Format The Global Finals will place the top 16 players of the WCS Standings in a single elimination tournament. The map pool will be identical to that of WCS Season 3, and all matches will be best-of-five, except the finals, which will feature a best-of-seven series.
Seeding Each player’s placement in the WCS Standings represents the culmination of their efforts over the course of this year’s World Championship Series competition. We want to reward the performances of the highest scoring players by giving them the greatest advantage possible. Global Finals seeding will pit players ranked 1st and 16th against each other, 2nd vs. 15th, and so on, until all 16 competitors have been matched with an opponent.
On October 22 2013 04:53 StarStruck wrote: So is it still 6 hours for the round of 16 considering they are doing bo5 all the way through to finals? lol :O
If there have 2 streams, they can do it. Or they can chose not to show all matches.
Worth noting for qualification ties (aka Naniwa/Revival possibility)
Ties within the Top 16 seeded players Ties within the top 16 WCS players will be decided by cumulative points earned only in World Championship Series America, Europe, Korea, and Season Finals events. If a tie remains, it will be settled through points earned only in WCS Tier 1 events. If the players in question are still tied, seeding will be decided by coin-toss.
Ties for qualification to the Global Finals If there is a tie across the Global Finals cutoff, the players in question will travel to BlizzCon to play an offline, best-of-five match to decide who will be seeded into the WCS Global Finals bracket.
"Ties for qualification to the Global Finals If there is a tie across the Global Finals cutoff, the players in question will travel to BlizzCon to play an offline, best-of-five match to decide who will be seeded into the WCS Global Finals bracket. "
interesting to know if the trip will be paid by blizz, if y looser get free blizzcon trip not bad
Ties within the Top 16 seeded players Ties within the top 16 WCS players will be decided by cumulative points earned only in World Championship Series America, Europe, Korea, and Season Finals events. If a tie remains, it will be settled through points earned only in WCS Tier 1 events. If the players in question are still tied, seeding will be decided by coin-toss.
Ties for qualification to the Global Finals If there is a tie across the Global Finals cutoff, the players in question will travel to BlizzCon to play an offline, best-of-five match to decide who will be seeded into the WCS Global Finals bracket.
On October 22 2013 05:05 Killmouse wrote: "Ties for qualification to the Global Finals If there is a tie across the Global Finals cutoff, the players in question will travel to BlizzCon to play an offline, best-of-five match to decide who will be seeded into the WCS Global Finals bracket. "
interesting to know if the trip will be paid by blizz, if y looser get free blizzcon trip not bad
that was the first thing that came to my mind too. i guess they pretty much would have to pay it though. imagine spending a lot of money and time and energy on travelling all the way from Korea to Blizzcon just to lose one match and not even get to play in the actual tournament. kind of a dumb setup in the first place but whatever, there probably won't be a tie anyways.
Ties within the top 16 WCS players will be decided by cumulative points earned only in World Championship Series America, Europe, Korea, and Season Finals events. If a tie remains, it will be settled through points earned only in WCS Tier 1 events. If the players in question are still tied, seeding will be decided by coin-toss.
This means if Revival gets 1st or 2nd in his Challanger group, he's gonna surpass Naniwa ;( Which would mean that if even a single other player gets 3200+ points, Naniwa is out... T.T
Ties within the top 16 WCS players will be decided by cumulative points earned only in World Championship Series America, Europe, Korea, and Season Finals events. If a tie remains, it will be settled through points earned only in WCS Tier 1 events. If the players in question are still tied, seeding will be decided by coin-toss.
This means if Revival gets 1st or 2nd in his Challanger group, he's gonna surpass Naniwa ;( Which would mean that if even a single other player gets 3200+ points, Naniwa is out... T.T
No that's to determine the seed, like 15th and 16th players are tied so to determine if which one will have the 15 and 16th seed. One gets 15th so he plays vs 2nd seed and the other gets 16th and plays vs 1st seed.
For ties for the 16th place to quality it says: (as mentioned previously)
Ties for qualification to the Global Finals If there is a tie across the Global Finals cutoff, the players in question will travel to BlizzCon to play an offline, best-of-five match to decide who will be seeded into the WCS Global Finals bracket.
ah well they should at least allow seed 1-8 to pick their first opponent. 3 more weeks to go. online watching we only get 2 days worth of matches though i suppose there will be vods later.
I hope there are no/few PvP, PvZ, or ZvZ's in the Ro16. I am not particularly rooting for a particular race, but it will be a lot more interesting if it is not all Terrans, even though I enjoy high level TvT.
(Though, if a race has to die out, Protoss can be it. Protoss = considerably higher chance of boring games)
Awesome. I was hoping they would use this exact format, it's the only thing that would've felt right. Totally supportive of this, especially the seeding.
On October 22 2013 05:55 XaCez wrote: Feels utterly bizarre to use a different format for the Grand Finals in comparison to both the regional and seasonal finals.
Feels pretty normal to me. BlizzCon is not a season finals. It's way different and bigger. However I would have preferred a double elimination bracket.
On October 22 2013 05:01 Heyoka wrote: I'm a little sad at single elim 16 player bracket but I guess they gotta do what they can with the time/setup available.
What do you expect? EVERY single pro sport does a single elim when it gets to bracket phase. Do you see teams in the NBA/NFL/MLB getting a second chance when they get knocked out? I don't get why so many people in esports cry for a second chance.... A best of 5 is plenty enough games where the better player will win.
On October 22 2013 05:55 XaCez wrote: Feels utterly bizarre to use a different format for the Grand Finals in comparison to both the regional and seasonal finals.
Feels pretty normal to me. BlizzCon is not a season finals. It's way different and bigger. However I would have preferred a double elimination bracket.
I think this is fine from a hype and good games point of view, MLG winter used the same system with bo5 single elimination and it was one of the best tournaments ever.
I feel the double elimination is only really important when people get eliminated in short series. Plus it removes any chance of people crying over any outcome when there are rematches in double elim this way.
I'm very excited for this, although I have missed most of the last major tournaments. As always, go Mvp !
I agree this sounds really nice; no RO16 Group Stage might be less "fair" to the players but it makes it more exciting to watch, Bo5 is the perfect series length until the finals. Also very glad the NaNiwa/Revival tiebreaker will be offline Bo5; that's pretty much the best solution I could have hoped for. I also really like the #1 vs #16 etc style instead of random seeds; good way to reward the top players and create more hype around the final spots everyone ends up in.
So looking forward to this. MLG Winter 2013 was the same format and it was awesome. I'm just sad that Flash and Life didnt make it....not even closely.
So, is SC2 a dead game now? Where are the prophets of DOOOOM?
On October 22 2013 08:28 FanaticCZ wrote: So looking forward to this. MLG Winter 2013 was the same format and it was awesome. I'm just sad that Flash and Life didnt make it....not even closely.
Or what if this Blizzcon had Nestea vs MVP, like the last Blizzcon for nostalgia sake.
I hope soO and Dear keep Naniwa out. I don't think there is a doubt that both of them are in better form than Naniwa, not that they were ever in worse form than Naniwa. Dear winning KR and not making it to the Grand Finals would be outrageous.
On October 22 2013 05:49 Strivers wrote: Hero vs MC in the First Round. My two favorite protoss
? That matchup isnt very likely to happen. HerO is at 5, so right now he'd play Alive. If you look at the standings, its not that likely that HerO drops at all and MC is only really in danger of dropping a spot to Duckdeok.
On October 22 2013 04:53 Zealously wrote: So are we getting another Naniwa vs Innovation stomp? Cool
Actually it's quite possible that Polt or Jaedong will end up no.1
Overall, there are 8 players that have a chance to pass Innovation. Maybe none of them will get enough points, but these are exactly the players that Naniwa needs to do well in order to keep the players below him from passing him.
So, if Naniwa doesn't get eliminated, some players will probably have passed Innovation.
On October 22 2013 08:33 TaishiCi wrote: I hope soO and Dear keep Naniwa out. I don't think there is a doubt that both of them are in better form than Naniwa, not that they were ever in worse form than Naniwa. Dear winning KR and not making it to the Grand Finals would be outrageous.
I really hope Naniwa will get there. I hope for the sake of SC2, many more people will be watching and the event will have much more success with at least one foreigner in there. If naniwa doesnt qualify i bet there will be at least 30% people less watching the event.
On October 22 2013 09:01 RaiZ wrote: Not sure the bo5 in all those games will please the audience, final in bo7 is definitely too much... Time will tell though.
final bo 7 too much? wtf are u talking about a different game? cauz bo7 finals is pretty standard in sc2
On October 22 2013 08:33 TaishiCi wrote: I hope soO and Dear keep Naniwa out. I don't think there is a doubt that both of them are in better form than Naniwa, not that they were ever in worse form than Naniwa. Dear winning KR and not making it to the Grand Finals would be outrageous.
I really hope Naniwa will get there. I hope for the sake of SC2, many more people will be watching and the event will have much more success with at least one foreigner in there. If naniwa doesnt qualify i bet there will be at least 30% people less watching the event.
I really don't think the difference between one foreigner and none will mean 30% dip. Maybe if it was between 20% foreigners and no foreigners. If you define success as in views instead of getting the highest quality matches between the best players, I feel sorry that you can't appreciate starcraft.
On October 22 2013 08:33 TaishiCi wrote: I hope soO and Dear keep Naniwa out. I don't think there is a doubt that both of them are in better form than Naniwa, not that they were ever in worse form than Naniwa. Dear winning KR and not making it to the Grand Finals would be outrageous.
I really hope Naniwa will get there. I hope for the sake of SC2, many more people will be watching and the event will have much more success with at least one foreigner in there. If naniwa doesnt qualify i bet there will be at least 30% people less watching the event.
I really don't think the difference between one foreigner and none will mean 30% dip. Maybe if it was between 20% foreigners and no foreigners. If you define success as in views instead of getting the highest quality matches between the best players, I feel sorry that you can't appreciate starcraft.
On October 22 2013 08:33 TaishiCi wrote: I hope soO and Dear keep Naniwa out. I don't think there is a doubt that both of them are in better form than Naniwa, not that they were ever in worse form than Naniwa. Dear winning KR and not making it to the Grand Finals would be outrageous.
I really hope Naniwa will get there. I hope for the sake of SC2, many more people will be watching and the event will have much more success with at least one foreigner in there. If naniwa doesnt qualify i bet there will be at least 30% people less watching the event.
I really don't think the difference between one foreigner and none will mean 30% dip. Maybe if it was between 20% foreigners and no foreigners. If you define success as in views instead of getting the highest quality matches between the best players, I feel sorry that you can't appreciate starcraft.
IEM NY is a good example of one foreigner increasing the viewer number by ALOT. I for one will watch some either way but I will be so much more interested if Nani makes it. The foreigner vs Koreans stories is what draws me the most nowadays and I know plenty that feel the same.
And what do you base Nani not being a good enough player on? He just recently came second in a pretty damn stacked tourney beating the beast Hyun, beating San, Hack(twice) and playing really well vs. life. a set he could definitely have won looking at the individual games.. Naniwas form is good and I'd say if you actually earn enough points to be top 16 you damn well deserve it.. The point of the format is to reward success over the year not just winning one tourney, that would kinda defeat the purpouse of ranking... it's like any sport that has similar systems... you don't get automatically a huge rank cause you win one big tourney in the end of the year.. it goes up for sure but you have to perform steadily.
I do also think Naniwas being in the tournament increases viewership. He played really well in IEM NY, and almost won against that Korean Z guy in the final, and did a remarkable comeback against the other Korean Z in the semis. He definitely deserves to be in the finals. So i get someone to root for besides Jaedong.
I have to say that the races in the finals are almost perfectly balanced. Just two or three Z away from perfect balance. Even though it is 50% Terran.
I don't know if my case will tell something, but since I switched to Dota 2 I obviously watch a lot less of sc2. Still watching big events, but not as much as before when I used to watch almost everything. And Naniwa making it to the event will probably help me watching. Anyway I'ill probably give it an eye, but Naniwa's presence would help to increase my hype.
On October 22 2013 08:33 TaishiCi wrote: I hope soO and Dear keep Naniwa out. I don't think there is a doubt that both of them are in better form than Naniwa, not that they were ever in worse form than Naniwa. Dear winning KR and not making it to the Grand Finals would be outrageous.
I don't like NaNiwa very much either, he's a complete fucking hypocrite and complains when anyone but him makes excuses for losing even though he makes excuses all the time + Show Spoiler +
and he's bm as fuck
, but I think it would be more hilarious if only one of Oz/soO/Dear make top 4 and him and Revival tie for 16th place and Revival beats him at BlizzCon making him one Bo5 short of qualifying for the main tournament therefore going to BlizzCon and getting 0 prize money for it... Unless Revival is put into an ultimate group of death in challenger league and doesn't make top 2 in it...
But that's just what I want to happen. :D
Also this was left out of the OP:
Ties within the Top 16 seeded players Ties within the top 16 WCS players will be decided by cumulative points earned only in World Championship Series America, Europe, Korea, and Season Finals events. If a tie remains, it will be settled through points earned only in WCS Tier 1 events. If the players in question are still tied, seeding will be decided by coin-toss.
Ties for qualification to the Global Finals If there is a tie across the Global Finals cutoff, the players in question will travel to BlizzCon to play an offline, best-of-five match to decide who will be seeded into the WCS Global Finals bracket.
On October 22 2013 05:55 XaCez wrote: Feels utterly bizarre to use a different format for the Grand Finals in comparison to both the regional and seasonal finals.
Feels pretty normal to me. BlizzCon is not a season finals. It's way different and bigger. However I would have preferred a double elimination bracket.
I think this is fine from a hype and good games point of view, MLG winter used the same system with bo5 single elimination and it was one of the best tournaments ever.
Yeah, in fact you're right, it's probably better from a spectator view in terms of tension. The only point who annoys me is the fact that half of the players will travel a lot to play only one match.
On October 22 2013 05:55 XaCez wrote: Feels utterly bizarre to use a different format for the Grand Finals in comparison to both the regional and seasonal finals.
Feels pretty normal to me. BlizzCon is not a season finals. It's way different and bigger. However I would have preferred a double elimination bracket.
I think this is fine from a hype and good games point of view, MLG winter used the same system with bo5 single elimination and it was one of the best tournaments ever.
Yeah, in fact you're right, it's probably better from a spectator view in terms of tension. The only point who annoys me is the fact that half of the players will travel a lot to play only one match.
I'm starting to come around to single-elim, they've had the entire season to improve their standings, so if you come 16th and get knocked out instantly well that's just too bad. I mean it's not like Wimbledon is double-elim right? That's only 1 match to lose and you're out.
Top 5 personal favorite outcomes(based on current ranking):
1. (a)Jaedong/MVP(b)Jaedong/MMA(c)Jaedong/Innovation(srybomber ) 2.Mvp/MC(new form) 3.MVp/Maru(both in new forms(drool)) 4.Naniwa/MVp
4 was already stretching it, and 2 or 3 switched I can't decide!!!!!! So hyped!! IF only life was here.
p.s, it's funny to note pretty much every single important terran since beta are here, mkp yes, but in terms of results nay.
MVp, bomber, mma, polt, taeja, innovation and new osl winner maru. The bosstoss....the tyrant...........and mo fuckin Naniwa???? Please, it's just to good, and I like the bo5's maybe loser bracket of bo3's but that's just icing. So happy, so hyped.
On October 22 2013 13:10 Yakikorosu wrote: I like how you can split the current Top 16 into 4 groups of 4 players each:
2011 GSL All-Stars: Mvp, MC, MMA, Bomber
Foreigner Favorites: Polt, HerO, TaeJa, NaNiwa
The KeSPA Invasion: INnoVation, Soulkey, Jaedong, sOs
We've Been Around Forever and Now We REALLY Mean It: aLive, duckdeok, Maru, Revival
Polts also a 2011 gsl allstar though
I know but then I wouldn't have that awesome 4-4-4-4 symmetry
Honestly I admit it's kind of a stretch putting Bomber in the first category at all; his biggest GSL accomplishment in 2011 was winning Code A. He probably belongs more in the last group than anything.
On October 22 2013 13:10 Yakikorosu wrote: I like how you can split the current Top 16 into 4 groups of 4 players each:
2011 GSL All-Stars: Mvp, MC, MMA, Bomber
Foreigner Favorites: Polt, HerO, TaeJa, NaNiwa
The KeSPA Invasion: INnoVation, Soulkey, Jaedong, sOs
We've Been Around Forever and Now We REALLY Mean It: aLive, duckdeok, Maru, Revival
Polts also a 2011 gsl allstar though
I know but then I wouldn't have that awesome 4-4-4-4 symmetry
Honestly I admit it's kind of a stretch putting Bomber in the first category at all; his biggest GSL accomplishment in 2011 was winning Code A. He probably belongs more in the last group than anything.
Yeah sry hahah And yeah Bomber greatest achievments in 2011 are code A and being the most hyped player
Ties within the top 16 WCS players will be decided by cumulative points earned only in World Championship Series America, Europe, Korea, and Season Finals events. If a tie remains, it will be settled through points earned only in WCS Tier 1 events. If the players in question are still tied, seeding will be decided by coin-toss.
This means if Revival gets 1st or 2nd in his Challanger group, he's gonna surpass Naniwa ;( Which would mean that if even a single other player gets 3200+ points, Naniwa is out... T.T
Doesn't Revival only get 25 points for Challenger? If that happens he'll be equal with nani on points and players equal across the threshold will all go to Blizzcon and play a Bo5 to determine who goes into the main comp.
Blizzard is spending a lot of money to get the Korean players to Canada to compete.
Not trying to be entirely pessimistic. Just saying that since most of the SC2 players are Korean, or I imagine are in Korea now, it would just be cheaper to hold the WCS World Finals in Daegu, Seoul, Incheon, or Busan. Besides, I'm in Korea now :D
On October 22 2013 15:14 Enders116 wrote: Blizzard is spending a lot of money to get the Korean players to Canada to compete.
Not trying to be entirely pessimistic. Just saying that since most of the SC2 players are Korean, or I imagine are in Korea now, it would just be cheaper to hold the WCS World Finals in Daegu, Seoul, Incheon, or Busan. Besides, I'm in Korea now :D
You mean California where BlizzCon is being held? Don't confuse the Season 3 finals with BlizzCon. Huge difference. >_>
On October 22 2013 15:14 Enders116 wrote: Blizzard is spending a lot of money to get the Korean players to Canada to compete.
Not trying to be entirely pessimistic. Just saying that since most of the SC2 players are Korean, or I imagine are in Korea now, it would just be cheaper to hold the WCS World Finals in Daegu, Seoul, Incheon, or Busan. Besides, I'm in Korea now :D
You mean California where BlizzCon is being held? Don't confuse the Season 3 finals with BlizzCon. Huge difference. >_>
Whooaaa, after I stopped following WCS (I only watched the season finals so far), I'm really looking forward to Blizzcon since this is suge a HUGE bracket with so many people to cheer for! Aaaaaah I'm hyped already =)
I'd rather have bo3 (bo5 or 7 in the finals ofc) with double elimination, but as someone said, they probably don't have time for that. Really looking forward to it though, regardless!
Nice Blizzard, BO5. This tournament just got even better Only issue now is how many of the games they will stream as they only have a few streams Just hoping for the best xD
I would have liked to see them follow the same setup as the Season Finals (ro16 in 4 groups, then quarterfinals and onwards as single elimination bracket), but I guess they wouldn't have time for that during Blizzcon. I'm still so excited for this thing though, and imagine the story line if Naniwa qualifies as the only foreigner. He'll probably have to play either Innovation, Jaedong or Polt in the first round! Would be soooo sick if he was to qualify for Blizzcon, and then get really far into the brackets!
"We want to reward the performances of the highest scoring players by giving them the greatest advantage possible. Global Finals seeding will pit players ranked 1st and 16th against each other, 2nd vs. 15th, and so on, until all 16 competitors have been matched with an opponent." I hope this doesnt mean a potential 1st vs 2nd at second round, especially in a single tournament. my bracket suggestion: + Show Spoiler +
1st vs 16th 8th vs 9th
5th vs 12th 4th vs 13th
3rd vs 14th 6th vs 11th
7th vs 10th 2nd vs 15th
with this bracket, all top8 from wcs points can be in top8 at this tournament, all 4 in top4. This is a very balanced bracket: everthing is 17 (1+16, 2+15 etc). If all on left side wins, everything is 9 (1+8, 5+4 etc)
Seems to me that NaNiwa is not going to make it. First of all only two of Oz/soO/Dear needs to get 1000 pts (8th place or better) at the Season Finals. (Less likely but not impossible(?): Vortix 1500, Byul/Trap/Genius/Hack 2000 pts.) If that happens both Naniwa and Revival are out.
I think Revival gets (atleast?) 25 more pts in CL (when are those games played btw???) 25 puts him equal to Naniwa and they could play that BO5 offline at Blizzcon, IF only one of the aforementioned "Season Finals"-players get the points they need.
I'm actually really happy about this. One single-elim 16 man bracket to decide the best player of 2013. Sounds pretty epic to me, especially given that all 16 have been competiting and farming points all year long. You can say about wcs whatever you want, and it has a lot of flaws, but imho focusing the entire year on that ONE event at blizzcon is pretty awesome to me.
As much as I love jaedong and I don't want anything more than for him to finally win a star 2 event, mvp getting back to back blizzcons and still being the king in 2013 would just be wayy to epic.
Couldn't care less whether nani makes it. I enjoy his play but I enjoy watching pretty much any top 20 player play, I really don't see a point in wanting somebody in solely based on nationality, seems kinda racist to me.
On October 22 2013 19:46 Dingodile wrote: "We want to reward the performances of the highest scoring players by giving them the greatest advantage possible. Global Finals seeding will pit players ranked 1st and 16th against each other, 2nd vs. 15th, and so on, until all 16 competitors have been matched with an opponent." I hope this doesnt mean a potential 1st vs 2nd at second round, especially in a single tournament. my bracket suggestion: + Show Spoiler +
1st vs 16th 8th vs 9th
5th vs 12th 4th vs 13th
3rd vs 14th 6th vs 11th
7th vs 10th 2nd vs 15th
with this bracket, all top8 from wcs points can be in top8 at this tournament, all 4 in top4. This is a very balanced bracket: everthing is 17 (1+16, 2+15 etc). If all on left side wins, everything is 9 (1+8, 5+4 etc)
You must not have read the whole thing, that's exactly what they're doing and even linked a diagram to it lol
On October 22 2013 21:30 GGDeMoN wrote: im confused.. is this tournament the top 16 wcs ranked points? because on the TL calender it has players like vortix & byul?
The event on Calendar is WCS Season 3 Finals, what we are talking about here is WCS 2013 Global Finals, different thing.
On October 22 2013 22:03 boxerfred wrote: storyline-wise, I'm really hoping for naniwa to make it to blizzcon, and of course win the whole thing against all odds. that would be so huge :D
Jaedong vs Naniwa in the finals, viewership would go through the roof.
On October 22 2013 22:03 boxerfred wrote: storyline-wise, I'm really hoping for naniwa to make it to blizzcon, and of course win the whole thing against all odds. that would be so huge :D
Jaedong vs Naniwa in the finals, viewership would go through the roof.
Ties within the top 16 WCS players will be decided by cumulative points earned only in World Championship Series America, Europe, Korea, and Season Finals events. If a tie remains, it will be settled through points earned only in WCS Tier 1 events. If the players in question are still tied, seeding will be decided by coin-toss.
This means if Revival gets 1st or 2nd in his Challanger group, he's gonna surpass Naniwa ;( Which would mean that if even a single other player gets 3200+ points, Naniwa is out... T.T
Actually no. If he gets 1st in his group he will be tied with Naniwa. This would lead to them both going to blizzcon for a bo5 match to decide which one plays in the real tournament. The quote u have is for ties within the top 16, ties regarding the 16th place is in the lower quote.
On October 22 2013 22:03 boxerfred wrote: storyline-wise, I'm really hoping for naniwa to make it to blizzcon, and of course win the whole thing against all odds. that would be so huge :D
Jaedong vs Naniwa in the finals, viewership would go through the roof.
On October 22 2013 22:03 boxerfred wrote: storyline-wise, I'm really hoping for naniwa to make it to blizzcon, and of course win the whole thing against all odds. that would be so huge :D
Jaedong vs Naniwa in the finals, viewership would go through the roof.
2 kongs cannot be in same finals.
Naniwa won MLG Dallas 2011 so no sc2 kong.
I dare to say that Kingston invitation, that JD won was harder than MLG Dallas 2011. So yeah, kong.
On October 22 2013 20:06 Arno wrote: Seems to me that NaNiwa is not going to make it. First of all only two of Oz/soO/Dear needs to get 1000 pts (8th place or better) at the Season Finals. (Less likely but not impossible(?): Vortix 1500, Byul/Trap/Genius/Hack 2000 pts.) If that happens both Naniwa and Revival are out.
I think Revival gets (atleast?) 25 more pts in CL (when are those games played btw???) 25 puts him equal to Naniwa and they could play that BO5 offline at Blizzcon, IF only one of the aforementioned "Season Finals"-players get the points they need.
No, not looking good for the swede imho.
Not true actually. They need to score 1500 points, they already have the points for being in the ro16 (500 points) added to their totals. So Oz/soO/Dear need 4th or better, Vortix need to make it to the finals and I believe Byul/Trap/Genius/Hack have to win it.
On October 22 2013 22:03 boxerfred wrote: storyline-wise, I'm really hoping for naniwa to make it to blizzcon, and of course win the whole thing against all odds. that would be so huge :D
Jaedong vs Naniwa in the finals, viewership would go through the roof.
2 kongs cannot be in same finals.
Naniwa won MLG Dallas 2011 so no sc2 kong.
I dare to say that Kingston invitation, that JD won was harder than MLG Dallas 2011. So yeah, kong.
Taking a first place by beating Mvp and Nestea back when they were gods sounds pretty hard too.
On October 22 2013 22:03 boxerfred wrote: storyline-wise, I'm really hoping for naniwa to make it to blizzcon, and of course win the whole thing against all odds. that would be so huge :D
Jaedong vs Naniwa in the finals, viewership would go through the roof.
2 kongs cannot be in same finals.
Naniwa won MLG Dallas 2011 so no sc2 kong.
I dare to say that Kingston invitation, that JD won was harder than MLG Dallas 2011. So yeah, kong.
Taking a first place by beating Mvp and Nestea back when they were gods sounds pretty hard too.
This will be a sick tournament, but I'm still sad, that these are not the best players by no means due to the wcs season. I would prefer Rain, Flash, Parting, Dear and Symbol instead of Revival, duckdeok, alive, maru and naniwa, who made it only due to weaker competition in europe and america.
On October 23 2013 02:53 Kamu wrote: This will be a sick tournament, but I'm still sad, that these are not the best players by no means due to the wcs season. I would prefer Rain, Flash, Parting, Dear and Symbol instead of Revival, duckdeok, alive, maru and naniwa, who made it only due to weaker competition in europe and america.
Ah cmon, Flash isnt even a top 5 terran (most likely), i get your point but the top 16 players pretty much all deserve to be there.
This was pretty much expected when they revealed the schedule right?
On October 23 2013 02:53 Kamu wrote: This will be a sick tournament, but I'm still sad, that these are not the best players by no means due to the wcs season. I would prefer Rain, Flash, Parting, Dear and Symbol instead of Revival, duckdeok, alive, maru and naniwa, who made it only due to weaker competition in europe and america.
lol Maru only made it due to weaker competition? I forgot OSL was hosted in Europe last season
dissapointing system, would be super unlucky if dear or soo manages to come in as 16th. Also for such an end tournament it's a bit of a shame it's just knockout. I would rather have had something like 2 competitions of 8, everyone plays a bo1. Then top 2 each go to a top 4. Just more fun. Arguably knockout is the least amount of matches but it also is tougher to plan while a competition or poule system is much easier to run a few matches at the same time. Not sure what kind of schedule they have in mind but I suppose they have to run matches at the same time anyway.
On October 23 2013 02:53 Kamu wrote: This will be a sick tournament, but I'm still sad, that these are not the best players by no means due to the wcs season. I would prefer Rain, Flash, Parting, Dear and Symbol instead of Revival, duckdeok, alive, maru and naniwa, who made it only due to weaker competition in europe and america.
Even though i agree that Rain is missing, i dare say that neither Parting, Flash, Symbol or Dear deserves a spot anymore than those who actually have one.
Parting is very inconsistent and does often times rely heavily on build orders (soul-train for instance). While Symbol is indeed a good player, his score is so low that while he might have had a better score in NA, he would most likely not have made top 16 regardless of his region. For Dear regions didn't even matter since he didn't even play in Premier until season 3. And please don't say that Flash would have made it had he been in EU or NA. Had it not been for his legacy from BW Flash would be a nobody in SC2. When you consisently lose players foreigners and low-tier Koreans i see no reason why you would deserve a spot more than Naniwa for instance.
Also i really don't understand why people still consider Korea to be the strongest region past ro16. People such as Taeja, Hero, Polt, Jaedong and Hyun is every bit as strong as most of the guy in WCS Korea.
On October 23 2013 02:53 Kamu wrote: This will be a sick tournament, but I'm still sad, that these are not the best players by no means due to the wcs season. I would prefer Rain, Flash, Parting, Dear and Symbol instead of Revival, duckdeok, alive, maru and naniwa, who made it only due to weaker competition in europe and america.
Even though i agree that Rain is missing, i dare say that neither Parting, Flash, Symbol or Dear deserves a spot anymore than those who actually have one.
Parting is very inconsistent and does often times rely heavily on build orders (soul-train for instance). While Symbol is indeed a good player, his score is so low that while he might have had a better score in NA, he would most likely not have made top 16 regardless of his region. For Dear regions didn't even matter since he didn't even play in Premier until season 3. And please don't say that Flash would have made it had he been in EU or NA. Had it not been for his legacy from BW Flash would be a nobody in SC2. When you consisently lose players foreigners and low-tier Koreans i see no reason why you would deserve a spot more than Naniwa for instance.
Also i really don't understand why people still consider Korea to be the strongest region past ro16. People such as Taeja, Hero, Polt, Jaedong and Hyun is every bit as strong as most of the guy in WCS Korea.
Korea is the hardest region on all stages though probably.
On October 23 2013 02:53 Kamu wrote: This will be a sick tournament, but I'm still sad, that these are not the best players by no means due to the wcs season. I would prefer Rain, Flash, Parting, Dear and Symbol instead of Revival, duckdeok, alive, maru and naniwa, who made it only due to weaker competition in europe and america.
Rain: Agreed, he should probably be there Flash: Absolutely not, he just failed quite often even against opponents he HAS to beat in order to reach the finals Parting: Even less, there's a reason he isn't in the Top 16 - the reason is his ZvP, which is just straight up horrible at times. Dear: Arrived in premier league too late, I don't think it would have been different if he played in another region Symbol: REALLY bad results lately. In the current form, almost every player in the finals is stronger, imo.
If you take the current form, I think Dear and Life would have been great if they qualified, but they both struggled too hard earlier this year, so they don't deserve to be there :-P
Rain was all but guaranteed to go to Blizzcon if he could beat Soulkey in the QF of KR S3, and even after he lost, he would almost certainly have gone if he won the placement matches, even if he won 0 games during S3 finals (even the extra 500 points from finishing last would have put him ahead of both Revival and NaNiwa). He dropped the ball.
I agree with Swisslink on everyone else.
Keep in mind Dear can still make it if he gets to semifinals of S3 finals.
On October 23 2013 02:53 Kamu wrote: This will be a sick tournament, but I'm still sad, that these are not the best players by no means due to the wcs season. I would prefer Rain, Flash, Parting, Dear and Symbol instead of Revival, duckdeok, alive, maru and naniwa, who made it only due to weaker competition in europe and america.
Even though i agree that Rain is missing, i dare say that neither Parting, Flash, Symbol or Dear deserves a spot anymore than those who actually have one.
Parting is very inconsistent and does often times rely heavily on build orders (soul-train for instance). While Symbol is indeed a good player, his score is so low that while he might have had a better score in NA, he would most likely not have made top 16 regardless of his region. For Dear regions didn't even matter since he didn't even play in Premier until season 3. And please don't say that Flash would have made it had he been in EU or NA. Had it not been for his legacy from BW Flash would be a nobody in SC2. When you consisently lose players foreigners and low-tier Koreans i see no reason why you would deserve a spot more than Naniwa for instance.
Also i really don't understand why people still consider Korea to be the strongest region past ro16. People such as Taeja, Hero, Polt, Jaedong and Hyun is every bit as strong as most of the guy in WCS Korea.
Korea is the hardest region on all stages though probably.
I don't really think so. In S2 Finals WCS NA had 4 people in ro8 where Korea had 3. In the same tournament neither Maru nor Innovation made it out of their group, in spite of being sole Korean against people from NA and EU. Korea might be the strongest overall, but when it comes to the people who are actual contenders for Global Finals i don't think that Korea is notably harder than NA.
On October 23 2013 02:53 Kamu wrote: This will be a sick tournament, but I'm still sad, that these are not the best players by no means due to the wcs season. I would prefer Rain, Flash, Parting, Dear and Symbol instead of Revival, duckdeok, alive, maru and naniwa, who made it only due to weaker competition in europe and america.
Even though i agree that Rain is missing, i dare say that neither Parting, Flash, Symbol or Dear deserves a spot anymore than those who actually have one.
Parting is very inconsistent and does often times rely heavily on build orders (soul-train for instance). While Symbol is indeed a good player, his score is so low that while he might have had a better score in NA, he would most likely not have made top 16 regardless of his region. For Dear regions didn't even matter since he didn't even play in Premier until season 3. And please don't say that Flash would have made it had he been in EU or NA. Had it not been for his legacy from BW Flash would be a nobody in SC2. When you consisently lose players foreigners and low-tier Koreans i see no reason why you would deserve a spot more than Naniwa for instance.
Also i really don't understand why people still consider Korea to be the strongest region past ro16. People such as Taeja, Hero, Polt, Jaedong and Hyun is every bit as strong as most of the guy in WCS Korea.
Korea is the hardest region on all stages though probably.
I don't really think so. In S2 Finals WCS NA had 4 people in ro8 where Korea had 3. In the same tournament neither Maru nor Innovation made it out of their group, in spite of being sole Korean against people from NA and EU. Korea might be the strongest overall, but when it comes to the people who are actual contenders for Global Finals i don't think that Korea is notably harder than NA.
You can't really compare the tournaments. In Korea, for every match up, you have time to prepare for your opponents. In NA/EU, the RO8 onward is a marathon tournament. You have less than a day to prepare for your opponent. The time between semi and finals is less than an hour for players in NA/EU compared to one/two week(s) in Korea.
Highly nonideal to decide who is the best opponent when you cannot study their games thoroughly.
It's the reason why most people think the season finals are not as prestigious because the format is so different from Korea's. I suppose it would be hard to actually plan and allot time between matches for season finals which is understandable, but there should at least be some consistency between all the regions.
Playing marathon tournaments is very different than having time between matches. And if you don't have much experience between the two, you aren't going to get good results.
On October 22 2013 20:06 Arno wrote: Seems to me that NaNiwa is not going to make it. First of all only two of Oz/soO/Dear needs to get 1000 pts (8th place or better) at the Season Finals. (Less likely but not impossible(?): Vortix 1500, Byul/Trap/Genius/Hack 2000 pts.) If that happens both Naniwa and Revival are out.
I think Revival gets (atleast?) 25 more pts in CL (when are those games played btw???) 25 puts him equal to Naniwa and they could play that BO5 offline at Blizzcon, IF only one of the aforementioned "Season Finals"-players get the points they need.
No, not looking good for the swede imho.
Not true actually. They need to score 1500 points, they already have the points for being in the ro16 (500 points) added to their totals. So Oz/soO/Dear need 4th or better, Vortix need to make it to the finals and I believe Byul/Trap/Genius/Hack have to win it.
Ah! I didn't notice that the minmum points they will get is already added to their total! That goes for Revival too then, so he can get maximum 3200 pts. Looks a bit better for Naniwa that. Thanks for clearing that up for me!
On October 23 2013 02:53 Kamu wrote: This will be a sick tournament, but I'm still sad, that these are not the best players by no means due to the wcs season. I would prefer Rain, Flash, Parting, Dear and Symbol instead of Revival, duckdeok, alive, maru and naniwa, who made it only due to weaker competition in europe and america.
Even though i agree that Rain is missing, i dare say that neither Parting, Flash, Symbol or Dear deserves a spot anymore than those who actually have one.
Parting is very inconsistent and does often times rely heavily on build orders (soul-train for instance). While Symbol is indeed a good player, his score is so low that while he might have had a better score in NA, he would most likely not have made top 16 regardless of his region. For Dear regions didn't even matter since he didn't even play in Premier until season 3. And please don't say that Flash would have made it had he been in EU or NA. Had it not been for his legacy from BW Flash would be a nobody in SC2. When you consisently lose players foreigners and low-tier Koreans i see no reason why you would deserve a spot more than Naniwa for instance.
Also i really don't understand why people still consider Korea to be the strongest region past ro16. People such as Taeja, Hero, Polt, Jaedong and Hyun is every bit as strong as most of the guy in WCS Korea.
Korea is the hardest region on all stages though probably.
I don't really think so. In S2 Finals WCS NA had 4 people in ro8 where Korea had 3. In the same tournament neither Maru nor Innovation made it out of their group, in spite of being sole Korean against people from NA and EU. Korea might be the strongest overall, but when it comes to the people who are actual contenders for Global Finals i don't think that Korea is notably harder than NA.
You can't really compare the tournaments. In Korea, for every match up, you have time to prepare for your opponents. In NA/EU, the RO8 onward is a marathon tournament. You have less than a day to prepare for your opponent. The time between semi and finals is less than an hour for players in NA/EU compared to one/two week(s) in Korea.
Highly nonideal to decide who is the best opponent when you cannot study their games thoroughly.
It's the reason why most people think the season finals are not as prestigious because the format is so different from Korea's. I suppose it would be hard to actually plan and allot time between matches for season finals which is understandable, but there should at least be some consistency between all the regions.
Playing marathon tournaments is very different than having time between matches. And if you don't have much experience between the two, you aren't going to get good results.
It's certainly true that you have less time to prepare in NA/EU but that only applies to the SF and the Finals. You have time to prepare for the RO8. And I think you can debate whether the "truer" test of a player is to have time to prepare or not to. They certainly reward different preparation methods and mindsets, but I can't say a player who does his best in situations when he has lots of time to prepare is necessarily a "better" player than one who does his best picking strategies on the fly in a "marathon" tournament.
On October 23 2013 02:53 Kamu wrote: This will be a sick tournament, but I'm still sad, that these are not the best players by no means due to the wcs season. I would prefer Rain, Flash, Parting, Dear and Symbol instead of Revival, duckdeok, alive, maru and naniwa, who made it only due to weaker competition in europe and america.
Even though i agree that Rain is missing, i dare say that neither Parting, Flash, Symbol or Dear deserves a spot anymore than those who actually have one.
Parting is very inconsistent and does often times rely heavily on build orders (soul-train for instance). While Symbol is indeed a good player, his score is so low that while he might have had a better score in NA, he would most likely not have made top 16 regardless of his region. For Dear regions didn't even matter since he didn't even play in Premier until season 3. And please don't say that Flash would have made it had he been in EU or NA. Had it not been for his legacy from BW Flash would be a nobody in SC2. When you consisently lose players foreigners and low-tier Koreans i see no reason why you would deserve a spot more than Naniwa for instance.
Also i really don't understand why people still consider Korea to be the strongest region past ro16. People such as Taeja, Hero, Polt, Jaedong and Hyun is every bit as strong as most of the guy in WCS Korea.
Korea is the hardest region on all stages though probably.
I don't really think so. In S2 Finals WCS NA had 4 people in ro8 where Korea had 3. In the same tournament neither Maru nor Innovation made it out of their group, in spite of being sole Korean against people from NA and EU. Korea might be the strongest overall, but when it comes to the people who are actual contenders for Global Finals i don't think that Korea is notably harder than NA.
You can't really compare the tournaments. In Korea, for every match up, you have time to prepare for your opponents. In NA/EU, the RO8 onward is a marathon tournament. You have less than a day to prepare for your opponent. The time between semi and finals is less than an hour for players in NA/EU compared to one/two week(s) in Korea.
Highly nonideal to decide who is the best opponent when you cannot study their games thoroughly.
It's the reason why most people think the season finals are not as prestigious because the format is so different from Korea's. I suppose it would be hard to actually plan and allot time between matches for season finals which is understandable, but there should at least be some consistency between all the regions.
Playing marathon tournaments is very different than having time between matches. And if you don't have much experience between the two, you aren't going to get good results.
It's certainly true that you have less time to prepare in NA/EU but that only applies to the SF and the Finals. You have time to prepare for the RO8. And I think you can debate whether the "truer" test of a player is to have time to prepare or not to. They certainly reward different preparation methods and mindsets, but I can't say a player who does his best in situations when he has lots of time to prepare is necessarily a "better" player than one who does his best picking strategies on the fly in a "marathon" tournament.
This.
Marathon tournaments often reward people with strong mechanics and game sense, where as preparation tournaments reward people who can come up with strong build orders.
On October 23 2013 02:53 Kamu wrote: This will be a sick tournament, but I'm still sad, that these are not the best players by no means due to the wcs season. I would prefer Rain, Flash, Parting, Dear and Symbol instead of Revival, duckdeok, alive, maru and naniwa, who made it only due to weaker competition in europe and america.
Even though i agree that Rain is missing, i dare say that neither Parting, Flash, Symbol or Dear deserves a spot anymore than those who actually have one.
Parting is very inconsistent and does often times rely heavily on build orders (soul-train for instance). While Symbol is indeed a good player, his score is so low that while he might have had a better score in NA, he would most likely not have made top 16 regardless of his region. For Dear regions didn't even matter since he didn't even play in Premier until season 3. And please don't say that Flash would have made it had he been in EU or NA. Had it not been for his legacy from BW Flash would be a nobody in SC2. When you consisently lose players foreigners and low-tier Koreans i see no reason why you would deserve a spot more than Naniwa for instance.
Also i really don't understand why people still consider Korea to be the strongest region past ro16. People such as Taeja, Hero, Polt, Jaedong and Hyun is every bit as strong as most of the guy in WCS Korea.
Korea is the hardest region on all stages though probably.
I don't really think so. In S2 Finals WCS NA had 4 people in ro8 where Korea had 3. In the same tournament neither Maru nor Innovation made it out of their group, in spite of being sole Korean against people from NA and EU. Korea might be the strongest overall, but when it comes to the people who are actual contenders for Global Finals i don't think that Korea is notably harder than NA.
You can't really compare the tournaments. In Korea, for every match up, you have time to prepare for your opponents. In NA/EU, the RO8 onward is a marathon tournament. You have less than a day to prepare for your opponent. The time between semi and finals is less than an hour for players in NA/EU compared to one/two week(s) in Korea.
Highly nonideal to decide who is the best opponent when you cannot study their games thoroughly.
It's the reason why most people think the season finals are not as prestigious because the format is so different from Korea's. I suppose it would be hard to actually plan and allot time between matches for season finals which is understandable, but there should at least be some consistency between all the regions.
Playing marathon tournaments is very different than having time between matches. And if you don't have much experience between the two, you aren't going to get good results.
It's certainly true that you have less time to prepare in NA/EU but that only applies to the SF and the Finals. You have time to prepare for the RO8. And I think you can debate whether the "truer" test of a player is to have time to prepare or not to. They certainly reward different preparation methods and mindsets, but I can't say a player who does his best in situations when he has lots of time to prepare is necessarily a "better" player than one who does his best picking strategies on the fly in a "marathon" tournament.
This.
Marathon tournaments often reward people with strong mechanics and game sense, where as preparation tournaments reward people who can come up with strong build orders.
marathon tournament just rewards those who are able to do the same build over and over again without being hard countered. or who find something good vs the current meta.
On October 23 2013 02:53 Kamu wrote: This will be a sick tournament, but I'm still sad, that these are not the best players by no means due to the wcs season. I would prefer Rain, Flash, Parting, Dear and Symbol instead of Revival, duckdeok, alive, maru and naniwa, who made it only due to weaker competition in europe and america.
Even though i agree that Rain is missing, i dare say that neither Parting, Flash, Symbol or Dear deserves a spot anymore than those who actually have one.
Parting is very inconsistent and does often times rely heavily on build orders (soul-train for instance). While Symbol is indeed a good player, his score is so low that while he might have had a better score in NA, he would most likely not have made top 16 regardless of his region. For Dear regions didn't even matter since he didn't even play in Premier until season 3. And please don't say that Flash would have made it had he been in EU or NA. Had it not been for his legacy from BW Flash would be a nobody in SC2. When you consisently lose players foreigners and low-tier Koreans i see no reason why you would deserve a spot more than Naniwa for instance.
Also i really don't understand why people still consider Korea to be the strongest region past ro16. People such as Taeja, Hero, Polt, Jaedong and Hyun is every bit as strong as most of the guy in WCS Korea.
Korea is the hardest region on all stages though probably.
I don't really think so. In S2 Finals WCS NA had 4 people in ro8 where Korea had 3. In the same tournament neither Maru nor Innovation made it out of their group, in spite of being sole Korean against people from NA and EU. Korea might be the strongest overall, but when it comes to the people who are actual contenders for Global Finals i don't think that Korea is notably harder than NA.
You can't really compare the tournaments. In Korea, for every match up, you have time to prepare for your opponents. In NA/EU, the RO8 onward is a marathon tournament. You have less than a day to prepare for your opponent. The time between semi and finals is less than an hour for players in NA/EU compared to one/two week(s) in Korea.
Highly nonideal to decide who is the best opponent when you cannot study their games thoroughly.
It's the reason why most people think the season finals are not as prestigious because the format is so different from Korea's. I suppose it would be hard to actually plan and allot time between matches for season finals which is understandable, but there should at least be some consistency between all the regions.
Playing marathon tournaments is very different than having time between matches. And if you don't have much experience between the two, you aren't going to get good results.
It's certainly true that you have less time to prepare in NA/EU but that only applies to the SF and the Finals. You have time to prepare for the RO8. And I think you can debate whether the "truer" test of a player is to have time to prepare or not to. They certainly reward different preparation methods and mindsets, but I can't say a player who does his best in situations when he has lots of time to prepare is necessarily a "better" player than one who does his best picking strategies on the fly in a "marathon" tournament.
This.
Marathon tournaments often reward people with strong mechanics and game sense, where as preparation tournaments reward people who can come up with strong build orders.
marathon tournament just rewards those who are able to do the same build over and over again without being hard countered. or who find something good vs the current meta.
marathon tournaments reward players who are solid and dont need the research and preparation to win vs their opponents. I think these tournaments show more of "the skill" of a player than gsl does for example.
I'm fine, when you say Symbol doesn't deserve a spot in the top 16 of the world. But Flash ... you guys say, he hasn't achieved anything, but not only was he the mvp of proleague, but if you look at his code S groups... he was always in the group of death, losing to innovation, parting, bomber and maru, but for example beating soulkey twice and maru once in the Ro32 in Season 1 and Season 2. If he had played in europe or america, he would have definitly a spot in the top 16. Same is definitly true for Parting, Life and Rain.
There is so much at stake here and it's the biggest event of the year for SC2. Personally I think it should be best of 7's through out the whole tournament. It's a little much but why not? Plenty of games for crazy comebacks and different strategies.
On October 29 2013 01:17 Incubus1993 wrote: There is so much at stake here and it's the biggest event of the year for SC2. Personally I think it should be best of 7's through out the whole tournament. It's a little much but why not? Plenty of games for crazy comebacks and different strategies.
If Blizzcon was able to accommodate Bo7s all the way through, it would be able to accommodate a better format than single elimination D:
EPT
