EPTCasters: Our caretakers of our experience - Page 5
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Alpino
Brazil4390 Posts
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teddyoojo
Germany22369 Posts
On November 07 2013 22:31 Alpino wrote: Still loving insight more than someones voice tone/aacent, everytime I get sweet insight from a pro casting like Tod or MC I'm awestruck by their game understanding, which afaic seems to be way bigger than a caster's game understanding. the same problem is for dota2 casters tho, sc2 and dota2 casters both have equally mostly no idea what theyre talking about | ||
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Caladan
Germany1238 Posts
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Mandalor
Germany2362 Posts
There's 10 times more offline AND online tournaments in sc2 right now. The ratio seems to be about the same to me, tho. Also not quite sure what it is in my posts that warrants your condescending tone. Might wanna tone that down a notch, I'm not insulting you either. | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24580 Posts
On November 07 2013 22:24 Mandalor wrote: I think it's interesting and it was just an example of what they do. They analyse hero synergies before and during the game, recent results of the teams playing etc etc. I don't quite get that tournament structure sentence of yours. The amount of lan tournaments vs offline tournaments seem to be about the same for dota2 and sc2. How about "immortal sentry allin has a 58% win rate vs 3 hatch expand on Map younameit" (no idea about hots builds)? Or what about "On average, MC gets his 3rd nexus around 18 minutes in the game on this map. The only players quicker than that are Dear (16:39) and Naniwa (17:54)". There's tons of stuff you could do with this and it provides options for the casters to talk about, analyse the style of players instead of "Artosis, what's your favorite cake?" and other shit we get to hear when there's not much to talk about. I think you have a point. I think was also more common in BW where talk about being undefeated for X amount of games or maps, vs this or that race was more common. But this is really beyond the scope of this thread which seems to have little to debate. | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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OuchyDathurts
United States4588 Posts
People with a terrible sense of humor drive me crazy too. Tobi has never said a single thing which made me even smile so when he tries to make some awful joke and do that fake panic bombing laugh I want to rip my ears off. The same can be said for other caster's "humor" or lack there of. I don't have a problem with accents in general, as long as you speak English well and don't trip over your words constantly I don't mind it at all. Bruno, 2GD, Apollo, even Lumi I've warmed up some to. They all have accents and I think they're perfectly good casters. Pitch doesn't matter to me as long as its not some shrill voice like nails on a chalk board. My biggest problem with most casters, in either game, by far is the lack of vocabulary. It's alarming how often most of them use the same word or phrase. Every time I hear "under the cover of XXX", "XXX is doing YYY, BUT XXX doesn't know about YYY's ____, BUT XXX has ____ so maybe he can counter, BUT...", "Caught out", "Rattling their sabre", etc, etc. I want to smash my head into my desk. I believe most casters are living their dream. Being paid to travel, be in the spotlight, and talk about a game they love. To my way of thinking broadening your vocabulary, reviewing your casts to see spots where you keep repeating things and correcting it, and just diction and oratory skills in general is something a professional caster should be working on every day. Its part of honing your craft and keeping your skills up to date. ESPECIALLY if you're the play by play caster who has the help of an analytical caster that's there to know all the ins and outs of the game. The analytical guy's job is to know the meta, know the mechanics, know the inner workings of the game and the minds of the players playing it, the play by play caster's job is to talk purdy. That should involve having a clear speaking voice, not tripping over your words, and not repeating certain words or phrases 20 times per game. Look at real sports casters, you'll never catch the greats doing that. | ||
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NapkinBox
United States314 Posts
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RESOqub
51 Posts
The dominant sport on this planet is football (the real kind) and if you watch football, there are only two things that are required to be a commentator: excitement for major events and clear speaking. They don't even need to know anything about the game! Watch any coverage of the English Premier League or La Liga and you will see the difference between analysts and the commentators. The difference with SC2 is you are often required to be both at the same time unless you intentionally put yourself out there as a pure commentator ie TotalBiscuit. Analysts run the gamut but almost always have extensive knowledge of the game either through having played it at the highest level as in Gary Neville or having managed at a high level ie Sven Goren Erikkson. They never dumb down their accents. The Sky Sports analysis couch is currently staffed by Gary Neville who has the thickest Manchester accent you can imagine and Carragher, who is a scouser. Further, you make the basic mistake of assuming that deepness of voice is authority. Authority comes through the diction of a voice - that is why VasaCast is one of the best casts to listen to even if you can't understand his language because his voice is powerful and forceful. You can have the highest pitched voice in the world and if you speak clearly and capably you will hold plenty of attention. The only major mistake most casters make is to hesitate over what they are saying but that is also because we have an insanely hostile community who nitpick over everything. Never hesitate. Say the first thing on your mind and run with it. Even if you have the entire of twitch chat calling you a moron, what do they know? They aren't getting paid to do it. They're just couch bound nerds. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
On November 07 2013 23:06 OuchyDathurts wrote: I can like or hate a caster for a plethora of reasons. Accents can very much turn me off. SNM's casting was a garbled mess you couldn't understand 80% of the time. Winter I don't care for for the same reason. Knowledge is all well and good but being a caster assumes you have some sort of oration skills. If your accent is too thick or you speak in broken English I just can't be bothered with listening, it detracts from the cast for me personally. I shouldn't have to try and decipher what the hell you're trying to say. People with a terrible sense of humor drive me crazy too. Tobi has never said a single thing which made me even smile so when he tries to make some awful joke and do that fake panic bombing laugh I want to rip my ears off. The same can be said for other caster's "humor" or lack there of. I don't have a problem with accents in general, as long as you speak English well and don't trip over your words constantly I don't mind it at all. Bruno, 2GD, Apollo, even Lumi I've warmed up some to. They all have accents and I think they're perfectly good casters. Pitch doesn't matter to me as long as its not some shrill voice like nails on a chalk board. My biggest problem with most casters, in either game, by far is the lack of vocabulary. It's alarming how often most of them use the same word or phrase. Every time I hear "under the cover of XXX", "XXX is doing YYY, BUT XXX doesn't know about YYY's ____, BUT XXX has ____ so maybe he can counter, BUT...", "Caught out", "Rattling their sabre", etc, etc. I want to smash my head into my desk. I believe most casters are living their dream. Being paid to travel, be in the spotlight, and talk about a game they love. To my way of thinking broadening your vocabulary, reviewing your casts to see spots where you keep repeating things and correcting it, and just diction and oratory skills in general is something a professional caster should be working on every day. Its part of honing your craft and keeping your skills up to date. ESPECIALLY if you're the play by play caster who has the help of an analytical caster that's there to know all the ins and outs of the game. The analytical guy's job is to know the meta, know the mechanics, know the inner workings of the game and the minds of the players playing it, the play by play caster's job is to talk purdy. That should involve having a clear speaking voice, not tripping over your words, and not repeating certain words or phrases 20 times per game. Look at real sports casters, you'll never catch the greats doing that. Well, the talent pool for casters consists of introverted kids that play video games 24/7, never read books, and have difficulty thinking of synonyms for the words gay and rape. Can't expect too much. | ||
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RESOqub
51 Posts
On November 07 2013 07:21 Facultyadjutant wrote: This is handled in the reddit thread Summary: Husky fullfills greatly the other criterias: clarity and a very standard english Totalbiscuit is the same: Heavy accent but clarity and a very low toned voice. Which I find completely true. And personally I have to say: of course there are exceptions, like bruno for example in dota2 taken up in the post. Look how we reacted to proleague, one of the greatest competition in the worlds, yet we loathed it due to the caster pair. Same with gsl and moletrap. Just speaking as someone who actually has to speak in competitive debating, Husky is without a doubt one of the weakest voices in the SC2 scene. Husky has a scratchy voice and speaks far too fast all the time. In order of tone the top three are TotalBiscuit, Vasa and Tasteless. TB and Vasa have the best diction in the community by quite some distance where Vasa has a marvellous Italian habit of rolling his words for emphasis and TB has incredible bass emphasis on words he wants you to actually listen to. Tasteless is just all round superb at public speaking. The best analytical caster in the scene by far is of course Apollo, followed by Artosis. Apollo is only let down by his vocabulary and he sometimes has a tendency to raise the pitch of his voice at the end of sentences which is a bad speaking habit. Artosis is the ideal analyst for a duo but isn't as quick on his feet as Apollo is. Grubby still has too much pro-gamer blood in him to simplify what is going on for the lay audience (this is HUGELY important as a caster) or bother to explain his reasoning but he is learning. Idra will never get there - far too arrogant and a terrible speaker. No future for him there - much better as an analyst. Day9 is pretty good all round but has an annoying habit of speaking without moving his tongue when he's not solo casting which is self defeating. He is definitely the best solo caster in the scene however. Incontrol is also similar but fits a different niche - I would feel robbed if Incontrol was solo casting because a lot of the interest in his casting comes from his dead pan sense of humour. Klhaldor and Wolf are seriously underrated. Though Khaldor has that Day9 thing of raising his voice when he's excited, he's also really quick to note what is going on and Wolf provides a kind of aural backdrop which works very well. Got nothing to do with accents and everything to do with the manner in which they speak. | ||
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Tchado
Jordan1831 Posts
For me , the things that turn me off from certain casters are : 1- Lack of advanced knowledge 2- Stuttering , or average command of the english language. (whatever accent ) 3- Too much off-topic bullshit I'm not annoyed by any kind of voice , as long as the shit I mentioned doesn't accrue ( or almost doesnt) , I can tolerate anything , a great example would be my favorite youtube caster StoneBreakKid , he is a Wc3 caster....and his voice is annoying as FUCK ! but his insight into the game is top class , the flow of his casts are very entertaining , and he rarely goes off what is on the screen , he focuses on the game of Wc3 , not his life story ( LAG TV is an exception to this , they aren't meant to be taken as serious casters , and that is why we love them ! ). When I look at E-sports casting , my favorite caster of all time has to be BreakyCPK ( HonCast ) , he has it all , amazing voice , excellent command of the english language , excellent game knowledge , the ability to interact with any co-host or other caster in a very professional manner , can create a very entertaining flow to the cast and he has a charismatic character , I haven't seen anyone near his casting skill in SC2 yet. One thing I would like to add , and this is my personal opinion , is that game knowledge is what produces the best casts , I wish we had more analytical casters who are either top level players (on the global scale) or ex-pros , I know we have a few in SC2 but I'll make an example from other games , take Grubby's WC3 casts on youtube , even after playing the game for 10 years , that kind of game knowledge and analytics made me shit my pants , hands down the best WC3 casts out there , in those videos he didn't scream out of excitement or anything , it was just pure mind blogging game knowledge. Another example that actually includes the modern requirements of casting , I'd say the combination of BreakyCPK and Tralfamadore ( HonCast) , I like to call that the golden age of HonCast , those 2 didn't just bring in exciting games and EXCELLENT casts , but they impacted the game itself , along with everything I said about Breaky , Tralf brought a whole new level of game knowledge to the table , it was expected since he was a HoN pro , his analysis was a huge mind fuck to everyone who watched , very easy to follow through , while breaky controlled the flow of the cast , tralf would drop the knowledge , tralf was so good at what he did , I could swear he single handedly made HoN a better game , and the reason was that low level players like me finally found a mentor like personality they can listen to , not only to enjoy the cast itself , but to improve their game.....SC2 needs more people like this. Again , my personal opinion. | ||
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OuchyDathurts
United States4588 Posts
On November 07 2013 23:19 Grumbels wrote: Well, the talent pool for casters consists of introverted kids that play video games 24/7, never read books, and have difficulty thinking of synonyms for the words gay and rape. Can't expect too much. If your cashing a check to do it one would assume you're going to put in the work to do a competent job. Many jobs come with some sort of upkeep of skills that is implied with the line of work. You could just as easily say the talent pool for construction workers consists of washed up high school football players and drunks but you still have to keep up with code changes and new methods. The talent pool of IT workers consists of dorks and shutins but you still have to get new certifications to keep up with the times and changes in technology. Certain things are just part and parcel with the job, being a public speaker broadcasting to the entire world sort of comes with a the implied ability to be a master of the language. I don't see a single esports caster that's on the level of an Al Michaels who is a legend in American sportscasting. Maybe it's just me but if I was casting that's sure as hell what I'd be striving for. It's sort of like seeing a UFC fighter who's just a tub of shit. Bro, your job is to work out, have some respect for the game! A caster's job is to speak, and most of those problems can be fixed if the effort is put in. ESPECIALLY if its your dream job, you should be looking to absolutely murder it. | ||
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RESOqub
51 Posts
1. Read up on authoritative voices, then listen back to your own casts. One of the more basic ways to emphasize words is to change the pitch of your voice for that word alone and to speak more slowly. The end of a sentence should be lower in pitch unless it is an explicit question. Again, I refer to TotalBiscuit for the perfect example of how to do this. If you listen to his latest video you hear this: "LADIES AND GENTLEMAN this name is TOTALBISCUIT and i'm here to ask wtf is call of duty EXTINCTION MOde" Where the caps denote an increase in pitch or volume. I suspect it is so ingrained into his speaking pattern he doesn't even realise he's doing it but it's become a passive thing and he is very good at it. 2. Kill off annoying vocal habits. A few that are prevalent within the Starcraft community are as follows: A: Unnecessary sentence fluffing "We do see" "I do feel" "And I'm not sure but I think" "not quite as" Artosis, Apollo, hi. This is you. This comes about because silence is deadly and it is a radio casters prerogative. While you are effectively a radio caster in that you aren't visible at the time, you are not radio casters. There is nothing wrong with a brief period of silence in an audio-visual medium. There is plenty going on thanks to the observer without you padding out every sentence with five unnecessary words. We do see is a method of providing mental chatter to cover a silence while you are thinking. Instead, use "it looks like" or "we see - pardon, now we see" in the case of a mistake. It increases the authority within your speaking. If the people who are telling you how to cast are telling you the opposite, tell them to stfu and that they have no idea what they are talking about. Korean casters in particular never shut up, but that's their culture. English native speakers do not scrabble and shout over their words. Brief periods of silence are golden in the English language for providing emphasis and space to think. English is a very nuanced, information dense language. Keep that in mind. B: Sudden losses of excitement mid sentence Khaldor, if you're reading this, you're the worst for this but not the only one. When you are excited and commentating something that is happening that is definitely going to decide the game and then it STOPS, you sometimes a begging tone where you sound like a disappointed child. Instead, try to kill your excitement dead within a word or two and then admit your misread in a more authoritative tone. You never want to be sounding like you are begging while doing public speaking. C: Um, ah, and First thing. Um and ah should be squashed like cockroaches. Kill them off. They are symptoms of the same fear of silence that causes "we do see". Get rid of them. Secondly, never be afraid to finish a sentence dead. AAAAAAND just makes the whole thing into one gigantic run on sentence. About half of English casters do this. Again, listen to TotalBiscuit and Tasteless on how to nail a sentence as well as when to make one a run on sentence. They are both extremely good at it. | ||
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JP Dayne
538 Posts
I really don't like it when casters with asian accents cut down letters. hell even Khaldor's is annoying to the point I can't watch him anymore. Tobi's accent is VERY okay because his diction is good. I also don't enjoy day9's high pitched tone and overboard (forced?) "enthusiasm". all in all, I'm just glad kellymilkies is gone with her FAUCE FEELS (that's force fields for the unaware). | ||
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
So yeah a caster success is a mix of all of the things you talk about and the most successfull are usually the best in it. What i think lacks in most WCS casts and SC2 in general, is more statistics. For instance if MVP is playing MC, i want to know: -how many times they faced -who won more and % -finals lost? semis? quarters? etc.. -Are they good friends? or are they rivals? -did they trashtalk before? etc.. these will bring more to the game then just "PROTOSS SPAWNING ON THE UPPER LEFT and TERRAN NOW SPAWNING ON THE BOTTOM RIGHT!" | ||
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stratmatt
United States913 Posts
I dont watch dota 2 because moba games are terrible IMO so I wouldnt know anything about the casters nor am I in the least bit interested to find out. | ||
JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
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gobbledydook
Australia2603 Posts
A couple years ago I started watching Starcraft. I believe one of the first games I watched was MC's PvT carrier rush that won him a tournament, can't remember which one now. Back then I knew basically nothing about starcraft. I was confused when casters said '1-1 is halfway done' because I had no idea what the 2 ones referred to. I only realized they were talking about the attack and armor upgrades when a caster explained 2-2 one day: 2 attack and 2 armor. I also did not know that 'rax' referred to the bar-'RACKS' and that bugged me for a long time until it suddenly clicked. You wouldn't have such a problem if you were watching sport on the television, it becomes very clear what the commentators are talking about 5 minutes into tuning in for the first time. Casters should make the game as fun for new viewers as possible. After all, that is where growth comes from. This encompasses many things. The clarity and manner of speech, as discussed in the OP, are important. If you can't even make out what the commentator is talking about, that won't work. But I feel that the content of the commentary is equally as important and I think Starcraft commentators are going at it the wrong way. When you look at major sports that gets played on TV, there is not much analysis going on. Most of it is play by play and hyping. The analysis only happens when a goal is scored or equivalent and there is a break in the action. That's when they show the replays from multiple angles and analyse what made that play work. I think Starcraft commentators are flooding the viewers with too much information during the cast and that just makes casual watchers confused. The analysis during game should be predominantly play by play and generating excitement; analysis can wait till the end of the game where you can use the replay feature (and have the power of foresight). | ||
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S1eth
Austria221 Posts
On November 07 2013 07:20 Grumbels wrote: There is also a reason that the most commonly accepted casters are USA & UK based. Yes, and it's because those are the 2 countries with the highest amount of native English speakers in the world, so they have the highest chance to produce good English speaking casters. | ||
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