EPTOn October 14 2013 03:41 Pr0wler wrote:
Nope. They are building comps to counter the Assassin mid meta. Same with xPeke, Alexich etc. etc. The current meta suits Faker really well and I'm really curious to see how will he do when Riot bring the nerf hammer. Will he do well on more conventional mid champs ? We have to wait and see. Also big part of Faker's success is Bengi who is always there to win him the lane or to save his ass.
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On October 14 2013 03:25 wei2coolman wrote:
Other than the fact that every team in worlds built team comps meant to counter Faker, especially them trying to bait him to assassins. His real strength now is his ability to draw jungle pressure, allowing impact and piglet easy lanes. Also his team fight threat always makes him draw extreme aggro from enemies, letting piglet go wild on the enemy team without drawing aggro. He doesn't even play position one for his team, so he's not being funneled gold for him to do what he does.
When there are players like Cool, who say they got schooled by Faker, you know Faker is the best.
On October 14 2013 03:15 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Oh best player not just best mid, that just got even funnier now^^ Why would anyone say that? Cause he plays on the best team right now? You have literlly nothing to back your bias up, only the stats of his success with sktt1.
On October 14 2013 03:08 wei2coolman wrote:
Are you fucking kidding me? I don't think there's a single LoL pro player that doesn't think Faker is the best player at the game at this time.
On October 14 2013 02:38 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Does he really? Or did you just take that out of nowhere.. I dont say faker isnt good, but he isnt the indisputable best midlaner in the world.. He is on the best team in the world, ofc he looks great most of the time.
On October 14 2013 02:12 Thinasy wrote:
Yes having the biggest champion pool out of any midlaner in the world and also winning mid 90% of the time, definitely overhyped.
On October 14 2013 01:55 The_Red_Viper wrote:
faker is overhyped as fuck though..
On October 14 2013 01:48 wei2coolman wrote:
Discus is just tossing a disc as far as possible, it's an olympic sport.
complexity has nothing to do with competitiveness, so long as it's obvious there are differences in skills that are observable.
if LoL was so easy to play, every single top tier pro would be as good as Faker.
Hint hint* theres only one Faker.
On October 13 2013 23:16 Velouria wrote:
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So playing Tee Ball is just as hard and respectable as playing Major League Baseball?
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 13 2013 10:28 Redox wrote:
At this point it is getting really confusing why seemingly intelligent people are not able to grasp this simple concept.
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On October 13 2013 09:54 Rostam wrote:
It's not logical at all. We're talking about a multiplayer game here. The objective of the game is to win, therefore the difficulty of the game must be defined by how well your opponent plays. If you try to separate those two concepts then you've just created a definition of game difficulty that is entirely worthless.
On October 13 2013 09:38 DPK wrote:
You should read my post again since some evidences are there. Everything is more demanding in a RTS and the skillset needed is more hard to master, people who say otherwise just don't understand both games mechanics and how certain mechanics are more demanding than others. Games, competitive or not, can be easier or harder. Just look at card games for example, don't tell me you think that hearthstone is harder to play or on par with MTG. Same for chess and checkers.
A game where mechanics are harder to master will be harder to play, it's just plain logic. I could give you a long list as to why a moba/arts is more easy to play than an RTS but I won't bother since you guys don't seem to understand that the game difficulty is define by how hard the mechanics are to master and not by the skill of the people you play against.
On October 13 2013 09:01 Xiphos wrote:
Yeah whenever someone brings up "I'll played X amount of games/time in game A and Y amount of games/time in game B, and I have to say game A takes more skills/better than game B." without bringing up any form of evidence to compare the gameplay aspects of both games, it is mostly likely that the person is butthurt because his game A is getting shitted on and he got nothing substantial to defend it. One must avoid making bias comparison.
On October 13 2013 08:50 DonKey_ wrote:
I feel like I need to say something because there is a big enough group of people who think as you do about comparing the skill in multiplayer games.
There is no such thing as X game is easier than Y game in a competitive environment. Competitive multiplayer games games are not Super Mario; there is no static difficulty to them. The difficulty of these games ramps with the skill of the people you play against.
I mean I always thought this was an easy concept to understand, but every single thread where comparisons of LoL and SC2 or Dota2 and LoL pop up, there's always at least one guy with "but I've played both games and X game definitely takes more skill". The argument is fundamentally flawed from the beginning.
On October 13 2013 08:38 DPK wrote:
As someone who played both Sc2 and LoL from the start (not at a high level, just casual stuff) I can tell you that LoL is indeed a lot more easy to play than sc2. Sure both games have different mechanics and skillset, but 1 game is a lot more demanding than the other and it's obvious from the start when you play.
In LoL (or even moba/arts in general), the most important factor is teamwork, nothing more, nothing less. The 2nd would be knowledge of champions and team comps. You could have the best players in the world all in the same team, if they don't play well together, they will have a hard time winning. Having better mechanics won't help you at all if you can't communicate well enough in a team. Same for precision. And let's be honest here, having precision is not a skill that is hard to get as opposed to being able to macro well or being fast in a RTS. The skillset required to play a moba/arts is a lot more easy to get than the ones in a RTS. Also, it's a lot more forgiving to make mistakes in LoL/Dota than it is in a RTS, IMHO. Sure sometimes the mistake will cost you the game in a moba/arts but a lot less often than an RTS.
I wanna be clear that I'm not bashing LoL/Dota here, I like both games, been playing LoL on and off before it became popular (since the 1st day of closed beta) and just started to watch some dota2 since TI3. It just baffles me that some people actually think that moba/arts are as hard to play than a RTS when in fact, it's not.
On October 13 2013 02:24 JustPassingBy wrote:
Indeed, people who claim that LoL is easier are just jumping to conclusions because they are watching a game that they are not used to watch or play. Both rts and moba are mechanically taxing, but in different ways.
In rts, everything is about the speed. Each of your clicks might not be very precise, but that does not matter as long as you have the necessary speed to make up for it. You lost one engagement due to poor micro? Who cares, when you are harassing at three other locations because you have the speed to cycle through all of your hitsquads and give them rough orders.
In moba, everything is about precision. All the speed in the world does not matter, if you do not manage to place the clicks at the exact location where it matters, at the exact time when it matters. What does it matter that you are able to control two seperate groups of units? If your opponent is mechanically superior to you and last kills every of your mob while denying you killing his, his team is more likely to win.
Personally, I prefer watching rts because watching a player handle three seperate engagements at the same time (in addition to macro) is much more impressive than watching a single player killing and denying every creep in front of him for 40 minutes while dodging his opponents attacks. But that is just my opinion.
Anyways, back to topic: does it make me a bad person, if I hope that MKP fails in LoL so that he returns to sc2?
Indeed, people who claim that LoL is easier are just jumping to conclusions because they are watching a game that they are not used to watch or play. Both rts and moba are mechanically taxing, but in different ways.
In rts, everything is about the speed. Each of your clicks might not be very precise, but that does not matter as long as you have the necessary speed to make up for it. You lost one engagement due to poor micro? Who cares, when you are harassing at three other locations because you have the speed to cycle through all of your hitsquads and give them rough orders.
In moba, everything is about precision. All the speed in the world does not matter, if you do not manage to place the clicks at the exact location where it matters, at the exact time when it matters. What does it matter that you are able to control two seperate groups of units? If your opponent is mechanically superior to you and last kills every of your mob while denying you killing his, his team is more likely to win.
Personally, I prefer watching rts because watching a player handle three seperate engagements at the same time (in addition to macro) is much more impressive than watching a single player killing and denying every creep in front of him for 40 minutes while dodging his opponents attacks. But that is just my opinion.
Anyways, back to topic: does it make me a bad person, if I hope that MKP fails in LoL so that he returns to sc2?
As someone who played both Sc2 and LoL from the start (not at a high level, just casual stuff) I can tell you that LoL is indeed a lot more easy to play than sc2. Sure both games have different mechanics and skillset, but 1 game is a lot more demanding than the other and it's obvious from the start when you play.
In LoL (or even moba/arts in general), the most important factor is teamwork, nothing more, nothing less. The 2nd would be knowledge of champions and team comps. You could have the best players in the world all in the same team, if they don't play well together, they will have a hard time winning. Having better mechanics won't help you at all if you can't communicate well enough in a team. Same for precision. And let's be honest here, having precision is not a skill that is hard to get as opposed to being able to macro well or being fast in a RTS. The skillset required to play a moba/arts is a lot more easy to get than the ones in a RTS. Also, it's a lot more forgiving to make mistakes in LoL/Dota than it is in a RTS, IMHO. Sure sometimes the mistake will cost you the game in a moba/arts but a lot less often than an RTS.
I wanna be clear that I'm not bashing LoL/Dota here, I like both games, been playing LoL on and off before it became popular (since the 1st day of closed beta) and just started to watch some dota2 since TI3. It just baffles me that some people actually think that moba/arts are as hard to play than a RTS when in fact, it's not.
I feel like I need to say something because there is a big enough group of people who think as you do about comparing the skill in multiplayer games.
There is no such thing as X game is easier than Y game in a competitive environment. Competitive multiplayer games games are not Super Mario; there is no static difficulty to them. The difficulty of these games ramps with the skill of the people you play against.
I mean I always thought this was an easy concept to understand, but every single thread where comparisons of LoL and SC2 or Dota2 and LoL pop up, there's always at least one guy with "but I've played both games and X game definitely takes more skill". The argument is fundamentally flawed from the beginning.
Yeah whenever someone brings up "I'll played X amount of games/time in game A and Y amount of games/time in game B, and I have to say game A takes more skills/better than game B." without bringing up any form of evidence to compare the gameplay aspects of both games, it is mostly likely that the person is butthurt because his game A is getting shitted on and he got nothing substantial to defend it. One must avoid making bias comparison.
You should read my post again since some evidences are there. Everything is more demanding in a RTS and the skillset needed is more hard to master, people who say otherwise just don't understand both games mechanics and how certain mechanics are more demanding than others. Games, competitive or not, can be easier or harder. Just look at card games for example, don't tell me you think that hearthstone is harder to play or on par with MTG. Same for chess and checkers.
A game where mechanics are harder to master will be harder to play, it's just plain logic. I could give you a long list as to why a moba/arts is more easy to play than an RTS but I won't bother since you guys don't seem to understand that the game difficulty is define by how hard the mechanics are to master and not by the skill of the people you play against.
It's not logical at all. We're talking about a multiplayer game here. The objective of the game is to win, therefore the difficulty of the game must be defined by how well your opponent plays. If you try to separate those two concepts then you've just created a definition of game difficulty that is entirely worthless.
At this point it is getting really confusing why seemingly intelligent people are not able to grasp this simple concept.
So playing Tee Ball is just as hard and respectable as playing Major League Baseball?
Discus is just tossing a disc as far as possible, it's an olympic sport.
complexity has nothing to do with competitiveness, so long as it's obvious there are differences in skills that are observable.
if LoL was so easy to play, every single top tier pro would be as good as Faker.
Hint hint* theres only one Faker.
faker is overhyped as fuck though..
Yes having the biggest champion pool out of any midlaner in the world and also winning mid 90% of the time, definitely overhyped.
Does he really? Or did you just take that out of nowhere.. I dont say faker isnt good, but he isnt the indisputable best midlaner in the world.. He is on the best team in the world, ofc he looks great most of the time.
Are you fucking kidding me? I don't think there's a single LoL pro player that doesn't think Faker is the best player at the game at this time.
Oh best player not just best mid, that just got even funnier now^^ Why would anyone say that? Cause he plays on the best team right now? You have literlly nothing to back your bias up, only the stats of his success with sktt1.
Other than the fact that every team in worlds built team comps meant to counter Faker, especially them trying to bait him to assassins. His real strength now is his ability to draw jungle pressure, allowing impact and piglet easy lanes. Also his team fight threat always makes him draw extreme aggro from enemies, letting piglet go wild on the enemy team without drawing aggro. He doesn't even play position one for his team, so he's not being funneled gold for him to do what he does.
When there are players like Cool, who say they got schooled by Faker, you know Faker is the best.
Nope. They are building comps to counter the Assassin mid meta. Same with xPeke, Alexich etc. etc. The current meta suits Faker really well and I'm really curious to see how will he do when Riot bring the nerf hammer. Will he do well on more conventional mid champs ? We have to wait and see. Also big part of Faker's success is Bengi who is always there to win him the lane or to save his ass.
This just proves you don't watch Korean LoL.
Faker's most played champion is orianna.
The most conventional mid of mids.
People think he's best on assassins, nah, he just can make more highlight reels on them, he's actually beast on farming mids.
