams and practice in team houses are the ones who deserve to win. Korea just loses another good player as they can watch only GSL so it is another big strike to already dying scene The goal of progaming in Korea is lost when such transfers happen. 2 years ago my dream was to visit Korea and visit a team house to feel the true starcraft atmosphere but now the best korean players choose to join a foreign team just for better money and traveling coz there is only 1 league and no money in Korea there is nothing good at it. The dream of young SC players in Korea is now to join a foreing team to get easy money. 2 years ago player would never choose a foreign team over korean one. For me who watches absolutely all korean SC nonstop such transfer and decision to choose foreign team over korean is a straight strike to my heart. I always dreamt to be a 15 year old korean boy who is playing SC and has a dream to join KeSPA team to become a star but now I feel that there will be no more such dreams as minds of korean players have another things. Now they are dreaming to make easy money instead of being the best in the world... Rain's interview made me to remember my old dreams but it was 1 bright in the darkness.
Yeah Taeja really suffered by joining TL, and Jaedong has all but retired thanks to EG.
And Inno didnt get that bad on acer! But I understand his pov
On December 20 2013 02:57 DiMano wrote: All I can say I hate such transfers. Both scenes have lost and there will be no more big wins for Dear.
Why?
Koreans on foreign teams lose their skills so much and never win GSL. I love all korean players but for me players who are on korean teams and practice in team houses are the ones who deserve to win. Korea just loses another good player as they can watch only GSL so it is another big strike to already dying scene The goal of progaming in Korea is lost when such transfers happen. 2 years ago my dream was to visit Korea and visit a team house to feel the true starcraft atmosphere but now the best korean players choose to join a foreign team just for better money and traveling coz there is only 1 league and no money in Korea there is nothing good at it. The dream of young SC players in Korea is now to join a foreing team to get easy money. 2 years ago player would never choose a foreign team over korean one. For me who watches absolutely all korean SC nonstop such transfer and decision to choose foreign team over korean is a straight strike to my heart. I always dreamt to be a 15 year old korean boy who is playing SC and has a dream to join KeSPA team to become a star but now I feel that there will be no more such dreams as minds of korean players have another things. Now they are dreaming to make easy money instead of being the best in the world... Rain's interview made me to remember my old dreams but it was 1 bright in the darkness.
Yeah Taeja really suffered by joining TL, and Jaedong has all but retired thanks to EG.
TaeJa won nothing in Korea as Jaedong did. The foreign events where you always start facing good player from Ro8 does not impress me at all sorry. It is just a good show for people who know nothing about BW leagues and what it take to be a champion and a ton of games with limited amount of good players. Only MC who was on foreign team made to the finals of GSL and 0 players won it but the main thing in my message is another.
On December 20 2013 02:57 DiMano wrote: All I can say I hate such transfers. Both scenes have lost and there will be no more big wins for Dear.
Why?
Koreans on foreign teams lose their skills so much and never win GSL. I love all korean players but for me players who are on korean teams and practice in team houses are the ones who deserve to win. Korea just loses another good player as they can watch only GSL so it is another big strike to already dying scene The goal of progaming in Korea is lost when such transfers happen. 2 years ago my dream was to visit Korea and visit a team house to feel the true starcraft atmosphere but now the best korean players choose to join a foreign team just for better money and traveling coz there is only 1 league and no money in Korea there is nothing good at it. The dream of young SC players in Korea is now to join a foreing team to get easy money. 2 years ago player would never choose a foreign team over korean one. For me who watches absolutely all korean SC nonstop such transfer and decision to choose foreign team over korean is a straight strike to my heart. I always dreamt to be a 15 year old korean boy who is playing SC and has a dream to join KeSPA team to become a star but now I feel that there will be no more such dreams as minds of korean players have another things. Now they are dreaming to make easy money instead of being the best in the world... Rain's interview made me to remember my old dreams but it was 1 bright in the darkness.
Yeah Taeja really suffered by joining TL, and Jaedong has all but retired thanks to EG.
And Inno didnt get that bad on acer! But I understand his pov
He does not bad but based on all of my experience the chance of him to become the star power what he was on STX and win something in Korea is minimal and I am sure that it will never happen (because there are just 0 cases to prove me wrong and the currant INno skillset shows that the trend is always the same) but yeah he can definitely win some foreign events where you will never have 32 GSL calibre players.
On December 20 2013 02:57 DiMano wrote: All I can say I hate such transfers. Both scenes have lost and there will be no more big wins for Dear.
Why?
Koreans on foreign teams lose their skills so much and never win GSL. I love all korean players but for me players who are on korean teams and practice in team houses are the ones who deserve to win. Korea just loses another good player as they can watch only GSL so it is another big strike to already dying scene The goal of progaming in Korea is lost when such transfers happen. 2 years ago my dream was to visit Korea and visit a team house to feel the true starcraft atmosphere but now the best korean players choose to join a foreign team just for better money and traveling coz there is only 1 league and no money in Korea there is nothing good at it. The dream of young SC players in Korea is now to join a foreing team to get easy money. 2 years ago player would never choose a foreign team over korean one. For me who watches absolutely all korean SC nonstop such transfer and decision to choose foreign team over korean is a straight strike to my heart. I always dreamt to be a 15 year old korean boy who is playing SC and has a dream to join KeSPA team to become a star but now I feel that there will be no more such dreams as minds of korean players have another things. Now they are dreaming to make easy money instead of being the best in the world... Rain's interview made me to remember my old dreams but it was 1 bright in the darkness.
Yeah Taeja really suffered by joining TL, and Jaedong has all but retired thanks to EG.
TaeJa won nothing in Korea as Jaedong did. The foreign events where you always start facing good player from Ro8 does not impress me at all sorry. It is just a good show for people who know nothing about BW leagues and what it take to be a champion and a ton of games with limited amount of good players. Only MC who was on foreign team made to the finals of GSL and 0 players won it but the main thing in my message is another.
Taeja is a 2-time Code S quarter finalist (losing to the eventual champ both times) and a quarter finalist at WCS Season 2.
If you think Taeja has "suffered", you must have a low opinion of most Koreans in the GSL.
On December 20 2013 02:57 DiMano wrote: All I can say I hate such transfers. Both scenes have lost and there will be no more big wins for Dear.
Why?
Koreans on foreign teams lose their skills so much and never win GSL. I love all korean players but for me players who are on korean teams and practice in team houses are the ones who deserve to win. Korea just loses another good player as they can watch only GSL so it is another big strike to already dying scene The goal of progaming in Korea is lost when such transfers happen. 2 years ago my dream was to visit Korea and visit a team house to feel the true starcraft atmosphere but now the best korean players choose to join a foreign team just for better money and traveling coz there is only 1 league and no money in Korea there is nothing good at it. The dream of young SC players in Korea is now to join a foreing team to get easy money. 2 years ago player would never choose a foreign team over korean one. For me who watches absolutely all korean SC nonstop such transfer and decision to choose foreign team over korean is a straight strike to my heart. I always dreamt to be a 15 year old korean boy who is playing SC and has a dream to join KeSPA team to become a star but now I feel that there will be no more such dreams as minds of korean players have another things. Now they are dreaming to make easy money instead of being the best in the world... Rain's interview made me to remember my old dreams but it was 1 bright in the darkness.
Yeah Taeja really suffered by joining TL, and Jaedong has all but retired thanks to EG.
TaeJa won nothing in Korea as Jaedong did. The foreign events where you always start facing good player from Ro8 does not impress me at all sorry. It is just a good show for people who know nothing about BW leagues and what it take to be a champion and a ton of games with limited amount of good players. Only MC who was on foreign team made to the finals of GSL and 0 players won it but the main thing in my message is another.
Taeja is a 2-time Code S quarter finalist (losing to the eventual champ both times) and a quarter finalist at WCS Season 2.
If you think Taeja has "suffered", you must have a low opinion of most Koreans in the GSL.
I do not understand what you are trying to prove I know everything about TaeJa, he never won GSL he won foreign events but it is not the hardest thing to do and such wins do not impress me at all. He played in SPL he was good but there were 10+ players who were better or had the same stats and he had the negative overall score (Bisu had the same stats as TaeJa) so plz stop using your TaeJa's example.
On December 20 2013 02:57 DiMano wrote: All I can say I hate such transfers. Both scenes have lost and there will be no more big wins for Dear.
Why?
Koreans on foreign teams lose their skills so much and never win GSL. I love all korean players but for me players who are on korean teams and practice in team houses are the ones who deserve to win. Korea just loses another good player as they can watch only GSL so it is another big strike to already dying scene The goal of progaming in Korea is lost when such transfers happen. 2 years ago my dream was to visit Korea and visit a team house to feel the true starcraft atmosphere but now the best korean players choose to join a foreign team just for better money and traveling coz there is only 1 league and no money in Korea there is nothing good at it. The dream of young SC players in Korea is now to join a foreing team to get easy money. 2 years ago player would never choose a foreign team over korean one. For me who watches absolutely all korean SC nonstop such transfer and decision to choose foreign team over korean is a straight strike to my heart. I always dreamt to be a 15 year old korean boy who is playing SC and has a dream to join KeSPA team to become a star but now I feel that there will be no more such dreams as minds of korean players have another things. Now they are dreaming to make easy money instead of being the best in the world... Rain's interview made me to remember my old dreams but it was 1 bright in the darkness.
Yeah Taeja really suffered by joining TL, and Jaedong has all but retired thanks to EG.
TaeJa won nothing in Korea as Jaedong did. The foreign events where you always start facing good player from Ro8 does not impress me at all sorry. It is just a good show for people who know nothing about BW leagues and what it take to be a champion and a ton of games with limited amount of good players. Only MC who was on foreign team made to the finals of GSL and 0 players won it but the main thing in my message is another.
Taeja is a 2-time Code S quarter finalist (losing to the eventual champ both times) and a quarter finalist at WCS Season 2.
If you think Taeja has "suffered", you must have a low opinion of most Koreans in the GSL.
Semi-finalist. He made the Ro4 twice, which is very impressive.
Still, while I do believe that Liquid has really helped Taeja career-wise, I don't think Taeja will ever win a premier tournament in Korea, which is a huge shame. One of the effects of joining a foreign team is an emphasis on foreign events, and also means that talent effectively leaves Korea. This could be good and bad, since previously Korea was oversaturated with talent and now the talent is more evenly spread across regions.
On December 20 2013 02:57 DiMano wrote: All I can say I hate such transfers. Both scenes have lost and there will be no more big wins for Dear.
Why?
Koreans on foreign teams lose their skills so much and never win GSL. I love all korean players but for me players who are on korean teams and practice in team houses are the ones who deserve to win. Korea just loses another good player as they can watch only GSL so it is another big strike to already dying scene The goal of progaming in Korea is lost when such transfers happen. 2 years ago my dream was to visit Korea and visit a team house to feel the true starcraft atmosphere but now the best korean players choose to join a foreign team just for better money and traveling coz there is only 1 league and no money in Korea there is nothing good at it. The dream of young SC players in Korea is now to join a foreing team to get easy money. 2 years ago player would never choose a foreign team over korean one. For me who watches absolutely all korean SC nonstop such transfer and decision to choose foreign team over korean is a straight strike to my heart. I always dreamt to be a 15 year old korean boy who is playing SC and has a dream to join KeSPA team to become a star but now I feel that there will be no more such dreams as minds of korean players have another things. Now they are dreaming to make easy money instead of being the best in the world... Rain's interview made me to remember my old dreams but it was 1 bright in the darkness.
Yeah Taeja really suffered by joining TL, and Jaedong has all but retired thanks to EG.
TaeJa won nothing in Korea as Jaedong did. The foreign events where you always start facing good player from Ro8 does not impress me at all sorry. It is just a good show for people who know nothing about BW leagues and what it take to be a champion and a ton of games with limited amount of good players. Only MC who was on foreign team made to the finals of GSL and 0 players won it but the main thing in my message is another.
Taeja is a 2-time Code S quarter finalist (losing to the eventual champ both times) and a quarter finalist at WCS Season 2.
If you think Taeja has "suffered", you must have a low opinion of most Koreans in the GSL.
Semi-finalist. He made the Ro4 twice, which is very impressive.
Still, while I do believe that Liquid has really helped Taeja career-wise, I don't think Taeja will ever win a premier tournament in Korea, which is a huge shame. One of the effects of joining a foreign team is an emphasis on foreign events, and also means that talent effectively leaves Korea. This could be good and bad, since previously Korea was oversaturated with talent and now the talent is more evenly spread across regions.
The shame is that people think that a foreign event win = GSL win which is very frustrating.
On December 20 2013 02:57 DiMano wrote: All I can say I hate such transfers. Both scenes have lost and there will be no more big wins for Dear.
Why?
Koreans on foreign teams lose their skills so much and never win GSL. I love all korean players but for me players who are on korean teams and practice in team houses are the ones who deserve to win. Korea just loses another good player as they can watch only GSL so it is another big strike to already dying scene The goal of progaming in Korea is lost when such transfers happen. 2 years ago my dream was to visit Korea and visit a team house to feel the true starcraft atmosphere but now the best korean players choose to join a foreign team just for better money and traveling coz there is only 1 league and no money in Korea there is nothing good at it. The dream of young SC players in Korea is now to join a foreing team to get easy money. 2 years ago player would never choose a foreign team over korean one. For me who watches absolutely all korean SC nonstop such transfer and decision to choose foreign team over korean is a straight strike to my heart. I always dreamt to be a 15 year old korean boy who is playing SC and has a dream to join KeSPA team to become a star but now I feel that there will be no more such dreams as minds of korean players have another things. Now they are dreaming to make easy money instead of being the best in the world... Rain's interview made me to remember my old dreams but it was 1 bright in the darkness.
Yeah Taeja really suffered by joining TL, and Jaedong has all but retired thanks to EG.
TaeJa won nothing in Korea as Jaedong did. The foreign events where you always start facing good player from Ro8 does not impress me at all sorry. It is just a good show for people who know nothing about BW leagues and what it take to be a champion and a ton of games with limited amount of good players. Only MC who was on foreign team made to the finals of GSL and 0 players won it but the main thing in my message is another.
Taeja is a 2-time Code S quarter finalist (losing to the eventual champ both times) and a quarter finalist at WCS Season 2.
If you think Taeja has "suffered", you must have a low opinion of most Koreans in the GSL.
Semi-finalist. He made the Ro4 twice, which is very impressive.
Still, while I do believe that Liquid has really helped Taeja career-wise, I don't think Taeja will ever win a premier tournament in Korea, which is a huge shame. One of the effects of joining a foreign team is an emphasis on foreign events, and also means that talent effectively leaves Korea. This could be good and bad, since previously Korea was oversaturated with talent and now the talent is more evenly spread across regions.
The shame is that people think that a foreign event win = GSL win which is very frustrating.
On December 20 2013 02:57 DiMano wrote: All I can say I hate such transfers. Both scenes have lost and there will be no more big wins for Dear.
Why?
Koreans on foreign teams lose their skills so much and never win GSL. I love all korean players but for me players who are on korean teams and practice in team houses are the ones who deserve to win. Korea just loses another good player as they can watch only GSL so it is another big strike to already dying scene The goal of progaming in Korea is lost when such transfers happen. 2 years ago my dream was to visit Korea and visit a team house to feel the true starcraft atmosphere but now the best korean players choose to join a foreign team just for better money and traveling coz there is only 1 league and no money in Korea there is nothing good at it. The dream of young SC players in Korea is now to join a foreing team to get easy money. 2 years ago player would never choose a foreign team over korean one. For me who watches absolutely all korean SC nonstop such transfer and decision to choose foreign team over korean is a straight strike to my heart. I always dreamt to be a 15 year old korean boy who is playing SC and has a dream to join KeSPA team to become a star but now I feel that there will be no more such dreams as minds of korean players have another things. Now they are dreaming to make easy money instead of being the best in the world... Rain's interview made me to remember my old dreams but it was 1 bright in the darkness.
Yeah Taeja really suffered by joining TL, and Jaedong has all but retired thanks to EG.
TaeJa won nothing in Korea as Jaedong did. The foreign events where you always start facing good player from Ro8 does not impress me at all sorry. It is just a good show for people who know nothing about BW leagues and what it take to be a champion and a ton of games with limited amount of good players. Only MC who was on foreign team made to the finals of GSL and 0 players won it but the main thing in my message is another.
Taeja is a 2-time Code S quarter finalist (losing to the eventual champ both times) and a quarter finalist at WCS Season 2.
If you think Taeja has "suffered", you must have a low opinion of most Koreans in the GSL.
Semi-finalist. He made the Ro4 twice, which is very impressive.
Still, while I do believe that Liquid has really helped Taeja career-wise, I don't think Taeja will ever win a premier tournament in Korea, which is a huge shame. One of the effects of joining a foreign team is an emphasis on foreign events, and also means that talent effectively leaves Korea. This could be good and bad, since previously Korea was oversaturated with talent and now the talent is more evenly spread across regions.
The shame is that people think that a foreign event win = GSL win which is very frustrating.
On December 20 2013 02:57 DiMano wrote: All I can say I hate such transfers. Both scenes have lost and there will be no more big wins for Dear.
Why?
Koreans on foreign teams lose their skills so much and never win GSL. I love all korean players but for me players who are on korean teams and practice in team houses are the ones who deserve to win. Korea just loses another good player as they can watch only GSL so it is another big strike to already dying scene The goal of progaming in Korea is lost when such transfers happen. 2 years ago my dream was to visit Korea and visit a team house to feel the true starcraft atmosphere but now the best korean players choose to join a foreign team just for better money and traveling coz there is only 1 league and no money in Korea there is nothing good at it. The dream of young SC players in Korea is now to join a foreing team to get easy money. 2 years ago player would never choose a foreign team over korean one. For me who watches absolutely all korean SC nonstop such transfer and decision to choose foreign team over korean is a straight strike to my heart. I always dreamt to be a 15 year old korean boy who is playing SC and has a dream to join KeSPA team to become a star but now I feel that there will be no more such dreams as minds of korean players have another things. Now they are dreaming to make easy money instead of being the best in the world... Rain's interview made me to remember my old dreams but it was 1 bright in the darkness.
Only 3-5 players a year can now win a GSL. Taeja made multiple semi-finals after joining Team Liquid, Jaedong has truly blossomed after his move to EG, jjakji is relevant again and so is MMA. MC made WCS finals and Innovation consistently places highly in almost every tournament he enters. Some players decline after joining foreign teams, but Seed dropped off the face of the earth after winning GSL and Roro/Sniper haven't exactly been superstars either. I get that you want Korea to be super stacked and so do I, but let's not create some kind of fantasy where foreign teams equal declining skill because there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. Your idea that joining a foreign team is somehow "easy money" is almost offensive. The players that do get big contracts with foreign teams are already stars. You think EG would pick up Solar and give him a contract similar to JD's? Never in a million years. Joining a foreign team and getting the chances that Taeja, JD, Innovation and probably Dear get isn't the easy way, it's a safe reward for taking the hard way that gives you a reliable income and the oppurtunity to meet fans from around the globe.
Being upset because people leave Korea is fine, you can be as upset as you want, but the illusion that foreign teams are "easy money" needs to go away. It's not true.
On December 20 2013 02:57 DiMano wrote: All I can say I hate such transfers. Both scenes have lost and there will be no more big wins for Dear.
Why?
Koreans on foreign teams lose their skills so much and never win GSL. I love all korean players but for me players who are on korean teams and practice in team houses are the ones who deserve to win. Korea just loses another good player as they can watch only GSL so it is another big strike to already dying scene The goal of progaming in Korea is lost when such transfers happen. 2 years ago my dream was to visit Korea and visit a team house to feel the true starcraft atmosphere but now the best korean players choose to join a foreign team just for better money and traveling coz there is only 1 league and no money in Korea there is nothing good at it. The dream of young SC players in Korea is now to join a foreing team to get easy money. 2 years ago player would never choose a foreign team over korean one. For me who watches absolutely all korean SC nonstop such transfer and decision to choose foreign team over korean is a straight strike to my heart. I always dreamt to be a 15 year old korean boy who is playing SC and has a dream to join KeSPA team to become a star but now I feel that there will be no more such dreams as minds of korean players have another things. Now they are dreaming to make easy money instead of being the best in the world... Rain's interview made me to remember my old dreams but it was 1 bright in the darkness.
Yeah Taeja really suffered by joining TL, and Jaedong has all but retired thanks to EG.
TaeJa won nothing in Korea as Jaedong did. The foreign events where you always start facing good player from Ro8 does not impress me at all sorry. It is just a good show for people who know nothing about BW leagues and what it take to be a champion and a ton of games with limited amount of good players. Only MC who was on foreign team made to the finals of GSL and 0 players won it but the main thing in my message is another.
Taeja is a 2-time Code S quarter finalist (losing to the eventual champ both times) and a quarter finalist at WCS Season 2.
If you think Taeja has "suffered", you must have a low opinion of most Koreans in the GSL.
Semi-finalist. He made the Ro4 twice, which is very impressive.
Still, while I do believe that Liquid has really helped Taeja career-wise, I don't think Taeja will ever win a premier tournament in Korea, which is a huge shame. One of the effects of joining a foreign team is an emphasis on foreign events, and also means that talent effectively leaves Korea. This could be good and bad, since previously Korea was oversaturated with talent and now the talent is more evenly spread across regions.
The shame is that people think that a foreign event win = GSL win which is very frustrating.
On December 20 2013 02:57 DiMano wrote: All I can say I hate such transfers. Both scenes have lost and there will be no more big wins for Dear.
Why?
Koreans on foreign teams lose their skills so much and never win GSL. I love all korean players but for me players who are on korean teams and practice in team houses are the ones who deserve to win. Korea just loses another good player as they can watch only GSL so it is another big strike to already dying scene The goal of progaming in Korea is lost when such transfers happen. 2 years ago my dream was to visit Korea and visit a team house to feel the true starcraft atmosphere but now the best korean players choose to join a foreign team just for better money and traveling coz there is only 1 league and no money in Korea there is nothing good at it. The dream of young SC players in Korea is now to join a foreing team to get easy money. 2 years ago player would never choose a foreign team over korean one. For me who watches absolutely all korean SC nonstop such transfer and decision to choose foreign team over korean is a straight strike to my heart. I always dreamt to be a 15 year old korean boy who is playing SC and has a dream to join KeSPA team to become a star but now I feel that there will be no more such dreams as minds of korean players have another things. Now they are dreaming to make easy money instead of being the best in the world... Rain's interview made me to remember my old dreams but it was 1 bright in the darkness.
Yeah Taeja really suffered by joining TL, and Jaedong has all but retired thanks to EG.
TaeJa won nothing in Korea as Jaedong did. The foreign events where you always start facing good player from Ro8 does not impress me at all sorry. It is just a good show for people who know nothing about BW leagues and what it take to be a champion and a ton of games with limited amount of good players. Only MC who was on foreign team made to the finals of GSL and 0 players won it but the main thing in my message is another.
Taeja is a 2-time Code S quarter finalist (losing to the eventual champ both times) and a quarter finalist at WCS Season 2.
If you think Taeja has "suffered", you must have a low opinion of most Koreans in the GSL.
I do not understand what you are trying to prove I know everything about TaeJa, he never won GSL he won foreign events but it is not the hardest thing to do and such wins do not impress me at all. He played in SPL he was good but there were 10+ players who were better or had the same stats and he had the negative overall score (Bisu had the same stats as TaeJa) so plz stop using your TaeJa's example.
You have seen what he did in IPL TAC3 right? I think what hinders Taeja a bit is that he doesn't prepare for his opponents, he doesn't live in a team house, he only has 1 other player who is even near his calibre so without being in a team house and a lack of good team mates he doesn't get as good practice other than just mindless laddering. Taeja probably has the most amount of raw talent out of any player imo but I think he is hindered from not having the best practice and the best environment. I do think Liquid helped him a lot but I still think he would've won a GSL or a WCS if he went to a kespa/esf team.
On December 20 2013 02:57 DiMano wrote: All I can say I hate such transfers. Both scenes have lost and there will be no more big wins for Dear.
Why?
Koreans on foreign teams lose their skills so much and never win GSL. I love all korean players but for me players who are on korean teams and practice in team houses are the ones who deserve to win. Korea just loses another good player as they can watch only GSL so it is another big strike to already dying scene The goal of progaming in Korea is lost when such transfers happen. 2 years ago my dream was to visit Korea and visit a team house to feel the true starcraft atmosphere but now the best korean players choose to join a foreign team just for better money and traveling coz there is only 1 league and no money in Korea there is nothing good at it. The dream of young SC players in Korea is now to join a foreing team to get easy money. 2 years ago player would never choose a foreign team over korean one. For me who watches absolutely all korean SC nonstop such transfer and decision to choose foreign team over korean is a straight strike to my heart. I always dreamt to be a 15 year old korean boy who is playing SC and has a dream to join KeSPA team to become a star but now I feel that there will be no more such dreams as minds of korean players have another things. Now they are dreaming to make easy money instead of being the best in the world... Rain's interview made me to remember my old dreams but it was 1 bright in the darkness.
Yeah Taeja really suffered by joining TL, and Jaedong has all but retired thanks to EG.
TaeJa won nothing in Korea as Jaedong did. The foreign events where you always start facing good player from Ro8 does not impress me at all sorry. It is just a good show for people who know nothing about BW leagues and what it take to be a champion and a ton of games with limited amount of good players. Only MC who was on foreign team made to the finals of GSL and 0 players won it but the main thing in my message is another.
Taeja is a 2-time Code S quarter finalist (losing to the eventual champ both times) and a quarter finalist at WCS Season 2.
If you think Taeja has "suffered", you must have a low opinion of most Koreans in the GSL.
Semi-finalist. He made the Ro4 twice, which is very impressive.
Still, while I do believe that Liquid has really helped Taeja career-wise, I don't think Taeja will ever win a premier tournament in Korea, which is a huge shame. One of the effects of joining a foreign team is an emphasis on foreign events, and also means that talent effectively leaves Korea. This could be good and bad, since previously Korea was oversaturated with talent and now the talent is more evenly spread across regions.
The shame is that people think that a foreign event win = GSL win which is very frustrating.
As someone who never gets to watch the GSL live, I do care about it less than other events like dream hack. I know in my mind that it is the harder, more challenging even, but I can't get super hyped about it.
And there is more to the world than just Korea. Dear may win a dreamhack and to the fans at that event it will be amazing. To dear it will be the first time he wins in EU(I think). We will all know that the GSL is the harder event, but at that moment it won't matter.
Korea may be the center of the world SC2, but it doesn't mean that players like Dear don't want to see all EU and NA have to offer.
On December 20 2013 02:57 DiMano wrote: All I can say I hate such transfers. Both scenes have lost and there will be no more big wins for Dear.
Why?
Koreans on foreign teams lose their skills so much and never win GSL. I love all korean players but for me players who are on korean teams and practice in team houses are the ones who deserve to win. Korea just loses another good player as they can watch only GSL so it is another big strike to already dying scene The goal of progaming in Korea is lost when such transfers happen. 2 years ago my dream was to visit Korea and visit a team house to feel the true starcraft atmosphere but now the best korean players choose to join a foreign team just for better money and traveling coz there is only 1 league and no money in Korea there is nothing good at it. The dream of young SC players in Korea is now to join a foreing team to get easy money. 2 years ago player would never choose a foreign team over korean one. For me who watches absolutely all korean SC nonstop such transfer and decision to choose foreign team over korean is a straight strike to my heart. I always dreamt to be a 15 year old korean boy who is playing SC and has a dream to join KeSPA team to become a star but now I feel that there will be no more such dreams as minds of korean players have another things. Now they are dreaming to make easy money instead of being the best in the world... Rain's interview made me to remember my old dreams but it was 1 bright in the darkness.
Yeah Taeja really suffered by joining TL, and Jaedong has all but retired thanks to EG.
TaeJa won nothing in Korea as Jaedong did. The foreign events where you always start facing good player from Ro8 does not impress me at all sorry. It is just a good show for people who know nothing about BW leagues and what it take to be a champion and a ton of games with limited amount of good players. Only MC who was on foreign team made to the finals of GSL and 0 players won it but the main thing in my message is another.
Taeja is a 2-time Code S quarter finalist (losing to the eventual champ both times) and a quarter finalist at WCS Season 2.
If you think Taeja has "suffered", you must have a low opinion of most Koreans in the GSL.
Semi-finalist. He made the Ro4 twice, which is very impressive.
Yeah, I knew that -_-;;. My brain got mixed with I started thinking Ro4 and turned that into quarter finals...
Im loving the moves foreign teams are doing, saturating the teams with korean star players will help the foreign scene grow by a lot. Like with acer, Innovation has prob helped out MMA out a ton and i can see mouz getting even more out of it once dear learns some basic english. Its awesome to see alot of koreans wanting to get into the foreign scene learn english and interact with fans.
On December 20 2013 02:57 DiMano wrote: All I can say I hate such transfers. Both scenes have lost and there will be no more big wins for Dear.
Why?
Koreans on foreign teams lose their skills so much and never win GSL. I love all korean players but for me players who are on korean teams and practice in team houses are the ones who deserve to win. Korea just loses another good player as they can watch only GSL so it is another big strike to already dying scene The goal of progaming in Korea is lost when such transfers happen. 2 years ago my dream was to visit Korea and visit a team house to feel the true starcraft atmosphere but now the best korean players choose to join a foreign team just for better money and traveling coz there is only 1 league and no money in Korea there is nothing good at it. The dream of young SC players in Korea is now to join a foreing team to get easy money. 2 years ago player would never choose a foreign team over korean one. For me who watches absolutely all korean SC nonstop such transfer and decision to choose foreign team over korean is a straight strike to my heart. I always dreamt to be a 15 year old korean boy who is playing SC and has a dream to join KeSPA team to become a star but now I feel that there will be no more such dreams as minds of korean players have another things. Now they are dreaming to make easy money instead of being the best in the world... Rain's interview made me to remember my old dreams but it was 1 bright in the darkness.
Yeah Taeja really suffered by joining TL, and Jaedong has all but retired thanks to EG.
TaeJa won nothing in Korea as Jaedong did. The foreign events where you always start facing good player from Ro8 does not impress me at all sorry. It is just a good show for people who know nothing about BW leagues and what it take to be a champion and a ton of games with limited amount of good players. Only MC who was on foreign team made to the finals of GSL and 0 players won it but the main thing in my message is another.
Taeja is a 2-time Code S quarter finalist (losing to the eventual champ both times) and a quarter finalist at WCS Season 2.
If you think Taeja has "suffered", you must have a low opinion of most Koreans in the GSL.
Semi-finalist. He made the Ro4 twice, which is very impressive.
Still, while I do believe that Liquid has really helped Taeja career-wise, I don't think Taeja will ever win a premier tournament in Korea, which is a huge shame. One of the effects of joining a foreign team is an emphasis on foreign events, and also means that talent effectively leaves Korea. This could be good and bad, since previously Korea was oversaturated with talent and now the talent is more evenly spread across regions.
The shame is that people think that a foreign event win = GSL win which is very frustrating.
I don´t think anyone values a foreign tournament win as high as winning a GSL. People might get more exited about it, but everyone should know, that GSL is still the hardest tournament to win in the world. Someone like Taeja, who won like 6 or 7 foreign tournaments in his career, should be higher valued than Seed, Sniper or RorO for example, but basically as soon as you win your second GSL, you become unreachable for someone, who does´nt win a GSL IMHO.
On December 20 2013 04:41 Plansix wrote: Korea may be the center of the world SC2, but it doesn't mean that players like Dear don't want to see all EU and NA have to offer.
Korea isnt the center of the world in SC2, when you go by viewership and hype, tournaments in EU and NA are way greater, only the skill level has its center in korea
A bit disappointed... he should've joined a good korean team instead. But I guess if he'll attend a lot of foreign tournaments next year, this will be fine, too.
On December 20 2013 02:57 DiMano wrote: All I can say I hate such transfers. Both scenes have lost and there will be no more big wins for Dear.
Why?
Koreans on foreign teams lose their skills so much and never win GSL. I love all korean players but for me players who are on korean teams and practice in team houses are the ones who deserve to win. Korea just loses another good player as they can watch only GSL so it is another big strike to already dying scene The goal of progaming in Korea is lost when such transfers happen. 2 years ago my dream was to visit Korea and visit a team house to feel the true starcraft atmosphere but now the best korean players choose to join a foreign team just for better money and traveling coz there is only 1 league and no money in Korea there is nothing good at it. The dream of young SC players in Korea is now to join a foreing team to get easy money. 2 years ago player would never choose a foreign team over korean one. For me who watches absolutely all korean SC nonstop such transfer and decision to choose foreign team over korean is a straight strike to my heart. I always dreamt to be a 15 year old korean boy who is playing SC and has a dream to join KeSPA team to become a star but now I feel that there will be no more such dreams as minds of korean players have another things. Now they are dreaming to make easy money instead of being the best in the world... Rain's interview made me to remember my old dreams but it was 1 bright in the darkness.
Yeah Taeja really suffered by joining TL, and Jaedong has all but retired thanks to EG.
TaeJa won nothing in Korea as Jaedong did. The foreign events where you always start facing good player from Ro8 does not impress me at all sorry. It is just a good show for people who know nothing about BW leagues and what it take to be a champion and a ton of games with limited amount of good players. Only MC who was on foreign team made to the finals of GSL and 0 players won it but the main thing in my message is another.
Taeja is a 2-time Code S quarter finalist (losing to the eventual champ both times) and a quarter finalist at WCS Season 2.
If you think Taeja has "suffered", you must have a low opinion of most Koreans in the GSL.
Semi-finalist. He made the Ro4 twice, which is very impressive.
Still, while I do believe that Liquid has really helped Taeja career-wise, I don't think Taeja will ever win a premier tournament in Korea, which is a huge shame. One of the effects of joining a foreign team is an emphasis on foreign events, and also means that talent effectively leaves Korea. This could be good and bad, since previously Korea was oversaturated with talent and now the talent is more evenly spread across regions.
The shame is that people think that a foreign event win = GSL win which is very frustrating.
I don´t think anyone values a foreign tournament win as high as winning a GSL. People might get more exited about it, but everyone should know, that GSL is still the hardest tournament to win in the world. Someone like Taeja, who won like 6 or 7 foreign tournaments in his career, should be higher valued than Seed, Sniper or RorO for example, but basically as soon as you win your second GSL, you become unreachable for someone, who does´nt win a GSL IMHO.
On December 20 2013 02:57 DiMano wrote: All I can say I hate such transfers. Both scenes have lost and there will be no more big wins for Dear.
Why?
Koreans on foreign teams lose their skills so much and never win GSL. I love all korean players but for me players who are on korean teams and practice in team houses are the ones who deserve to win. Korea just loses another good player as they can watch only GSL so it is another big strike to already dying scene The goal of progaming in Korea is lost when such transfers happen. 2 years ago my dream was to visit Korea and visit a team house to feel the true starcraft atmosphere but now the best korean players choose to join a foreign team just for better money and traveling coz there is only 1 league and no money in Korea there is nothing good at it. The dream of young SC players in Korea is now to join a foreing team to get easy money. 2 years ago player would never choose a foreign team over korean one. For me who watches absolutely all korean SC nonstop such transfer and decision to choose foreign team over korean is a straight strike to my heart. I always dreamt to be a 15 year old korean boy who is playing SC and has a dream to join KeSPA team to become a star but now I feel that there will be no more such dreams as minds of korean players have another things. Now they are dreaming to make easy money instead of being the best in the world... Rain's interview made me to remember my old dreams but it was 1 bright in the darkness.
Yeah Taeja really suffered by joining TL, and Jaedong has all but retired thanks to EG.
TaeJa won nothing in Korea as Jaedong did. The foreign events where you always start facing good player from Ro8 does not impress me at all sorry. It is just a good show for people who know nothing about BW leagues and what it take to be a champion and a ton of games with limited amount of good players. Only MC who was on foreign team made to the finals of GSL and 0 players won it but the main thing in my message is another.
Taeja is a 2-time Code S quarter finalist (losing to the eventual champ both times) and a quarter finalist at WCS Season 2.
If you think Taeja has "suffered", you must have a low opinion of most Koreans in the GSL.
Semi-finalist. He made the Ro4 twice, which is very impressive.
Still, while I do believe that Liquid has really helped Taeja career-wise, I don't think Taeja will ever win a premier tournament in Korea, which is a huge shame. One of the effects of joining a foreign team is an emphasis on foreign events, and also means that talent effectively leaves Korea. This could be good and bad, since previously Korea was oversaturated with talent and now the talent is more evenly spread across regions.
The shame is that people think that a foreign event win = GSL win which is very frustrating.
As someone who never gets to watch the GSL live, I do care about it less than other events like dream hack. I know in my mind that it is the harder, more challenging even, but I can't get super hyped about it.
And there is more to the world than just Korea. Dear may win a dreamhack and to the fans at that event it will be amazing. To dear it will be the first time he wins in EU(I think). We will all know that the GSL is the harder event, but at that moment it won't matter.
Korea may be the center of the world SC2, but it doesn't mean that players like Dear don't want to see all EU and NA have to offer.
I may write it wrong I mean that 1-2 years ago you would never miss MSL, GSL or OSL finals but now people see that their fav players like Jaedong, TaeJa, Mvp and Polt choose not to play in GSL and this makes this event look less prestigious for a lot of people and they just do not watch it.
With such trends to leave korean teams I do not see how korean starcraft can come back to its prime. Koreans seem to not watch GSL you seem to watch 1-2 days events and given this situation I just can not see the bright future of GSL. For me this IEM and DH are just a set of showmatches and in GSL we can see the true skill with 1-2 week preparation it is just me and my frustration which seems to never end given the currant situation with SC in Korea though.
What DiMano is basically saying is, that foreign tournaments are inferior to Korean ones and players focusing on foreing events inevitably lead to them focusing less on Korea, which I can agree upon. Also that foreign tournaments are regarded too high in community, while Korean are regarded less than they deserve. Which is also true, cause somebody countering his 'Taeja in Proleague' argument with 'Taeja in IPL TAC 3' is laughable.
On the other hand, for the players themselves it is a correct decision - the fans and the money are just not there in Korea, unfortunately. They have shifted towards LoL and we will see, maybe even SSL9 will have better fan support live then Proleague or GSL. All the while in Europe and (to a lesser extent) in NA, the fans are hungry for more good SC2, so players want to give it to them.
I just hope, that in the end this will shift, fans will come in high (or at least higher) numbers to Korean tournaments, new KR tournaments will be created (while the old ones like Proleague will continue unhindered), more money pumped into the scene by sponsors and the most important thing, KR scene will unify and the bullshit with eSF vs Kespa and Proleague vs GSTL will just end (yes, I still think Korean scene is kinda shooting itself into the foot all the time with stupid decisions and eSF vs Kespa bullshit).
In the end though, all of it is on Blizzard, they 'just' need to create a game that Korean kids will want to play in PC Bangs with their friends
On December 20 2013 04:41 Plansix wrote: Korea may be the center of the world SC2, but it doesn't mean that players like Dear don't want to see all EU and NA have to offer.
Korea isnt the center of the world in SC2, when you go by viewership and hype, tournaments in EU and NA are way greater, only the skill level has its center in korea
I would agree with you, but some folks see Korea as the nexus of SC2. But that doesn't stop the rest of the world from being really dope. It's filled with reasons to visit places that are not Korea. Like the food, beer, wine, ladies, sights, animals, ladies, landmarks and the local music.
On December 20 2013 05:04 Ammanas wrote: What DiMano is basically saying is, that foreign tournaments are inferior to Korean ones and players focusing on foreing events inevitably lead to them focusing less on Korea, which I can agree upon. Also that foreign tournaments are regarded too high in community, while Korean are regarded less than they deserve. Which is also true, cause somebody countering his 'Taeja in Proleague' argument with 'Taeja in IPL TAC 3' is laughable.
On the other hand, for the players themselves it is a correct decision - the fans and the money are just not there in Korea, unfortunately. They have shifted towards LoL and we will see, maybe even SSL9 will have better fan support live then Proleague or GSL. All the while in Europe and (to a lesser extent) in NA, the fans are hungry for more good SC2, so players want to give it to them.
I just hope, that in the end this will shift, fans will come in high (or at least higher) numbers to Korean tournaments, new KR tournaments will be created (while the old ones like Proleague will continue unhindered), more money pumped into the scene by sponsors and the most important thing, KR scene will unify and the bullshit with eSF vs Kespa and Proleague vs GSTL will just end (yes, I still think Korean scene is kinda shooting itself into the foot all the time with stupid decisions and eSF vs Kespa bullshit).
In the end though, all of it is on Blizzard, they 'just' need to create a game that Korean kids will want to play in PC Bangs with their friends
Agreed with everything but my biggest worry that the 3rd part of your answer will never come true I really want to see it I dream about it everyday I want to see news about it when I visit TL but I just do not see it with the currant events DH and IEM are extremely instresting and fun to watch but they mean absolutely nothing for me compare to SPL and GSL. herO won IEM and my thought is finally his skills paid off as he was always good in SPL and had bad luck with individual events now people know him and they will follow him in SPL and GSL where he will have to do his absolute best to win.
On December 20 2013 02:57 DiMano wrote: All I can say I hate such transfers. Both scenes have lost and there will be no more big wins for Dear.
Why?
Koreans on foreign teams lose their skills so much and never win GSL. I love all korean players but for me players who are on korean teams and practice in team houses are the ones who deserve to win. Korea just loses another good player as they can watch only GSL so it is another big strike to already dying scene The goal of progaming in Korea is lost when such transfers happen. 2 years ago my dream was to visit Korea and visit a team house to feel the true starcraft atmosphere but now the best korean players choose to join a foreign team just for better money and traveling coz there is only 1 league and no money in Korea there is nothing good at it. The dream of young SC players in Korea is now to join a foreing team to get easy money. 2 years ago player would never choose a foreign team over korean one. For me who watches absolutely all korean SC nonstop such transfer and decision to choose foreign team over korean is a straight strike to my heart. I always dreamt to be a 15 year old korean boy who is playing SC and has a dream to join KeSPA team to become a star but now I feel that there will be no more such dreams as minds of korean players have another things. Now they are dreaming to make easy money instead of being the best in the world... Rain's interview made me to remember my old dreams but it was 1 bright in the darkness.
Yeah Taeja really suffered by joining TL, and Jaedong has all but retired thanks to EG.
TaeJa won nothing in Korea as Jaedong did. The foreign events where you always start facing good player from Ro8 does not impress me at all sorry. It is just a good show for people who know nothing about BW leagues and what it take to be a champion and a ton of games with limited amount of good players. Only MC who was on foreign team made to the finals of GSL and 0 players won it but the main thing in my message is another.
Taeja is a 2-time Code S quarter finalist (losing to the eventual champ both times) and a quarter finalist at WCS Season 2.
If you think Taeja has "suffered", you must have a low opinion of most Koreans in the GSL.
Semi-finalist. He made the Ro4 twice, which is very impressive.
Still, while I do believe that Liquid has really helped Taeja career-wise, I don't think Taeja will ever win a premier tournament in Korea, which is a huge shame. One of the effects of joining a foreign team is an emphasis on foreign events, and also means that talent effectively leaves Korea. This could be good and bad, since previously Korea was oversaturated with talent and now the talent is more evenly spread across regions.
The shame is that people think that a foreign event win = GSL win which is very frustrating.
I'm pretty sure almost nobody thinks this.
Nobody does, but who does well in GSL beyond the winner is irrelevant now.
On December 20 2013 02:57 DiMano wrote: All I can say I hate such transfers. Both scenes have lost and there will be no more big wins for Dear.
Why?
Koreans on foreign teams lose their skills so much and never win GSL. I love all korean players but for me players who are on korean teams and practice in team houses are the ones who deserve to win. Korea just loses another good player as they can watch only GSL so it is another big strike to already dying scene The goal of progaming in Korea is lost when such transfers happen. 2 years ago my dream was to visit Korea and visit a team house to feel the true starcraft atmosphere but now the best korean players choose to join a foreign team just for better money and traveling coz there is only 1 league and no money in Korea there is nothing good at it. The dream of young SC players in Korea is now to join a foreing team to get easy money. 2 years ago player would never choose a foreign team over korean one. For me who watches absolutely all korean SC nonstop such transfer and decision to choose foreign team over korean is a straight strike to my heart. I always dreamt to be a 15 year old korean boy who is playing SC and has a dream to join KeSPA team to become a star but now I feel that there will be no more such dreams as minds of korean players have another things. Now they are dreaming to make easy money instead of being the best in the world... Rain's interview made me to remember my old dreams but it was 1 bright in the darkness.
Yeah Taeja really suffered by joining TL, and Jaedong has all but retired thanks to EG.
TaeJa won nothing in Korea as Jaedong did. The foreign events where you always start facing good player from Ro8 does not impress me at all sorry. It is just a good show for people who know nothing about BW leagues and what it take to be a champion and a ton of games with limited amount of good players. Only MC who was on foreign team made to the finals of GSL and 0 players won it but the main thing in my message is another.
Taeja is a 2-time Code S quarter finalist (losing to the eventual champ both times) and a quarter finalist at WCS Season 2.
If you think Taeja has "suffered", you must have a low opinion of most Koreans in the GSL.
Semi-finalist. He made the Ro4 twice, which is very impressive.
Still, while I do believe that Liquid has really helped Taeja career-wise, I don't think Taeja will ever win a premier tournament in Korea, which is a huge shame. One of the effects of joining a foreign team is an emphasis on foreign events, and also means that talent effectively leaves Korea. This could be good and bad, since previously Korea was oversaturated with talent and now the talent is more evenly spread across regions.
The shame is that people think that a foreign event win = GSL win which is very frustrating.
I'm pretty sure almost nobody thinks this.
Nobody does, but who does well in GSL beyond the winner is irrelevant now.
Yeah, Innovation vs. Soulkey, Rain vs. Maru in WCS Korea, who cares about those non-winners right? Why does Soulkey's consistency matter at all if the only thing that matters is the #1 spot? Give me a break.
On December 20 2013 03:06 Zealously wrote: [quote] Why?
Koreans on foreign teams lose their skills so much and never win GSL. I love all korean players but for me players who are on korean teams and practice in team houses are the ones who deserve to win. Korea just loses another good player as they can watch only GSL so it is another big strike to already dying scene The goal of progaming in Korea is lost when such transfers happen. 2 years ago my dream was to visit Korea and visit a team house to feel the true starcraft atmosphere but now the best korean players choose to join a foreign team just for better money and traveling coz there is only 1 league and no money in Korea there is nothing good at it. The dream of young SC players in Korea is now to join a foreing team to get easy money. 2 years ago player would never choose a foreign team over korean one. For me who watches absolutely all korean SC nonstop such transfer and decision to choose foreign team over korean is a straight strike to my heart. I always dreamt to be a 15 year old korean boy who is playing SC and has a dream to join KeSPA team to become a star but now I feel that there will be no more such dreams as minds of korean players have another things. Now they are dreaming to make easy money instead of being the best in the world... Rain's interview made me to remember my old dreams but it was 1 bright in the darkness.
Yeah Taeja really suffered by joining TL, and Jaedong has all but retired thanks to EG.
TaeJa won nothing in Korea as Jaedong did. The foreign events where you always start facing good player from Ro8 does not impress me at all sorry. It is just a good show for people who know nothing about BW leagues and what it take to be a champion and a ton of games with limited amount of good players. Only MC who was on foreign team made to the finals of GSL and 0 players won it but the main thing in my message is another.
Taeja is a 2-time Code S quarter finalist (losing to the eventual champ both times) and a quarter finalist at WCS Season 2.
If you think Taeja has "suffered", you must have a low opinion of most Koreans in the GSL.
Semi-finalist. He made the Ro4 twice, which is very impressive.
Still, while I do believe that Liquid has really helped Taeja career-wise, I don't think Taeja will ever win a premier tournament in Korea, which is a huge shame. One of the effects of joining a foreign team is an emphasis on foreign events, and also means that talent effectively leaves Korea. This could be good and bad, since previously Korea was oversaturated with talent and now the talent is more evenly spread across regions.
The shame is that people think that a foreign event win = GSL win which is very frustrating.
I'm pretty sure almost nobody thinks this.
Nobody does, but who does well in GSL beyond the winner is irrelevant now.
Yeah, Innovation vs. Soulkey, Rain vs. Maru in WCS Korea, who cares about those non-winners right? Why does Soulkey's consistency matter at all if the only thing that matters is the #1 spot? Give me a break.
Special cases where even the runner-ups went on to win something else. Could you, honestly, name all the semifinalists this year without bringing up Liquipedia, including the ones that didn't have remarkable success outside WCS KR? He's saying that "GSL semifinalist" means less now than it used to, which is true. At least, that's how I'm interpreting it.
On December 20 2013 03:47 DiMano wrote: [quote] Koreans on foreign teams lose their skills so much and never win GSL. I love all korean players but for me players who are on korean teams and practice in team houses are the ones who deserve to win. Korea just loses another good player as they can watch only GSL so it is another big strike to already dying scene The goal of progaming in Korea is lost when such transfers happen. 2 years ago my dream was to visit Korea and visit a team house to feel the true starcraft atmosphere but now the best korean players choose to join a foreign team just for better money and traveling coz there is only 1 league and no money in Korea there is nothing good at it. The dream of young SC players in Korea is now to join a foreing team to get easy money. 2 years ago player would never choose a foreign team over korean one. For me who watches absolutely all korean SC nonstop such transfer and decision to choose foreign team over korean is a straight strike to my heart. I always dreamt to be a 15 year old korean boy who is playing SC and has a dream to join KeSPA team to become a star but now I feel that there will be no more such dreams as minds of korean players have another things. Now they are dreaming to make easy money instead of being the best in the world... Rain's interview made me to remember my old dreams but it was 1 bright in the darkness.
Yeah Taeja really suffered by joining TL, and Jaedong has all but retired thanks to EG.
TaeJa won nothing in Korea as Jaedong did. The foreign events where you always start facing good player from Ro8 does not impress me at all sorry. It is just a good show for people who know nothing about BW leagues and what it take to be a champion and a ton of games with limited amount of good players. Only MC who was on foreign team made to the finals of GSL and 0 players won it but the main thing in my message is another.
Taeja is a 2-time Code S quarter finalist (losing to the eventual champ both times) and a quarter finalist at WCS Season 2.
If you think Taeja has "suffered", you must have a low opinion of most Koreans in the GSL.
Semi-finalist. He made the Ro4 twice, which is very impressive.
Still, while I do believe that Liquid has really helped Taeja career-wise, I don't think Taeja will ever win a premier tournament in Korea, which is a huge shame. One of the effects of joining a foreign team is an emphasis on foreign events, and also means that talent effectively leaves Korea. This could be good and bad, since previously Korea was oversaturated with talent and now the talent is more evenly spread across regions.
The shame is that people think that a foreign event win = GSL win which is very frustrating.
I'm pretty sure almost nobody thinks this.
Nobody does, but who does well in GSL beyond the winner is irrelevant now.
Yeah, Innovation vs. Soulkey, Rain vs. Maru in WCS Korea, who cares about those non-winners right? Why does Soulkey's consistency matter at all if the only thing that matters is the #1 spot? Give me a break.
Special cases where even the runner-ups went on to win something else. Could you, honestly, name all the semifinalists this year without bringing up Liquipedia, including the ones that didn't have remarkable success outside WCS KR? He's saying that "GSL semifinalist" means less now than it used to, which is true. At least, that's how I'm interpreting it.
Well seeing as I only really watch Korea, I might be the wrong person to ask. I haven't missed a single Code S/WCS KR game all year. The level of competition is just too high to pass up.
Why would being a GSL semifinalist be less meaningful now that there are only three per year? I'm not saying you're wrong, it just seems counter-intuitive.
edit: that's not true. I didn't watch Roro vs. Symbol out of spite.
On December 20 2013 03:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: [quote]
Yeah Taeja really suffered by joining TL, and Jaedong has all but retired thanks to EG.
TaeJa won nothing in Korea as Jaedong did. The foreign events where you always start facing good player from Ro8 does not impress me at all sorry. It is just a good show for people who know nothing about BW leagues and what it take to be a champion and a ton of games with limited amount of good players. Only MC who was on foreign team made to the finals of GSL and 0 players won it but the main thing in my message is another.
Taeja is a 2-time Code S quarter finalist (losing to the eventual champ both times) and a quarter finalist at WCS Season 2.
If you think Taeja has "suffered", you must have a low opinion of most Koreans in the GSL.
Semi-finalist. He made the Ro4 twice, which is very impressive.
Still, while I do believe that Liquid has really helped Taeja career-wise, I don't think Taeja will ever win a premier tournament in Korea, which is a huge shame. One of the effects of joining a foreign team is an emphasis on foreign events, and also means that talent effectively leaves Korea. This could be good and bad, since previously Korea was oversaturated with talent and now the talent is more evenly spread across regions.
The shame is that people think that a foreign event win = GSL win which is very frustrating.
I'm pretty sure almost nobody thinks this.
Nobody does, but who does well in GSL beyond the winner is irrelevant now.
Yeah, Innovation vs. Soulkey, Rain vs. Maru in WCS Korea, who cares about those non-winners right? Why does Soulkey's consistency matter at all if the only thing that matters is the #1 spot? Give me a break.
Special cases where even the runner-ups went on to win something else. Could you, honestly, name all the semifinalists this year without bringing up Liquipedia, including the ones that didn't have remarkable success outside WCS KR? He's saying that "GSL semifinalist" means less now than it used to, which is true. At least, that's how I'm interpreting it.
Well seeing as I only really watch Korea, I might be the wrong person to ask. I haven't missed a single Code S/WCS KR game all year. The level of competition is just too high to pass up.
Why would being a GSL semifinalist be less meaningful now that there are only three per year? I'm not saying you're wrong, it just seems counter-intuitive.
It's not about it necessarily being less meaningful (though it is, slightly, since a number of previous top contenders left the region in 2013), it's about it receiving less attention. "GSL semifinalist" just doesn't mean as much now as it would have 18 months ago. It doesn't matter if it's logical or not, that's how it is. The Season finals are mostly to blame for this, I feel.
On December 20 2013 03:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: [quote]
Yeah Taeja really suffered by joining TL, and Jaedong has all but retired thanks to EG.
TaeJa won nothing in Korea as Jaedong did. The foreign events where you always start facing good player from Ro8 does not impress me at all sorry. It is just a good show for people who know nothing about BW leagues and what it take to be a champion and a ton of games with limited amount of good players. Only MC who was on foreign team made to the finals of GSL and 0 players won it but the main thing in my message is another.
Taeja is a 2-time Code S quarter finalist (losing to the eventual champ both times) and a quarter finalist at WCS Season 2.
If you think Taeja has "suffered", you must have a low opinion of most Koreans in the GSL.
Semi-finalist. He made the Ro4 twice, which is very impressive.
Still, while I do believe that Liquid has really helped Taeja career-wise, I don't think Taeja will ever win a premier tournament in Korea, which is a huge shame. One of the effects of joining a foreign team is an emphasis on foreign events, and also means that talent effectively leaves Korea. This could be good and bad, since previously Korea was oversaturated with talent and now the talent is more evenly spread across regions.
The shame is that people think that a foreign event win = GSL win which is very frustrating.
I'm pretty sure almost nobody thinks this.
Nobody does, but who does well in GSL beyond the winner is irrelevant now.
Yeah, Innovation vs. Soulkey, Rain vs. Maru in WCS Korea, who cares about those non-winners right? Why does Soulkey's consistency matter at all if the only thing that matters is the #1 spot? Give me a break.
Special cases where even the runner-ups went on to win something else. Could you, honestly, name all the semifinalists this year without bringing up Liquipedia, including the ones that didn't have remarkable success outside WCS KR? He's saying that "GSL semifinalist" means less now than it used to, which is true. At least, that's how I'm interpreting it.
Well seeing as I only really watch Korea, I might be the wrong person to ask. I haven't missed a single Code S/WCS KR game all year. The level of competition is just too high to pass up.
Why would being a GSL semifinalist be less meaningful now that there are only three per year? I'm not saying you're wrong, it just seems counter-intuitive.
edit: that's not true. I didn't watch Roro vs. Symbol out of spite.
Yea... naming all GSL and WCS semi finalist of the year is easy. None of them are actually irrevelent, even if some of them are well know for the wrong reason (hi Roro :D). Most of them are still considered as some of the best players in the world: TaeJa, Soulkey, Bogus, sOs, Maru, Rain, Bomber, Dear... the only exception are Curious, Roro, Symbol and maybe soO.
Edit:
On December 20 2013 06:47 Zealously wrote: It's not about it necessarily being less meaningful (though it is, slightly, since a number of previous top contenders left the region in 2013), it's about it receiving less attention. "GSL semifinalist" just doesn't mean as much now as it would have 18 months ago. It doesn't matter if it's logical or not, that's how it is. The Season finals are mostly to blame for this, I feel.
It's true, and by removing season finales, WCS 2014 shall fix this!
On December 20 2013 04:00 DiMano wrote: [quote] TaeJa won nothing in Korea as Jaedong did. The foreign events where you always start facing good player from Ro8 does not impress me at all sorry. It is just a good show for people who know nothing about BW leagues and what it take to be a champion and a ton of games with limited amount of good players. Only MC who was on foreign team made to the finals of GSL and 0 players won it but the main thing in my message is another.
Taeja is a 2-time Code S quarter finalist (losing to the eventual champ both times) and a quarter finalist at WCS Season 2.
If you think Taeja has "suffered", you must have a low opinion of most Koreans in the GSL.
Semi-finalist. He made the Ro4 twice, which is very impressive.
Still, while I do believe that Liquid has really helped Taeja career-wise, I don't think Taeja will ever win a premier tournament in Korea, which is a huge shame. One of the effects of joining a foreign team is an emphasis on foreign events, and also means that talent effectively leaves Korea. This could be good and bad, since previously Korea was oversaturated with talent and now the talent is more evenly spread across regions.
The shame is that people think that a foreign event win = GSL win which is very frustrating.
I'm pretty sure almost nobody thinks this.
Nobody does, but who does well in GSL beyond the winner is irrelevant now.
Yeah, Innovation vs. Soulkey, Rain vs. Maru in WCS Korea, who cares about those non-winners right? Why does Soulkey's consistency matter at all if the only thing that matters is the #1 spot? Give me a break.
Special cases where even the runner-ups went on to win something else. Could you, honestly, name all the semifinalists this year without bringing up Liquipedia, including the ones that didn't have remarkable success outside WCS KR? He's saying that "GSL semifinalist" means less now than it used to, which is true. At least, that's how I'm interpreting it.
Well seeing as I only really watch Korea, I might be the wrong person to ask. I haven't missed a single Code S/WCS KR game all year. The level of competition is just too high to pass up.
Why would being a GSL semifinalist be less meaningful now that there are only three per year? I'm not saying you're wrong, it just seems counter-intuitive.
edit: that's not true. I didn't watch Roro vs. Symbol out of spite.
Yea... naming all GSL and WCS semi finalist of the year is easy. None of them are actually irrevelent, even if some of them are well know for the wrong reason (hi Roro :D). Most of them are still considered as some of the best players in the world: TaeJa, Soulkey, Bogus, sOs, Maru, Rain, Bomber, Dear... the only exception are Curious, Roro, Symbol and maybe soO.
On December 20 2013 06:47 Zealously wrote: It's not about it necessarily being less meaningful (though it is, slightly, since a number of previous top contenders left the region in 2013), it's about it receiving less attention. "GSL semifinalist" just doesn't mean as much now as it would have 18 months ago. It doesn't matter if it's logical or not, that's how it is. The Season finals are mostly to blame for this, I feel.
It's true, and by removing season finales, WCS 2014 shall fix this!
I would actually disagree about Symbol, recent results notwithstanding. His run in season 2 was so impressive, relying on none of the WOL zerg trickery, but powerful Roach/Baneling timings and Nydus worms and strong aggressive play. I think Symbol's definitely proven that he has the potential to stick around with meaningful results.
On December 20 2013 02:57 DiMano wrote: All I can say I hate such transfers. Both scenes have lost and there will be no more big wins for Dear.
Why?
Koreans on foreign teams lose their skills so much and never win GSL. I love all korean players but for me players who are on korean teams and practice in team houses are the ones who deserve to win. Korea just loses another good player as they can watch only GSL so it is another big strike to already dying scene The goal of progaming in Korea is lost when such transfers happen. 2 years ago my dream was to visit Korea and visit a team house to feel the true starcraft atmosphere but now the best korean players choose to join a foreign team just for better money and traveling coz there is only 1 league and no money in Korea there is nothing good at it. The dream of young SC players in Korea is now to join a foreing team to get easy money. 2 years ago player would never choose a foreign team over korean one. For me who watches absolutely all korean SC nonstop such transfer and decision to choose foreign team over korean is a straight strike to my heart. I always dreamt to be a 15 year old korean boy who is playing SC and has a dream to join KeSPA team to become a star but now I feel that there will be no more such dreams as minds of korean players have another things. Now they are dreaming to make easy money instead of being the best in the world... Rain's interview made me to remember my old dreams but it was 1 bright in the darkness.
Yeah Taeja really suffered by joining TL, and Jaedong has all but retired thanks to EG.
TaeJa won nothing in Korea as Jaedong did. The foreign events where you always start facing good player from Ro8 does not impress me at all sorry. It is just a good show for people who know nothing about BW leagues and what it take to be a champion and a ton of games with limited amount of good players. Only MC who was on foreign team made to the finals of GSL and 0 players won it but the main thing in my message is another.
Taeja is a 2-time Code S quarter finalist (losing to the eventual champ both times) and a quarter finalist at WCS Season 2.
If you think Taeja has "suffered", you must have a low opinion of most Koreans in the GSL.
Semi-finalist. He made the Ro4 twice, which is very impressive.
Still, while I do believe that Liquid has really helped Taeja career-wise, I don't think Taeja will ever win a premier tournament in Korea, which is a huge shame. One of the effects of joining a foreign team is an emphasis on foreign events, and also means that talent effectively leaves Korea. This could be good and bad, since previously Korea was oversaturated with talent and now the talent is more evenly spread across regions.
The shame is that people think that a foreign event win = GSL win which is very frustrating.
I'm pretty sure almost nobody thinks this.
Nobody does, but who does well in GSL beyond the winner is irrelevant now.
I wouldn't say irrelevant, but yeah that's a fair point.
On December 20 2013 04:09 WolfintheSheep wrote: [quote]
Taeja is a 2-time Code S quarter finalist (losing to the eventual champ both times) and a quarter finalist at WCS Season 2.
If you think Taeja has "suffered", you must have a low opinion of most Koreans in the GSL.
Semi-finalist. He made the Ro4 twice, which is very impressive.
Still, while I do believe that Liquid has really helped Taeja career-wise, I don't think Taeja will ever win a premier tournament in Korea, which is a huge shame. One of the effects of joining a foreign team is an emphasis on foreign events, and also means that talent effectively leaves Korea. This could be good and bad, since previously Korea was oversaturated with talent and now the talent is more evenly spread across regions.
The shame is that people think that a foreign event win = GSL win which is very frustrating.
I'm pretty sure almost nobody thinks this.
Nobody does, but who does well in GSL beyond the winner is irrelevant now.
Yeah, Innovation vs. Soulkey, Rain vs. Maru in WCS Korea, who cares about those non-winners right? Why does Soulkey's consistency matter at all if the only thing that matters is the #1 spot? Give me a break.
Special cases where even the runner-ups went on to win something else. Could you, honestly, name all the semifinalists this year without bringing up Liquipedia, including the ones that didn't have remarkable success outside WCS KR? He's saying that "GSL semifinalist" means less now than it used to, which is true. At least, that's how I'm interpreting it.
Well seeing as I only really watch Korea, I might be the wrong person to ask. I haven't missed a single Code S/WCS KR game all year. The level of competition is just too high to pass up.
Why would being a GSL semifinalist be less meaningful now that there are only three per year? I'm not saying you're wrong, it just seems counter-intuitive.
edit: that's not true. I didn't watch Roro vs. Symbol out of spite.
Yea... naming all GSL and WCS semi finalist of the year is easy. None of them are actually irrevelent, even if some of them are well know for the wrong reason (hi Roro :D). Most of them are still considered as some of the best players in the world: TaeJa, Soulkey, Bogus, sOs, Maru, Rain, Bomber, Dear... the only exception are Curious, Roro, Symbol and maybe soO.
Edit:
On December 20 2013 06:47 Zealously wrote: It's not about it necessarily being less meaningful (though it is, slightly, since a number of previous top contenders left the region in 2013), it's about it receiving less attention. "GSL semifinalist" just doesn't mean as much now as it would have 18 months ago. It doesn't matter if it's logical or not, that's how it is. The Season finals are mostly to blame for this, I feel.
It's true, and by removing season finales, WCS 2014 shall fix this!
I would actually disagree about Symbol, recent results notwithstanding. His run in season 2 was so impressive, relying on none of the WOL zerg trickery, but powerful Roach/Baneling timings and Nydus worms and strong aggressive play. I think Symbol's definitely proven that he has the potential to stick around with meaningful results.
I do agree that Symbol did very well in S2 and that he was one of the best Zerg in the world back then (I really like him since I saw him live at Ironsquid S1 finale), but currently, he isn't considered as one of the best player in the world.
On December 20 2013 04:18 Bagration wrote: [quote]
Semi-finalist. He made the Ro4 twice, which is very impressive.
Still, while I do believe that Liquid has really helped Taeja career-wise, I don't think Taeja will ever win a premier tournament in Korea, which is a huge shame. One of the effects of joining a foreign team is an emphasis on foreign events, and also means that talent effectively leaves Korea. This could be good and bad, since previously Korea was oversaturated with talent and now the talent is more evenly spread across regions.
The shame is that people think that a foreign event win = GSL win which is very frustrating.
I'm pretty sure almost nobody thinks this.
Nobody does, but who does well in GSL beyond the winner is irrelevant now.
Yeah, Innovation vs. Soulkey, Rain vs. Maru in WCS Korea, who cares about those non-winners right? Why does Soulkey's consistency matter at all if the only thing that matters is the #1 spot? Give me a break.
Special cases where even the runner-ups went on to win something else. Could you, honestly, name all the semifinalists this year without bringing up Liquipedia, including the ones that didn't have remarkable success outside WCS KR? He's saying that "GSL semifinalist" means less now than it used to, which is true. At least, that's how I'm interpreting it.
Well seeing as I only really watch Korea, I might be the wrong person to ask. I haven't missed a single Code S/WCS KR game all year. The level of competition is just too high to pass up.
Why would being a GSL semifinalist be less meaningful now that there are only three per year? I'm not saying you're wrong, it just seems counter-intuitive.
edit: that's not true. I didn't watch Roro vs. Symbol out of spite.
Yea... naming all GSL and WCS semi finalist of the year is easy. None of them are actually irrevelent, even if some of them are well know for the wrong reason (hi Roro :D). Most of them are still considered as some of the best players in the world: TaeJa, Soulkey, Bogus, sOs, Maru, Rain, Bomber, Dear... the only exception are Curious, Roro, Symbol and maybe soO.
Edit:
On December 20 2013 06:47 Zealously wrote: It's not about it necessarily being less meaningful (though it is, slightly, since a number of previous top contenders left the region in 2013), it's about it receiving less attention. "GSL semifinalist" just doesn't mean as much now as it would have 18 months ago. It doesn't matter if it's logical or not, that's how it is. The Season finals are mostly to blame for this, I feel.
It's true, and by removing season finales, WCS 2014 shall fix this!
I would actually disagree about Symbol, recent results notwithstanding. His run in season 2 was so impressive, relying on none of the WOL zerg trickery, but powerful Roach/Baneling timings and Nydus worms and strong aggressive play. I think Symbol's definitely proven that he has the potential to stick around with meaningful results.
I do agree that Symbol did very well in S2 and that he was one of the best Zerg in the world back then (I really like him since I saw him live at Ironsquid S1 finale), but currently, he isn't considered as one of the best player in the world.
On December 20 2013 04:00 DiMano wrote: [quote] TaeJa won nothing in Korea as Jaedong did. The foreign events where you always start facing good player from Ro8 does not impress me at all sorry. It is just a good show for people who know nothing about BW leagues and what it take to be a champion and a ton of games with limited amount of good players. Only MC who was on foreign team made to the finals of GSL and 0 players won it but the main thing in my message is another.
Taeja is a 2-time Code S quarter finalist (losing to the eventual champ both times) and a quarter finalist at WCS Season 2.
If you think Taeja has "suffered", you must have a low opinion of most Koreans in the GSL.
Semi-finalist. He made the Ro4 twice, which is very impressive.
Still, while I do believe that Liquid has really helped Taeja career-wise, I don't think Taeja will ever win a premier tournament in Korea, which is a huge shame. One of the effects of joining a foreign team is an emphasis on foreign events, and also means that talent effectively leaves Korea. This could be good and bad, since previously Korea was oversaturated with talent and now the talent is more evenly spread across regions.
The shame is that people think that a foreign event win = GSL win which is very frustrating.
I'm pretty sure almost nobody thinks this.
Nobody does, but who does well in GSL beyond the winner is irrelevant now.
Yeah, Innovation vs. Soulkey, Rain vs. Maru in WCS Korea, who cares about those non-winners right? Why does Soulkey's consistency matter at all if the only thing that matters is the #1 spot? Give me a break.
Special cases where even the runner-ups went on to win something else. Could you, honestly, name all the semifinalists this year without bringing up Liquipedia, including the ones that didn't have remarkable success outside WCS KR? He's saying that "GSL semifinalist" means less now than it used to, which is true. At least, that's how I'm interpreting it.
Well seeing as I only really watch Korea, I might be the wrong person to ask. I haven't missed a single Code S/WCS KR game all year. The level of competition is just too high to pass up.
Why would being a GSL semifinalist be less meaningful now that there are only three per year? I'm not saying you're wrong, it just seems counter-intuitive.
It's not about it necessarily being less meaningful (though it is, slightly, since a number of previous top contenders left the region in 2013), it's about it receiving less attention. "GSL semifinalist" just doesn't mean as much now as it would have 18 months ago. It doesn't matter if it's logical or not, that's how it is. The Season finals are mostly to blame for this, I feel.
Let's not kid ourselves...It barely meant anything before. People might remember Leenock and Innovation because those were big upsets to fan favourites, and they'll probably remember MKP for always being second place. Does anyone really remember InCa, Rainbow, TOP or HyuN?
On December 20 2013 04:09 WolfintheSheep wrote: [quote]
Taeja is a 2-time Code S quarter finalist (losing to the eventual champ both times) and a quarter finalist at WCS Season 2.
If you think Taeja has "suffered", you must have a low opinion of most Koreans in the GSL.
Semi-finalist. He made the Ro4 twice, which is very impressive.
Still, while I do believe that Liquid has really helped Taeja career-wise, I don't think Taeja will ever win a premier tournament in Korea, which is a huge shame. One of the effects of joining a foreign team is an emphasis on foreign events, and also means that talent effectively leaves Korea. This could be good and bad, since previously Korea was oversaturated with talent and now the talent is more evenly spread across regions.
The shame is that people think that a foreign event win = GSL win which is very frustrating.
I'm pretty sure almost nobody thinks this.
Nobody does, but who does well in GSL beyond the winner is irrelevant now.
Yeah, Innovation vs. Soulkey, Rain vs. Maru in WCS Korea, who cares about those non-winners right? Why does Soulkey's consistency matter at all if the only thing that matters is the #1 spot? Give me a break.
Special cases where even the runner-ups went on to win something else. Could you, honestly, name all the semifinalists this year without bringing up Liquipedia, including the ones that didn't have remarkable success outside WCS KR? He's saying that "GSL semifinalist" means less now than it used to, which is true. At least, that's how I'm interpreting it.
Well seeing as I only really watch Korea, I might be the wrong person to ask. I haven't missed a single Code S/WCS KR game all year. The level of competition is just too high to pass up.
Why would being a GSL semifinalist be less meaningful now that there are only three per year? I'm not saying you're wrong, it just seems counter-intuitive.
It's not about it necessarily being less meaningful (though it is, slightly, since a number of previous top contenders left the region in 2013), it's about it receiving less attention. "GSL semifinalist" just doesn't mean as much now as it would have 18 months ago. It doesn't matter if it's logical or not, that's how it is. The Season finals are mostly to blame for this, I feel.
Let's not kid ourselves...It barely meant anything before. People might remember Leenock and Innovation because those were big upsets to fan favourites, and they'll probably remember MKP for always being second place. Does anyone really remember InCa, Rainbow, TOP or HyuN?
Hell, a lot of GSL Champions are forgotten.
I think it's natural for the game's earlier champions to not get the same kind of recognition. It's one thing to win a GSL when the game is brand new and still being figured out, and another to win it when you're going up against macro beasts like Innovation and DRG, when the average GSLer has been playing the game for 3 years. Flukes are less and less probable. Foreigners can't win major tournaments outside of Korea, never mind get into the semifinals of the GSL like Jinro did, and with good reason.
On December 20 2013 04:18 Bagration wrote: [quote]
Semi-finalist. He made the Ro4 twice, which is very impressive.
Still, while I do believe that Liquid has really helped Taeja career-wise, I don't think Taeja will ever win a premier tournament in Korea, which is a huge shame. One of the effects of joining a foreign team is an emphasis on foreign events, and also means that talent effectively leaves Korea. This could be good and bad, since previously Korea was oversaturated with talent and now the talent is more evenly spread across regions.
The shame is that people think that a foreign event win = GSL win which is very frustrating.
I'm pretty sure almost nobody thinks this.
Nobody does, but who does well in GSL beyond the winner is irrelevant now.
Yeah, Innovation vs. Soulkey, Rain vs. Maru in WCS Korea, who cares about those non-winners right? Why does Soulkey's consistency matter at all if the only thing that matters is the #1 spot? Give me a break.
Special cases where even the runner-ups went on to win something else. Could you, honestly, name all the semifinalists this year without bringing up Liquipedia, including the ones that didn't have remarkable success outside WCS KR? He's saying that "GSL semifinalist" means less now than it used to, which is true. At least, that's how I'm interpreting it.
Well seeing as I only really watch Korea, I might be the wrong person to ask. I haven't missed a single Code S/WCS KR game all year. The level of competition is just too high to pass up.
Why would being a GSL semifinalist be less meaningful now that there are only three per year? I'm not saying you're wrong, it just seems counter-intuitive.
It's not about it necessarily being less meaningful (though it is, slightly, since a number of previous top contenders left the region in 2013), it's about it receiving less attention. "GSL semifinalist" just doesn't mean as much now as it would have 18 months ago. It doesn't matter if it's logical or not, that's how it is. The Season finals are mostly to blame for this, I feel.
Let's not kid ourselves...It barely meant anything before. People might remember Leenock and Innovation because those were big upsets to fan favourites, and they'll probably remember MKP for always being second place. Does anyone really remember InCa, Rainbow, TOP or HyuN?
Hell, a lot of GSL Champions are forgotten.
I think it's natural for the game's earlier champions to not get the same kind of recognition. It's one thing to win a GSL when the game is brand new and still being figured out, and another to win it when you're going up against macro beasts like Innovation and DRG, when the average GSLer has been playing the game for 3 years. Flukes are less and less probable. Foreigners can't win major tournaments outside of Korea, never mind get into the semifinals of the GSL like Jinro did, and with good reason.
Actually, it's the early champions which are the most recognizable. Fruitdealer for being first, and then Nestea, MC and MVP for dominating the entire first year.
It's the 2012+ champions which are easier to forget.
Not a good news. Dear will win some new fans around foreign events, but his shape will fade in Code S, just like other players as Innovation, Taeja... I hope I'm wrong, but that always happens...
On December 20 2013 17:51 Veluvian wrote: Not a good news. Dear will win some new fans around foreign events, but his shape will fade in Code S, just like other players as Innovation, Taeja... I hope I'm wrong, but that always happens...
Y like Inno with multiple top finishes last year, oh and Taeja with 4 major titles ? Or where it 5 ? :O The Hellbatnerf was not a reason that Inno's TvT became crap, no it was not. And his TvT became not rly better after he trained with MMA outside of GSL ... no *irony off*
@mouzChase, I enjoy all the tournaments arround the world, but Code S is another universe, another level comparing the rest. Players who usually use so much energy in so many events don't have the strenght enough to endure to the big competition in Korea, physically and mentaly, that's why I'm worried for Dear. I see you're a big fan of mouz team, that's great, but let's be realists. Btw for what multiple top finishes of Innovation do you speak? Individually - not in Acer, yes, in GSTL, but not in individual leagues. After Season 1 - NONE. And no Code S champion title, and Innovation was really the best, I saw how he play in DH Bucharest. But he was not that power months ago in STX Soul, with the macro games, with scv all-in's. To train in Korean team is totally different from foreign team, that was my point of view. And the other point - rather to decide to stay in WCS Korea, or to try foreign major tournaments, but to win all of them - impossible.
On December 20 2013 19:05 Veluvian wrote: @mouzChase, I enjoy all the tournaments arround the world, but Code S is another universe, another level comparing the rest. Players who usually use so much energy in so many events don't have the strenght enough to endure to the big competition in Korea, physically and mentaly, that's why I'm worried for Dear. I see you're a big fan of mouz team, that's great, but let's be realists. Btw for what multiple top finishes of Innovation do you speak? Individually - not in Acer, yes, in GSTL, but not in individual leagues. After Season 1 - NONE. And no Code S champion title, and Innovation was really the best, I saw how he play in DH Bucharest. But he was not that power months ago in STX Soul, with the macro games, with scv all-in's. To train in Korean team is totally different from foreign team, that was my point of view. And the other point - rather to decide to stay in WCS Korea, or to try foreign major tournaments, but to win all of them - impossible.
I agree on with you the all the tournament overseas are hard to handle and that players rly need more time to recharge. And yes Code S is another level of play and sure, the training that you get out of it is rly good, but i dont think that you get so much weaker by playing outside of korea. At least when you are rly talented like Inno, Taeja, Dear, sOs and so on. I think Inno got more into an overal slump then rly lacking skillwise, cause he left korea, guess its more the travel but we will never find out ^^ :D
On December 20 2013 19:05 Veluvian wrote: @mouzChase, I enjoy all the tournaments arround the world, but Code S is another universe, another level comparing the rest. Players who usually use so much energy in so many events don't have the strenght enough to endure to the big competition in Korea, physically and mentaly, that's why I'm worried for Dear. I see you're a big fan of mouz team, that's great, but let's be realists. Btw for what multiple top finishes of Innovation do you speak? Individually - not in Acer, yes, in GSTL, but not in individual leagues. After Season 1 - NONE. And no Code S champion title, and Innovation was really the best, I saw how he play in DH Bucharest. But he was not that power months ago in STX Soul, with the macro games, with scv all-in's. To train in Korean team is totally different from foreign team, that was my point of view. And the other point - rather to decide to stay in WCS Korea, or to try foreign major tournaments, but to win all of them - impossible.
Eventually someone is guna break the cycle? It WILL happen eventually and Dear has a great work ethic that got him to where he is now. And going overseas to play more tournaments is really something he wants to do, so if he's motivated I think he can still perform to the best of his abilities. And luckily he will be staying in Korea, staying on Korean ladder and still playing in WCS Korea, so I don't see where his skill level will decline? Or where he is all of a sudden guna be playing less skillful competition? Those arguments aren't valid until we see how he performs and how he handles the travel, because honestly until then, no one knows what is guna happen.
Apparently, mouz still has some special announcements to come so we shall have to wait and see what else they have up their sleeve! But he has many friends and connections in Korea, so those people will still be around to be a support system. And I don't think anyone can say that Jaedong is playing worse now than he was in Korea, or that he's "lost skill" by playing on a foreign team. So I really don't agree with that argument being made to be the almighty truth at this point in time.
On December 20 2013 17:51 Veluvian wrote: Not a good news. Dear will win some new fans around foreign events, but his shape will fade in Code S, just like other players as Innovation, Taeja... I hope I'm wrong, but that always happens...
Y like Inno with multiple top finishes last year, oh and Taeja with 4 major titles ? Or where it 5 ? :O The Hellbatnerf was not a reason that Inno's TvT became crap, no it was not. And his TvT became not rly better after he trained with MMA outside of GSL ... no *irony off*
He said about GSL code S results as i got. Only GSL code S results.
EPT![[image loading]](http://gfx.mousesports.com/library/272/6091.png)
Dear" Dong Jun will join the ![[image loading]](http://gfx.mousesports.com/designv53/header2012/benq.png)
![[image loading]](http://gfx.mousesports.com/designv53/header2012/geil.png)
![[image loading]](http://gfx.mousesports.com/designv53/header2012/xmg.png)
![[image loading]](http://gfx.mousesports.com/designv53/header2012/razer_old.png)
![[image loading]](http://gfx.mousesports.com/designv53/header2012/thortech.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YdIhnRM.png)
. Mouz will still need another strong player to support him in the team leagues. Hopefully with Dear there, the other mouz players will improve.
Rain's interview made me to remember my old dreams but it was 1 bright in the darkness.![[image loading]](http://img.izismile.com/img/img3/20100115/mouse_deer_00.jpg)
