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On October 24 2013 07:14 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2013 06:38 rasers wrote:On October 24 2013 06:10 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
Took long enough. I hope kespa manages to tear a chunk out of LG's wallet in a lawsuit. Nevertheless, I think the guys in here boycotting LG and throwing monitors out windows need to reconsider their actions. LG doesn't care, you won't hurt their bottom line enough for them to give a shit. What you will do, though, is make potential future sponsors back out on the whole esports thing. We don't offer good ROI, and if investors realize that they can suffer violent backlash from the community for pulling out, they'll stay away. The benefits we offer aren't enough to counterbalance that kind of risk.
Not that I personally balance my actions around ESPORTS and how I affect it, but for those of you that do, just something to consider. Which lawsuit? :D dafuq are they going 2 do "oh we didn'T have a contract for a year. but we kept showing them as sponsors? so please give us money now? :D dafuq? there was never a fucking contract so gl with that lawsuit. Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 18:47 egernya wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Source: http://www.thisisgame.com/esports/news/nboard/162/?n=48429![[image loading]](http://img.ruliweb.daum.net/data/news13/08m/24/pc/ruliweb_kespa.jpg) President Jeon: "We won't just watch if they become a company exploits young players."협회가 확인한 바에 따르면, IM팀과 LG전자의 정상적인 후원 계약은 지난해(2012년) 10월까지였고, 그 이후 현재(2013년 8월)까지 IM팀이 LG전자로부터 후원금을 지급받지 못한 채 LG전자 로고와 LG-IM팀명 만 유지하며 강동훈 감독이 사재나 소규모 서브 스폰으로 팀을 운영해 왔다. 강동훈 감독은 어렵게 팀을 운영하는 과정에서 많은 빚을 지게 된 것도 확인되었다. As KeSPA confirmed, Incredible Miracle and LG's contract was until the October of 2012, and after that, IM hasn't been payed, and Coach Park has run the team with his own expense and the money from sub-sponsors. It was also confirmed that he got some debts. 협회는 강동훈 감독이 “잘못된 계약을 바로 잡아달라”는 요청에 따라 과거 협회-연맹 간의 갈등관계를 떠나 e스포츠를 대표하는 기관으로 e스포츠 팀 운영 환경 개선을 위해 사실확인을 했고, LG전자와 강동훈 감독 양쪽 의견을 모두 청취했다. By the request of the coach, "to correct the contract", KeSPA investigated on the case as a organization represents the Korean esports scene, and listened to the both sides. LG전자와 IM팀 강동훈 감독은 2012년 10월 계약 만료를 전후해 계약연장에 대해 논의했고, LG전자 측에서는 11월 경 재계약 금액과 조건을 제시했으며 그에 대해 사실상 양자가 합의해 연장 계약이 확정된 것처럼 보였다. LG전자는 LG그룹(회장 구본무) 블로그에 IM팀 인터뷰를 게재하는 등 실질적인 LG전자가 후원하는 LG그룹의 e스포츠 게임단으로 활동 하였다. 연장계약에 대한 계약서도 LG전자가 제안해 상호 검토한 것으로 확인됐다. LG and IM discussed about the contract extension around the extension on October, 2012. LG offered a new contract on the November, and virtually both agreed, so it looked like they agreed the extension. IM went on for activities for LG, including being interviewed for LG's blog. It was also confirmed that the contract was offered by LG, and the both side looked through it. 2012년 12월에도 LG전자 행사에 참석했다. 이러한 과정 속에서 IM팀은 LG전자의 확약을 믿고, 다른 주요한 스폰사의 제의를 모두 거절하는 기회비용도 지불해야 했다. 또한 2013년 4월까지 지속적으로 양자는 활동관계를 공유하며 스폰서 재계약을 위한 협의를 지속했으나 끝내 계약은 성사되지 못했다. Even on the December, IM participated for LG's events. Through this, IM believed in LG, refusing other offers from sponsors. Also, until the April of 2013, They continuously shared activities, and kept discussing for the renewal, but it failed. LG전자는 계약 연장 논의를 계약 만료기간 전후 2개월로 설정했고, 2012년 12월 말경 재계약으로 어렵다는 것을 통보했으니 “잘못한 것이 없다”라고 답변하고 있으나, 실제 재계약 논의기간 중 LG전자는 수차례 계약을 확약한 바 있고, 최종 재계약 불가를 양자가 모두 확실하게 인지한 시기는 2013년 4월로 재계약 논의기간이 4개월 더 지난 시점이었다. LG set the period of negotiation 2 months, and they notified that the renewal is difficult on the December, so they've done "nothing wrong", but during the period, LG continuously confirmed the contract, and the period that both of them recognized that the renewal was impossible was actually the April of 2013, four more months later. 협회는 해당내용을 모두 인지하고 실무차원에서 재계약이 원활히 이뤄질 수 있도록 LG전자와 IM팀을 중재하고자 했으나, LG전자는 기회비용 보상비 차원에서 천 만원 정도의 향후 행사약속 수준으로 무마시키고자 했다. The Association recognized all the facts above, and tried to arbitrate LG and IM, but LG tried to cover this up with a promise of events with a reward around $10, 000 Pay particular attention to the bottom half. Not sure if they got an agreement hashed out on paper with all the bells and whistles, but it definitely seems that IM thought the deal was in the bag, if not outright finalized. There was also the attempted bribe, if that sort of thing gets to you.
Unless it was "hashed out on paper with all the bells and whistles," I don't think they can do anything. Then again, I don't know anything about Korean law.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On October 24 2013 08:39 rasers wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2013 07:14 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:On October 24 2013 06:38 rasers wrote:On October 24 2013 06:10 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
Took long enough. I hope kespa manages to tear a chunk out of LG's wallet in a lawsuit. Nevertheless, I think the guys in here boycotting LG and throwing monitors out windows need to reconsider their actions. LG doesn't care, you won't hurt their bottom line enough for them to give a shit. What you will do, though, is make potential future sponsors back out on the whole esports thing. We don't offer good ROI, and if investors realize that they can suffer violent backlash from the community for pulling out, they'll stay away. The benefits we offer aren't enough to counterbalance that kind of risk.
Not that I personally balance my actions around ESPORTS and how I affect it, but for those of you that do, just something to consider. Which lawsuit? :D dafuq are they going 2 do "oh we didn'T have a contract for a year. but we kept showing them as sponsors? so please give us money now? :D dafuq? there was never a fucking contract so gl with that lawsuit. On August 08 2013 18:47 egernya wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Source: http://www.thisisgame.com/esports/news/nboard/162/?n=48429President Jeon: "We won't just watch if they become a company exploits young players."협회가 확인한 바에 따르면, IM팀과 LG전자의 정상적인 후원 계약은 지난해(2012년) 10월까지였고, 그 이후 현재(2013년 8월)까지 IM팀이 LG전자로부터 후원금을 지급받지 못한 채 LG전자 로고와 LG-IM팀명 만 유지하며 강동훈 감독이 사재나 소규모 서브 스폰으로 팀을 운영해 왔다. 강동훈 감독은 어렵게 팀을 운영하는 과정에서 많은 빚을 지게 된 것도 확인되었다. As KeSPA confirmed, Incredible Miracle and LG's contract was until the October of 2012, and after that, IM hasn't been payed, and Coach Park has run the team with his own expense and the money from sub-sponsors. It was also confirmed that he got some debts. 협회는 강동훈 감독이 “잘못된 계약을 바로 잡아달라”는 요청에 따라 과거 협회-연맹 간의 갈등관계를 떠나 e스포츠를 대표하는 기관으로 e스포츠 팀 운영 환경 개선을 위해 사실확인을 했고, LG전자와 강동훈 감독 양쪽 의견을 모두 청취했다. By the request of the coach, "to correct the contract", KeSPA investigated on the case as a organization represents the Korean esports scene, and listened to the both sides. LG전자와 IM팀 강동훈 감독은 2012년 10월 계약 만료를 전후해 계약연장에 대해 논의했고, LG전자 측에서는 11월 경 재계약 금액과 조건을 제시했으며 그에 대해 사실상 양자가 합의해 연장 계약이 확정된 것처럼 보였다. LG전자는 LG그룹(회장 구본무) 블로그에 IM팀 인터뷰를 게재하는 등 실질적인 LG전자가 후원하는 LG그룹의 e스포츠 게임단으로 활동 하였다. 연장계약에 대한 계약서도 LG전자가 제안해 상호 검토한 것으로 확인됐다. LG and IM discussed about the contract extension around the extension on October, 2012. LG offered a new contract on the November, and virtually both agreed, so it looked like they agreed the extension. IM went on for activities for LG, including being interviewed for LG's blog. It was also confirmed that the contract was offered by LG, and the both side looked through it. 2012년 12월에도 LG전자 행사에 참석했다. 이러한 과정 속에서 IM팀은 LG전자의 확약을 믿고, 다른 주요한 스폰사의 제의를 모두 거절하는 기회비용도 지불해야 했다. 또한 2013년 4월까지 지속적으로 양자는 활동관계를 공유하며 스폰서 재계약을 위한 협의를 지속했으나 끝내 계약은 성사되지 못했다. Even on the December, IM participated for LG's events. Through this, IM believed in LG, refusing other offers from sponsors. Also, until the April of 2013, They continuously shared activities, and kept discussing for the renewal, but it failed. LG전자는 계약 연장 논의를 계약 만료기간 전후 2개월로 설정했고, 2012년 12월 말경 재계약으로 어렵다는 것을 통보했으니 “잘못한 것이 없다”라고 답변하고 있으나, 실제 재계약 논의기간 중 LG전자는 수차례 계약을 확약한 바 있고, 최종 재계약 불가를 양자가 모두 확실하게 인지한 시기는 2013년 4월로 재계약 논의기간이 4개월 더 지난 시점이었다. LG set the period of negotiation 2 months, and they notified that the renewal is difficult on the December, so they've done "nothing wrong", but during the period, LG continuously confirmed the contract, and the period that both of them recognized that the renewal was impossible was actually the April of 2013, four more months later. 협회는 해당내용을 모두 인지하고 실무차원에서 재계약이 원활히 이뤄질 수 있도록 LG전자와 IM팀을 중재하고자 했으나, LG전자는 기회비용 보상비 차원에서 천 만원 정도의 향후 행사약속 수준으로 무마시키고자 했다. The Association recognized all the facts above, and tried to arbitrate LG and IM, but LG tried to cover this up with a promise of events with a reward around $10, 000 Pay particular attention to the bottom half. Not sure if they got an agreement hashed out on paper with all the bells and whistles, but it definitely seems that IM thought the deal was in the bag, if not outright finalized. There was also the attempted bribe, if that sort of thing gets to you. The thing is. NO ONE CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARES what IM thought. there is no contract nothing on paper. just words. like how stupid do you have to be to run around for months thinking you got a sponsor when u didn't even sign a contract.
it does sound like words since if there was any sort of contract, then LG wouldn't be able to escape and would have to follow the contract. Having said that, this is all speculation since we don't know just what was said between them.
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On October 24 2013 06:35 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2013 05:35 Kheve wrote:On October 24 2013 03:32 GreenMash wrote:On October 24 2013 03:18 Noocta wrote:
I wonder if these big companies are starting to feel like big investment aren't worth it.
We don't have any team with a head sponsor anymore since EG has been dropped by Raidcall. Every Kespa team? B4 the recent kespa open door policy, title sponsors are essentially wat separates the pro-teams and the esf teams. Hence why STX-soul was part of kespa but soul is now part of esf. Basically between the haves and haves not. Also kespa teams enjoy certain rights with their sponsors. Employment benefit etc are covered by the law. Whereas esf teams rights with their sponsors are only covered by their negotiated contract. Samsung now owns the Khan team renamed Galaxy. So far only Samsung is the bright light in esports. Wish Apple would sponsors some esport team since thy are so much richer...... oh wait apple is richer due to their corporate culture in not giving back to the community. Hate to be the bearer of bad news but the return rate sponsors get from this is negligible. Heck, GOM isn't really helping the Korean teams either by not sharing their statistics for the teams to use to give potential sponsors a better idea ( they have their reasons!). I'm sure Raidcall and Steel Series were playing a similar tune too after they saw what they were getting from it. At the end of the day, if you want those sponsorship dollars you have to be able to show a return in investment. Not many teams have the capability of doing this.
And what exactly are those reasons? I mean, it's quite easy to see that the Korean scene is really hurting right now, if not outright dying. FXOBoss talked about that issue years ago and GOM really seemed backwards with not revealing their numbers, and not knowing the stream numbers makes it less attractive to sponsors.
Anyway, 500 million won in USD:
https://www.google.com/search?q=500 million won in usd
$472,500. Nearly half a million sponsorship. No way that SC2 is providing a return on that investment with the state it's right now. Whether in Korea or globally.
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On October 24 2013 02:53 Cheeselicker wrote:
Not going to buy any more LG products now.
Don't be like that. LG put half a million dollars into sponsoring a SC2 team, show them some love.
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LG put half a million dollars into sc2 and ditched it once it wasn't "the thing" anymore...
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StarCraft 2 in South Korea is 100% dying. I talked to a friend who owns a franchise of PC BANGS called NETBAR (8 branches in Seoul) and he said once in a blue moon would he see someone playing Starcraft 2. It was so bad that most of the computers that that Starcraft 2 hasn't been patched in months and in some cases a few years.
I have no problem with accepting this and look forward to seeing Starcraft 2 become a more global centric game rather than so Korea-focused.
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I was just looking at their page the other day and wondering why they still had the LG tag.
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On October 24 2013 09:27 zezamer wrote:
LG put half a million dollars into sc2 and ditched it once it wasn't "the thing" anymore...
welcome to the real world.
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On October 24 2013 02:31 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2013 02:30 Lorch wrote:On October 24 2013 02:24 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 24 2013 02:21 Chexx wrote:On October 24 2013 02:20 lolfail9001 wrote:
Dammit, that sucks. I hope IM kept old uniform :D.
Also, it's me or 500k $ per year is not really much? Especially considering that part of it (and probably largest one) went to LoL team. Pretty sure that the LoL team didnt get much from that. Then dropping this sponsorship could make sense, considering that SC2 is not in the best form in Korea. Ever since esports started in korea teams have been begging LG to sponsor them. Even during the absolute height of Brood War they weren't willing to do so. It was not until star 2 that they started investing by sponsoring a few gsls and even hosting some of their own events (to promote their products but still) and on top of that they decided to sponsor IM, and I'm fairly sure that was 100% based on the sc2 squad as a) I'm not even sure whether IM already had a LoL squad prior the sponsorship b) their lol team has pretty much no results and c) on all the pictures from the signing there are only sc2 players. If I were to sponsor a progaming team with that kind of money and then went into renegotiations or even thought about changing my mind I would have also jumped ship when kespa started to nag me about it. Yeah, but whatever, LG sponsoring few GSLs (including that ridiculous super tournament, that is responsible for like 35% of Polt's winnings) and sponsorship of IM for their sc2 squad made 0 sense to me, considering they never really sponsored BW.
The Brood War audience
was almost exclusively Korean, while sc2 is decidedly global.
From a marketing perspective it makes perfect sense to favor sc2 over Brood War.
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The good news is that State's alternate ID IMhardFoU makes sense again, now that IM and FoU are the formal names once again.
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Every time a sc2 tournament was happening at the same venue as a trade show Nestea and MVP where attending afaik. LG would have been pretty far down my list of booths to visit if it weren't the autograph signing that they always had. Because of that I think both sides came out even in the end.
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On October 24 2013 09:27 Partha wrote:
StarCraft 2 in South Korea is 100% dying. I talked to a friend who owns a franchise of PC BANGS called NETBAR (8 branches in Seoul) and he said once in a blue moon would he see someone playing Starcraft 2. It was so bad that most of the computers that that Starcraft 2 hasn't been patched in months and in some cases a few years.
I have no problem with accepting this and look forward to seeing Starcraft 2 become a more global centric game rather than so Korea-focused.
But will that necessarily be beneficial? As we all know, the highest level of play in SC2 derived from Korean. Majority of the audience only care to see professional games played optimally. W/o a Korean scene, its game over for that type of gameplay thus meaning that the core audience of SC2 would definitely not prefer. This create a drop in viewership, followed by diminishing sponsorship money, later by the incentive to "go pro" at the game, furthering the decrease in gameplay.
When Korean SC2 infrastructure collapse, don't you think for one moment that it is good for the SC2 industry. It is, more or less, the nails in the coffin for the professional scene.
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470000 dollar a year. Damn, that's good money. I knew IM was stacked but that's a big blow to them.
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On October 24 2013 09:46 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2013 09:27 Partha wrote:
StarCraft 2 in South Korea is 100% dying. I talked to a friend who owns a franchise of PC BANGS called NETBAR (8 branches in Seoul) and he said once in a blue moon would he see someone playing Starcraft 2. It was so bad that most of the computers that that Starcraft 2 hasn't been patched in months and in some cases a few years.
I have no problem with accepting this and look forward to seeing Starcraft 2 become a more global centric game rather than so Korea-focused. But will that necessarily be beneficial? As we all know, the highest level of play in SC2 derived from Korean. Majority of the audience only care to see professional games played optimally. W/o a Korean scene, its game over for that type of gameplay thus meaning that the core audience of SC2 would definitely not prefer. This create a drop in viewership, followed by diminishing sponsorship money, later by the incentive to "go pro" at the game, furthering the decrease in gameplay. When Korean SC2 infrastructure collapse, don't you think for one moment that it is good for the SC2 industry. It is, more or less, the nails in the coffin for the professional scene.
We are only assuming that because we've never giving foreigners a legitimate chance to shoot for the top. When MLG/DH/WCS and other tourneys started flooding in Koreans, of course they were going to win the majority of prize money. They have fucking team houses/coaches/maids/robotsexservants, how are foreigners supposed to compete with that?
If the Korean scene was to shrink dramatically, we will have foreigners who have legit chances at the top 1-3 and thus they will try to improve their play. Legitimate competition= skill rise.
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On October 24 2013 09:46 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2013 09:27 Partha wrote:
StarCraft 2 in South Korea is 100% dying. I talked to a friend who owns a franchise of PC BANGS called NETBAR (8 branches in Seoul) and he said once in a blue moon would he see someone playing Starcraft 2. It was so bad that most of the computers that that Starcraft 2 hasn't been patched in months and in some cases a few years.
I have no problem with accepting this and look forward to seeing Starcraft 2 become a more global centric game rather than so Korea-focused. But will that necessarily be beneficial? As we all know, the highest level of play in SC2 derived from Korean. Majority of the audience only care to see professional games played optimally. W/o a Korean scene, its game over for that type of gameplay thus meaning that the core audience of SC2 would definitely not prefer. This create a drop in viewership, followed by diminishing sponsorship money, later by the incentive to "go pro" at the game, furthering the decrease in gameplay. When Korean SC2 infrastructure collapse, don't you think for one moment that it is good for the SC2 industry. It is, more or less, the nails in the coffin for the professional scene.
Well, if you want to draw a historical parallel, the Korean scene collapsing in War3 didn't hurt the professional scene all that much.
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I kind of wish teams would put out expense reports. Would be interesting to see what nearly half a million dollars gets you for an SC2 team compared to others that one on fumes (TSL and Prime). I bet 50% of the money went into housing/rent.
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On October 24 2013 09:56 Partha wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2013 09:46 Xiphos wrote:On October 24 2013 09:27 Partha wrote:
StarCraft 2 in South Korea is 100% dying. I talked to a friend who owns a franchise of PC BANGS called NETBAR (8 branches in Seoul) and he said once in a blue moon would he see someone playing Starcraft 2. It was so bad that most of the computers that that Starcraft 2 hasn't been patched in months and in some cases a few years.
I have no problem with accepting this and look forward to seeing Starcraft 2 become a more global centric game rather than so Korea-focused. But will that necessarily be beneficial? As we all know, the highest level of play in SC2 derived from Korean. Majority of the audience only care to see professional games played optimally. W/o a Korean scene, its game over for that type of gameplay thus meaning that the core audience of SC2 would definitely not prefer. This create a drop in viewership, followed by diminishing sponsorship money, later by the incentive to "go pro" at the game, furthering the decrease in gameplay. When Korean SC2 infrastructure collapse, don't you think for one moment that it is good for the SC2 industry. It is, more or less, the nails in the coffin for the professional scene. We are only assuming that because we've never giving foreigners a legitimate chance to shoot for the top. When MLG/DH/WCS and other tourneys started flooding in Koreans, of course they were going to win the majority of prize money. They have fucking team houses/coaches/maids/robotsexservants, how are foreigners supposed to compete with that? If the Korean scene was to shrink dramatically, we will have foreigners who have legit chances at the top 1-3 and thus they will try to improve their play. Legitimate competition= skill rise.
How many chances do foreigners have already? You saying the MLG/DH/WCS leagues. Any foreigner can sign up to and compete, that's plenty of chance to prove yourself. The Korean have the infrastructure to improve your gameplay wholeheartedly. Foreigners have the change of becoming really good in order to enroll themselves into that atmosphere. W/o that environment (because of Korea SC2 scene's destruction), you can't advance yourself further.
So no, w/o Korea team houses, people will retire, skill will drop. Can't argue with that.
On October 24 2013 10:00 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2013 09:46 Xiphos wrote:On October 24 2013 09:27 Partha wrote:
StarCraft 2 in South Korea is 100% dying. I talked to a friend who owns a franchise of PC BANGS called NETBAR (8 branches in Seoul) and he said once in a blue moon would he see someone playing Starcraft 2. It was so bad that most of the computers that that Starcraft 2 hasn't been patched in months and in some cases a few years.
I have no problem with accepting this and look forward to seeing Starcraft 2 become a more global centric game rather than so Korea-focused. But will that necessarily be beneficial? As we all know, the highest level of play in SC2 derived from Korean. Majority of the audience only care to see professional games played optimally. W/o a Korean scene, its game over for that type of gameplay thus meaning that the core audience of SC2 would definitely not prefer. This create a drop in viewership, followed by diminishing sponsorship money, later by the incentive to "go pro" at the game, furthering the decrease in gameplay. When Korean SC2 infrastructure collapse, don't you think for one moment that it is good for the SC2 industry. It is, more or less, the nails in the coffin for the professional scene. Well, if you want to draw a historical parallel, the Korean scene collapsing in War3 didn't hurt the professional scene all that much.
That's because other countries can already compete head-to-head with the Koreans in WC3 so skill level was retained for viewers. Give another example.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
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did no one speculate that LG might be making their own team? like Samsung KHAN????????
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EPT
