I would guess that the majority of the viewers are not native English speakers, so having a non native caster, who speaks more of an "international" or "universal" English is actually easier to understand for most of us than a native speaker!
Still the problem with most non native casters today is that they don't have (in my oppinion) a strong enough command of the English language to be good play by play casters and they definitely lack the game knowledge to be good analitical ones.
Tod and Grubby are good examples of heavy accents, yet I really enjoy them in an analytical role because they know a ton about the game and can articulate it on the fly to the audience.
The main, main problem is the general philosophy that casters create the entertainmnet value. NO! The game creates the core entertainment value! But that's a different discussion.
Thanks RESOqub for showing me the issues I have had with casting, but prior to your posts could not explain why. Insightful post (overly used words on TL, but still true).
On November 08 2013 00:44 JustPassingBy wrote: You wouldn't have such a problem if you were watching sport on the television, it becomes very clear what the commentators are talking about 5 minutes into tuning in for the first time.
While I do agree, make no mistake, I don't think it is as easy with SC2. If you compare the amount of knowledge you need to appreciate most sports on TV, e.g. football, to the amount of knowledge needed even understand SC2, it comes as no surprise that general casting of the game is littered with information that can be strange or incomprehensible for the fresh viewer.
That being said, I still agree that they definitely could tone down the lingo quite a bit (your example of "Rax" versus "Barracks" is a striking one). As someone who understands the game, I certainly don't need this and I see no point in keeping it if it annoys new viewers. If we make SC2 less esoteric it will likely gather more viewers (and I believe the general consensus on this is that it is a good thing).
On topic; I have no issue with accents, at all. I do believe that the OP could be right in the context of general sports, but frankly in SC2 we simply don't have a comparable number of viewers or casters. I don't really think this theorizing is applicable at the moment.
As many have already said, I too put most weight on clarity of speech, a broad vocabulary, and a capability of sufficiently (note, without unnecessary complexity) revealing the games nuances during situations that are hard to follow. What I dislike is unnecessary shouting, too much talking about irrelevant subjects or, my personal gripe, faked enthusiasm. I have found myself not caring as much about irrelevant subjects as much as I first thought, mainly because this mostly serves to display some of the casters' personalities and, if we're lucky, some humor.
On November 07 2013 19:47 Grovbolle wrote: The list of most loved casters is laughable.
By twitter followers, what casting gigs they have, their (supposed) income and general presence in the scene I think the list is valid if one would to do an objective take on it.
Your attempt at objectivity is so flawed and the confirmation bias is so apparent, but I will bite. If we were to follow that logic, Total biscuit would be the greatest sc2 caster of all time, which is funny because he is not even on your list of casters, maybe because he has an accent? Yet he has the greatest amount of twitter followers, did a shitton of gigs especially last year and is probably one of the wealthiest guys in esports. But even so all these points can be explained away, with arrival and length of time spent in the scene, availability and salary, which makes em dumb points when it comes to arguing caster popularity.
Subjective opinions. I don't think dota 2 casters are any better. I tried watching the international, but because I don't play dota the games put me to sleep and I didn't find the casters to be anything special. At least in regards to being able to draw in a casual non dota player to watch.
Also apparently I don't exist as a caster according to OP. Ok then
Just out of interest, how would you describe your current position? Team manager? Youtube mogul? Internet Oligarch(I like this one)?
Anyway, my point was that neither you or Husky built your careers and internet popularity strictly through casting SC, and that we cannot use these numbers as an accurate measuring stick because so many people come to your channel for things other than starcraft.
And you need to cast stuff with Idra again, it was the easiest listening I've had with starcraft for years, and I usually mute streams these days because I'm too annoyed with the casters.
Also apparently I don't exist as a caster according to OP. Ok then
Just out of interest, how would you describe your current position? Team manager? Youtube mogul? Internet Oligarch(I like this one)?
Anyway, my point was that neither you or Husky built your careers and internet popularity strictly through casting SC, and that we cannot use these numbers as an accurate measuring stick because so many people come to your channel for things other than starcraft.
And you need to cast stuff with Idra again, it was the easiest listening I've had with starcraft for years, and I usually mute streams these days because I'm too annoyed with the casters.
Actually Husky very much did build his career that way. He was casting Brood War for years prior to SC2 and was (and still actually is btw) the biggest SC2 caster on Youtube by a country-mile. He's also the only one to endure from initial SC2 beta days without experiencing a gigantic drop in viewership (HD, Psy, Ahnaris and others who were more popular in beta have completely fallen off the map in terms of viewership). There's really no way you can describe Husky as anything other than a Starcraft caster. That is what he is and any "Lets Play" stuff he does is usually reserved for his second channel.
My position? I'm a games critic, that's what I do, that's where the vast majority of my revenue comes from. I cast on the side and I'm a team owner because well, I own a team. I definitely did not build my career through SC2 casting no, I brought an audience over to SC2, rather than gaining my audience from SC2. This apparently makes me a bad person in the eyes of people who I am to assume don't like to think too much.
Also apparently I don't exist as a caster according to OP. Ok then
Just out of interest, how would you describe your current position? Team manager? Youtube mogul? Internet Oligarch(I like this one)?
Anyway, my point was that neither you or Husky built your careers and internet popularity strictly through casting SC, and that we cannot use these numbers as an accurate measuring stick because so many people come to your channel for things other than starcraft.
And you need to cast stuff with Idra again, it was the easiest listening I've had with starcraft for years, and I usually mute streams these days because I'm too annoyed with the casters.
I think Husky was a Brood War enthusiast that rose to fame in the SC2 beta period. I don't think you're right at all. He did diversify afterwards, but not initially.
It's entirely possible I was wrong about Husky, I never really watched his stuff, not my cup of tea.
So the question then, is his popularity a result of some vaguely defined vocal attributes, or because he was already an established name before SC2 even came out?
On November 08 2013 02:37 Vicissitude wrote: Thanks RESOqub for showing me the issues I have had with casting, but prior to your posts could not explain why. Insightful post (overly used words on TL, but still true).
On November 08 2013 00:44 JustPassingBy wrote: You wouldn't have such a problem if you were watching sport on the television, it becomes very clear what the commentators are talking about 5 minutes into tuning in for the first time.
While I do agree, make no mistake, I don't think it is as easy with SC2. If you compare the amount of knowledge you need to appreciate most sports on TV, e.g. football, to the amount of knowledge needed even understand SC2, it comes as no surprise that general casting of the game is littered with information that can be strange or incomprehensible for the fresh viewer.
That being said, I still agree that they definitely could tone down the lingo quite a bit (your example of "Rax" versus "Barracks" is a striking one). As someone who understands the game, I certainly don't need this and I see no point in keeping it if it annoys new viewers. If we make SC2 less esoteric it will likely gather more viewers (and I believe the general consensus on this is that it is a good thing).
On topic; I have no issue with accents, at all. I do believe that the OP could be right in the context of general sports, but frankly in SC2 we simply don't have a comparable number of viewers or casters. I don't really think this theorizing is applicable at the moment.
As many have already said, I too put most weight on clarity of speech, a broad vocabulary, and a capability of sufficiently (note, without unnecessary complexity) revealing the games nuances during situations that are hard to follow. What I dislike is unnecessary shouting, too much talking about irrelevant subjects or, my personal gripe, faked enthusiasm. I have found myself not caring as much about irrelevant subjects as much as I first thought, mainly because this mostly serves to display some of the casters' personalities and, if we're lucky, some humor.
When did I ever say that...? O.o (edit: referring to the quote)
I don't really like this thread. I can see the merit behind it, but I don't think we're at that level where we need to start focusing on it. Aside from those "greatest of casters" I can't imagine anyone is making enough money to take the classes or go to the specialists that would be required to address these issues (though I'm personally not too concerned that they're issues). Right now the greatest casters are those with knowledge of the game, and passion for it (no, I don't think tasteless lost his passion). It's extremely hard to break into the casting scene, and look at those who have done a lot to break in there (Axeltoss comes to mind, he gets shit on constantly despite what I think is a huge desire and drive to improve).
Additionally, I hate needing to check both reddit and teamliquid to get the entire thread. So frustrating.
Husky needs more work. Dude is probably the most improved caster going back to the beginning and is actually fucking great and consistent compared to now washed up 'bigger' names (day 9, apollo, tasteless etc...)
Remember when there was this big controversy in the scene that the casters were making more money than the players? And like day9 demanded he have his own tent at dreamhack and be able to stream exclusively on his channel? God what a fucking loser....i swear that the arrogance and demands of some of the bigger name casters have hurt the scene immensely and possibly beyond repair.
Also, axslav is fucking great, get him on wcs america, PLEASE. Sorry but gretorp and that other weird dude just dont cut it i feel like im in middle school when i watch.
TB had a lot of practice and training doing things like radio and podcasting for many years, long before he started casting SC2. I think it was his real talk with JP (if i remember correctly) where he discussed his background and explains how he got so good at what he does. A lot of current casters don't have that sort of background.
On November 08 2013 05:21 Squat wrote: It's entirely possible I was wrong about Husky, I never really watched his stuff, not my cup of tea.
So the question then, is his popularity a result of some vaguely defined vocal attributes, or because he was already an established name before SC2 even came out?
His popularity is because he was one of the big 3 in SC2 beta, alongside Day9 and HD. Day9 focussed on streaming more, HD and Husky on Youtube. HD fell off sharply because he wasn't getting gigs after he lost his position at IPL and also due to a perception at the time that he was making too many incorrect calls and not keeping up with the meta. Husky was also getting all the best replays, so if you wanted to watch the coolest content at a time when there were very few tournaments, you had to watch it on Huskys channel.
it's not just luck, I do believe that in certain aspect, like keeping up the flow, energy, etc, Husky is by far one of the most talented casters out there... also, he is very good at adapting to the needs of his viewers (like introducing new types of content at key moments, e.g. imba league heroes when everyone felt that HotS meta got stale and the freshness and fun just got sucked out of the game). paired with a good analytical guy (like day9 used to be), he is rocking.
Also apparently I don't exist as a caster according to OP. Ok then
Just out of interest, how would you describe your current position? Team manager? Youtube mogul? Internet Oligarch(I like this one)?
Anyway, my point was that neither you or Husky built your careers and internet popularity strictly through casting SC, and that we cannot use these numbers as an accurate measuring stick because so many people come to your channel for things other than starcraft.
And you need to cast stuff with Idra again, it was the easiest listening I've had with starcraft for years, and I usually mute streams these days because I'm too annoyed with the casters.
Actually Husky very much did build his career that way. He was casting Brood War for years prior to SC2 and was (and still actually is btw) the biggest SC2 caster on Youtube by a country-mile. He's also the only one to endure from initial SC2 beta days without experiencing a gigantic drop in viewership (HD, Psy, Ahnaris and others who were more popular in beta have completely fallen off the map in terms of viewership). There's really no way you can describe Husky as anything other than a Starcraft caster. That is what he is and any "Lets Play" stuff he does is usually reserved for his second channel.
My position? I'm a games critic, that's what I do, that's where the vast majority of my revenue comes from. I cast on the side and I'm a team owner because well, I own a team. I definitely did not build my career through SC2 casting no, I brought an audience over to SC2, rather than gaining my audience from SC2. This apparently makes me a bad person in the eyes of people who I am to assume don't like to think too much.
I know this is very off-topic right here, but "famous" e-personalities are very hard to adress and I have the feeling you might read this, so bare with me here: I think the main reason some people "think of you as a bad person" is that you get back to them. A lot of your posts here, on reddit, twitter, you name it, directly adress your "haters" and that's why they feel encouraged to continue like that. I'm sure this is hard to do, but I think you would fare much better if you just ignored these people. And this is coming from someone who absolutely loves your work in all the fields you're engaged in.
EPT
