|
On October 03 2013 22:47 hmsrenown wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 22:34 c0ldfusion wrote:On October 03 2013 05:03 Ohforfsake wrote:On October 03 2013 02:32 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 03 2013 02:27 Pirfiktshon wrote:
The chances will be considerably higher if we actually allow them to compete in a tournament of 16 people and 4 from NA 4 From EU 4 From SEA and 4 From Kor.... They will have 0 chance if there is 0 of them right?
Edit: Ofcourse I'm referring to Blizzcon You are treating this as completely random thing. Nowadays the only reliable way to get foreigner vs korean final or foreigner vs foreigner final is to SERIOUSLY limit amount of koreans participating compared to amount of players who are capable of winning at least Bo3 against them. How many players from SEA for example(they are great guys, but i doubt they will deny it) you know that can take Bo3 off HerO on a rather regular basis? Why does this always come up when this topic comes along. And always with the wrong conclusion. Since you are from Russia I'll assume you know what skiing is and have some grasp of that sport and use an example from the sport to explain this and what can be done to counteract it (it's also a very good sport to use since their situation is simular to korea and esports). First some facts. Skiing has a international federation called FIS who sets all the rules for international competition. This organization exists solely to promote the sport. It does not seek to maximize gain short term but to promote the sport as a whole long term (this part is important especially for esport). The organization is run by previous active athlets and not corporations. Here's a link to their rules for international competition. http://www.fis-ski.com/data/document/wsc-rules-2012-e_clean-version_291012.pdfThis is a growing sport that's been around for a long time and done the mistakes. It's also a sport with a very simular problem to esports. Norways is completely dominant as a nation. If there was no region locking and no limit of participation from different countries the top 10 of a world chamionship 2014 might look like this (I know there won't be a world championship next year). 1. Norway 2. Norway 3. Norway 4. Russia 5. Norway 6. Norway 7. Sweden 8. Norway 9. Norway 10. Norway And this is the top 10 in 5 years if this result list was ever allowed: 1. Norway 2. Norway 3. Norway 4. Norway 5. Norway 6. Norway 7. Norway 8. Norway 9. Norway 10. Norway The international organization knows this and has put rules in place to limit Norway and other strong nations participation to make the competition more enjoyable to watch from people all over the world (as opposed to the result above who only norwegians would like). Because the goal of the organization is to grow the sport, not to promote Norway or norwegian athletes. So, every nation can only send 4 participants +1 slot for the reigning champion (follows the athlete not the country). So Norway usually has 5 participants, everyone else 4 or less. This gives Norway a little edge but nothing that will upset the competition too much. As a fan from Norway you can still look forward to a good championship where norwegians have a good chanse of winning. And a fan from every other country you can look forward to a championship where someone from your country _CAN_ win. Even Norway promotes these rules (and helped create them) because they realize that it's much more fun to be the champion in something people elsewhere care about as opposed to being the world champion in american football to take 1 example.Despite this Norway has been dominating pretty badly again lately and the norwegians worry that this might diminish the interest in the sport globally and damage the sport. To try and counteract this they send some of their trainers to other countries to help them build up the competition.We'll see if it's enough or more action need to be taken to level the field. This is how a professional sport works with these issues. Why is it so hard for esports to learn from them?? That is what i don't understand. Nothing we do creating these events is new except the media. When it comes to generating interest and "hype" there's over 100 years of history from other sports to learns from. Here's a actual result from the last WC (2013) to give you and idea what these rules have ment for skiing. Womens 10k cross country freestyle: 1. Norway 2. Norway 3. Russia 4. Germany 5. USA 6. Norway 7. Sweden 8. Finland 9. Norway 10. France Men 15k cross country freestyle: 1. Norway 2. Sweden 3. Norway 4. Canada 5. Norway 6. Sweden 7. Estonia 8. Switzerland 9. Germany 10. Sweden It can be done guys. Whoa, that's an awful analogy. Full disclosure: football is the only sport I follow these days. While the NFL tries to actively promote the sport overseas, I can assure the vast majority of the American public does not care whether or not it's watched internationally. Taken a step further, if the game itself is intrinsically interesting, I don't think it matters where the competition comes from. That's how I feel about SC as well. Spoken like a true American. I think neither analogy is on point because of the eSports medium, if skiing is an awful analogy, NFL is just as much.
To be clear, I'm not asserting that NFL is a good analogy for eSports - it's not.
I was actually trying to point out that it's a poor analogy for skiing (which I agree is in turn, a poor analogy for eSports.)
On its own, in eSports, the nationality of the players is irrelevant to me. What really matters is the quality of the matches - a result of the complexity and depth of the game itself.
|
I don't know why everyone is blaming WCS for the team's failure. They don't market themselves to foreign audiences and completely insulate themselves when it comes to producing a product people want.
You can't win games then expect it to rain money and sponsorships. You have to actively work as a marketing company if you want a financially successful team, something that very few teams seem to understand.
|
On October 03 2013 23:18 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 22:47 hmsrenown wrote:On October 03 2013 22:34 c0ldfusion wrote:On October 03 2013 05:03 Ohforfsake wrote:On October 03 2013 02:32 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 03 2013 02:27 Pirfiktshon wrote:
The chances will be considerably higher if we actually allow them to compete in a tournament of 16 people and 4 from NA 4 From EU 4 From SEA and 4 From Kor.... They will have 0 chance if there is 0 of them right?
Edit: Ofcourse I'm referring to Blizzcon You are treating this as completely random thing. Nowadays the only reliable way to get foreigner vs korean final or foreigner vs foreigner final is to SERIOUSLY limit amount of koreans participating compared to amount of players who are capable of winning at least Bo3 against them. How many players from SEA for example(they are great guys, but i doubt they will deny it) you know that can take Bo3 off HerO on a rather regular basis? Why does this always come up when this topic comes along. And always with the wrong conclusion. Since you are from Russia I'll assume you know what skiing is and have some grasp of that sport and use an example from the sport to explain this and what can be done to counteract it (it's also a very good sport to use since their situation is simular to korea and esports). First some facts. Skiing has a international federation called FIS who sets all the rules for international competition. This organization exists solely to promote the sport. It does not seek to maximize gain short term but to promote the sport as a whole long term (this part is important especially for esport). The organization is run by previous active athlets and not corporations. Here's a link to their rules for international competition. http://www.fis-ski.com/data/document/wsc-rules-2012-e_clean-version_291012.pdfThis is a growing sport that's been around for a long time and done the mistakes. It's also a sport with a very simular problem to esports. Norways is completely dominant as a nation. If there was no region locking and no limit of participation from different countries the top 10 of a world chamionship 2014 might look like this (I know there won't be a world championship next year). 1. Norway 2. Norway 3. Norway 4. Russia 5. Norway 6. Norway 7. Sweden 8. Norway 9. Norway 10. Norway And this is the top 10 in 5 years if this result list was ever allowed: 1. Norway 2. Norway 3. Norway 4. Norway 5. Norway 6. Norway 7. Norway 8. Norway 9. Norway 10. Norway The international organization knows this and has put rules in place to limit Norway and other strong nations participation to make the competition more enjoyable to watch from people all over the world (as opposed to the result above who only norwegians would like). Because the goal of the organization is to grow the sport, not to promote Norway or norwegian athletes. So, every nation can only send 4 participants +1 slot for the reigning champion (follows the athlete not the country). So Norway usually has 5 participants, everyone else 4 or less. This gives Norway a little edge but nothing that will upset the competition too much. As a fan from Norway you can still look forward to a good championship where norwegians have a good chanse of winning. And a fan from every other country you can look forward to a championship where someone from your country _CAN_ win. Even Norway promotes these rules (and helped create them) because they realize that it's much more fun to be the champion in something people elsewhere care about as opposed to being the world champion in american football to take 1 example.Despite this Norway has been dominating pretty badly again lately and the norwegians worry that this might diminish the interest in the sport globally and damage the sport. To try and counteract this they send some of their trainers to other countries to help them build up the competition.We'll see if it's enough or more action need to be taken to level the field. This is how a professional sport works with these issues. Why is it so hard for esports to learn from them?? That is what i don't understand. Nothing we do creating these events is new except the media. When it comes to generating interest and "hype" there's over 100 years of history from other sports to learns from. Here's a actual result from the last WC (2013) to give you and idea what these rules have ment for skiing. Womens 10k cross country freestyle: 1. Norway 2. Norway 3. Russia 4. Germany 5. USA 6. Norway 7. Sweden 8. Finland 9. Norway 10. France Men 15k cross country freestyle: 1. Norway 2. Sweden 3. Norway 4. Canada 5. Norway 6. Sweden 7. Estonia 8. Switzerland 9. Germany 10. Sweden It can be done guys. Whoa, that's an awful analogy. Full disclosure: football is the only sport I follow these days. While the NFL tries to actively promote the sport overseas, I can assure the vast majority of the American public does not care whether or not it's watched internationally. Taken a step further, if the game itself is intrinsically interesting, I don't think it matters where the competition comes from. That's how I feel about SC as well. Spoken like a true American. I think neither analogy is on point because of the eSports medium, if skiing is an awful analogy, NFL is just as much. To be clear, I'm not asserting that NFL is a good analogy for eSports - it's not. I was actually trying to point out that it's a poor analogy for skiing (which I agree is in turn, a poor analogy for eSports.) On its own, in eSports, the nationality of the players is irrelevant to me. What really matters is the quality of the matches - a result of the complexity and depth of the game itself.
I actually accept people with different ethnicity and beliefs.
The only thing I care about is if the person has the skills and the dedication to strive for perfection.
For all the progressive ideology displayed by TL posters, majority seem to be bunch of Xenophobes in practice.
|
If that is true, how many real sports do you support where s. Korea is bad in?
|
On October 04 2013 00:13 Crytash wrote:
If that is true, how many real sports do you support where s. Korea is bad in?
I'm a bigger supporter of the NFL than any eSports. Bought 2 season tickets in college and went to 2 NFL games.
They are truly top physical/athletic specimens on the planet.
I like hockey, there isn't any Koreans in the NHL.
Went to numerous baseball games, there are like 5 Korean players in the MLB.
Play basketball for vascular exercise, there aren't any Korean players in the NBA.
Golf occasionally, Koreans aren't dominating in the PGA only the LPGA.
Love UFC, only Benson Henderson is half Korean.
I love sports because of their show of skill and talent with a whiff of violence.
|
SC2 is proof you can't just create an Esport, even when you have a beast like BW to build and expand from. Blizz is def. not going through it's best years, constantly on the decline.
|
On October 02 2013 19:32 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 19:29 Plansix wrote:
To many teams, not enough money to go around. WCS or no, there are just to many Korean teams for the scene to support right now. This is obviously Blizzard's fault for not having infinite money. IMO, the biggest problem was that there weren't enough small tournaments outside of GSL and more recently OSL either for teams to make a quick buck or to attract new blood. The Korean scene was doomed to stagnate or crumble form the start.
Blizzard may not have infinite money but they are definitely not lacking, they are one of the head company's in this billion dollar industry. If they cared enough for the korean scene, they could most definitely help their korean partners to market, promote and sponsor in korea.
edit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Activision_Blizzard
|
Bring back the old high production value and the prestigiouis ness of the old GSL Code S please :D I loved watching that tournament
|
On October 04 2013 01:16 TaishiCi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 00:13 Crytash wrote:
If that is true, how many real sports do you support where s. Korea is bad in? I'm a bigger supporter of the NFL than any eSports. Bought 2 season tickets in college and went to 2 NFL games. They are truly top physical/athletic specimens on the planet. I like hockey, there isn't any Koreans in the NHL. Went to numerous baseball games, there are like 5 Korean players in the MLB. Play basketball for vascular exercise, there aren't any Korean players in the NBA. Golf occasionally, Koreans aren't dominating in the PGA only the LPGA. Love UFC, only Benson Henderson is half Korean. I love sports because of their show of skill and talent with a whiff of violence.
Well, if you live in the USA, those dominant sports don't count as well, right? :D You can easily identify with them, becouse you can actually visit the stadions.
|
On October 04 2013 02:20 Crytash wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 01:16 TaishiCi wrote:On October 04 2013 00:13 Crytash wrote:
If that is true, how many real sports do you support where s. Korea is bad in? I'm a bigger supporter of the NFL than any eSports. Bought 2 season tickets in college and went to 2 NFL games. They are truly top physical/athletic specimens on the planet. I like hockey, there isn't any Koreans in the NHL. Went to numerous baseball games, there are like 5 Korean players in the MLB. Play basketball for vascular exercise, there aren't any Korean players in the NBA. Golf occasionally, Koreans aren't dominating in the PGA only the LPGA. Love UFC, only Benson Henderson is half Korean. I love sports because of their show of skill and talent with a whiff of violence. Well, if you live in the USA, those dominant sports don't count as well, right? :D You can easily identify with them, becouse you can actually visit the stadions.
You are comparing two totally different skills. E-Sports generally targets strategical thinking mixed with really quick reflexes and quick thinking on the spot. Sure a e-sports pro-gamer can't shoot a basket like Kobe, tackle a NFL player, strike out a batter in the MLB, take Tiger Woods spot as #1 PGA ranking, but i would love to see anybody from MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL, PGA, UFC try to beat Flash in a best of 100 in a Brood War game.
|
On October 04 2013 01:16 TaishiCi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 00:13 Crytash wrote:
If that is true, how many real sports do you support where s. Korea is bad in? I'm a bigger supporter of the NFL than any eSports. Bought 2 season tickets in college and went to 2 NFL games. They are truly top physical/athletic specimens on the planet. I like hockey, there isn't any Koreans in the NHL. Went to numerous baseball games, there are like 5 Korean players in the MLB. Play basketball for vascular exercise, there aren't any Korean players in the NBA. Golf occasionally, Koreans aren't dominating in the PGA only the LPGA. Love UFC, only Benson Henderson is half Korean. I love sports because of their show of skill and talent with a whiff of violence.
Korean Zombie anyone?
|
On October 03 2013 23:18 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 22:47 hmsrenown wrote:On October 03 2013 22:34 c0ldfusion wrote:On October 03 2013 05:03 Ohforfsake wrote:On October 03 2013 02:32 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 03 2013 02:27 Pirfiktshon wrote:
The chances will be considerably higher if we actually allow them to compete in a tournament of 16 people and 4 from NA 4 From EU 4 From SEA and 4 From Kor.... They will have 0 chance if there is 0 of them right?
Edit: Ofcourse I'm referring to Blizzcon You are treating this as completely random thing. Nowadays the only reliable way to get foreigner vs korean final or foreigner vs foreigner final is to SERIOUSLY limit amount of koreans participating compared to amount of players who are capable of winning at least Bo3 against them. How many players from SEA for example(they are great guys, but i doubt they will deny it) you know that can take Bo3 off HerO on a rather regular basis? Why does this always come up when this topic comes along. And always with the wrong conclusion. Since you are from Russia I'll assume you know what skiing is and have some grasp of that sport and use an example from the sport to explain this and what can be done to counteract it (it's also a very good sport to use since their situation is simular to korea and esports). First some facts. Skiing has a international federation called FIS who sets all the rules for international competition. This organization exists solely to promote the sport. It does not seek to maximize gain short term but to promote the sport as a whole long term (this part is important especially for esport). The organization is run by previous active athlets and not corporations. Here's a link to their rules for international competition. http://www.fis-ski.com/data/document/wsc-rules-2012-e_clean-version_291012.pdfThis is a growing sport that's been around for a long time and done the mistakes. It's also a sport with a very simular problem to esports. Norways is completely dominant as a nation. If there was no region locking and no limit of participation from different countries the top 10 of a world chamionship 2014 might look like this (I know there won't be a world championship next year). 1. Norway 2. Norway 3. Norway 4. Russia 5. Norway 6. Norway 7. Sweden 8. Norway 9. Norway 10. Norway And this is the top 10 in 5 years if this result list was ever allowed: 1. Norway 2. Norway 3. Norway 4. Norway 5. Norway 6. Norway 7. Norway 8. Norway 9. Norway 10. Norway The international organization knows this and has put rules in place to limit Norway and other strong nations participation to make the competition more enjoyable to watch from people all over the world (as opposed to the result above who only norwegians would like). Because the goal of the organization is to grow the sport, not to promote Norway or norwegian athletes. So, every nation can only send 4 participants +1 slot for the reigning champion (follows the athlete not the country). So Norway usually has 5 participants, everyone else 4 or less. This gives Norway a little edge but nothing that will upset the competition too much. As a fan from Norway you can still look forward to a good championship where norwegians have a good chanse of winning. And a fan from every other country you can look forward to a championship where someone from your country _CAN_ win. Even Norway promotes these rules (and helped create them) because they realize that it's much more fun to be the champion in something people elsewhere care about as opposed to being the world champion in american football to take 1 example.Despite this Norway has been dominating pretty badly again lately and the norwegians worry that this might diminish the interest in the sport globally and damage the sport. To try and counteract this they send some of their trainers to other countries to help them build up the competition.We'll see if it's enough or more action need to be taken to level the field. This is how a professional sport works with these issues. Why is it so hard for esports to learn from them?? That is what i don't understand. Nothing we do creating these events is new except the media. When it comes to generating interest and "hype" there's over 100 years of history from other sports to learns from. Here's a actual result from the last WC (2013) to give you and idea what these rules have ment for skiing. Womens 10k cross country freestyle: 1. Norway 2. Norway 3. Russia 4. Germany 5. USA 6. Norway 7. Sweden 8. Finland 9. Norway 10. France Men 15k cross country freestyle: 1. Norway 2. Sweden 3. Norway 4. Canada 5. Norway 6. Sweden 7. Estonia 8. Switzerland 9. Germany 10. Sweden It can be done guys. Whoa, that's an awful analogy. Full disclosure: football is the only sport I follow these days. While the NFL tries to actively promote the sport overseas, I can assure the vast majority of the American public does not care whether or not it's watched internationally. Taken a step further, if the game itself is intrinsically interesting, I don't think it matters where the competition comes from. That's how I feel about SC as well. Spoken like a true American. I think neither analogy is on point because of the eSports medium, if skiing is an awful analogy, NFL is just as much. To be clear, I'm not asserting that NFL is a good analogy for eSports - it's not. I was actually trying to point out that it's a poor analogy for skiing (which I agree is in turn, a poor analogy for eSports.) On its own, in eSports, the nationality of the players is irrelevant to me. What really matters is the quality of the matches - a result of the complexity and depth of the game itself.
I don't really see how the skiing analogy is a bad one. You want to see high quality matches. In the Skiing analogy, the Norwegians are the Koreans and thus show the highest quality of competition. That's a pretty perfect analogy if you ask me, dead on.
It was a post showing that they have made rules and regulations that allow these other countries to be viable in their sport, which in turn improves the viewership of the sport in other countries. This analogy is saying "Hey, skiing was in a similar position where a ton of people do it but the competition is severely lopsided. Their rules and regulations have allowed other countries to fight for a pretty decent showing."
The problem is just that the vocal minority of the community can't get over the "I want to see good games, only the best" ideals. It's completely unreasonable and an unsustainable model. "NA players just need to get better" there's no opportunity for that to happen, I'd say that's probably a much more xenophobic mentality than the insulting accusation that those of us who want to see NA players in competition.
I don't give a single fuck if Koreans win every single tournament for the rest of SC2's existence as long as Blizzard puts in rules and regulations that allow for NA/EU/SEA/etc players to get to the point of competing. If no changes are made to even the playing field I'm going to lose a ton of interest and go back to just watching the pros I like, and I'd bet there are enough people like me to continue making a dent in the viewership. You "best games" guys have tournaments you can watch for that stuff. I don't understand why it's such this ungodly big deal when a tournament wants to cater strictly to NA pros or allow them a chance.
|
Russian Federation40186 Posts
On October 04 2013 02:42 Noobity wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 23:18 c0ldfusion wrote:On October 03 2013 22:47 hmsrenown wrote:On October 03 2013 22:34 c0ldfusion wrote:On October 03 2013 05:03 Ohforfsake wrote:On October 03 2013 02:32 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 03 2013 02:27 Pirfiktshon wrote:
The chances will be considerably higher if we actually allow them to compete in a tournament of 16 people and 4 from NA 4 From EU 4 From SEA and 4 From Kor.... They will have 0 chance if there is 0 of them right?
Edit: Ofcourse I'm referring to Blizzcon You are treating this as completely random thing. Nowadays the only reliable way to get foreigner vs korean final or foreigner vs foreigner final is to SERIOUSLY limit amount of koreans participating compared to amount of players who are capable of winning at least Bo3 against them. How many players from SEA for example(they are great guys, but i doubt they will deny it) you know that can take Bo3 off HerO on a rather regular basis? Why does this always come up when this topic comes along. And always with the wrong conclusion. Since you are from Russia I'll assume you know what skiing is and have some grasp of that sport and use an example from the sport to explain this and what can be done to counteract it (it's also a very good sport to use since their situation is simular to korea and esports). First some facts. Skiing has a international federation called FIS who sets all the rules for international competition. This organization exists solely to promote the sport. It does not seek to maximize gain short term but to promote the sport as a whole long term (this part is important especially for esport). The organization is run by previous active athlets and not corporations. Here's a link to their rules for international competition. http://www.fis-ski.com/data/document/wsc-rules-2012-e_clean-version_291012.pdfThis is a growing sport that's been around for a long time and done the mistakes. It's also a sport with a very simular problem to esports. Norways is completely dominant as a nation. If there was no region locking and no limit of participation from different countries the top 10 of a world chamionship 2014 might look like this (I know there won't be a world championship next year). 1. Norway 2. Norway 3. Norway 4. Russia 5. Norway 6. Norway 7. Sweden 8. Norway 9. Norway 10. Norway And this is the top 10 in 5 years if this result list was ever allowed: 1. Norway 2. Norway 3. Norway 4. Norway 5. Norway 6. Norway 7. Norway 8. Norway 9. Norway 10. Norway The international organization knows this and has put rules in place to limit Norway and other strong nations participation to make the competition more enjoyable to watch from people all over the world (as opposed to the result above who only norwegians would like). Because the goal of the organization is to grow the sport, not to promote Norway or norwegian athletes. So, every nation can only send 4 participants +1 slot for the reigning champion (follows the athlete not the country). So Norway usually has 5 participants, everyone else 4 or less. This gives Norway a little edge but nothing that will upset the competition too much. As a fan from Norway you can still look forward to a good championship where norwegians have a good chanse of winning. And a fan from every other country you can look forward to a championship where someone from your country _CAN_ win. Even Norway promotes these rules (and helped create them) because they realize that it's much more fun to be the champion in something people elsewhere care about as opposed to being the world champion in american football to take 1 example.Despite this Norway has been dominating pretty badly again lately and the norwegians worry that this might diminish the interest in the sport globally and damage the sport. To try and counteract this they send some of their trainers to other countries to help them build up the competition.We'll see if it's enough or more action need to be taken to level the field. This is how a professional sport works with these issues. Why is it so hard for esports to learn from them?? That is what i don't understand. Nothing we do creating these events is new except the media. When it comes to generating interest and "hype" there's over 100 years of history from other sports to learns from. Here's a actual result from the last WC (2013) to give you and idea what these rules have ment for skiing. Womens 10k cross country freestyle: 1. Norway 2. Norway 3. Russia 4. Germany 5. USA 6. Norway 7. Sweden 8. Finland 9. Norway 10. France Men 15k cross country freestyle: 1. Norway 2. Sweden 3. Norway 4. Canada 5. Norway 6. Sweden 7. Estonia 8. Switzerland 9. Germany 10. Sweden It can be done guys. Whoa, that's an awful analogy. Full disclosure: football is the only sport I follow these days. While the NFL tries to actively promote the sport overseas, I can assure the vast majority of the American public does not care whether or not it's watched internationally. Taken a step further, if the game itself is intrinsically interesting, I don't think it matters where the competition comes from. That's how I feel about SC as well. Spoken like a true American. I think neither analogy is on point because of the eSports medium, if skiing is an awful analogy, NFL is just as much. To be clear, I'm not asserting that NFL is a good analogy for eSports - it's not. I was actually trying to point out that it's a poor analogy for skiing (which I agree is in turn, a poor analogy for eSports.) On its own, in eSports, the nationality of the players is irrelevant to me. What really matters is the quality of the matches - a result of the complexity and depth of the game itself. I don't really see how the skiing analogy is a bad one. You want to see high quality matches. In the Skiing analogy, the Norwegians are the Koreans and thus show the highest quality of competition. That's a pretty perfect analogy if you ask me, dead on. It was a post showing that they have made rules and regulations that allow these other countries to be viable in their sport, which in turn improves the viewership of the sport in other countries. This analogy is saying "Hey, skiing was in a similar position where a ton of people do it but the competition is severely lopsided. Their rules and regulations have allowed other countries to fight for a pretty decent showing." The problem is just that the vocal minority of the community can't get over the "I want to see good games, only the best" ideals. It's completely unreasonable and an unsustainable model. "NA players just need to get better" there's no opportunity for that to happen, I'd say that's probably a much more xenophobic mentality than the insulting accusation that those of us who want to see NA players in competition. I don't give a single fuck if Koreans win every single tournament for the rest of SC2's existence as long as Blizzard puts in rules and regulations that allow for NA/EU/SEA/etc players to get to the point of competing. If no changes are made to even the playing field I'm going to lose a ton of interest and go back to just watching the pros I like, and I'd bet there are enough people like me to continue making a dent in the viewership. You "best games" guys have tournaments you can watch for that stuff. I don't understand why it's such this ungodly big deal when a tournament wants to cater strictly to NA pros or allow them a chance.
The problem is that 'only the best games' argument is one thing, but ridiculous oversaturation of Korean scene is another. How are you going to solve the oversaturation of Korean scene?
|
Why should we have to? The opportunity is there for them to come to NA or EU or SEA. Everyone expects foreign pros to migrate to Korea to get better, but nobody expects Korean pros to migrate elsewhere for opportunity. Give everyone the tools, let them use it how they'd like.
The specifics don't matter to me so much right now, I don't care if you make every league a little different in pay or number of players or any of that. I care that the option is there.
|
On October 03 2013 23:39 TaishiCi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 23:18 c0ldfusion wrote:On October 03 2013 22:47 hmsrenown wrote:On October 03 2013 22:34 c0ldfusion wrote:On October 03 2013 05:03 Ohforfsake wrote:On October 03 2013 02:32 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 03 2013 02:27 Pirfiktshon wrote:
The chances will be considerably higher if we actually allow them to compete in a tournament of 16 people and 4 from NA 4 From EU 4 From SEA and 4 From Kor.... They will have 0 chance if there is 0 of them right?
Edit: Ofcourse I'm referring to Blizzcon You are treating this as completely random thing. Nowadays the only reliable way to get foreigner vs korean final or foreigner vs foreigner final is to SERIOUSLY limit amount of koreans participating compared to amount of players who are capable of winning at least Bo3 against them. How many players from SEA for example(they are great guys, but i doubt they will deny it) you know that can take Bo3 off HerO on a rather regular basis? Why does this always come up when this topic comes along. And always with the wrong conclusion. Since you are from Russia I'll assume you know what skiing is and have some grasp of that sport and use an example from the sport to explain this and what can be done to counteract it (it's also a very good sport to use since their situation is simular to korea and esports). First some facts. Skiing has a international federation called FIS who sets all the rules for international competition. This organization exists solely to promote the sport. It does not seek to maximize gain short term but to promote the sport as a whole long term (this part is important especially for esport). The organization is run by previous active athlets and not corporations. Here's a link to their rules for international competition. http://www.fis-ski.com/data/document/wsc-rules-2012-e_clean-version_291012.pdfThis is a growing sport that's been around for a long time and done the mistakes. It's also a sport with a very simular problem to esports. Norways is completely dominant as a nation. If there was no region locking and no limit of participation from different countries the top 10 of a world chamionship 2014 might look like this (I know there won't be a world championship next year). 1. Norway 2. Norway 3. Norway 4. Russia 5. Norway 6. Norway 7. Sweden 8. Norway 9. Norway 10. Norway And this is the top 10 in 5 years if this result list was ever allowed: 1. Norway 2. Norway 3. Norway 4. Norway 5. Norway 6. Norway 7. Norway 8. Norway 9. Norway 10. Norway The international organization knows this and has put rules in place to limit Norway and other strong nations participation to make the competition more enjoyable to watch from people all over the world (as opposed to the result above who only norwegians would like). Because the goal of the organization is to grow the sport, not to promote Norway or norwegian athletes. So, every nation can only send 4 participants +1 slot for the reigning champion (follows the athlete not the country). So Norway usually has 5 participants, everyone else 4 or less. This gives Norway a little edge but nothing that will upset the competition too much. As a fan from Norway you can still look forward to a good championship where norwegians have a good chanse of winning. And a fan from every other country you can look forward to a championship where someone from your country _CAN_ win. Even Norway promotes these rules (and helped create them) because they realize that it's much more fun to be the champion in something people elsewhere care about as opposed to being the world champion in american football to take 1 example.Despite this Norway has been dominating pretty badly again lately and the norwegians worry that this might diminish the interest in the sport globally and damage the sport. To try and counteract this they send some of their trainers to other countries to help them build up the competition.We'll see if it's enough or more action need to be taken to level the field. This is how a professional sport works with these issues. Why is it so hard for esports to learn from them?? That is what i don't understand. Nothing we do creating these events is new except the media. When it comes to generating interest and "hype" there's over 100 years of history from other sports to learns from. Here's a actual result from the last WC (2013) to give you and idea what these rules have ment for skiing. Womens 10k cross country freestyle: 1. Norway 2. Norway 3. Russia 4. Germany 5. USA 6. Norway 7. Sweden 8. Finland 9. Norway 10. France Men 15k cross country freestyle: 1. Norway 2. Sweden 3. Norway 4. Canada 5. Norway 6. Sweden 7. Estonia 8. Switzerland 9. Germany 10. Sweden It can be done guys. Whoa, that's an awful analogy. Full disclosure: football is the only sport I follow these days. While the NFL tries to actively promote the sport overseas, I can assure the vast majority of the American public does not care whether or not it's watched internationally. Taken a step further, if the game itself is intrinsically interesting, I don't think it matters where the competition comes from. That's how I feel about SC as well. Spoken like a true American. I think neither analogy is on point because of the eSports medium, if skiing is an awful analogy, NFL is just as much. To be clear, I'm not asserting that NFL is a good analogy for eSports - it's not. I was actually trying to point out that it's a poor analogy for skiing (which I agree is in turn, a poor analogy for eSports.) On its own, in eSports, the nationality of the players is irrelevant to me. What really matters is the quality of the matches - a result of the complexity and depth of the game itself. I actually accept people with different ethnicity and beliefs. The only thing I care about is if the person has the skills and the dedication to strive for perfection. For all the progressive ideology displayed by TL posters, majority seem to be bunch of Xenophobes in practice.
So, If I care more about people from my home town than someone I have never met on the other side of the world I'm a Xenophobe? I'm gonna assume you're just joking and ignore that point.
Now if you two want to be constructive you can try and explain what the big difference is between esports and other sports. Since you say that comparing to other sports is wrong because of a big difference it must be easy to state the difference, no? (I can't come up with a single difference)
|
Canada13379 Posts
On October 03 2013 23:39 TaishiCi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 23:18 c0ldfusion wrote:On October 03 2013 22:47 hmsrenown wrote:On October 03 2013 22:34 c0ldfusion wrote:On October 03 2013 05:03 Ohforfsake wrote:On October 03 2013 02:32 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 03 2013 02:27 Pirfiktshon wrote:
The chances will be considerably higher if we actually allow them to compete in a tournament of 16 people and 4 from NA 4 From EU 4 From SEA and 4 From Kor.... They will have 0 chance if there is 0 of them right?
Edit: Ofcourse I'm referring to Blizzcon You are treating this as completely random thing. Nowadays the only reliable way to get foreigner vs korean final or foreigner vs foreigner final is to SERIOUSLY limit amount of koreans participating compared to amount of players who are capable of winning at least Bo3 against them. How many players from SEA for example(they are great guys, but i doubt they will deny it) you know that can take Bo3 off HerO on a rather regular basis? Why does this always come up when this topic comes along. And always with the wrong conclusion. Since you are from Russia I'll assume you know what skiing is and have some grasp of that sport and use an example from the sport to explain this and what can be done to counteract it (it's also a very good sport to use since their situation is simular to korea and esports). First some facts. Skiing has a international federation called FIS who sets all the rules for international competition. This organization exists solely to promote the sport. It does not seek to maximize gain short term but to promote the sport as a whole long term (this part is important especially for esport). The organization is run by previous active athlets and not corporations. Here's a link to their rules for international competition. http://www.fis-ski.com/data/document/wsc-rules-2012-e_clean-version_291012.pdfThis is a growing sport that's been around for a long time and done the mistakes. It's also a sport with a very simular problem to esports. Norways is completely dominant as a nation. If there was no region locking and no limit of participation from different countries the top 10 of a world chamionship 2014 might look like this (I know there won't be a world championship next year). 1. Norway 2. Norway 3. Norway 4. Russia 5. Norway 6. Norway 7. Sweden 8. Norway 9. Norway 10. Norway And this is the top 10 in 5 years if this result list was ever allowed: 1. Norway 2. Norway 3. Norway 4. Norway 5. Norway 6. Norway 7. Norway 8. Norway 9. Norway 10. Norway The international organization knows this and has put rules in place to limit Norway and other strong nations participation to make the competition more enjoyable to watch from people all over the world (as opposed to the result above who only norwegians would like). Because the goal of the organization is to grow the sport, not to promote Norway or norwegian athletes. So, every nation can only send 4 participants +1 slot for the reigning champion (follows the athlete not the country). So Norway usually has 5 participants, everyone else 4 or less. This gives Norway a little edge but nothing that will upset the competition too much. As a fan from Norway you can still look forward to a good championship where norwegians have a good chanse of winning. And a fan from every other country you can look forward to a championship where someone from your country _CAN_ win. Even Norway promotes these rules (and helped create them) because they realize that it's much more fun to be the champion in something people elsewhere care about as opposed to being the world champion in american football to take 1 example.Despite this Norway has been dominating pretty badly again lately and the norwegians worry that this might diminish the interest in the sport globally and damage the sport. To try and counteract this they send some of their trainers to other countries to help them build up the competition.We'll see if it's enough or more action need to be taken to level the field. This is how a professional sport works with these issues. Why is it so hard for esports to learn from them?? That is what i don't understand. Nothing we do creating these events is new except the media. When it comes to generating interest and "hype" there's over 100 years of history from other sports to learns from. Here's a actual result from the last WC (2013) to give you and idea what these rules have ment for skiing. Womens 10k cross country freestyle: 1. Norway 2. Norway 3. Russia 4. Germany 5. USA 6. Norway 7. Sweden 8. Finland 9. Norway 10. France Men 15k cross country freestyle: 1. Norway 2. Sweden 3. Norway 4. Canada 5. Norway 6. Sweden 7. Estonia 8. Switzerland 9. Germany 10. Sweden It can be done guys. Whoa, that's an awful analogy. Full disclosure: football is the only sport I follow these days. While the NFL tries to actively promote the sport overseas, I can assure the vast majority of the American public does not care whether or not it's watched internationally. Taken a step further, if the game itself is intrinsically interesting, I don't think it matters where the competition comes from. That's how I feel about SC as well. Spoken like a true American. I think neither analogy is on point because of the eSports medium, if skiing is an awful analogy, NFL is just as much. To be clear, I'm not asserting that NFL is a good analogy for eSports - it's not. I was actually trying to point out that it's a poor analogy for skiing (which I agree is in turn, a poor analogy for eSports.) On its own, in eSports, the nationality of the players is irrelevant to me. What really matters is the quality of the matches - a result of the complexity and depth of the game itself. I actually accept people with different ethnicity and beliefs. The only thing I care about is if the person has the skills and the dedication to strive for perfection. For all the progressive ideology displayed by TL posters, majority seem to be bunch of Xenophobes in practice.
Its not about being xenophobic. Its about wanting the game to be played outside of south Korea. If there was no national regional soccer competition countries that aren't powerhouses would stop supporting their players or maybe the players would stop trying to play.
|
On October 02 2013 19:24 GizmoPT wrote:
we need some savior of eSports
cute
suppose i'll put some content in this post. i'm actually interested to hear what else choya has to say on this whole shpiel. i never knew his involvement went so far beyond just being with FXO.
|
It confirms some suspicions I had about what happened in Korea too, basically the Kespa switch-over seemed like the worst thing to happen to the Korean scene.
Everyone wanted it because Kespa had all the sponsors (and fans) and there was a perception that BW was stiffling SC2's growth (in Korea).
But what ended up happening?
You had a sudden influx of players who just weren't motivated to play the game (look at the spate of retirements, after basically the first full contract year of them playing SC2). And even worse, they didn't actually bring the fans or sponsors over with them! That's practically the definition of oversaturation.
I think we could have seen the writing on the wall with the closure of 4(!) Kespa teams before the switch-over (5 if you include Air Force Ace) that Kespa wasn't wielding the big money anymore, at least not for BW/Starcraft 2. It's not like Kespa / Gom are oblivious to this either with their expansions into LoL and WoT.
|
On October 04 2013 03:50 Ohforfsake wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2013 23:39 TaishiCi wrote:On October 03 2013 23:18 c0ldfusion wrote:On October 03 2013 22:47 hmsrenown wrote:On October 03 2013 22:34 c0ldfusion wrote:On October 03 2013 05:03 Ohforfsake wrote:On October 03 2013 02:32 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 03 2013 02:27 Pirfiktshon wrote:
The chances will be considerably higher if we actually allow them to compete in a tournament of 16 people and 4 from NA 4 From EU 4 From SEA and 4 From Kor.... They will have 0 chance if there is 0 of them right?
Edit: Ofcourse I'm referring to Blizzcon You are treating this as completely random thing. Nowadays the only reliable way to get foreigner vs korean final or foreigner vs foreigner final is to SERIOUSLY limit amount of koreans participating compared to amount of players who are capable of winning at least Bo3 against them. How many players from SEA for example(they are great guys, but i doubt they will deny it) you know that can take Bo3 off HerO on a rather regular basis? Why does this always come up when this topic comes along. And always with the wrong conclusion. Since you are from Russia I'll assume you know what skiing is and have some grasp of that sport and use an example from the sport to explain this and what can be done to counteract it (it's also a very good sport to use since their situation is simular to korea and esports). First some facts. Skiing has a international federation called FIS who sets all the rules for international competition. This organization exists solely to promote the sport. It does not seek to maximize gain short term but to promote the sport as a whole long term (this part is important especially for esport). The organization is run by previous active athlets and not corporations. Here's a link to their rules for international competition. http://www.fis-ski.com/data/document/wsc-rules-2012-e_clean-version_291012.pdfThis is a growing sport that's been around for a long time and done the mistakes. It's also a sport with a very simular problem to esports. Norways is completely dominant as a nation. If there was no region locking and no limit of participation from different countries the top 10 of a world chamionship 2014 might look like this (I know there won't be a world championship next year). 1. Norway 2. Norway 3. Norway 4. Russia 5. Norway 6. Norway 7. Sweden 8. Norway 9. Norway 10. Norway And this is the top 10 in 5 years if this result list was ever allowed: 1. Norway 2. Norway 3. Norway 4. Norway 5. Norway 6. Norway 7. Norway 8. Norway 9. Norway 10. Norway The international organization knows this and has put rules in place to limit Norway and other strong nations participation to make the competition more enjoyable to watch from people all over the world (as opposed to the result above who only norwegians would like). Because the goal of the organization is to grow the sport, not to promote Norway or norwegian athletes. So, every nation can only send 4 participants +1 slot for the reigning champion (follows the athlete not the country). So Norway usually has 5 participants, everyone else 4 or less. This gives Norway a little edge but nothing that will upset the competition too much. As a fan from Norway you can still look forward to a good championship where norwegians have a good chanse of winning. And a fan from every other country you can look forward to a championship where someone from your country _CAN_ win. Even Norway promotes these rules (and helped create them) because they realize that it's much more fun to be the champion in something people elsewhere care about as opposed to being the world champion in american football to take 1 example.Despite this Norway has been dominating pretty badly again lately and the norwegians worry that this might diminish the interest in the sport globally and damage the sport. To try and counteract this they send some of their trainers to other countries to help them build up the competition.We'll see if it's enough or more action need to be taken to level the field. This is how a professional sport works with these issues. Why is it so hard for esports to learn from them?? That is what i don't understand. Nothing we do creating these events is new except the media. When it comes to generating interest and "hype" there's over 100 years of history from other sports to learns from. Here's a actual result from the last WC (2013) to give you and idea what these rules have ment for skiing. Womens 10k cross country freestyle: 1. Norway 2. Norway 3. Russia 4. Germany 5. USA 6. Norway 7. Sweden 8. Finland 9. Norway 10. France Men 15k cross country freestyle: 1. Norway 2. Sweden 3. Norway 4. Canada 5. Norway 6. Sweden 7. Estonia 8. Switzerland 9. Germany 10. Sweden It can be done guys. Whoa, that's an awful analogy. Full disclosure: football is the only sport I follow these days. While the NFL tries to actively promote the sport overseas, I can assure the vast majority of the American public does not care whether or not it's watched internationally. Taken a step further, if the game itself is intrinsically interesting, I don't think it matters where the competition comes from. That's how I feel about SC as well. Spoken like a true American. I think neither analogy is on point because of the eSports medium, if skiing is an awful analogy, NFL is just as much. To be clear, I'm not asserting that NFL is a good analogy for eSports - it's not. I was actually trying to point out that it's a poor analogy for skiing (which I agree is in turn, a poor analogy for eSports.) On its own, in eSports, the nationality of the players is irrelevant to me. What really matters is the quality of the matches - a result of the complexity and depth of the game itself. I actually accept people with different ethnicity and beliefs. The only thing I care about is if the person has the skills and the dedication to strive for perfection. For all the progressive ideology displayed by TL posters, majority seem to be bunch of Xenophobes in practice. So, If I care more about people from my home town than someone I have never met on the other side of the world I'm a Xenophobe? I'm gonna assume you're just joking and ignore that point. Now if you two want to be constructive you can try and explain what the big difference is between esports and other sports. Since you say that comparing to other sports is wrong because of a big difference it must be easy to state the difference, no? (I can't come up with a single difference)
If you care more about the physical appearance of someone more than their ability and character you are a Xenophobe.
I don't know what you are referring to, I think you are trying to quote the person I quoted?
It is pretty obvious that eSports is physically not demanding anything, only finger dexterity which more closer to playing piano than shooting a basketball.
eSports can be played online.
Real sports already have multitudes of branches that feed and help the professional scene thrive.
ect.
On October 04 2013 02:20 Crytash wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 01:16 TaishiCi wrote:On October 04 2013 00:13 Crytash wrote:
If that is true, how many real sports do you support where s. Korea is bad in? I'm a bigger supporter of the NFL than any eSports. Bought 2 season tickets in college and went to 2 NFL games. They are truly top physical/athletic specimens on the planet. I like hockey, there isn't any Koreans in the NHL. Went to numerous baseball games, there are like 5 Korean players in the MLB. Play basketball for vascular exercise, there aren't any Korean players in the NBA. Golf occasionally, Koreans aren't dominating in the PGA only the LPGA. Love UFC, only Benson Henderson is half Korean. I love sports because of their show of skill and talent with a whiff of violence. Well, if you live in the USA, those dominant sports don't count as well, right? :D You can easily identify with them, becouse you can actually visit the stadions.
He was looking for sports that I like that S. Koreans aren't dominant in.
|
On October 04 2013 04:42 TaishiCi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 03:50 Ohforfsake wrote:On October 03 2013 23:39 TaishiCi wrote:On October 03 2013 23:18 c0ldfusion wrote:On October 03 2013 22:47 hmsrenown wrote:On October 03 2013 22:34 c0ldfusion wrote:On October 03 2013 05:03 Ohforfsake wrote:On October 03 2013 02:32 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 03 2013 02:27 Pirfiktshon wrote:
The chances will be considerably higher if we actually allow them to compete in a tournament of 16 people and 4 from NA 4 From EU 4 From SEA and 4 From Kor.... They will have 0 chance if there is 0 of them right?
Edit: Ofcourse I'm referring to Blizzcon You are treating this as completely random thing. Nowadays the only reliable way to get foreigner vs korean final or foreigner vs foreigner final is to SERIOUSLY limit amount of koreans participating compared to amount of players who are capable of winning at least Bo3 against them. How many players from SEA for example(they are great guys, but i doubt they will deny it) you know that can take Bo3 off HerO on a rather regular basis? Why does this always come up when this topic comes along. And always with the wrong conclusion. Since you are from Russia I'll assume you know what skiing is and have some grasp of that sport and use an example from the sport to explain this and what can be done to counteract it (it's also a very good sport to use since their situation is simular to korea and esports). First some facts. Skiing has a international federation called FIS who sets all the rules for international competition. This organization exists solely to promote the sport. It does not seek to maximize gain short term but to promote the sport as a whole long term (this part is important especially for esport). The organization is run by previous active athlets and not corporations. Here's a link to their rules for international competition. http://www.fis-ski.com/data/document/wsc-rules-2012-e_clean-version_291012.pdfThis is a growing sport that's been around for a long time and done the mistakes. It's also a sport with a very simular problem to esports. Norways is completely dominant as a nation. If there was no region locking and no limit of participation from different countries the top 10 of a world chamionship 2014 might look like this (I know there won't be a world championship next year). 1. Norway 2. Norway 3. Norway 4. Russia 5. Norway 6. Norway 7. Sweden 8. Norway 9. Norway 10. Norway And this is the top 10 in 5 years if this result list was ever allowed: 1. Norway 2. Norway 3. Norway 4. Norway 5. Norway 6. Norway 7. Norway 8. Norway 9. Norway 10. Norway The international organization knows this and has put rules in place to limit Norway and other strong nations participation to make the competition more enjoyable to watch from people all over the world (as opposed to the result above who only norwegians would like). Because the goal of the organization is to grow the sport, not to promote Norway or norwegian athletes. So, every nation can only send 4 participants +1 slot for the reigning champion (follows the athlete not the country). So Norway usually has 5 participants, everyone else 4 or less. This gives Norway a little edge but nothing that will upset the competition too much. As a fan from Norway you can still look forward to a good championship where norwegians have a good chanse of winning. And a fan from every other country you can look forward to a championship where someone from your country _CAN_ win. Even Norway promotes these rules (and helped create them) because they realize that it's much more fun to be the champion in something people elsewhere care about as opposed to being the world champion in american football to take 1 example.Despite this Norway has been dominating pretty badly again lately and the norwegians worry that this might diminish the interest in the sport globally and damage the sport. To try and counteract this they send some of their trainers to other countries to help them build up the competition.We'll see if it's enough or more action need to be taken to level the field. This is how a professional sport works with these issues. Why is it so hard for esports to learn from them?? That is what i don't understand. Nothing we do creating these events is new except the media. When it comes to generating interest and "hype" there's over 100 years of history from other sports to learns from. Here's a actual result from the last WC (2013) to give you and idea what these rules have ment for skiing. Womens 10k cross country freestyle: 1. Norway 2. Norway 3. Russia 4. Germany 5. USA 6. Norway 7. Sweden 8. Finland 9. Norway 10. France Men 15k cross country freestyle: 1. Norway 2. Sweden 3. Norway 4. Canada 5. Norway 6. Sweden 7. Estonia 8. Switzerland 9. Germany 10. Sweden It can be done guys. Whoa, that's an awful analogy. Full disclosure: football is the only sport I follow these days. While the NFL tries to actively promote the sport overseas, I can assure the vast majority of the American public does not care whether or not it's watched internationally. Taken a step further, if the game itself is intrinsically interesting, I don't think it matters where the competition comes from. That's how I feel about SC as well. Spoken like a true American. I think neither analogy is on point because of the eSports medium, if skiing is an awful analogy, NFL is just as much. To be clear, I'm not asserting that NFL is a good analogy for eSports - it's not. I was actually trying to point out that it's a poor analogy for skiing (which I agree is in turn, a poor analogy for eSports.) On its own, in eSports, the nationality of the players is irrelevant to me. What really matters is the quality of the matches - a result of the complexity and depth of the game itself. I actually accept people with different ethnicity and beliefs. The only thing I care about is if the person has the skills and the dedication to strive for perfection. For all the progressive ideology displayed by TL posters, majority seem to be bunch of Xenophobes in practice. So, If I care more about people from my home town than someone I have never met on the other side of the world I'm a Xenophobe? I'm gonna assume you're just joking and ignore that point. Now if you two want to be constructive you can try and explain what the big difference is between esports and other sports. Since you say that comparing to other sports is wrong because of a big difference it must be easy to state the difference, no? (I can't come up with a single difference) If you care more about the physical appearance of someone more than their ability and character you are a Xenophobe.
I don't know what you are referring to, I think you are trying to quote the person I quoted? It is pretty obvious that eSports is physically not demanding anything, only finger dexterity which more closer to playing piano than shooting a basketball. eSports can be played online. Real sports already have multitudes of branches that feed and help the professional scene thrive. ect. Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 02:20 Crytash wrote:On October 04 2013 01:16 TaishiCi wrote:On October 04 2013 00:13 Crytash wrote:
If that is true, how many real sports do you support where s. Korea is bad in? I'm a bigger supporter of the NFL than any eSports. Bought 2 season tickets in college and went to 2 NFL games. They are truly top physical/athletic specimens on the planet. I like hockey, there isn't any Koreans in the NHL. Went to numerous baseball games, there are like 5 Korean players in the MLB. Play basketball for vascular exercise, there aren't any Korean players in the NBA. Golf occasionally, Koreans aren't dominating in the PGA only the LPGA. Love UFC, only Benson Henderson is half Korean. I love sports because of their show of skill and talent with a whiff of violence. Well, if you live in the USA, those dominant sports don't count as well, right? :D You can easily identify with them, becouse you can actually visit the stadions. He was looking for sports that I like that S. Koreans aren't dominant in.
I think that the bolded point is important to emphasize. Anyone calling anyone else a xenophobe does not know the reason some of us are advocating for one option over the other. I don't think the term can be proven to fit anyone speaking in this thread and don't think it has a place in the conversation. I don't think anyone is arguing for koreans to be outcast and treated poorly. I think we're arguing for a better situation that treats everyone relatively equal. Most of us are even offering ideas and suggestions that put "people that look like me" in an overall disadvantageous spot simply so they have an opportunity to grow.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
