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Casters: Our caretakers of our experience

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Facultyadjutant
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Sweden1876 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-06 22:41:01
November 06 2013 21:32 GMT
#1
Cross posted from reddit (edited for smiley reasons)
http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1q1xgg/there_is_something_lacking_in_starcraft_2_casters/

[image loading]

I find myself in a strange position where I love starcraft so much more than dota2, yet I continously enjoy the dota2 casters more, on the edge of jealously. Do I think there is a big problem?, no, I think sc2 casting is acceptable and enjoyable and keep that in mind as reading: I do not dislike any casting currently; I think however that one can review even the good things in an objective matter. Even if there are no complaints, there might be things we don't see because they are missing rather than being there and irritating.

Is it just the game maybe? Is it the gdstudio?

Why do I find such enjoyment in dota2 casting? I did an attempt to list my personal reasons and try to define them.

I like many of the current casters in sc2, but there is a reason why seemingly irrelevant things matters greatly and in all industries there are minimum things that are always established.

''Why brands has a common artistic theme to everything?''
''Why does all sport interviews have the same angle and juxtaposition?''
''Why do commentators and news casters often wear the same type of clothes?''

And on and on and on


The reason of why many things look like they do is not because ''boring conservative attitude'' but many times the opposite; it is years of hard research and experience of how to make it the most enjoyable for the viewers.

There are hundreds of reasons put together that culminates in you liking for example a movie:
http://imgur.com/a/H1yKw
Mathematic angles, ratios, depths all crucial: All will til the endtime be used, it does not influence if something is new or bad, but rather if the new or old is bad or good.


And in the same way there are fundemental things in casting that takes a good experience to a great one that is always good.

And of course there are exceptions, just like films sometimes brake rules we greatly enjoy taking in player casters.

However we would probably not enjoy even great player casters like polt (which garnered tons of attention) over a great span of time. There is a reason not all of the top casters in bw or sc2 were the best of the best players, but the players to transition were those who fit the casting job.


So what are some of the things a sc2 caster should have?

This is a minimal review, but we *have* to start analyzing this, and dare push out casters who are good for excellent ones that raises the experience drastically. It is to tackle the problems when we don't find anything to complain about regarding the caster, but yet we are receiving a sublime underwhelming experience.

First off of these factors is simple, yet funnily alluding sc2 casters:

1. Starcraft 2 casters in general does not have what great general casters have in the whole sport bussiness:

Low pitched voices, there is an interesting lack of bass voice in starcraft 2 casting with the exception of catzpjamas.

[image loading]

Of course I am not drawing such a great spectrum between kevin knockes heavy heavy bass voice and the very very high pitch of for example moletrap, but starcraft casters in general has quite a high pitched voice *even if ever slightly* which - while one might like the caster per say - is quite bad.

http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2012/12/why-we-prefer-masculine-voices-even-in-women/266350/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15718969

There is of course studies stating high pitch can be of preference, but they are often about attractiveness of the person; but arguably a casters job is not to be attractive, being attractive is the opposite of what a caster should be as it distracts from the players.

A casters job is to give information, and explain, thus it needs to be a voice we trust and we are more likely to be lead by. That might sound strange, especially that casters can of course be wrong at times, but that is irrelevant in where we want a voice we like, and in general we always trust the casters and it is not like we will deny a casters mistake - no matter how deep the voice is.

2. Starcraft 2 casters in general is filled with accents.

Casters of sc2 has a plethora of accents.

Again you and probably many others might love the film: The producers; however there are reasons why it is overall and in general a bad film - http://imgur.com/a/97gdq#0

And just like you might personally enjoy a caster, we need to detract and objectively [http://www.npr.org/2010/11/16/131359561/unfamiliar-accents-turn-off-humans-and-songbirds] look at the casters and question if we are given potentially an exceptional cast, rather then merely a good one.

This is a hidden blindspot, as the audience is international, and many of regions might enjoy a certain accent; but there is value then in looking into voices that then also has a global reach that all can enjoy.

[image loading]
"Gid Moaning"

Examples of accents:

Supernovamaniac
+ Show Spoiler +


Rotterdam
+ Show Spoiler +


Apollo
+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux_nslpWqaE

Kaelaris
+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHrTfJW9F-g

Tod

Khaldor
+ Show Spoiler +


And the list goes on.

From barely noticable to heavy and thick accents starcraft 2 has an extreme variation.

Who are the most popular casters during the games history?

Tastosis
Husky
Day9
Geoff Robinson
MlgRobin (was extremely applauded for his albeit short casting)

Apollo: yes he is one of the most popular but I want to add that of course there is exceptions where other criteria beyond the voice simply smashes. But we still see a pretty light british accent, that doesn't change the cyllables too much.



of course, not everyone will agree with me, but I do find these to have been the ones who have the broadest appeal in the community, and their following measured in quantity I think shows this.

One of the best examples is funnily enough from korean origin

+ Show Spoiler +


Chobra, the single greatest thing with last OSL was undoubtably Chobra's incredibly crisp, clear and coherent voice and was incredibly well recieved.


To go back to dota2 and have a look
We do see accents

Tobiwan, one of the most popular casters carry an accent
+ Show Spoiler +


And I leave that up in the air, just like appollos british accent, however I would argue tobiwans aussie accent might stretch or turn cyllables with similar sounds (doing damage from the ''baeck aend'') but does not allude, thicken or change certain cyllables like many accents do.

Also he speaks clear and coherent something sc2 casters always don't do, but more on that in point 3.

But besides bruno there is incredibly heavy use of standard english much to the actual success of thegdstudio

thegdstudio and relatives on thegdstudio
+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/DreamLeague


2gd
+ Show Spoiler +
http://fragbite.se/fragtv/video/1476/fragbite-masters-meet-the-dota-2-casters


Draskyl
+ Show Spoiler +
http://fragbite.se/fragtv/video/1476/fragbite-masters-meet-the-dota-2-casters


Weppas
+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.gamespot.com/videos/draskyl-talks-casting-the-international-and-future/2300-6412831/


The grand final caster of the internationals
+ Show Spoiler +
LD:



All share an accent free or an accent light experience; we are not distracted by the casters, it is what they say that is the most important; the slightest irritation can distract, and then detract from the experience.

3. Clarity

A combination of all factors above; sc2 casters above all has a big suffering of lack of clear and distinguished voices

Axlav
+ Show Spoiler +

and especially the very early axslav is a great example as he suffered greatly from this; where the voice or the mouth isn't clear, you can hear the blockage, like the articulation is muffled.


Gretorp
+ Show Spoiler +

Gretorp also has this small muffle in his sound, the cyllables aren't 100% clear, they are obstructed.

Supernovamaniac
+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVPu4OrH_y0

was very indicative and while I enjoyed his insight, was one of the main reason snm was not well recieved as he very heavily had a muffled speech.


This problem of clarity is one of the greatest things that separate regular casters from premium casters; look at hockey, fotball or whatever - impeccable clarity, you hear everything clearly.



End note

This - while might prove unpopular - was started due to me comparing dota2 casting and sc2 casting and I will also end that way.

Current dota2 casting is

- Clear, no one fumbles the words, no ones words are muffled, it is clear and audible and the casters presence is unobstructed

- No accents, there are barely any accents and those who are light, there is nothing distracting the viewer; the casting is clear and there is nothing distracting from what the caster is conveying.

- Lower pitched voice, the voices of dota2 can be intense and energizing but they remain the sound of control and more than anything control. There is no doubt of what is happening here, we are not doubting the casters and spend time thinking of their character; we might do when they say something factually wrong, but we don't do it because it *sounds* factually wrong.


And in the end I think Starcraft 2 needs to more than ever objectively look at their casters, both current and up and coming. Just like an audible audience can be the difference between an incredible or simply good event; so can casters voices be the factor in a tournament, and thus I argue that we should look for long term casters whose voices are stripped of distractions - we should not be thinking of the casters personality, we should not be spending an extra second diffusing what word he used - but to let us focus on what is most important of all:

The game

references:

http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2012/12/why-we-prefer-masculine-voices-even-in-women/266350/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-15718969

http://www.npr.org/2010/11/16/131359561/unfamiliar-accents-turn-off-humans-and-songbirds
#1 FAN OF TERRY THE INTERN - NONY AND IDRA NUMBER #1, EVERY DAY. AXIOM MANOR - Axiom: Ryung, Alicia, Heart and Crank under the Don TotalBiscuit and the Donnesa Genna Bain- Join the family http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396090#2
Onekobold
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
244 Posts
November 06 2013 21:35 GMT
#2
--- Nuked ---
Facultyadjutant
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Sweden1876 Posts
November 06 2013 21:37 GMT
#3
On November 07 2013 06:35 Onekobold wrote:
you use way too many asterisks


I am editing now, it was crossposted from reddit where asterisks boldens or tilts
#1 FAN OF TERRY THE INTERN - NONY AND IDRA NUMBER #1, EVERY DAY. AXIOM MANOR - Axiom: Ryung, Alicia, Heart and Crank under the Don TotalBiscuit and the Donnesa Genna Bain- Join the family http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396090#2
Larkin
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United Kingdom7161 Posts
November 06 2013 21:44 GMT
#4
The accent thing is complete bullshit, because it presumes American accents to be the default. Apollo is (rightly) considered to be one of if not the best caster in SC2, because of his expertise, knowledge and ability to be entertaining, not because of his accent.

Besides, if the writer is a Dota 2 fan, what does he think about 2GD?

Pointless, uninformed translation between two different things. There are issues within casts, no doubt about that - but it is, nine times out of ten, because the caster is just not that good. Not to do with the "bass" in their voice or their accent.
https://www.twitch.tv/ttalarkin - streams random stuff, high level teamleague, maybe even heroleague
Facultyadjutant
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Sweden1876 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-06 21:51:21
November 06 2013 21:49 GMT
#5
On November 07 2013 06:44 Larkin wrote:
The accent thing is complete bullshit, because it presumes American accents to be the default. Apollo is (rightly) considered to be one of if not the best caster in SC2, because of his expertise, knowledge and ability to be entertaining, not because of his accent.

Besides, if the writer is a Dota 2 fan, what does he think about 2GD?

Pointless, uninformed translation between two different things. There are issues within casts, no doubt about that - but it is, nine times out of ten, because the caster is just not that good. Not to do with the "bass" in their voice or their accent.


I took action of this aswell, but I do see the accents that do prevail are the english accents, 2gd when I listen I do not think carries heavy of an accent? Besides it doesn't assume american is the standard, it assumes english is the standard: which it is

My country like others has a certain sort of swedish being used in nationalbroadcasts as so everyone can understand crystal clear whit the lack of regional accents.

I agree with that there is a reason why all people working in casting jobs of all industries around the world are quite alike in tone, voice and sound.
#1 FAN OF TERRY THE INTERN - NONY AND IDRA NUMBER #1, EVERY DAY. AXIOM MANOR - Axiom: Ryung, Alicia, Heart and Crank under the Don TotalBiscuit and the Donnesa Genna Bain- Join the family http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396090#2
Master of DalK
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
Canada1797 Posts
November 06 2013 21:54 GMT
#6
The accents thing is very unfair. You can't just get rid of your accent, you can train the way you speak but not your accent. We shouldn't set a barrier for casters just because of their accent.
@MasterDalK | Maelstrom Entertainment | Streaming Every Esport Under the Sun
-Kaiser-
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Canada932 Posts
November 06 2013 21:58 GMT
#7
I agree. I've been saying for a long time that the casting is SC2 has a low standard that needs to be raised to bring in more viewers. Being a good caster means more than having game knowledge or being able to get excited and talk a lot. You need to be good on camera and have the right voice and be able to speak clearly. A lot of the casters we have running our events don't meet that basic criteria.
3 Hatch Before Cool
DinoMight
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States3725 Posts
November 06 2013 22:00 GMT
#8
This is pretty stupid. I like different casters for different reasons, none of them being their accents.

Personally, I think casters should focus more on the less obvious aspects of the game (all the smart positioning moves that the players make, all the metagaming that goes on, reactions based on scouting,etc.).

"Wtf I come back and find myself in camp DinoMight all of a sudden, feels weird man." -Wombat_NI
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
November 06 2013 22:01 GMT
#9
But... I like accents
Standard American English voice is boring as hell.
Did you ever watch the movie Snatch ? That movie had very very hard accent and it gave it such a unique feeling to it. I love that.

I would agree that we lack bass voice casters. But that's probably because our casters are all pretty young.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
-Kaiser-
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Canada932 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-06 22:05:05
November 06 2013 22:04 GMT
#10
nvm
3 Hatch Before Cool
Facultyadjutant
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Sweden1876 Posts
November 06 2013 22:06 GMT
#11
On November 07 2013 07:00 DinoMight wrote:
This is pretty stupid. I like different casters for different reasons, none of them being their accents.

Personally, I think casters should focus more on the less obvious aspects of the game (all the smart positioning moves that the players make, all the metagaming that goes on, reactions based on scouting,etc.).



Those reasons are not reviewed here it is all about the voice

factual knowledge, entertainment all requires separate articles/reviews !
#1 FAN OF TERRY THE INTERN - NONY AND IDRA NUMBER #1, EVERY DAY. AXIOM MANOR - Axiom: Ryung, Alicia, Heart and Crank under the Don TotalBiscuit and the Donnesa Genna Bain- Join the family http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396090#2
ffadicted
Profile Joined January 2011
United States3545 Posts
November 06 2013 22:07 GMT
#12
On November 07 2013 06:54 Master of DalK wrote:
The accents thing is very unfair. You can't just get rid of your accent, you can train the way you speak but not your accent. We shouldn't set a barrier for casters just because of their accent.


Not true, this is done VERY often by actors and voice actors alike. With training, you can mold your voice into pretty much anything.

Now, whether or not we want casters to be forced to do this, is a completely different question...
SooYoung-Noona!
Facultyadjutant
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Sweden1876 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-06 22:09:38
November 06 2013 22:08 GMT
#13
On November 07 2013 06:54 Master of DalK wrote:
The accents thing is very unfair. You can't just get rid of your accent, you can train the way you speak but not your accent. We shouldn't set a barrier for casters just because of their accent.


We do all the time, that is why we don't have certain casters anymore like moletrap or snm, what was complained about was their voices over and over again. I think axslav has improved incredibly overtime, and one of the big things he has worked on is his slurring that was very heavy years ago, same with gretorp actually.
#1 FAN OF TERRY THE INTERN - NONY AND IDRA NUMBER #1, EVERY DAY. AXIOM MANOR - Axiom: Ryung, Alicia, Heart and Crank under the Don TotalBiscuit and the Donnesa Genna Bain- Join the family http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=396090#2
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
November 06 2013 22:10 GMT
#14
Regardless whether the accent thing is true or not, the casters you claim are popular all had a head start in casting sc2 compared to the casters you claim are not that popular. How can you guarantee that they are less popular due to accent rather than that they were at the right place, at the right time?
dr.fahrenheit
Profile Joined January 2013
Austria101 Posts
November 06 2013 22:12 GMT
#15
I’m surprised that Totalbiscuit wasn’t mentioned. For one thing he has an accent (if I’m not horribly mistaken), and for another, he is the one of all the SC2 casters who has talking/speaking down to an art the most. (I mean he maintains a SC2 Team by talking about stuff…)
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
Larkin
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United Kingdom7161 Posts
November 06 2013 22:12 GMT
#16
On November 07 2013 06:49 Facultyadjutant wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 07 2013 06:44 Larkin wrote:
The accent thing is complete bullshit, because it presumes American accents to be the default. Apollo is (rightly) considered to be one of if not the best caster in SC2, because of his expertise, knowledge and ability to be entertaining, not because of his accent.

Besides, if the writer is a Dota 2 fan, what does he think about 2GD?

Pointless, uninformed translation between two different things. There are issues within casts, no doubt about that - but it is, nine times out of ten, because the caster is just not that good. Not to do with the "bass" in their voice or their accent.


I took action of this aswell, but I do see the accents that do prevail are the english accents, 2gd when I listen I do not think carries heavy of an accent? Besides it doesn't assume american is the standard, it assumes english is the standard: which it is

My country like others has a certain sort of swedish being used in nationalbroadcasts as so everyone can understand crystal clear whit the lack of regional accents.

I agree with that there is a reason why all people working in casting jobs of all industries around the world are quite alike in tone, voice and sound.


You're confusing accent and language. Native English speakers are preferred, sure. But he says the best are the more generic American accents.

Tastosis
Husky
Day9
Geoff Robinson
MlgRobin (was extremely applauded for his albeit short casting)

The majority of these are EXTREMELY POLARISING. A lot of people think Tasteless is a bad caster. A lot of people think Day9 is a bad caster. A lot of people don't like Incontrol or Husky. Generally, people like Artosis. And not that many people remember Robin's casting (though it was good).

It's an ill informed, poor argument.

https://www.twitch.tv/ttalarkin - streams random stuff, high level teamleague, maybe even heroleague
calh
Profile Joined March 2013
537 Posts
November 06 2013 22:13 GMT
#17
There is no reason to assume there are many who share the OP's opinion. Personally I couldn't care less about the caster's accent. As for Dota vs Starcraft, BeyondTheSummitTV often have some Asian-sounding guy with less than perfect English as a co-caster, but they seem to still have a lot of viewers anyway. So maybe, just maybe the difference in viewership is due to the games' relative popularity?

Bottom line: it's perfectly reasonable for the OP to call for better voices/accents from casters, but it hardly amounts to anything more than his own preference.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 06 2013 22:14 GMT
#18
I love how this focuses on two aspects the casters have almost no fucking control over: the pitch of their voice and their accent. Seriously, are we going to do this again.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Sjokola
Profile Joined November 2010
Netherlands800 Posts
November 06 2013 22:14 GMT
#19
I do agree with a lot of what your are saying, but I don't think accents are a problem. It's more a point of being understandable and using correct English. Also I don't agree with your list of most popular casters. I believe that casting could be better if they used the format used in many sports. Let casters do the play-by-play and have (ex-)pro-gamers commentate on details and strategies.
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
November 06 2013 22:15 GMT
#20
On November 07 2013 06:54 Master of DalK wrote:
The accents thing is very unfair. You can't just get rid of your accent, you can train the way you speak but not your accent. We shouldn't set a barrier for casters just because of their accent.

It's unfair that I can't be a successful public speaker despite my speech impediment!

I don't think it works that way.

Though as a Dutch speaker I dislike Dutch and German accents, but I love French and Swedish accents.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
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