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On December 11 2013 18:14 hariooo wrote:
The one strange thing was after each round you would go to a new room each time. I'm surprised no one exploited it by checking where people went before entering a room themselves. Seems like an edit would have shown that if it did happen.
From what I remember, there was a screen inside each room that told you what room everyone was in. So, once you were inside the room, you could check the screen and see where everyone else was.
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On December 11 2013 18:40 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 18:14 hariooo wrote:
Apparently everyone on this thread is a master at these games. Why bother watching it if after every episode it's just going to be a dozen "lol this person sure was stupid I'd never lose like that" posts? Please don't turn this into a standard shitty LR thread.
FWIW I think the wording of the immunity rule (at least the translation) didn't make it explicitly clear that all surviving members of the weak-animal alliance could band together and survive, even if one or most of them had already died. It's not particularly intuitive that the last animal survives by itself. Kudos to anyone who legitimately caught that pre-reveal. I know that rule caught me by surprise during the episode, even if it wasn't misrepresented. I think Mr. 173 IQ understandable didn't account for that rule, because from the edits he clearly had a plan and knew where most people were going each round.
The one strange thing was after each round you would go to a new room each time. I'm surprised no one exploited it by checking where people went before entering a room themselves. Seems like an edit would have shown that if it did happen.
The Death Match was interesting too. It was a bit luck based this time but compared to all of the Death Matches previously, it's the one most susceptible to an alliance betrayal during the game (giving someone a Zero or wrong color when you're the last trader). Otherwise it's just a function of how many people are in your alliance make it likely that you will get the right cards.
I think I read that the producers got some consulting regarding the games and setup and things definitely feel a lot more polished and tight this time around, except for the movement rule in the first game.
Anyway, this episode is as compelling as anything in Season 1 so far, so I'm looking forward to more subs. Criticizing a mistake doesn't immediately make you feel like a master at this game. It's perfectly fine to criticize, that's one of the main points of the show that you can talk about, the genius ideas, and the not so much. One might've made the same mistake if he were in that person's shoes, that doesn't mean he cannot see it is a mistake and criticize it from a viewer's standpoint. + Show Spoiler +Despite the fact that 'Mr. 173 IQ' thought he knew where most people were going, he got lucky when Boxer entered, as he might've starved right there. He felt sure of his win because he knew who the mouse was, and expected/trusted her to enter wherever he was at all times, so he couldn't really starve on the chance that no one else entered the room. That's about his entire strategy. Which as we could see, was definately not failsafe, and thus no reason to be cocky. Glad he's out.
The whole point is that viewers have perfect hindsight. No need to try to show off.
I'm pretty sure Boxer was returning to his natural habitat and 173 just got the timing right. That wasn't difficult at all.
He wasn't completely dependent on the mouse. If you assume that all 4 scrub-animals have to stay alive to have immunity, which I'm sure he did, you will see that he never has to go to an empty room or a room with only the snake.
I'm not glad he's out at all. Cocky, arrogant characters make for great television (see Kim Gura Season 1) and you can see he was quite smart even without knowing his IQ. His bigger mistake than not reading the rules properly is going after the lawyer in the Death Match instead of someone less likely to get full assistance from the other alliance.
On December 11 2013 18:44 Jacmert wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 18:14 hariooo wrote:
The one strange thing was after each round you would go to a new room each time. I'm surprised no one exploited it by checking where people went before entering a room themselves. Seems like an edit would have shown that if it did happen.
From what I remember, there was a screen inside each room that told you what room everyone was in. So, once you were inside the room, you could check the screen and see where everyone else was.
I'm suggesting that they could leave their room after the round ends as quickly as possible and just watch the 4 entrances before making their decision, which it looked like was possible based on the cuts.
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On December 11 2013 18:14 hariooo wrote:
The one strange thing was after each round you would go to a new room each time. I'm surprised no one exploited it by checking where people went before entering a room themselves. Seems like an edit would have shown that if it did happen.
I am not certain now, but I think I saw a brief scene where a player had to hand a paper with the room they were going to go to marked on it to one of the dealers between rounds before they moved, which might have prevented that?
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On December 11 2013 19:27 Patchouli wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 18:14 hariooo wrote:
The one strange thing was after each round you would go to a new room each time. I'm surprised no one exploited it by checking where people went before entering a room themselves. Seems like an edit would have shown that if it did happen.
I am not certain now, but I think I saw a brief scene where a player had to hand a paper with the room they were going to go to marked on it to one of the dealers between rounds before they moved, which might have prevented that?
Yeah that would make sense for fairness.
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On December 11 2013 19:02 hariooo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 18:40 Shival wrote:On December 11 2013 18:14 hariooo wrote:
Apparently everyone on this thread is a master at these games. Why bother watching it if after every episode it's just going to be a dozen "lol this person sure was stupid I'd never lose like that" posts? Please don't turn this into a standard shitty LR thread.
FWIW I think the wording of the immunity rule (at least the translation) didn't make it explicitly clear that all surviving members of the weak-animal alliance could band together and survive, even if one or most of them had already died. It's not particularly intuitive that the last animal survives by itself. Kudos to anyone who legitimately caught that pre-reveal. I know that rule caught me by surprise during the episode, even if it wasn't misrepresented. I think Mr. 173 IQ understandable didn't account for that rule, because from the edits he clearly had a plan and knew where most people were going each round.
The one strange thing was after each round you would go to a new room each time. I'm surprised no one exploited it by checking where people went before entering a room themselves. Seems like an edit would have shown that if it did happen.
The Death Match was interesting too. It was a bit luck based this time but compared to all of the Death Matches previously, it's the one most susceptible to an alliance betrayal during the game (giving someone a Zero or wrong color when you're the last trader). Otherwise it's just a function of how many people are in your alliance make it likely that you will get the right cards.
I think I read that the producers got some consulting regarding the games and setup and things definitely feel a lot more polished and tight this time around, except for the movement rule in the first game.
Anyway, this episode is as compelling as anything in Season 1 so far, so I'm looking forward to more subs. Criticizing a mistake doesn't immediately make you feel like a master at this game. It's perfectly fine to criticize, that's one of the main points of the show that you can talk about, the genius ideas, and the not so much. One might've made the same mistake if he were in that person's shoes, that doesn't mean he cannot see it is a mistake and criticize it from a viewer's standpoint. + Show Spoiler +Despite the fact that 'Mr. 173 IQ' thought he knew where most people were going, he got lucky when Boxer entered, as he might've starved right there. He felt sure of his win because he knew who the mouse was, and expected/trusted her to enter wherever he was at all times, so he couldn't really starve on the chance that no one else entered the room. That's about his entire strategy. Which as we could see, was definately not failsafe, and thus no reason to be cocky. Glad he's out. The whole point is that viewers have perfect hindsight. No need to try to show off. I'm pretty sure Boxer was returning to his natural habitat and 173 just got the timing right. That wasn't difficult at all. He wasn't completely dependent on the mouse. If you assume that all 4 scrub-animals have to stay alive to have immunity, which I'm sure he did, you will see that he never has to go to an empty room or a room with only the snake. I'm not glad he's out at all. Cocky, arrogant characters make for great television (see Kim Gura Season 1) and you can see he was quite smart even without knowing his IQ. His bigger mistake than not reading the rules properly is going after the lawyer in the Death Match instead of someone less likely to get full assistance from the other alliance. Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 18:44 Jacmert wrote:On December 11 2013 18:14 hariooo wrote:
The one strange thing was after each round you would go to a new room each time. I'm surprised no one exploited it by checking where people went before entering a room themselves. Seems like an edit would have shown that if it did happen.
From what I remember, there was a screen inside each room that told you what room everyone was in. So, once you were inside the room, you could check the screen and see where everyone else was. I'm suggesting that they could leave their room after the round ends as quickly as possible and just watch the 4 entrances before making their decision, which it looked like was possible based on the cuts.
Does that matter? Just because we have perfect hindsight doesn't mean we cannot discuss it. Nor has it anything to do with showing off, how do you even come to that conclusion?
+ Show Spoiler +Yes, Boxer was returning to his natural habitat. What if Boxer was killed in the previous round though (as noted by Yellow at 47:05, which was my point? No one had to return to the field, while he had to, as it's the lion's natural habitat. That's what I'm talking about, he seemed so sure of his win, while there's variables such as the other predators and the snake to account with. 'If' he thought that all 4 of the scrubs had to stay alive for their immunity, and to be honest, why would he? I can understand the mistake of not realizing one scrub alive means he's completely immune all the time, but to go as far as to think all 4 have to be alive for immunity to be possible is ridiculous. That in itself is nearly impossible to happen from the very first round onward, as you can be very sure atleast one will get killed. Besides, it says (albeit translated) 'the survivors of cannot die when they're together' (19:23). That seems rather plain and obvious to me. So yes, he was entirely dependent on the mouse. Whether he knew he was or not, I don't care, he simply was. It's even explained from 51:20 onwards, what one of his mistakes is, and why he cannot be sure he's always in a room with someone he can eat. Kim Gura was cocky, but in a humorous way, he never really chilled the atmosphere. This time you could see Sang Min getting somewhat pissed off by being told off along with Jae Kyung, and slightly smirking when he died. Not to mention the atmosphere when he was raging at the mouse. That you point out he's picking on the mouse for his loss and subsequently taking her to the death match is indeed a mistake. Rather than taking the smart choice, he takes revenge. Though, I could look that over, as it usually makes for good tv! 
You're right about them leaving and entering rooms though, that seems kind of abusive. Though also an interesting development if used by a few and not all. I wonder if they had to state in secret were they would go next, before anyone could enter a room.
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Aw man, links are down again. Is it possible for someone to reupload them again?
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Do you mind downloading via .torrent?
Edit: PM'ed you.
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On December 11 2013 20:55 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 19:02 hariooo wrote:On December 11 2013 18:40 Shival wrote:On December 11 2013 18:14 hariooo wrote:
Apparently everyone on this thread is a master at these games. Why bother watching it if after every episode it's just going to be a dozen "lol this person sure was stupid I'd never lose like that" posts? Please don't turn this into a standard shitty LR thread.
FWIW I think the wording of the immunity rule (at least the translation) didn't make it explicitly clear that all surviving members of the weak-animal alliance could band together and survive, even if one or most of them had already died. It's not particularly intuitive that the last animal survives by itself. Kudos to anyone who legitimately caught that pre-reveal. I know that rule caught me by surprise during the episode, even if it wasn't misrepresented. I think Mr. 173 IQ understandable didn't account for that rule, because from the edits he clearly had a plan and knew where most people were going each round.
The one strange thing was after each round you would go to a new room each time. I'm surprised no one exploited it by checking where people went before entering a room themselves. Seems like an edit would have shown that if it did happen.
The Death Match was interesting too. It was a bit luck based this time but compared to all of the Death Matches previously, it's the one most susceptible to an alliance betrayal during the game (giving someone a Zero or wrong color when you're the last trader). Otherwise it's just a function of how many people are in your alliance make it likely that you will get the right cards.
I think I read that the producers got some consulting regarding the games and setup and things definitely feel a lot more polished and tight this time around, except for the movement rule in the first game.
Anyway, this episode is as compelling as anything in Season 1 so far, so I'm looking forward to more subs. Criticizing a mistake doesn't immediately make you feel like a master at this game. It's perfectly fine to criticize, that's one of the main points of the show that you can talk about, the genius ideas, and the not so much. One might've made the same mistake if he were in that person's shoes, that doesn't mean he cannot see it is a mistake and criticize it from a viewer's standpoint. + Show Spoiler +Despite the fact that 'Mr. 173 IQ' thought he knew where most people were going, he got lucky when Boxer entered, as he might've starved right there. He felt sure of his win because he knew who the mouse was, and expected/trusted her to enter wherever he was at all times, so he couldn't really starve on the chance that no one else entered the room. That's about his entire strategy. Which as we could see, was definately not failsafe, and thus no reason to be cocky. Glad he's out. The whole point is that viewers have perfect hindsight. No need to try to show off. I'm pretty sure Boxer was returning to his natural habitat and 173 just got the timing right. That wasn't difficult at all. He wasn't completely dependent on the mouse. If you assume that all 4 scrub-animals have to stay alive to have immunity, which I'm sure he did, you will see that he never has to go to an empty room or a room with only the snake. I'm not glad he's out at all. Cocky, arrogant characters make for great television (see Kim Gura Season 1) and you can see he was quite smart even without knowing his IQ. His bigger mistake than not reading the rules properly is going after the lawyer in the Death Match instead of someone less likely to get full assistance from the other alliance. On December 11 2013 18:44 Jacmert wrote:On December 11 2013 18:14 hariooo wrote:
The one strange thing was after each round you would go to a new room each time. I'm surprised no one exploited it by checking where people went before entering a room themselves. Seems like an edit would have shown that if it did happen.
From what I remember, there was a screen inside each room that told you what room everyone was in. So, once you were inside the room, you could check the screen and see where everyone else was. I'm suggesting that they could leave their room after the round ends as quickly as possible and just watch the 4 entrances before making their decision, which it looked like was possible based on the cuts. Does that matter? Just because we have perfect hindsight doesn't mean we cannot discuss it. Nor has it anything to do with showing off, how do you even come to that conclusion? + Show Spoiler +Yes, Boxer was returning to his natural habitat. What if Boxer was killed in the previous round though (as noted by Yellow at 47:05, which was my point? No one had to return to the field, while he had to, as it's the lion's natural habitat. That's what I'm talking about, he seemed so sure of his win, while there's variables such as the other predators and the snake to account with. 'If' he thought that all 4 of the scrubs had to stay alive for their immunity, and to be honest, why would he? I can understand the mistake of not realizing one scrub alive means he's completely immune all the time, but to go as far as to think all 4 have to be alive for immunity to be possible is ridiculous. That in itself is nearly impossible to happen from the very first round onward, as you can be very sure atleast one will get killed. Besides, it says (albeit translated) 'the survivors of cannot die when they're together' (19:23). That seems rather plain and obvious to me. So yes, he was entirely dependent on the mouse. Whether he knew he was or not, I don't care, he simply was. It's even explained from 51:20 onwards, what one of his mistakes is, and why he cannot be sure he's always in a room with someone he can eat. Kim Gura was cocky, but in a humorous way, he never really chilled the atmosphere. This time you could see Sang Min getting somewhat pissed off by being told off along with Jae Kyung, and slightly smirking when he died. Not to mention the atmosphere when he was raging at the mouse. That you point out he's picking on the mouse for his loss and subsequently taking her to the death match is indeed a mistake. Rather than taking the smart choice, he takes revenge. Though, I could look that over, as it usually makes for good tv! You're right about them leaving and entering rooms though, that seems kind of abusive. Though also an interesting development if used by a few and not all. I wonder if they had to state in secret were they would go next, before anyone could enter a room.
+ Show Spoiler +Well, he also told the mouse to go the field in round 2 and while they edited out his reaction, he was probably pretty surprised when she didn't show. It was dumb of Boxer to go there instead of going somewhere random and killing himself off, but he was trying to survive since that was his win condition, as opposed to Yellow's which was simply "make the lion lose".
The lion could eat anyone except the snake or the immunity alliance, and all the prey animals had to go to the forest or field sooner or later. I think everyone underestimated the power of the immunity alliance and the fact that it got much stronger as it lost members. If that didn't apply, at least one of the predators would have made it. But because everyone missed it, the lion and the alligator starved.
I agree with supernovamaniac's sentiment, there weren't any really brilliant moments except for the snake putting a hit on the chameleon and YellOw (hyena) executing. But it wasn't bad either, there were a lot of smaller funny moments.
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On December 11 2013 18:14 hariooo wrote:
Apparently everyone on this thread is a master at these games. Why bother watching it if after every episode it's just going to be a dozen "lol this person sure was stupid I'd never lose like that" posts? Please don't turn this into a standard shitty LR thread.
FWIW I think the wording of the immunity rule (at least the translation) didn't make it explicitly clear that all surviving members of the weak-animal alliance could band together and survive, even if one or most of them had already died. It's not particularly intuitive that the last animal survives by itself. Kudos to anyone who legitimately caught that pre-reveal. I know that rule caught me by surprise during the episode, even if it wasn't misrepresented. I think Mr. 173 IQ understandable didn't account for that rule, because from the edits he clearly had a plan and knew where most people were going each round.
The one strange thing was after each round you would go to a new room each time. I'm surprised no one exploited it by checking where people went before entering a room themselves. Seems like an edit would have shown that if it did happen.
The Death Match was interesting too. It was a bit luck based this time but compared to all of the Death Matches previously, it's the one most susceptible to an alliance betrayal during the game (giving someone a Zero or wrong color when you're the last trader). Otherwise it's just a function of how many people are in your alliance make it likely that you will get the right cards.
I think I read that the producers got some consulting regarding the games and setup and things definitely feel a lot more polished and tight this time around, except for the movement rule in the first game.
Anyway, this episode is as compelling as anything in Season 1 so far, so I'm looking forward to more subs.
Reviewing the things they missed and going through the intricacies of the game is different from claiming to be a master or being an armchair general. I guess people are being a bit too hard on the lion for being overconfident when clearly he didn't account for a few variables. Although that's part of the fun of the Genius, the chameleon also thought he was home free and was the first to be killed, clearly not factoring in betrayal and zergling micro as possibilities.
Players had to write down where they were going and some of them did discuss where to go next (i.e. bird and rabbit planned to meet in between moves, which starved the lion). It's not clear if the moves had to happen pretty quickly or if they were given some kind of rest where players could discuss what to do but simply didn't.
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On December 11 2013 21:21 coverpunch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 20:55 Shival wrote:On December 11 2013 19:02 hariooo wrote:On December 11 2013 18:40 Shival wrote:On December 11 2013 18:14 hariooo wrote:
Apparently everyone on this thread is a master at these games. Why bother watching it if after every episode it's just going to be a dozen "lol this person sure was stupid I'd never lose like that" posts? Please don't turn this into a standard shitty LR thread.
FWIW I think the wording of the immunity rule (at least the translation) didn't make it explicitly clear that all surviving members of the weak-animal alliance could band together and survive, even if one or most of them had already died. It's not particularly intuitive that the last animal survives by itself. Kudos to anyone who legitimately caught that pre-reveal. I know that rule caught me by surprise during the episode, even if it wasn't misrepresented. I think Mr. 173 IQ understandable didn't account for that rule, because from the edits he clearly had a plan and knew where most people were going each round.
The one strange thing was after each round you would go to a new room each time. I'm surprised no one exploited it by checking where people went before entering a room themselves. Seems like an edit would have shown that if it did happen.
The Death Match was interesting too. It was a bit luck based this time but compared to all of the Death Matches previously, it's the one most susceptible to an alliance betrayal during the game (giving someone a Zero or wrong color when you're the last trader). Otherwise it's just a function of how many people are in your alliance make it likely that you will get the right cards.
I think I read that the producers got some consulting regarding the games and setup and things definitely feel a lot more polished and tight this time around, except for the movement rule in the first game.
Anyway, this episode is as compelling as anything in Season 1 so far, so I'm looking forward to more subs. Criticizing a mistake doesn't immediately make you feel like a master at this game. It's perfectly fine to criticize, that's one of the main points of the show that you can talk about, the genius ideas, and the not so much. One might've made the same mistake if he were in that person's shoes, that doesn't mean he cannot see it is a mistake and criticize it from a viewer's standpoint. + Show Spoiler +Despite the fact that 'Mr. 173 IQ' thought he knew where most people were going, he got lucky when Boxer entered, as he might've starved right there. He felt sure of his win because he knew who the mouse was, and expected/trusted her to enter wherever he was at all times, so he couldn't really starve on the chance that no one else entered the room. That's about his entire strategy. Which as we could see, was definately not failsafe, and thus no reason to be cocky. Glad he's out. The whole point is that viewers have perfect hindsight. No need to try to show off. I'm pretty sure Boxer was returning to his natural habitat and 173 just got the timing right. That wasn't difficult at all. He wasn't completely dependent on the mouse. If you assume that all 4 scrub-animals have to stay alive to have immunity, which I'm sure he did, you will see that he never has to go to an empty room or a room with only the snake. I'm not glad he's out at all. Cocky, arrogant characters make for great television (see Kim Gura Season 1) and you can see he was quite smart even without knowing his IQ. His bigger mistake than not reading the rules properly is going after the lawyer in the Death Match instead of someone less likely to get full assistance from the other alliance. On December 11 2013 18:44 Jacmert wrote:On December 11 2013 18:14 hariooo wrote:
The one strange thing was after each round you would go to a new room each time. I'm surprised no one exploited it by checking where people went before entering a room themselves. Seems like an edit would have shown that if it did happen.
From what I remember, there was a screen inside each room that told you what room everyone was in. So, once you were inside the room, you could check the screen and see where everyone else was. I'm suggesting that they could leave their room after the round ends as quickly as possible and just watch the 4 entrances before making their decision, which it looked like was possible based on the cuts. Does that matter? Just because we have perfect hindsight doesn't mean we cannot discuss it. Nor has it anything to do with showing off, how do you even come to that conclusion? + Show Spoiler +Yes, Boxer was returning to his natural habitat. What if Boxer was killed in the previous round though (as noted by Yellow at 47:05, which was my point? No one had to return to the field, while he had to, as it's the lion's natural habitat. That's what I'm talking about, he seemed so sure of his win, while there's variables such as the other predators and the snake to account with. 'If' he thought that all 4 of the scrubs had to stay alive for their immunity, and to be honest, why would he? I can understand the mistake of not realizing one scrub alive means he's completely immune all the time, but to go as far as to think all 4 have to be alive for immunity to be possible is ridiculous. That in itself is nearly impossible to happen from the very first round onward, as you can be very sure atleast one will get killed. Besides, it says (albeit translated) 'the survivors of cannot die when they're together' (19:23). That seems rather plain and obvious to me. So yes, he was entirely dependent on the mouse. Whether he knew he was or not, I don't care, he simply was. It's even explained from 51:20 onwards, what one of his mistakes is, and why he cannot be sure he's always in a room with someone he can eat. Kim Gura was cocky, but in a humorous way, he never really chilled the atmosphere. This time you could see Sang Min getting somewhat pissed off by being told off along with Jae Kyung, and slightly smirking when he died. Not to mention the atmosphere when he was raging at the mouse. That you point out he's picking on the mouse for his loss and subsequently taking her to the death match is indeed a mistake. Rather than taking the smart choice, he takes revenge. Though, I could look that over, as it usually makes for good tv! You're right about them leaving and entering rooms though, that seems kind of abusive. Though also an interesting development if used by a few and not all. I wonder if they had to state in secret were they would go next, before anyone could enter a room. + Show Spoiler +Well, he also told the mouse to go the field in round 2 and while they edited out his reaction, he was probably pretty surprised when she didn't show. It was dumb of Boxer to go there instead of going somewhere random and killing himself off, but he was trying to survive since that was his win condition, as opposed to Yellow's which was simply "make the lion lose".
The lion could eat anyone except the snake or the immunity alliance, and all the prey animals had to go to the forest or field sooner or later. I think everyone underestimated the power of the immunity alliance and the fact that it got much stronger as it lost members. If that didn't apply, at least one of the predators would have made it. But because everyone missed it, the lion and the alligator starved.
I agree with supernovamaniac's sentiment, there weren't any really brilliant moments except for the snake putting a hit on the chameleon and YellOw (hyena) executing. But it wasn't bad either, there were a lot of smaller funny moments.
+ Show Spoiler +That's true, but if anything is true for this program than it is to never unconditionaly trust each other. In the end he proclaimed, even after his loss, that the result (his winning) was already decided (in his favor) if the mouse followed him. The problem with that statement is that it precludes the mouse dying to another predator, for instance in round 1.
Boxer couldn't have survived, and he could've known if he had seen the screen showing where everyone was in round one. So it's either dying while helping the lion (not in his alliance), or both dying if the mouse doesn't come in round 2, or taking out the mouse in round 2 because the lion is forced to eat her. Resulting in him once again starving in round 3 if things go the same as in the show from then onwards.
I'd like to stress that I probably would've made the same mistakes if I were in their position though. Lest anyone think I'm trying to show off.
There really weren't any brilliant moments indeed. Hopefully we'll see some in the next episodes! Like you said, the episode was funny by itself though, lots of funny moments.
By the way, don't you think the lawyer has atleast one huge ally in Jinho from here on out? She practically did a self sacrifice to make Jinho win.
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On December 11 2013 21:53 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 21:21 coverpunch wrote:On December 11 2013 20:55 Shival wrote:On December 11 2013 19:02 hariooo wrote:On December 11 2013 18:40 Shival wrote:On December 11 2013 18:14 hariooo wrote:
Apparently everyone on this thread is a master at these games. Why bother watching it if after every episode it's just going to be a dozen "lol this person sure was stupid I'd never lose like that" posts? Please don't turn this into a standard shitty LR thread.
FWIW I think the wording of the immunity rule (at least the translation) didn't make it explicitly clear that all surviving members of the weak-animal alliance could band together and survive, even if one or most of them had already died. It's not particularly intuitive that the last animal survives by itself. Kudos to anyone who legitimately caught that pre-reveal. I know that rule caught me by surprise during the episode, even if it wasn't misrepresented. I think Mr. 173 IQ understandable didn't account for that rule, because from the edits he clearly had a plan and knew where most people were going each round.
The one strange thing was after each round you would go to a new room each time. I'm surprised no one exploited it by checking where people went before entering a room themselves. Seems like an edit would have shown that if it did happen.
The Death Match was interesting too. It was a bit luck based this time but compared to all of the Death Matches previously, it's the one most susceptible to an alliance betrayal during the game (giving someone a Zero or wrong color when you're the last trader). Otherwise it's just a function of how many people are in your alliance make it likely that you will get the right cards.
I think I read that the producers got some consulting regarding the games and setup and things definitely feel a lot more polished and tight this time around, except for the movement rule in the first game.
Anyway, this episode is as compelling as anything in Season 1 so far, so I'm looking forward to more subs. Criticizing a mistake doesn't immediately make you feel like a master at this game. It's perfectly fine to criticize, that's one of the main points of the show that you can talk about, the genius ideas, and the not so much. One might've made the same mistake if he were in that person's shoes, that doesn't mean he cannot see it is a mistake and criticize it from a viewer's standpoint. + Show Spoiler +Despite the fact that 'Mr. 173 IQ' thought he knew where most people were going, he got lucky when Boxer entered, as he might've starved right there. He felt sure of his win because he knew who the mouse was, and expected/trusted her to enter wherever he was at all times, so he couldn't really starve on the chance that no one else entered the room. That's about his entire strategy. Which as we could see, was definately not failsafe, and thus no reason to be cocky. Glad he's out. The whole point is that viewers have perfect hindsight. No need to try to show off. I'm pretty sure Boxer was returning to his natural habitat and 173 just got the timing right. That wasn't difficult at all. He wasn't completely dependent on the mouse. If you assume that all 4 scrub-animals have to stay alive to have immunity, which I'm sure he did, you will see that he never has to go to an empty room or a room with only the snake. I'm not glad he's out at all. Cocky, arrogant characters make for great television (see Kim Gura Season 1) and you can see he was quite smart even without knowing his IQ. His bigger mistake than not reading the rules properly is going after the lawyer in the Death Match instead of someone less likely to get full assistance from the other alliance. On December 11 2013 18:44 Jacmert wrote:On December 11 2013 18:14 hariooo wrote:
The one strange thing was after each round you would go to a new room each time. I'm surprised no one exploited it by checking where people went before entering a room themselves. Seems like an edit would have shown that if it did happen.
From what I remember, there was a screen inside each room that told you what room everyone was in. So, once you were inside the room, you could check the screen and see where everyone else was. I'm suggesting that they could leave their room after the round ends as quickly as possible and just watch the 4 entrances before making their decision, which it looked like was possible based on the cuts. Does that matter? Just because we have perfect hindsight doesn't mean we cannot discuss it. Nor has it anything to do with showing off, how do you even come to that conclusion? + Show Spoiler +Yes, Boxer was returning to his natural habitat. What if Boxer was killed in the previous round though (as noted by Yellow at 47:05, which was my point? No one had to return to the field, while he had to, as it's the lion's natural habitat. That's what I'm talking about, he seemed so sure of his win, while there's variables such as the other predators and the snake to account with. 'If' he thought that all 4 of the scrubs had to stay alive for their immunity, and to be honest, why would he? I can understand the mistake of not realizing one scrub alive means he's completely immune all the time, but to go as far as to think all 4 have to be alive for immunity to be possible is ridiculous. That in itself is nearly impossible to happen from the very first round onward, as you can be very sure atleast one will get killed. Besides, it says (albeit translated) 'the survivors of cannot die when they're together' (19:23). That seems rather plain and obvious to me. So yes, he was entirely dependent on the mouse. Whether he knew he was or not, I don't care, he simply was. It's even explained from 51:20 onwards, what one of his mistakes is, and why he cannot be sure he's always in a room with someone he can eat. Kim Gura was cocky, but in a humorous way, he never really chilled the atmosphere. This time you could see Sang Min getting somewhat pissed off by being told off along with Jae Kyung, and slightly smirking when he died. Not to mention the atmosphere when he was raging at the mouse. That you point out he's picking on the mouse for his loss and subsequently taking her to the death match is indeed a mistake. Rather than taking the smart choice, he takes revenge. Though, I could look that over, as it usually makes for good tv! You're right about them leaving and entering rooms though, that seems kind of abusive. Though also an interesting development if used by a few and not all. I wonder if they had to state in secret were they would go next, before anyone could enter a room. + Show Spoiler +Well, he also told the mouse to go the field in round 2 and while they edited out his reaction, he was probably pretty surprised when she didn't show. It was dumb of Boxer to go there instead of going somewhere random and killing himself off, but he was trying to survive since that was his win condition, as opposed to Yellow's which was simply "make the lion lose".
The lion could eat anyone except the snake or the immunity alliance, and all the prey animals had to go to the forest or field sooner or later. I think everyone underestimated the power of the immunity alliance and the fact that it got much stronger as it lost members. If that didn't apply, at least one of the predators would have made it. But because everyone missed it, the lion and the alligator starved.
I agree with supernovamaniac's sentiment, there weren't any really brilliant moments except for the snake putting a hit on the chameleon and YellOw (hyena) executing. But it wasn't bad either, there were a lot of smaller funny moments. + Show Spoiler +That's true, but if anything is true for this program than it is to never unconditionaly trust each other. In the end he proclaimed, even after his loss, that the result (his winning) was already decided (in his favor) if the mouse followed him. The problem with that statement is that it precludes the mouse dying to another predator, for instance in round 1.
Boxer couldn't have survived, and he could've known if he had seen the screen showing where everyone was in round one. So it's either dying while helping the lion (not in his alliance), or both dying if the mouse doesn't come in round 2, or taking out the mouse in round 2 because the lion is forced to eat her. Resulting in him once again starving in round 3 if things go the same as in the show from then onwards.
I'd like to stress that I probably would've made the same mistakes if I were in their position though. Lest anyone think I'm trying to show off.
There really weren't any brilliant moments indeed. Hopefully we'll see some in the next episodes! Like you said, the episode was funny by itself though, lots of funny moments.
By the way, don't you think the lawyer has atleast one huge ally in Jinho from here on out? She practically did a self sacrifice to make Jinho win.
+ Show Spoiler +Jinho would make a great ally. His experience alone is a great advantage and i don't think he's the type to betray someone especially if he did what the lawyer did. I'm mostly curious of the interaction between boxer and yellow. Yellow seems so salty lol
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I know they take a lot of inspiration from Liar Game, but the garnet system in Season 1 wasn't exactly great. The producers seemed to want to push for a system where there is some inventive to work together and maximize total garnet count but based on the fact that ALL losers go home with nothing, there really isn't a motive at all.
For those unfamiliar with Liar Game, it is possible to leave the game (win or lose) with some amount of money based on the way both games play out AND any deals you make with people. The point of maximizing the amount of money to be won was to ensure that the house loses and extract maximum value.
Right now there's no real reason in The Genius for any player to want to do that since only the winner will ever benefit from garnets, which is fine if that's their design, but they made a point last season to suggest that it should be part of gameplay.
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It was a worthwhile wait for season 2. I had watched the first episode twice now and there were still things that I missed but were pointed to me by others, like + Show Spoiler +who actually held the Zero card in the DM at one point of time, though it was eventually inconsequential to the ending of DM.
The win condition for the snake + Show Spoiler +is for more than 9 animals to be dead at the end, i.e. 10 animals or more. Besides itself, there can only be two other surviving animals. In this case, the snake barely scraped through for a win thanks to the survival of the eagle and rabbit at the end.
There are too many variables in this game for anyone to guarantee a win. + Show Spoiler +The lion was over-confident because of its "superiority" as the biggest predator, but neglected to analyse with fellow predators on optimising no of prey for each. The twists in this episode were thoroughly entertaining, even the "black hole/weak link" crow.
The MM - Seat Exchange - for the next episode looks interesting as well. Can't wait!
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Hey guys, sorry about the delay in getting stuff back up again. Chrome was being difficult and I still haven't managed to finish uploading because of crashing.
You can find the softsubs here in the meantime. There's also a new BTS video with Sangmin and Boxer.
On December 12 2013 01:19 femacca wrote:The win condition for the snake + Show Spoiler +is for more than 9 animals to be dead at the end, i.e. 10 animals or more. Besides itself, there can only be two other surviving animals. In this case, the snake barely scraped through for a win thanks to the survival of the eagle and rabbit at the end.
Actually, sorry about that one... I meant to say "at least" instead of "over". Bad mistake 
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On December 12 2013 01:26 Clefairy wrote:Hey guys, sorry about the delay in getting stuff back up again. Chrome was being difficult and I still haven't managed to finish uploading because of crashing. You can find the softsubs here in the meantime. There's also a new BTS video with Sangmin and Boxer.Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 01:19 femacca wrote:The win condition for the snake + Show Spoiler +is for more than 9 animals to be dead at the end, i.e. 10 animals or more. Besides itself, there can only be two other surviving animals. In this case, the snake barely scraped through for a win thanks to the survival of the eagle and rabbit at the end. Actually, sorry about that one... I meant to say "at least" instead of "over". Bad mistake
Thanks for all your work.
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On December 12 2013 01:26 Clefairy wrote:Hey guys, sorry about the delay in getting stuff back up again. Chrome was being difficult and I still haven't managed to finish uploading because of crashing. You can find the softsubs here in the meantime. There's also a new BTS video with Sangmin and Boxer.Show nested quote +On December 12 2013 01:19 femacca wrote:The win condition for the snake + Show Spoiler +is for more than 9 animals to be dead at the end, i.e. 10 animals or more. Besides itself, there can only be two other surviving animals. In this case, the snake barely scraped through for a win thanks to the survival of the eagle and rabbit at the end. Actually, sorry about that one... I meant to say "at least" instead of "over". Bad mistake
Thanks for your subbing efforts for Season 1 and now Season 2! Your English subbed versions are of very good quality - not to mention fast! - even better than the Chinese subbed versions that I had watched. Even small nuances were captured, and the rules and captions were explained clearly as well. 
Hope to see your videos appearing somewhere on a video site again soon, as it is easier to spread the word on the programme that way. And I miss those SNL Korea videos too! 
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On December 11 2013 21:53 Shival wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 21:21 coverpunch wrote:On December 11 2013 20:55 Shival wrote:On December 11 2013 19:02 hariooo wrote:On December 11 2013 18:40 Shival wrote:On December 11 2013 18:14 hariooo wrote:
Apparently everyone on this thread is a master at these games. Why bother watching it if after every episode it's just going to be a dozen "lol this person sure was stupid I'd never lose like that" posts? Please don't turn this into a standard shitty LR thread.
FWIW I think the wording of the immunity rule (at least the translation) didn't make it explicitly clear that all surviving members of the weak-animal alliance could band together and survive, even if one or most of them had already died. It's not particularly intuitive that the last animal survives by itself. Kudos to anyone who legitimately caught that pre-reveal. I know that rule caught me by surprise during the episode, even if it wasn't misrepresented. I think Mr. 173 IQ understandable didn't account for that rule, because from the edits he clearly had a plan and knew where most people were going each round.
The one strange thing was after each round you would go to a new room each time. I'm surprised no one exploited it by checking where people went before entering a room themselves. Seems like an edit would have shown that if it did happen.
The Death Match was interesting too. It was a bit luck based this time but compared to all of the Death Matches previously, it's the one most susceptible to an alliance betrayal during the game (giving someone a Zero or wrong color when you're the last trader). Otherwise it's just a function of how many people are in your alliance make it likely that you will get the right cards.
I think I read that the producers got some consulting regarding the games and setup and things definitely feel a lot more polished and tight this time around, except for the movement rule in the first game.
Anyway, this episode is as compelling as anything in Season 1 so far, so I'm looking forward to more subs. Criticizing a mistake doesn't immediately make you feel like a master at this game. It's perfectly fine to criticize, that's one of the main points of the show that you can talk about, the genius ideas, and the not so much. One might've made the same mistake if he were in that person's shoes, that doesn't mean he cannot see it is a mistake and criticize it from a viewer's standpoint. + Show Spoiler +Despite the fact that 'Mr. 173 IQ' thought he knew where most people were going, he got lucky when Boxer entered, as he might've starved right there. He felt sure of his win because he knew who the mouse was, and expected/trusted her to enter wherever he was at all times, so he couldn't really starve on the chance that no one else entered the room. That's about his entire strategy. Which as we could see, was definately not failsafe, and thus no reason to be cocky. Glad he's out. The whole point is that viewers have perfect hindsight. No need to try to show off. I'm pretty sure Boxer was returning to his natural habitat and 173 just got the timing right. That wasn't difficult at all. He wasn't completely dependent on the mouse. If you assume that all 4 scrub-animals have to stay alive to have immunity, which I'm sure he did, you will see that he never has to go to an empty room or a room with only the snake. I'm not glad he's out at all. Cocky, arrogant characters make for great television (see Kim Gura Season 1) and you can see he was quite smart even without knowing his IQ. His bigger mistake than not reading the rules properly is going after the lawyer in the Death Match instead of someone less likely to get full assistance from the other alliance. On December 11 2013 18:44 Jacmert wrote:On December 11 2013 18:14 hariooo wrote:
The one strange thing was after each round you would go to a new room each time. I'm surprised no one exploited it by checking where people went before entering a room themselves. Seems like an edit would have shown that if it did happen.
From what I remember, there was a screen inside each room that told you what room everyone was in. So, once you were inside the room, you could check the screen and see where everyone else was. I'm suggesting that they could leave their room after the round ends as quickly as possible and just watch the 4 entrances before making their decision, which it looked like was possible based on the cuts. Does that matter? Just because we have perfect hindsight doesn't mean we cannot discuss it. Nor has it anything to do with showing off, how do you even come to that conclusion? + Show Spoiler +Yes, Boxer was returning to his natural habitat. What if Boxer was killed in the previous round though (as noted by Yellow at 47:05, which was my point? No one had to return to the field, while he had to, as it's the lion's natural habitat. That's what I'm talking about, he seemed so sure of his win, while there's variables such as the other predators and the snake to account with. 'If' he thought that all 4 of the scrubs had to stay alive for their immunity, and to be honest, why would he? I can understand the mistake of not realizing one scrub alive means he's completely immune all the time, but to go as far as to think all 4 have to be alive for immunity to be possible is ridiculous. That in itself is nearly impossible to happen from the very first round onward, as you can be very sure atleast one will get killed. Besides, it says (albeit translated) 'the survivors of cannot die when they're together' (19:23). That seems rather plain and obvious to me. So yes, he was entirely dependent on the mouse. Whether he knew he was or not, I don't care, he simply was. It's even explained from 51:20 onwards, what one of his mistakes is, and why he cannot be sure he's always in a room with someone he can eat. Kim Gura was cocky, but in a humorous way, he never really chilled the atmosphere. This time you could see Sang Min getting somewhat pissed off by being told off along with Jae Kyung, and slightly smirking when he died. Not to mention the atmosphere when he was raging at the mouse. That you point out he's picking on the mouse for his loss and subsequently taking her to the death match is indeed a mistake. Rather than taking the smart choice, he takes revenge. Though, I could look that over, as it usually makes for good tv! You're right about them leaving and entering rooms though, that seems kind of abusive. Though also an interesting development if used by a few and not all. I wonder if they had to state in secret were they would go next, before anyone could enter a room. + Show Spoiler +Well, he also told the mouse to go the field in round 2 and while they edited out his reaction, he was probably pretty surprised when she didn't show. It was dumb of Boxer to go there instead of going somewhere random and killing himself off, but he was trying to survive since that was his win condition, as opposed to Yellow's which was simply "make the lion lose".
The lion could eat anyone except the snake or the immunity alliance, and all the prey animals had to go to the forest or field sooner or later. I think everyone underestimated the power of the immunity alliance and the fact that it got much stronger as it lost members. If that didn't apply, at least one of the predators would have made it. But because everyone missed it, the lion and the alligator starved.
I agree with supernovamaniac's sentiment, there weren't any really brilliant moments except for the snake putting a hit on the chameleon and YellOw (hyena) executing. But it wasn't bad either, there were a lot of smaller funny moments. + Show Spoiler +That's true, but if anything is true for this program than it is to never unconditionaly trust each other. In the end he proclaimed, even after his loss, that the result (his winning) was already decided (in his favor) if the mouse followed him. The problem with that statement is that it precludes the mouse dying to another predator, for instance in round 1.
Boxer couldn't have survived, and he could've known if he had seen the screen showing where everyone was in round one. So it's either dying while helping the lion (not in his alliance), or both dying if the mouse doesn't come in round 2, or taking out the mouse in round 2 because the lion is forced to eat her. Resulting in him once again starving in round 3 if things go the same as in the show from then onwards.
I'd like to stress that I probably would've made the same mistakes if I were in their position though. Lest anyone think I'm trying to show off.
There really weren't any brilliant moments indeed. Hopefully we'll see some in the next episodes! Like you said, the episode was funny by itself though, lots of funny moments.
By the way, don't you think the lawyer has atleast one huge ally in Jinho from here on out? She practically did a self sacrifice to make Jinho win.
+ Show Spoiler +Yeah, you're right that the lion was overconfident even after losing and there was no guarantee he would win even if he had eaten the mouse in round 3 (the field only had the snake in round 4). Which was why it was a good betrayal by the mouse to stick with her original alliance, even if it made for more boring TV. She will probably ally up with Jinho for the time being but no doubt the alliances may shift in the future. She seems like a Sangmin-type who will be comfortable working between other alliances and betraying the people she thinks will lose.
If there is an award for biggest assist, it would be the eagle helping the crow win. It got more complicated than anyone thought at the end there and the fact that she quasi-betrayed the duck by simply killing him instead of playing rock-paper-scissors to see if she might purposely starve and did it quickly not only helped her live but made the crow win too. If the alligator had killed the rabbit quicker in the other room, she wouldn't have been able to do it (duck would have gained immunity) and the crow would have lost too. It will be curious to see if that alliance fractures and kicks her out. I think she might be less able to find new partners.
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On December 11 2013 19:02 hariooo wrote:I'm not glad he's out at all. Cocky, arrogant characters make for great television (see Kim Gura Season 1) and you can see he was quite smart even without knowing his IQ. His bigger mistake than not reading the rules properly is going after the lawyer in the Death Match instead of someone less likely to get full assistance from the other alliance. Show nested quote +On December 11 2013 18:44 Jacmert wrote:On December 11 2013 18:14 hariooo wrote:
The one strange thing was after each round you would go to a new room each time. I'm surprised no one exploited it by checking where people went before entering a room themselves. Seems like an edit would have shown that if it did happen.
From what I remember, there was a screen inside each room that told you what room everyone was in. So, once you were inside the room, you could check the screen and see where everyone else was. I'm suggesting that they could leave their room after the round ends as quickly as possible and just watch the 4 entrances before making their decision, which it looked like was possible based on the cuts.
I agree with that first paragraph! Totally!
Regarding the room movement, if I understand you (and the game) correctly, that's not possible because they made them fill out "room movement tickets" at the end of each round. Basically, they marked down their next room destination while they were still inside.
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EPT
