I do not understand why so many people here are getting annoyed/angry about betrayals and alliances. In my eyes the entire point of The Genius has been about playing the players rather than playing the game. The game itself isn't as important as how you deal with the other players.
Although I do agree about the death matches. Death matches should be based on skill but also being able to get help from allies, not solely based on forming alliances in order to win.
On December 31 2013 19:52 DaftFunk wrote: SPOILERS~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
everyone here is right about the betrayal of Eunkyul. I felt the same way and had the same though process of Jinho. You just dont do that.. i dont feel bad for him necessarily but its really disgusting to see them basically give him away little by little as if his contribution did nothing for them. if they didnt want his deal, they shouldnt have LET HIM CHEAT FOR THEM or NOT AGREE TO HIS PLANS!!!!
but what bugs me more.... are these stupid "Deathmatches", where its now become more of a popularity contest. I wholeheartedly believe the producers pull out the "SUN MOON STAR" game whenever a popular contestant goes to the deathmatch.
**** If you guys didnt know this before, but noh hongchul and jiwon are both really famous in korean television. i know people in this thread only see him as the guy in the gangnam style music video, but he is actually on... lets say ryan seacrests level of fame in korea in terms of exposure. so while 80% of these other contestants here are really nobodies, hes actually a huge star of the show. so its not a coincedence as to why you guys like him so much... he also DOES have great charisma and personality.
ji won is also really popular and could be the second most famous person on the show right now. hes been in so many tv shows already with other famous people in korea and is really funny (he plays that "im kind of slow" character a lot). side note hes related to the last korean president which could also be why hes so rich...
so while someo f you might not have seen them before this season, but i was geniunely surprised they managed to get 2 of these stars onto the show. that also really explains why i believe the producers (and by now you should realize they always choose which deathmatch game gets to be played at the END of the episode, not preset) choose the sun moon star game. it has no luck. theres VERY LITTLE SKILL involved, which is only the bluffing aspect. but that will not affect the outcome so much as to help you win. the OTHER PLAYERS practically choose who they want to have stay. OBVIOUSLY the majority of people will help jiwon, not only because eunkyul backstabbed his team, but because jiwon has MORE FRIENDS, MORE POPULAR, (not to mention, would you look at how that lawyer ALWAYS goes to the side with the first deathmatch contestant to make sure she doesnt get picked???? even when she gets picked for DM, she does her puppy eyes and tries to gains everyone support. reminds me on kyungran from season 1 all the time..) and bottom line he is MORE FAMOUS than the magician. and trust me.. koreans feel the same way about illusionists in korea the same way we do here in the us with MINDFREAK CHRIS ANGEL or DAVID ZOMGMAGIC COPPERFIELD.. its kind of corny.
bottom line the deathmatches seem to be brought out whenever a star of the show is in jeopardy. and theres nothing genius about it at all. in fact it ruins the future episodes as now as someone pointed out there is going to be a more tightly knit team of those same group of people and kind of destroys the fun. too bad it probably wont beused as a deathmatch anymore because its getting into the mid stages of the season and they cant keep pulling it off. yes im bitter. not because i liked the magician (like i said, i think theyre corny), but they AGREED to his proposition when they followed his plans, and they all except yellow and junghyun intentionally gave him away when jiwon had to choose his opponent.
beyond that, yellow looks to be in strong contention to win again. its shocking to see how much of a joke boxer is. i wont sugar coat it, sorry guys. but boxer plain isnt the genius we expected him to be.
What does corny means? Is it something positive or negative?
Corny kinda means like. Cheesy. It's typically seen as negative, but it can be somewhat positive in certain stances.
I am kind of baffled. I feel corny is negative too, but I saw David Copperfield name. I thought people will use positive thing to describe David Copperfield.
As much as I dislike Eunkyul doing so random, or high level stuff (to eliminate Jiwon in this episode).
But Yooyoung giving him away to Yoonsun, & reasoning shouldn't help Eunkyul to the end because his help is not deciding.
I just feel, Yooyoung wan Eunkyul to be eliminated because she finds him two timing very bad/irritating. And forgot his contribution. I just feel Yooyoung downplay Eunkyul contribution to justify her motive.
Hanlon's razor... I'm pretty sure she never initially intended to give Eunkyul away to Yoonsun, it's a silly mistake, hence her facial reaction after Yoonsun pointed the mistake out. (Remember, I did call her a silly, maybe blooper is better, genius earlier). Though, given that, she definately didn't seem to handle it properly afterward, as Yellow pointed out aswell.
Guess Eunkyul put her off too much when Eunkyul explained his reasonings for betraying his team, and in the manner he did so.
I take it I'm not the only one waiting for a 'genius' moment like Yellow had during 'Open, Pass' (s1e07)? Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoy the show, but it's more due to being quite funny, instead of 'true genius' moments.
But that is how I relay my message across when I am in mid school. I wan to let sum1 noe she is not invited. I do the same thing as Yooyoung. And she found out and got angry, I got scared.
YooYoung expression just remind me of the exact expression I made.
Sometimes, I still use subtle ways, to get my message across. U noe , in work place where there is similar politics.
Yes, could be (although I really, really doubt it to be so). In which case I prefer giving someone the benefit of the doubt (hence Hanlon's razor), rather than condemning them.
Yellow reasoning of helping Eunkyul is exactly, same as mine. I will do the same and help Eunkyul, all the way, because we have to protect the spy, when we decide to put him into our team. It is mutual. It is easy to understand.
Yooyoung reasoning of not helping Eunkyul because his betray do not contribute so significant. Feels .erm, weak? It feels like there is deeper reason than this.
That is my context, what I want to express in my previous statement/comment. The real reason I wrote what I feel. Anyway, I just wrote Yooyoung giving away Yoonsun. That is all. I did give benefit of the doubt. I didnt noe she did it on purpose or not.
You specifically stated that you used to do the same thing as Yooyoung (faking the surprise), that is blaming her for something which could very well be explained by being a mistake. That is what Hanlon's razor is about, 'Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.' Seeing as you can't be sure, I don't believe you should be condemning her as fast as you lot are. Besides that, you can't say that Eunkyul hasn't done the same to Jaekyung. Nor was Eunkyul very eloquent and smart about his explanation to 'out' Jiwon. Which in turn put off alot of his support, Hongchul betraying him and Yooyoung not helping him.
When I saw the scene for the first time, I had the impression that she made a mistake and the lawyer had a good read in sniffing out what was wrong. But the following scenes showed her secretely telling Jinwo who was who was the betrayer, so I am really not sure. I think it is more likely that she intentionally "tipped" the lawyer, but impossible to say for sure.
Same goes for you. Why assume she had the intention all along to betray Eunkyul? The secret was already out after Yooyoung's mistake, so there's little reward in trying to keep a secret to people who already 'know' it's not so. Don't forget that Eunkyul wasn't very nice in his explanation for outing Jiwon. After which the acknowledgments of Eunkyul being the spy came out.
------
Deathmatches would be better if they're individual tests I guess. However, that also wouldn't be very fair for those 'geniuses' who rely on their charisma and feeling (which in my opinion is also a form of genius).
Never got so upset before watching an episode. Betrayals and stuff are fair game in the main game. You have ways and time for interaction, to prevent it, or come up with a counter-plan. If anything, the game design actually favours the one who sacrifice himself and risk his own life in the deathmatch. By right in episode 2 and 4, the one who has the balls to help others win would gain the majority support from the winning team itself.
Betrayal in deathmatch is another story. It's a true betrayal where the deathmatch participants could not do anything. I'm not even a fan of the magician. But the way they used him as a tool this game, then abandoning him once they got their own immunity was just disgusting. They were just hypocrites who think they have not done anything wrong because they were 'passive' in the deathmatch. If only the justification to eliminate him was because he's a strong participant, that i could understand.
I will be rooting for jinho, the congressman, and maybe boxer if he starts showing brilliance in future games. They know how politics work, especially the congressman. It just happens that he won every game lol, but even if he was in the losing team, i doubt anyone would choose him. He's pretending to be weak and only wins because of luck, so anyone could choose to eliminate him easily later on. And he doesn't make any alliance nor enemies, so nobody will feel threatened to eliminate him so early yet. The way he looks at the participants, i get shivers down my spine. It seems like he is constantly reading others' mind.
If you're talking about using others as a tool, please look back at episode 2 when the magician blatantly encourages everyone to use jaekyung as a tool in the DM to gain more garnets. Downright despicable. Downright disgusting. After watching all the episodes, I think he definitely deserved this. The same way he always treated others.Used as a tool and then tossed away.
The magician was never on Jaekyung's team to begin with. He never made a deal to help her either. Rather, it's the lawyer who promised to help Jaekyung, but ended up helping Noh for more garnets and a promise to not be selected for death match in the future. In the end, EVERYONE bid on Noh. There is a distinct difference between the magician's betrayal and the general betrayal that made Yellow, who has experienced every minute of the Genius in both seasons, to be the unhappiest he has ever been on the show.
I feel like the broadcaster/TV personality alliance is similar to the music industry alliance last season... except that the music industry alliance has players that are actually competitive. So naturally, there are two big groups competing with each other in the last season, and the alliances are more stable than this season, which has boiled down to Yellow vs the challenger of the week. As much as I like yellow to dominate, there really needs to be another player (or group of players) who can fight with him on even grounds to make the show more interesting. While this season may be more competitive due to how tryhard everyone is (Gura would rather go death match than play rock paper scissors to look bad versus Boxer who got down on his knees and begged, Poong accepted his fate, while the Lawyer strongarmed herself into the winning alliance), it has become stale in the lack of diversity of approach on the game. We just get a betrayal and then a supergroup at the end because everyone wants to survive, and no one is being held accountable for the mistake in the main game.
Never got so upset before watching an episode. Betrayals and stuff are fair game in the main game. You have ways and time for interaction, to prevent it, or come up with a counter-plan. If anything, the game design actually favours the one who sacrifice himself and risk his own life in the deathmatch. By right in episode 2 and 4, the one who has the balls to help others win would gain the majority support from the winning team itself.
Betrayal in deathmatch is another story. It's a true betrayal where the deathmatch participants could not do anything. I'm not even a fan of the magician. But the way they used him as a tool this game, then abandoning him once they got their own immunity was just disgusting. They were just hypocrites who think they have not done anything wrong because they were 'passive' in the deathmatch. If only the justification to eliminate him was because he's a strong participant, that i could understand.
I will be rooting for jinho, the congressman, and maybe boxer if he starts showing brilliance in future games. They know how politics work, especially the congressman. It just happens that he won every game lol, but even if he was in the losing team, i doubt anyone would choose him. He's pretending to be weak and only wins because of luck, so anyone could choose to eliminate him easily later on. And he doesn't make any alliance nor enemies, so nobody will feel threatened to eliminate him so early yet. The way he looks at the participants, i get shivers down my spine. It seems like he is constantly reading others' mind.
If you're talking about using others as a tool, please look back at episode 2 when the magician blatantly encourages everyone to use jaekyung as a tool in the DM to gain more garnets. Downright despicable. Downright disgusting. After watching all the episodes, I think he definitely deserved this. The same way he always treated others.Used as a tool and then tossed away.
The magician was never on Jaekyung's team to begin with. He never made a deal to help her either. Rather, it's the lawyer who promised to help Jaekyung, but ended up helping Noh for more garnets and a promise to not be selected for death match in the future. In the end, EVERYONE bid on Noh. There is a distinct difference between the magician's betrayal and the general betrayal that made Yellow, who has experienced every minute of the Genius in both seasons, to be the unhappiest he has ever been on the show.
I feel like the broadcaster/TV personality alliance is similar to the music industry alliance last season... except that the music industry alliance has players that are actually competitive. So naturally, there are two big groups competing with each other in the last season, and the alliances are more stable than this season, which has boiled down to Yellow vs the challenger of the week. As much as I like yellow to dominate, there really needs to be another player (or group of players) who can fight with him on even grounds to make the show more interesting. While this season may be more competitive due to how tryhard everyone is (Gura would rather go death match than play rock paper scissors to look bad versus Boxer who got down on his knees and begged, Poong accepted his fate, while the Lawyer strongarmed herself into the winning alliance), it has become stale in the lack of diversity of approach on the game. We just get a betrayal and then a supergroup at the end because everyone wants to survive, and no one is being held accountable for the mistake in the main game.
If only the dude from ep 1 was around. He felt like the greatest threat to Yellow. He felt someone who wouldn't just go with the natural flow of things, and wanted to win.
On December 31 2013 19:52 DaftFunk wrote: SPOILERS~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
everyone here is right about the betrayal of Eunkyul. I felt the same way and had the same though process of Jinho. You just dont do that.. i dont feel bad for him necessarily but its really disgusting to see them basically give him away little by little as if his contribution did nothing for them. if they didnt want his deal, they shouldnt have LET HIM CHEAT FOR THEM or NOT AGREE TO HIS PLANS!!!!
but what bugs me more.... are these stupid "Deathmatches", where its now become more of a popularity contest. I wholeheartedly believe the producers pull out the "SUN MOON STAR" game whenever a popular contestant goes to the deathmatch.
**** If you guys didnt know this before, but noh hongchul and jiwon are both really famous in korean television. i know people in this thread only see him as the guy in the gangnam style music video, but he is actually on... lets say ryan seacrests level of fame in korea in terms of exposure. so while 80% of these other contestants here are really nobodies, hes actually a huge star of the show. so its not a coincedence as to why you guys like him so much... he also DOES have great charisma and personality.
ji won is also really popular and could be the second most famous person on the show right now. hes been in so many tv shows already with other famous people in korea and is really funny (he plays that "im kind of slow" character a lot). side note hes related to the last korean president which could also be why hes so rich...
so while someo f you might not have seen them before this season, but i was geniunely surprised they managed to get 2 of these stars onto the show. that also really explains why i believe the producers (and by now you should realize they always choose which deathmatch game gets to be played at the END of the episode, not preset) choose the sun moon star game. it has no luck. theres VERY LITTLE SKILL involved, which is only the bluffing aspect. but that will not affect the outcome so much as to help you win. the OTHER PLAYERS practically choose who they want to have stay. OBVIOUSLY the majority of people will help jiwon, not only because eunkyul backstabbed his team, but because jiwon has MORE FRIENDS, MORE POPULAR, (not to mention, would you look at how that lawyer ALWAYS goes to the side with the first deathmatch contestant to make sure she doesnt get picked???? even when she gets picked for DM, she does her puppy eyes and tries to gains everyone support. reminds me on kyungran from season 1 all the time..) and bottom line he is MORE FAMOUS than the magician. and trust me.. koreans feel the same way about illusionists in korea the same way we do here in the us with MINDFREAK CHRIS ANGEL or DAVID ZOMGMAGIC COPPERFIELD.. its kind of corny.
bottom line the deathmatches seem to be brought out whenever a star of the show is in jeopardy. and theres nothing genius about it at all. in fact it ruins the future episodes as now as someone pointed out there is going to be a more tightly knit team of those same group of people and kind of destroys the fun. too bad it probably wont beused as a deathmatch anymore because its getting into the mid stages of the season and they cant keep pulling it off. yes im bitter. not because i liked the magician (like i said, i think theyre corny), but they AGREED to his proposition when they followed his plans, and they all except yellow and junghyun intentionally gave him away when jiwon had to choose his opponent.
beyond that, yellow looks to be in strong contention to win again. its shocking to see how much of a joke boxer is. i wont sugar coat it, sorry guys. but boxer plain isnt the genius we expected him to be.
What does corny means? Is it something positive or negative?
Corny kinda means like. Cheesy. It's typically seen as negative, but it can be somewhat positive in certain stances.
I am kind of baffled. I feel corny is negative too, but I saw David Copperfield name. I thought people will use positive thing to describe David Copperfield.
As much as I dislike Eunkyul doing so random, or high level stuff (to eliminate Jiwon in this episode).
But Yooyoung giving him away to Yoonsun, & reasoning shouldn't help Eunkyul to the end because his help is not deciding.
I just feel, Yooyoung wan Eunkyul to be eliminated because she finds him two timing very bad/irritating. And forgot his contribution. I just feel Yooyoung downplay Eunkyul contribution to justify her motive.
Hanlon's razor... I'm pretty sure she never initially intended to give Eunkyul away to Yoonsun, it's a silly mistake, hence her facial reaction after Yoonsun pointed the mistake out. (Remember, I did call her a silly, maybe blooper is better, genius earlier). Though, given that, she definately didn't seem to handle it properly afterward, as Yellow pointed out aswell.
Guess Eunkyul put her off too much when Eunkyul explained his reasonings for betraying his team, and in the manner he did so.
I take it I'm not the only one waiting for a 'genius' moment like Yellow had during 'Open, Pass' (s1e07)? Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoy the show, but it's more due to being quite funny, instead of 'true genius' moments.
But that is how I relay my message across when I am in mid school. I wan to let sum1 noe she is not invited. I do the same thing as Yooyoung. And she found out and got angry, I got scared.
YooYoung expression just remind me of the exact expression I made.
Sometimes, I still use subtle ways, to get my message across. U noe , in work place where there is similar politics.
Yes, could be (although I really, really doubt it to be so). In which case I prefer giving someone the benefit of the doubt (hence Hanlon's razor), rather than condemning them.
Yellow reasoning of helping Eunkyul is exactly, same as mine. I will do the same and help Eunkyul, all the way, because we have to protect the spy, when we decide to put him into our team. It is mutual. It is easy to understand.
Yooyoung reasoning of not helping Eunkyul because his betray do not contribute so significant. Feels .erm, weak? It feels like there is deeper reason than this.
That is my context, what I want to express in my previous statement/comment. The real reason I wrote what I feel. Anyway, I just wrote Yooyoung giving away Yoonsun. That is all. I did give benefit of the doubt. I didnt noe she did it on purpose or not.
You specifically stated that you used to do the same thing as Yooyoung (faking the surprise), that is blaming her for something which could very well be explained by being a mistake. That is what Hanlon's razor is about, 'Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.' Seeing as you can't be sure, I don't believe you should be condemning her as fast as you lot are. Besides that, you can't say that Eunkyul hasn't done the same to Jaekyung. Nor was Eunkyul very eloquent and smart about his explanation to 'out' Jiwon. Which in turn put off alot of his support, Hongchul betraying him and Yooyoung not helping him.
When I saw the scene for the first time, I had the impression that she made a mistake and the lawyer had a good read in sniffing out what was wrong. But the following scenes showed her secretely telling Jinwo who was who was the betrayer, so I am really not sure. I think it is more likely that she intentionally "tipped" the lawyer, but impossible to say for sure.
Same goes for you. Why assume she had the intention all along to betray Eunkyul? The secret was already out after Yooyoung's mistake, so there's little reward in trying to keep a secret to people who already 'know' it's not so. Don't forget that Eunkyul wasn't very nice in his explanation for outing Jiwon. After which the acknowledgments of Eunkyul being the spy came out.
------
Deathmatches would be better if they're individual tests I guess. However, that also wouldn't be very fair for those 'geniuses' who rely on their charisma and feeling (which in my opinion is also a form of genius).
That why I said it. I didnt condem her. You suspect I am condeming her. So I ask for benefit of the doubt. U didnt noe my intention. Even after I write it again
Maybe I made this clear 1 more time.
Yellow express his thoughts, he wants the team to support the magician because the team accepted his help. They should (not forget the debt and repay back). （知恩图报）
However, Yooyoung said she felt there isn't a need to, reason Magician didnt help much. In the end （she helped Jiwon instead) （恩将仇报）
I felt that the reason she give is weak, maybe there is other reasons. So I give my suspicion of her motive. So people could discuss in this discussion thread.
My original post is never about did yooyoung purposely give away Yoonsun the magician or she did it by accident. This is minor detail, there is nothing to discuss. Whether she did it purposely or not.
But then comes the hanor razor. So I reply, hanor razor pls, no hardfeelings. Give me benefit of the doubt. And u then come ur reply. So can I ask for Hanor Razor again?
By the way, are we in this endless argument, because we are both righteous person? Or trying to "hanlon razor" something out of it?
On December 31 2013 19:52 DaftFunk wrote: SPOILERS~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
everyone here is right about the betrayal of Eunkyul. I felt the same way and had the same though process of Jinho. You just dont do that.. i dont feel bad for him necessarily but its really disgusting to see them basically give him away little by little as if his contribution did nothing for them. if they didnt want his deal, they shouldnt have LET HIM CHEAT FOR THEM or NOT AGREE TO HIS PLANS!!!!
but what bugs me more.... are these stupid "Deathmatches", where its now become more of a popularity contest. I wholeheartedly believe the producers pull out the "SUN MOON STAR" game whenever a popular contestant goes to the deathmatch.
**** If you guys didnt know this before, but noh hongchul and jiwon are both really famous in korean television. i know people in this thread only see him as the guy in the gangnam style music video, but he is actually on... lets say ryan seacrests level of fame in korea in terms of exposure. so while 80% of these other contestants here are really nobodies, hes actually a huge star of the show. so its not a coincedence as to why you guys like him so much... he also DOES have great charisma and personality.
ji won is also really popular and could be the second most famous person on the show right now. hes been in so many tv shows already with other famous people in korea and is really funny (he plays that "im kind of slow" character a lot). side note hes related to the last korean president which could also be why hes so rich...
so while someo f you might not have seen them before this season, but i was geniunely surprised they managed to get 2 of these stars onto the show. that also really explains why i believe the producers (and by now you should realize they always choose which deathmatch game gets to be played at the END of the episode, not preset) choose the sun moon star game. it has no luck. theres VERY LITTLE SKILL involved, which is only the bluffing aspect. but that will not affect the outcome so much as to help you win. the OTHER PLAYERS practically choose who they want to have stay. OBVIOUSLY the majority of people will help jiwon, not only because eunkyul backstabbed his team, but because jiwon has MORE FRIENDS, MORE POPULAR, (not to mention, would you look at how that lawyer ALWAYS goes to the side with the first deathmatch contestant to make sure she doesnt get picked???? even when she gets picked for DM, she does her puppy eyes and tries to gains everyone support. reminds me on kyungran from season 1 all the time..) and bottom line he is MORE FAMOUS than the magician. and trust me.. koreans feel the same way about illusionists in korea the same way we do here in the us with MINDFREAK CHRIS ANGEL or DAVID ZOMGMAGIC COPPERFIELD.. its kind of corny.
bottom line the deathmatches seem to be brought out whenever a star of the show is in jeopardy. and theres nothing genius about it at all. in fact it ruins the future episodes as now as someone pointed out there is going to be a more tightly knit team of those same group of people and kind of destroys the fun. too bad it probably wont beused as a deathmatch anymore because its getting into the mid stages of the season and they cant keep pulling it off. yes im bitter. not because i liked the magician (like i said, i think theyre corny), but they AGREED to his proposition when they followed his plans, and they all except yellow and junghyun intentionally gave him away when jiwon had to choose his opponent.
beyond that, yellow looks to be in strong contention to win again. its shocking to see how much of a joke boxer is. i wont sugar coat it, sorry guys. but boxer plain isnt the genius we expected him to be.
What does corny means? Is it something positive or negative?
Corny kinda means like. Cheesy. It's typically seen as negative, but it can be somewhat positive in certain stances.
I am kind of baffled. I feel corny is negative too, but I saw David Copperfield name. I thought people will use positive thing to describe David Copperfield.
As much as I dislike Eunkyul doing so random, or high level stuff (to eliminate Jiwon in this episode).
But Yooyoung giving him away to Yoonsun, & reasoning shouldn't help Eunkyul to the end because his help is not deciding.
I just feel, Yooyoung wan Eunkyul to be eliminated because she finds him two timing very bad/irritating. And forgot his contribution. I just feel Yooyoung downplay Eunkyul contribution to justify her motive.
Hanlon's razor... I'm pretty sure she never initially intended to give Eunkyul away to Yoonsun, it's a silly mistake, hence her facial reaction after Yoonsun pointed the mistake out. (Remember, I did call her a silly, maybe blooper is better, genius earlier). Though, given that, she definately didn't seem to handle it properly afterward, as Yellow pointed out aswell.
Guess Eunkyul put her off too much when Eunkyul explained his reasonings for betraying his team, and in the manner he did so.
I take it I'm not the only one waiting for a 'genius' moment like Yellow had during 'Open, Pass' (s1e07)? Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoy the show, but it's more due to being quite funny, instead of 'true genius' moments.
But that is how I relay my message across when I am in mid school. I wan to let sum1 noe she is not invited. I do the same thing as Yooyoung. And she found out and got angry, I got scared.
YooYoung expression just remind me of the exact expression I made.
Sometimes, I still use subtle ways, to get my message across. U noe , in work place where there is similar politics.
Yes, could be (although I really, really doubt it to be so). In which case I prefer giving someone the benefit of the doubt (hence Hanlon's razor), rather than condemning them.
Yellow reasoning of helping Eunkyul is exactly, same as mine. I will do the same and help Eunkyul, all the way, because we have to protect the spy, when we decide to put him into our team. It is mutual. It is easy to understand.
Yooyoung reasoning of not helping Eunkyul because his betray do not contribute so significant. Feels .erm, weak? It feels like there is deeper reason than this.
That is my context, what I want to express in my previous statement/comment. The real reason I wrote what I feel. Anyway, I just wrote Yooyoung giving away Yoonsun. That is all. I did give benefit of the doubt. I didnt noe she did it on purpose or not.
You specifically stated that you used to do the same thing as Yooyoung (faking the surprise), that is blaming her for something which could very well be explained by being a mistake. That is what Hanlon's razor is about, 'Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.' Seeing as you can't be sure, I don't believe you should be condemning her as fast as you lot are. Besides that, you can't say that Eunkyul hasn't done the same to Jaekyung. Nor was Eunkyul very eloquent and smart about his explanation to 'out' Jiwon. Which in turn put off alot of his support, Hongchul betraying him and Yooyoung not helping him.
When I saw the scene for the first time, I had the impression that she made a mistake and the lawyer had a good read in sniffing out what was wrong. But the following scenes showed her secretely telling Jinwo who was who was the betrayer, so I am really not sure. I think it is more likely that she intentionally "tipped" the lawyer, but impossible to say for sure.
Same goes for you. Why assume she had the intention all along to betray Eunkyul? The secret was already out after Yooyoung's mistake, so there's little reward in trying to keep a secret to people who already 'know' it's not so. Don't forget that Eunkyul wasn't very nice in his explanation for outing Jiwon. After which the acknowledgments of Eunkyul being the spy came out.
------
Deathmatches would be better if they're individual tests I guess. However, that also wouldn't be very fair for those 'geniuses' who rely on their charisma and feeling (which in my opinion is also a form of genius).
That why I said it. I didnt condem her. You suspect I am condeming her. So I ask for benefit of the doubt. U didnt noe my intention. Even after I write it again
Maybe I made this clear 1 more time.
Yellow express his thoughts, he wants the team to support the magician because the team accepted his help. They should (not forget the debt and repay back). （知恩图报）
However, Yooyoung said she felt there isn't a need to, reason Magician didnt help much. In the end （she helped Jiwon instead) （恩将仇报）
I felt that the reason she give is weak, maybe there is other reasons. So I give my suspicion of her motive. So people could discuss in this discussion thread.
My original post is never about did yooyoung purposely give away Yoonsun the magician or she did it by accident. This is minor detail, there is nothing to discuss. Whether she did it purposely or not.
But then comes the hanor razor. So I reply, hanor razor pls, no hardfeelings. Give me benefit of the doubt. And u then come ur reply. So can I ask for Hanor Razor again?
By the way, are we in this endless argument, because we are both righteous person? Or trying to "hanlon razor" something out of it?
Maybe condemning is too strong of a word. What I'm trying to point out is; why is there a need to think malicious about her possible intentions while it is also very much explainable by stupidity (also too strong a word). There's little need to point out that it might possibly be malicious. It doesn't help but make things negative for little reason.
Her reasoning is weak, I do agree on that. Would've been nice to hear her exact thoughts on why his contribution wasn't so important.
Oh well, let's just assume we're looking from different viewpoints with the same moral compass.
Never got so upset before watching an episode. Betrayals and stuff are fair game in the main game. You have ways and time for interaction, to prevent it, or come up with a counter-plan. If anything, the game design actually favours the one who sacrifice himself and risk his own life in the deathmatch. By right in episode 2 and 4, the one who has the balls to help others win would gain the majority support from the winning team itself.
Betrayal in deathmatch is another story. It's a true betrayal where the deathmatch participants could not do anything. I'm not even a fan of the magician. But the way they used him as a tool this game, then abandoning him once they got their own immunity was just disgusting. They were just hypocrites who think they have not done anything wrong because they were 'passive' in the deathmatch. If only the justification to eliminate him was because he's a strong participant, that i could understand.
I will be rooting for jinho, the congressman, and maybe boxer if he starts showing brilliance in future games. They know how politics work, especially the congressman. It just happens that he won every game lol, but even if he was in the losing team, i doubt anyone would choose him. He's pretending to be weak and only wins because of luck, so anyone could choose to eliminate him easily later on. And he doesn't make any alliance nor enemies, so nobody will feel threatened to eliminate him so early yet. The way he looks at the participants, i get shivers down my spine. It seems like he is constantly reading others' mind.
If you're talking about using others as a tool, please look back at episode 2 when the magician blatantly encourages everyone to use jaekyung as a tool in the DM to gain more garnets. Downright despicable. Downright disgusting. After watching all the episodes, I think he definitely deserved this. The same way he always treated others.Used as a tool and then tossed away.
The magician was never on Jaekyung's team to begin with. He never made a deal to help her either. Rather, it's the lawyer who promised to help Jaekyung, but ended up helping Noh for more garnets and a promise to not be selected for death match in the future. In the end, EVERYONE bid on Noh. There is a distinct difference between the magician's betrayal and the general betrayal that made Yellow, who has experienced every minute of the Genius in both seasons, to be the unhappiest he has ever been on the show.
I feel like the broadcaster/TV personality alliance is similar to the music industry alliance last season... except that the music industry alliance has players that are actually competitive. So naturally, there are two big groups competing with each other in the last season, and the alliances are more stable than this season, which has boiled down to Yellow vs the challenger of the week. As much as I like yellow to dominate, there really needs to be another player (or group of players) who can fight with him on even grounds to make the show more interesting. While this season may be more competitive due to how tryhard everyone is (Gura would rather go death match than play rock paper scissors to look bad versus Boxer who got down on his knees and begged, Poong accepted his fate, while the Lawyer strongarmed herself into the winning alliance), it has become stale in the lack of diversity of approach on the game. We just get a betrayal and then a supergroup at the end because everyone wants to survive, and no one is being held accountable for the mistake in the main game.
If only the dude from ep 1 was around. He felt like the greatest threat to Yellow. He felt someone who wouldn't just go with the natural flow of things, and wanted to win.
Never got so upset before watching an episode. Betrayals and stuff are fair game in the main game. You have ways and time for interaction, to prevent it, or come up with a counter-plan. If anything, the game design actually favours the one who sacrifice himself and risk his own life in the deathmatch. By right in episode 2 and 4, the one who has the balls to help others win would gain the majority support from the winning team itself.
Betrayal in deathmatch is another story. It's a true betrayal where the deathmatch participants could not do anything. I'm not even a fan of the magician. But the way they used him as a tool this game, then abandoning him once they got their own immunity was just disgusting. They were just hypocrites who think they have not done anything wrong because they were 'passive' in the deathmatch. If only the justification to eliminate him was because he's a strong participant, that i could understand.
I will be rooting for jinho, the congressman, and maybe boxer if he starts showing brilliance in future games. They know how politics work, especially the congressman. It just happens that he won every game lol, but even if he was in the losing team, i doubt anyone would choose him. He's pretending to be weak and only wins because of luck, so anyone could choose to eliminate him easily later on. And he doesn't make any alliance nor enemies, so nobody will feel threatened to eliminate him so early yet. The way he looks at the participants, i get shivers down my spine. It seems like he is constantly reading others' mind.
If you're talking about using others as a tool, please look back at episode 2 when the magician blatantly encourages everyone to use jaekyung as a tool in the DM to gain more garnets. Downright despicable. Downright disgusting. After watching all the episodes, I think he definitely deserved this. The same way he always treated others.Used as a tool and then tossed away.
The magician was never on Jaekyung's team to begin with. He never made a deal to help her either. Rather, it's the lawyer who promised to help Jaekyung, but ended up helping Noh for more garnets and a promise to not be selected for death match in the future. In the end, EVERYONE bid on Noh. There is a distinct difference between the magician's betrayal and the general betrayal that made Yellow, who has experienced every minute of the Genius in both seasons, to be the unhappiest he has ever been on the show.
I feel like the broadcaster/TV personality alliance is similar to the music industry alliance last season... except that the music industry alliance has players that are actually competitive. So naturally, there are two big groups competing with each other in the last season, and the alliances are more stable than this season, which has boiled down to Yellow vs the challenger of the week. As much as I like yellow to dominate, there really needs to be another player (or group of players) who can fight with him on even grounds to make the show more interesting. While this season may be more competitive due to how tryhard everyone is (Gura would rather go death match than play rock paper scissors to look bad versus Boxer who got down on his knees and begged, Poong accepted his fate, while the Lawyer strongarmed herself into the winning alliance), it has become stale in the lack of diversity of approach on the game. We just get a betrayal and then a supergroup at the end because everyone wants to survive, and no one is being held accountable for the mistake in the main game.
I believe the problem is largely because immunity is given out too easily. If there were only 2 immunities like in season 1 (winner + someone the winner choses), you can bet that there would be more diverse outcomes.
On January 02 2014 09:00 Clefairy wrote: Interesting BTS
So he IS already expecting himself to go to the death match and face Jiwon. He probably was under the impression that he'd be able to easily finish him.. but still don't want the secret out for in case he survives, he would not have enemies. What happened though was that this dude got too obsessed about outing Jiwon that he forgot that he's not in the winning team and still needed to compromise and that he still needed their help. That team may owe him but the game isn't finish yet. He made himself look bad to the other team and he even told Hongchul he also wants him out. Forget Jiwon and Hongchul being in an alliance, this alone is strong and justifiable enough for Hongchul to betray Eunkyul in the death match.
Someone commented here about the isubs forum and so I checked it out. And I've read there that Hweejong didn't really understand the game as he seemed to think. And with that I agree. Indeed, the food chain game is a game that you should not form alliances until the game has started and that you already know which animal you belong to.
Hweejong had alliances with common predators that of course needed preys. He's been trying to talk to the rat which was not in his original alliance before. The people who actually understood the game were, Jinho who associated himself with the preys like the rat and with that he was able to defeat the lion. Sangmin too.. he revealed himself to the hyena so that the hyena could lessen the lion's prey before he got killed. Also Jiwon. He wasn't in any alliances in this game. In the practice round, he only came to Hongchul cos his animal, the crocodile bird, needs the actual crocodile to survive.. so of course he had to help him.
In the actual game, he actually just got a rabbit. He's been helping the lion out so he won't be considered as a prey, long enough till he's strong and be invincible with the mallard. By the end, he ended up being with the crocodile who had no choice but to feed on him. But still, he secured himself he won't go to the death match, luckily for him, the mallard got eaten and he's become invincible by himself.
On January 02 2014 03:42 Shival wrote: Deathmatches would be better if they're individual tests I guess. However, that also wouldn't be very fair for those 'geniuses' who rely on their charisma and feeling (which in my opinion is also a form of genius).
I agree on this. It's not all about how you pass through the games, but how you socialize with the people in the game. The Genius isn't just about games. But betrayals and alliances. One's not supposed to make himself/herself an actual enemy to the people especially since it's still very early in the game. And to think of it, Jiwon only had Hongchul in his alliance at the start since they go way back.. but that's it. How he was able to turn majority of the competitors to his side is great in itself. He was being friendly with everyone while not being in the limelight. He doesn't actually stay in only one alliance but associates himself with everyone.
Keke, after watching the long message, I have more ??? above my head. He is so random kkkk.
In Episode 4, every1 wan to win to avoid deathmatch. But he does not intend to win, wan to eliminate a player, and dont mind deathmatch.
Or does he do it for a deathmatch with Jiwon?
In 1 episode he did such a big move, and got eliminated. I dont understand, no contestant talk about HongChul, Jiwon & Sangmin alliance. What does he see, that they are a big threat and he has to do something about it.
Did he see something other contestant did not see? Or he is just being completely random. His logic is so different.
Haha, maybe he got affected by Welcome Welcome Kong Rapping Hong Hong. *shake hand* Yellow, the popular kid in school. Hahahaha that part is so funny I keep watching it. <3 Sangmin. <3 Yellow. I dont want them to get eliminate.
Just finished watching the first 4 episodes, and I have to say, season 2 is not nearly as good as season 1. The players betray each other so easily. Alliances play a much more important role than season 1, which open for even more betrayals and almost no friendship at all. The death match game in ep 2 and 4 is downright terrible imo, even worse than season 1's Winning Streak game. Also since most of the players are so try hard, there aren't many interesting personalities and storylines like in season 1 (Sunggyu's pokerface, Changyeop - Jungmoon romance, Kyungran crying when Minsoo's out, etc)
Overall this season has been disappointing for me so far. Hope future episodes will be better. And Boxer, Yellow and Sangmin better stay for as long as possible
Fuck Yellow for making subbing so difficult at times. Thank the producers for doing the work of subtitling a lot of wtf he's saying.
that's hilarious. is his pronunciation usually terrible?
Yeah. He talks like someone who can't talk as fast as he thinks and he already talks fast with creative pronunciations. It's like he has too much uncontrollable power in his tongue that he can't stop from shooting off into random directions like Gohan from DBZ. It used to be much worse when he was a progamer and couldn't be bothered to finish saying words before moving onto the next one.
EPT
