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Russian Federation14 Posts
Hello guys.Sorry for bad english,but i hope this wall of text will still be understandable.
I wrote all that because i love this game.
I didnt played starcraft 2 for almost 1 year(quited in 2month after oracle patch).I was 2 times GM terran in hots,befor that i was C,C+ Broodwar player,and i didnt played last year of WoL.Tired of 15minutes long same games in tvz/tvp.I was in some eu ML/GM team.Only one of ~20 players is still playing starcraft more than 1 time per month.
Since that moment i almost didnt watch the scene,but when i do,i saw same strategies over and over again.Same "amazing fungles", "amazing baneling hits", "amazing storms","amazing splits".Game didnt progress a bit since that moment.Mech is still unplayable outside ladder.
Since that moment starcraft average viewership drop to 5-10k viewers (20-30kcompared to march 2013).Starcraft is now have average 1/15 viewership compared to other esport discipline,and it still droping.U can see almost every day,it not even on main page of twitch games.
Since that moment wcs-involved casters continue to joke about "esports killers",about "how sc2 is not dead",about "getting sponsors" etc.While reality is much more simple, game had less viewers than "goat simulator" for a WEEK.
LoL or Dota2 is still evolving.It have its unbalanced moments,but this games is "Fun to play and watch over and over again".Counter strike from dead discipline became prime esport because valve is still developing game.
Everybody keep saying about how starcraft2 is "another game" than sc:bw.But for everyone who compared sc:bw units to sc2 analogs is obvious how BW units is more "deep" and fun.And saying that i wanna qoute one person everyone seems like to hate:
"Gameplay always comes first."
And if this is true 1 year after leaving sc2 i can say only one thing:
Broodwar just better and more deep than sc2
Also remember Starbow mod came out?That was much more interesting than ususal ladder games.But blizzard(the few who still developing this game) compared that depht of the game to tower defence arcades.Such competent.
TL and SC2 community can still ranting in almost about "how its complex more to balance RTS than 100+ heroes in moba game".But reality is still more simple.Rock/Paper/scissors is balanced.But nobody gonna watch tournament in that "super balanced" type of esport.
If you dont care about your game.If you patching oracles for "late game harassment".If it took a YEAR to revert a bad widow mine patch.If all u capable of its making destructible rocks and units "faster".That will leads to game being less popular than casual(unbalanced RNG game) hearthstone,goat simulator or even minecraft.
Saying all that.
Starcraft was premier esport for 12 years.And it keep failing hardcore since middle of "non patch super balance era".Since middle of 2012 infestor-all-games-looks-same era.
As long as incompetent peoples who can only make unit faster,make "late game harsment" patches,which prooves that developers dont play this game at all,and patching it absolutly randomly for 2 times per year...as long as David Kim in charge of this game,this game will fail as esport no matter what.Not only because of incompetence,but also because he's not playing this game since middle of 2012(its obvious to everyone who read reasons why he patch some units)
TL stuff can ban me,for that post.I dont care anymore.I have very little faith in that community anymore.Stop being that blind.
Its painfull to see how people seriously discuss "balance" while plane named "starcraft2" is on fire,flying down to the ground,to the destructible rocks and 3hour swarmhost stalemates.
Its painfull to "designed balance discussion" while game is so freaking boring for alot of ex-players , ex-viewers.
Its painfull to see how Lalush tried to saved that game from being SOOOO boring,but being unheard for a majority of sc2 community.
Its painfull to see how peoples start hating players for stalemating games for 3 hours,instead of hating game for possibility of that.(remember ti2 in dota?, nobody hate players for being boring,everyone asked devs to fix game).
Before saving "balance" save starcraft 2 for being much more boring than sc:bw...Than LoL or dota2...Than goat simulator or minecraft atleast.
I am done.
User was temp banned for this post.
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this video was so incredibly interesting, a true eye opener on micro issues.
Thanks for bumping the thread
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To Rhythmic.
I can personally understand a lot of your points but i do not believe that the balance of the game is where the problem is. The problem is in the players options to be better than a lesser player.
There are less things you need to be good at in order to get to the same level as other players.
In addition to this lack of depth there is also the fact that some units just dont control as intuitively as one would want them to. I mean seriously that oracle example in the video sums it up perfectly. Why do they have to make controlling groups of air units harder than they should be?
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On November 02 2014 19:40 Rhythmic wrote:
TL stuff can ban me,for that post.I dont care anymore.I have very little faith in that community anymore.Stop being that blind.
User was temp banned for this post.
While I feel your frustration, beeing a martyr gets you banned on tl 
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On November 02 2014 18:39 Maniak_ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2014 16:52 Cascade wrote:
For example, is there a way to make moving shot visible for someone that has no idea about the entire concept of moving shots? Some cool animation or visual effect maybe? It's basically stutter stepping enabled for everyone (well not really but visually it's in the same ballpark). As far as I know, casuals "get" stutter stepping. They see a group of units firing frequently while getting away/around units that should be able to hit them. I fail to see the issue with enabling this for more/most units on the basis that casuals wouldn't understand. Also, isn't it the job of the casters to highlight this kind of things for the viewers? They do it for stutter stepping, they do it for splits, what's so special with 'moving shot' that they can't do the same? And actual issue would be the balance impact of this change, but that can be addressed further down the line. Fear for balance should not be a roadblock for improvements on the game design. And making units more microable, hence raising the skill ceiling and making the game more active and exciting is an improvement on the game design. Balance can always be tweaked afterwards. It's already constantly being tweaked anyway.
I completely agree with this.
On November 02 2014 17:33 404AlphaSquad wrote:
And LoL is a mess for a newb to watch. It doesnt have anything to do with that.
I never have any idea whats going on when I see LoL played just flashy effects all over the screen and then suddenly everyone's dead and I have no idea which team won. I think it's just a weak excuse. Noone had trouble understanding Muta (or other air units) clumping in BW
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Interesting thread and video. I have been watching BW and SC2 but only played both games casually (but actually since vanilla SC starting in 1998 if I remember correctly). My first RTS was Dune2 (or Herzog Zwei if you count that).
1.) Latency
Some micro moves are reliant on good latency or in other words require LAN to work consistently. LAN is a decision above David Kim's paygrade and would not work out for the current tournament structure (online qualifiers etc.). This not an excuse to not implement many of the changes LaLush suggested but it should be considered. Better players than me could judge which micro moves are useable with 100-150ms latency.
2.) APM and moves
In SC2 many potential micro moves (Roach Burrow, Phoenix vs Corrupters) are not used a lot even by pro players due to APM limits. If I understand the intentions of the dev team in LotV the focus is to split up the deathballs and have more smaller skirmishes all over the map. This will give micro an increased importance and therefore improving micro possibilities should be worth it.
3.) Micro potential
This is not about balance but about micro potential. My (maybe flawed) observation is that micro potential is not shared evenly. Banelings can rush onto marines and not target Marauders but if the splits are good enough they are not effective enough, same goes for Blink stalkers. If the micro is strong enough the opposing player can't do all that much.
4.) Casual viewers
I'm the definition of the casual viewer and mostly play a bit after seeing a good tournament, realize that in order to improve I would need to spend months of training and usually stop playing after 15 games again. But when watching games the things that excite me the most are the little things. I remember Jaedong's kill of a Zealot with four Zerglings without losing one or great defenses against bunker rushes, while most deathball vs deathball matches bore me. I would love to see more micro play and less spell casting. I think unit vs unit combat should be interesting and not just hard counters. Bisu probes for example were one of the most exciting things to watch and made the early game incredibly interesting.
5.) Archon mode - saviour of SC2?
Archon mode is the thing that might bring me to finally start playing SC2 for more than just some games. Up until now I can watch great moves but I can't replicate them unless I stop macroing completely. Archon Mode will emphasize micro much more. With more small skirmishes this opens up a whole new game.
6. What can be done?
Make a mod that showcases these changes for the beta and get top tier players to showcase how exciting games can be. Arguments alone won't be enough but an excited community may very well be.
7.) Conclusion
I think it's good to fight for these improvements without falling into the BW vs SC2 trap. I don't need to understand how a move is done to be excited about it. I don't know how Lionel Messi touches the ball in football precisely but I'm still amazed by how he plays.
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Dominican Republic627 Posts
On November 02 2014 19:40 Rhythmic wrote:
Hello guys.Sorry for bad english,but i hope this wall of text will still be understandable.
I wrote all that because i love this game.
I didnt played starcraft 2 for almost 1 year(quited in 2month after oracle patch).I was 2 times GM terran in hots,befor that i was C,C+ Broodwar player,and i didnt played last year of WoL.Tired of 15minutes long same games in tvz/tvp.I was in some eu ML/GM team.Only one of ~20 players is still playing starcraft more than 1 time per month.
Since that moment i almost didnt watch the scene,but when i do,i saw same strategies over and over again.Same "amazing fungles", "amazing baneling hits", "amazing storms","amazing splits".Game didnt progress a bit since that moment.Mech is still unplayable outside ladder.
Since that moment starcraft average viewership drop to 5-10k viewers (20-30kcompared to march 2013).Starcraft is now have average 1/15 viewership compared to other esport discipline,and it still droping.U can see almost every day,it not even on main page of twitch games.
Since that moment wcs-involved casters continue to joke about "esports killers",about "how sc2 is not dead",about "getting sponsors" etc.While reality is much more simple, game had less viewers than "goat simulator" for a WEEK.
LoL or Dota2 is still evolving.It have its unbalanced moments,but this games is "Fun to play and watch over and over again".Counter strike from dead discipline became prime esport because valve is still developing game.
Everybody keep saying about how starcraft2 is "another game" than sc:bw.But for everyone who compared sc:bw units to sc2 analogs is obvious how BW units is more "deep" and fun.And saying that i wanna qoute one person everyone seems like to hate:
"Gameplay always comes first."
And if this is true 1 year after leaving sc2 i can say only one thing:
Broodwar just better and more deep than sc2
Also remember Starbow mod came out?That was much more interesting than ususal ladder games.But blizzard(the few who still developing this game) compared that depht of the game to tower defence arcades.Such competent.
TL and SC2 community can still ranting in almost about "how its complex more to balance RTS than 100+ heroes in moba game".But reality is still more simple.Rock/Paper/scissors is balanced.But nobody gonna watch tournament in that "super balanced" type of esport.
If you dont care about your game.If you patching oracles for "late game harassment".If it took a YEAR to revert a bad widow mine patch.If all u capable of its making destructible rocks and units "faster".That will leads to game being less popular than casual(unbalanced RNG game) hearthstone,goat simulator or even minecraft.
Saying all that.
Starcraft was premier esport for 12 years.And it keep failing hardcore since middle of "non patch super balance era".Since middle of 2012 infestor-all-games-looks-same era.
As long as incompetent peoples who can only make unit faster,make "late game harsment" patches,which prooves that developers dont play this game at all,and patching it absolutly randomly for 2 times per year...as long as David Kim in charge of this game,this game will fail as esport no matter what.Not only because of incompetence,but also because he's not playing this game since middle of 2012(its obvious to everyone who read reasons why he patch some units)
TL stuff can ban me,for that post.I dont care anymore.I have very little faith in that community anymore.Stop being that blind.
Its painfull to see how people seriously discuss "balance" while plane named "starcraft2" is on fire,flying down to the ground,to the destructible rocks and 3hour swarmhost stalemates.
Its painfull to "designed balance discussion" while game is so freaking boring for alot of ex-players , ex-viewers.
Its painfull to see how Lalush tried to saved that game from being SOOOO boring,but being unheard for a majority of sc2 community.
Its painfull to see how peoples start hating players for stalemating games for 3 hours,instead of hating game for possibility of that.(remember ti2 in dota?, nobody hate players for being boring,everyone asked devs to fix game).
Before saving "balance" save starcraft 2 for being much more boring than sc:bw...Than LoL or dota2...Than goat simulator or minecraft atleast.
I am done.
User was temp banned for this post.
i liked this post somehow, i usually defend SC2 over BW since they are in similaritys the same, they do not share the same core.
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On November 02 2014 19:40 Rhythmic wrote:
Hello guys.Sorry for bad english,but i hope this wall of text will still be understandable.
I wrote all that because i love this game.
I didnt played starcraft 2 for almost 1 year(quited in 2month after oracle patch).I was 2 times GM terran in hots,befor that i was C,C+ Broodwar player,and i didnt played last year of WoL.Tired of 15minutes long same games in tvz/tvp.I was in some eu ML/GM team.Only one of ~20 players is still playing starcraft more than 1 time per month.
Since that moment i almost didnt watch the scene,but when i do,i saw same strategies over and over again.Same "amazing fungles", "amazing baneling hits", "amazing storms","amazing splits".Game didnt progress a bit since that moment.Mech is still unplayable outside ladder.
Since that moment starcraft average viewership drop to 5-10k viewers (20-30kcompared to march 2013).Starcraft is now have average 1/15 viewership compared to other esport discipline,and it still droping.U can see almost every day,it not even on main page of twitch games.
Since that moment wcs-involved casters continue to joke about "esports killers",about "how sc2 is not dead",about "getting sponsors" etc.While reality is much more simple, game had less viewers than "goat simulator" for a WEEK.
LoL or Dota2 is still evolving.It have its unbalanced moments,but this games is "Fun to play and watch over and over again".Counter strike from dead discipline became prime esport because valve is still developing game.
Everybody keep saying about how starcraft2 is "another game" than sc:bw.But for everyone who compared sc:bw units to sc2 analogs is obvious how BW units is more "deep" and fun.And saying that i wanna qoute one person everyone seems like to hate:
"Gameplay always comes first."
And if this is true 1 year after leaving sc2 i can say only one thing:
Broodwar just better and more deep than sc2
Also remember Starbow mod came out?That was much more interesting than ususal ladder games.But blizzard(the few who still developing this game) compared that depht of the game to tower defence arcades.Such competent.
TL and SC2 community can still ranting in almost about "how its complex more to balance RTS than 100+ heroes in moba game".But reality is still more simple.Rock/Paper/scissors is balanced.But nobody gonna watch tournament in that "super balanced" type of esport.
If you dont care about your game.If you patching oracles for "late game harassment".If it took a YEAR to revert a bad widow mine patch.If all u capable of its making destructible rocks and units "faster".That will leads to game being less popular than casual(unbalanced RNG game) hearthstone,goat simulator or even minecraft.
Saying all that.
Starcraft was premier esport for 12 years.And it keep failing hardcore since middle of "non patch super balance era".Since middle of 2012 infestor-all-games-looks-same era.
As long as incompetent peoples who can only make unit faster,make "late game harsment" patches,which prooves that developers dont play this game at all,and patching it absolutly randomly for 2 times per year...as long as David Kim in charge of this game,this game will fail as esport no matter what.Not only because of incompetence,but also because he's not playing this game since middle of 2012(its obvious to everyone who read reasons why he patch some units)
TL stuff can ban me,for that post.I dont care anymore.I have very little faith in that community anymore.Stop being that blind.
Its painfull to see how people seriously discuss "balance" while plane named "starcraft2" is on fire,flying down to the ground,to the destructible rocks and 3hour swarmhost stalemates.
Its painfull to "designed balance discussion" while game is so freaking boring for alot of ex-players , ex-viewers.
Its painfull to see how Lalush tried to saved that game from being SOOOO boring,but being unheard for a majority of sc2 community.
Its painfull to see how peoples start hating players for stalemating games for 3 hours,instead of hating game for possibility of that.(remember ti2 in dota?, nobody hate players for being boring,everyone asked devs to fix game).
Before saving "balance" save starcraft 2 for being much more boring than sc:bw...Than LoL or dota2...Than goat simulator or minecraft atleast.
I am done.
User was temp banned for this post.
I personally prefer SC2 over the goat simulator, just sayin.
EDIT : If goat simulator is a real game, that sounds amazing by the way.
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On December 03 2014 09:56 Hildegard wrote:
Arguments alone won't be enough but an excited community may very well be.
I don't agree with this. Also I would say that this video caused enough excitement in the community until David Kim shut it down by saying he doesn't like it cause the micro isn't visible enough for him. This still gets brought up regularly in every highly rated wishlist for LotV. I don't think an excited community will be enough, we just need to luck out that Blizzard doesn't decide to be stubborn on the matter.
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I really want to see the air unit pathing get reworked how can we make this happen? I know blizzard loves for us to use their forums. Can we get an offical TL Put Depth of Micro in SC2 thread of blizzards website and keep it going just like how we want lurker back stuff.
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Hey guys, with recent discussion on Remax from the caller i instantly had to watch this vid again..and man than air movement is so awesome, i dont understand why anyone would think its hard to see micro for the view?If anything it makes it easier to see and appreciate good micro o.o
The micro in itself with lower Damage point etc. looks way more impressive than all the micro we can currently do.
Do you guys think theres any way we can make Blizzard discuss this once again or has the ship sailed after DK shut it down 1 time already during HOTS beta years ago?
I wish we could get Psione or someone from Blizz to rewatch the video and see how easily tweakable it would be to have more microable units and less 1 click spellmicro.
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United Kingdom20342 Posts
On December 03 2014 11:11 GGzerG wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2014 19:40 Rhythmic wrote:
Hello guys.Sorry for bad english,but i hope this wall of text will still be understandable.
I wrote all that because i love this game.
I didnt played starcraft 2 for almost 1 year(quited in 2month after oracle patch).I was 2 times GM terran in hots,befor that i was C,C+ Broodwar player,and i didnt played last year of WoL.Tired of 15minutes long same games in tvz/tvp.I was in some eu ML/GM team.Only one of ~20 players is still playing starcraft more than 1 time per month.
Since that moment i almost didnt watch the scene,but when i do,i saw same strategies over and over again.Same "amazing fungles", "amazing baneling hits", "amazing storms","amazing splits".Game didnt progress a bit since that moment.Mech is still unplayable outside ladder.
Since that moment starcraft average viewership drop to 5-10k viewers (20-30kcompared to march 2013).Starcraft is now have average 1/15 viewership compared to other esport discipline,and it still droping.U can see almost every day,it not even on main page of twitch games.
Since that moment wcs-involved casters continue to joke about "esports killers",about "how sc2 is not dead",about "getting sponsors" etc.While reality is much more simple, game had less viewers than "goat simulator" for a WEEK.
LoL or Dota2 is still evolving.It have its unbalanced moments,but this games is "Fun to play and watch over and over again".Counter strike from dead discipline became prime esport because valve is still developing game.
Everybody keep saying about how starcraft2 is "another game" than sc:bw.But for everyone who compared sc:bw units to sc2 analogs is obvious how BW units is more "deep" and fun.And saying that i wanna qoute one person everyone seems like to hate:
"Gameplay always comes first."
And if this is true 1 year after leaving sc2 i can say only one thing:
Broodwar just better and more deep than sc2
Also remember Starbow mod came out?That was much more interesting than ususal ladder games.But blizzard(the few who still developing this game) compared that depht of the game to tower defence arcades.Such competent.
TL and SC2 community can still ranting in almost about "how its complex more to balance RTS than 100+ heroes in moba game".But reality is still more simple.Rock/Paper/scissors is balanced.But nobody gonna watch tournament in that "super balanced" type of esport.
If you dont care about your game.If you patching oracles for "late game harassment".If it took a YEAR to revert a bad widow mine patch.If all u capable of its making destructible rocks and units "faster".That will leads to game being less popular than casual(unbalanced RNG game) hearthstone,goat simulator or even minecraft.
Saying all that.
Starcraft was premier esport for 12 years.And it keep failing hardcore since middle of "non patch super balance era".Since middle of 2012 infestor-all-games-looks-same era.
As long as incompetent peoples who can only make unit faster,make "late game harsment" patches,which prooves that developers dont play this game at all,and patching it absolutly randomly for 2 times per year...as long as David Kim in charge of this game,this game will fail as esport no matter what.Not only because of incompetence,but also because he's not playing this game since middle of 2012(its obvious to everyone who read reasons why he patch some units)
TL stuff can ban me,for that post.I dont care anymore.I have very little faith in that community anymore.Stop being that blind.
Its painfull to see how people seriously discuss "balance" while plane named "starcraft2" is on fire,flying down to the ground,to the destructible rocks and 3hour swarmhost stalemates.
Its painfull to "designed balance discussion" while game is so freaking boring for alot of ex-players , ex-viewers.
Its painfull to see how Lalush tried to saved that game from being SOOOO boring,but being unheard for a majority of sc2 community.
Its painfull to see how peoples start hating players for stalemating games for 3 hours,instead of hating game for possibility of that.(remember ti2 in dota?, nobody hate players for being boring,everyone asked devs to fix game).
Before saving "balance" save starcraft 2 for being much more boring than sc:bw...Than LoL or dota2...Than goat simulator or minecraft atleast.
I am done.
User was temp banned for this post. I personally prefer SC2 over the goat simulator, just sayin. EDIT : If goat simulator is a real game, that sounds amazing by the way.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/265930/
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On November 02 2014 21:14 Areaz wrote:
To Rhythmic.
I can personally understand a lot of your points but i do not believe that the balance of the game is where the problem is. The problem is in the players options to be better than a lesser player.
There are less things you need to be good at in order to get to the same level as other players.
In addition to this lack of depth there is also the fact that some units just dont control as intuitively as one would want them to. I mean seriously that oracle example in the video sums it up perfectly. Why do they have to make controlling groups of air units harder than they should be?
Not sure if there are less things to be good at but they are definitively easier, but you also have alot less time to do things. Sounds like it would equalize itself. But you have way more options in Sc2 on what to do. And because Sc2 is faster, you have less time to find out more things the opponent might be doing.
I was thinking about BW and Sc2 and came to the conclusion that their design aims are to different to really compare both games. Even the balance approach is different. In BW no one cared that Marines were crap in 2 matchups and many other units as well. In Sc2 everything has to work everywhere at best. Thats why people can just play one style and win tournaments with it. They just have to evade people that play a style that is good against theirs.
Personally I think they try to achieve way to many aims with Sc2. Perfect balance, most units can work in every matchup, a certain match duration and easy to learn hard to master. The limitations that they set themself with that are huge. They did an extremely good job so far on all aims though, especially if you keep in mind that the options they have are so limited.
Also BW was way easier to follow as a viewer, you can easily identify superior mechanics. But noticing superior decision making, especially if you have way more intel then a player, is rather hard to appreciate.
Well LotV looks like it will up the options to spend apm, while not even Koreans are able to keep up with the game(on the fastest gamespeed) and stick to units that work well on their own and require mostly easy micro. So I am curious how LotV will turn out. HotS looked more apm intensive at the beginning as well, then every unit was remodeled into not micro intensive.
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Even the balance approach is different. In BW no one cared that Marines were crap in 2 matchups and many other units as well. In Sc2 everything has to work everywhere at best. Thats why people can just play one style and win tournaments with it. They just have to evade people that play a style that is good against theirs.
I don't understand your thought process. First you declare that in Broodwar some stuff was just crap (I'll come back to that in the next paragraph), from which I would draw you are more limited in what you have to play in Broodwar to begin with and in Starcraft 2 this is less the case. But then you jump to the conclusion that in Starcraft you can win by evading someone who counters your style, which I thought wasn't possible because the style is balanced to work against everything to begin with.
Also I think the premise just isn't right. Mech vs Protoss, roach/hydra vs bio-Terran is quite a niche build, Protoss is more or less pidgeonholed into relatively fast colossi and then eventually they need templar vs Terran. Zerg against Protoss is very reactive to begin with for both sides, where, yes, most units are useful in the matchup overall but you cannot play them if your opponent just doesn't play in certain ways.
Personally I think they try to achieve way to many aims with Sc2. Perfect balance, most units can work in every matchup, a certain match duration and easy to learn hard to master. The limitations that they set themself with that are huge.
If you want a strategy game though, there have to be various options and various ways to counter those options. That's the strategic part. Though I think having 3 very different races in a game is unnecessary at this point with the RTS experience we have. Most people just do not play all 3 races to begin with, so the amount of contend is more than required but the balancing and design becomes much harder. #cutProtossoutofLotV
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Did Blizzard fix any of these bugs as described in Lalush video for Legacy of the Void?
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Nice video. I never would have dared to say micro felt worse in SC2 without this kind of proof.
Heroes of the Storm turn rates feel like crap.
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On May 10 2015 13:41 obesechicken13 wrote:
Nice video. I never would have dared to say micro felt worse in SC2 without this kind of proof.
Heroes of the Storm turn rates feel like crap.
it's more or less the same as original WC3 dota.
it actually adds to the characters, attack animation delay etc are part of what makes the hero
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On May 10 2015 13:58 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2015 13:41 obesechicken13 wrote:
Nice video. I never would have dared to say micro felt worse in SC2 without this kind of proof.
Heroes of the Storm turn rates feel like crap. it's more or less the same as original WC3 dota. it actually adds to the characters, attack animation delay etc are part of what makes the hero
It is but I feel it gives me less options to work with. For instance Mirana's jump moves in the direction you're facing. I want to jump in response to Void's time walk. I have to turn first before I use my jump, but before I've finished turning, Void's casted his ultimate and now I'll die in that chrono unless an ally saves me.
I preferred BW's responsive unit design to WC3's.
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Bisutopia19371 Posts
Nooooo. Don't bump brilliant threads that should have changed the game as we know it. Next thing we know the hydraroach thread will return and elephant in the room article becomes relevant as we all wait for league of legends players to retire and flood the sc2 scene.
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On May 10 2015 14:09 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2015 13:58 ETisME wrote:On May 10 2015 13:41 obesechicken13 wrote:
Nice video. I never would have dared to say micro felt worse in SC2 without this kind of proof.
Heroes of the Storm turn rates feel like crap. it's more or less the same as original WC3 dota. it actually adds to the characters, attack animation delay etc are part of what makes the hero It is but I feel it gives me less options to work with. For instance Mirana's jump moves in the direction you're facing. I want to jump in response to Void's time walk. I have to turn first before I use my jump, but before I've finished turning, Void's casted his ultimate and now I'll die in that chrono unless an ally saves me. I preferred BW's responsive unit design to WC3's.
And that is personal preference.
It makes the void player able to time his ulI and you as a player needs to be aware of your own turn rate.
Lol pretty much has no turn rate and some likes it (and no body block) but honestly its just a games characteristics
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EPT
