Fomos reports that the Woongjin Stars front office has stated it will be "difficult to compete in the Proleague." Woongjin stars had just recently waived 6 core players in Free, Bravo, Organ, ZerO, Aria, and Hanbin.
Under KeSPA rules, players released on waivers have two weeks to sign a contract with a team or their player status is revoked for one year (probably only relevant to Proleague in the SC2 environment).
Woongjin stated that the team is NOT disbanding, but had waived players as they could not agree on new contracts. Soulkey is said to have been signed as a personal sponsorship, while negotiations with sOs are still in progress. Woongjin stated it would be likely that Soulkey and sOs would be signed under personal sponsorships, and the team would continue on with head coach Lee Jae Gyun, Soulkey, and sOs with plans to develop new players.
Lack of funding sucks. But Kespa seems to be having a hard time across the board. They rely so much on large Korean sponsors, that it all falls apart when those sponsors move on. To bad, but it is the growing pains for Kespa.
On October 02 2013 00:45 Plansix wrote: Lack of funding sucks. But Kespa seems to be having a hard time across the board. They rely so much on large Korean sponsors, that it all falls apart when those sponsors move on. To bad, but it is the growing pains for Kespa.
Everything has a lifespan, is born/created, grows/expands, and then withers and dies. People, plants, companies, worlds, galaxies, ect...
I don't think Kespa is in the growing stage, they are in the withering stage. They could make a comeback, but this isn't growing pains at all, it is shrinking pains.
What the ever living fuck balls dickwad! Fuck you Blizz, fuck you and your inability to grasp that winrates mean jack fucking shit! Winrates are just that--winrates! No one whined when Savior had an almost 90% winrate against Terran! No one batted an eyelash when nada, midas, oov had an 80% winrate against Zerg; audience participation boomed! Imbalance is something that brings audiences in! Do you think Idra was famous for good play or for whining about balance? FUCK YES MAKE THE GAME IMBALANCED! We WANT the game to be imbalanced. We want to have to make maps that forces strategies instead of preserving them, we want to be forced to cheese or die, we want to see someone figure out a way to stop said cheese, we want macro games to birth out of a world where cheese happens 90% of the time. BECAUSE ONLY THEN ARE MACRO GAMES IMPRESSIVE! Outside of this post I will still remain objective and show the pros and fucking cons of everything you implement, everything you have implemented, and everything you will implement--but FUCK! FUCKITY FUCK-FUCK YOU FUCKING FUCKS! Blizzard! Stop being so... EA!
iloveoov sure changed the tone of people by saying DK is balancing too much.
brb imbalanced game ftw rofl. The issue with sc2 isn't even balance, its the way its designed. Its too volatile and the optimal 3 bases destroys making small skirmish-like plays. Its not what DK has been doing that ruined sc2, not by a long shot.
What the ever living fuck balls dickwad! Fuck you Blizz, fuck you and your inability to grasp that winrates mean jack fucking shit! Winrates are just that--winrates! No one whined when Savior had an almost 90% winrate against Terran! No one batted an eyelash when nada, midas, oov had an 80% winrate against Zerg; audience participation boomed! Imbalance is something that brings audiences in! Do you think Idra was famous for good play or for whining about balance? FUCK YES MAKE THE GAME IMBALANCED! We WANT the game to be imbalanced. We want to have to make maps that forces strategies instead of preserving them, we want to be forced to cheese or die, we want to see someone figure out a way to stop said cheese, we want macro games to birth out of a world where cheese happens 90% of the time. BECAUSE ONLY THEN ARE MACRO GAMES IMPRESSIVE! Outside of this post I will still remain objective and show the pros and fucking cons of everything you implement, everything you have implemented, and everything you will implement--but FUCK! FUCKITY FUCK-FUCK YOU FUCKING FUCKS! Blizzard! Stop being so... EA!
People please kindly ignore the spoilered text.
This has very little to do with Blizzard's balancing strategy. Significant shrinkage was basically inevitable.
WJS have been my favourite PL team. sad to see this happening to them but with all the financial troubles one heard about, it had to be expected. still sad. very sad
What the ever living fuck balls dickwad! Fuck you Blizz, fuck you and your inability to grasp that winrates mean jack fucking shit! Winrates are just that--winrates! No one whined when Savior had an almost 90% winrate against Terran! No one batted an eyelash when nada, midas, oov had an 80% winrate against Zerg; audience participation boomed! Imbalance is something that brings audiences in! Do you think Idra was famous for good play or for whining about balance? FUCK YES MAKE THE GAME IMBALANCED! We WANT the game to be imbalanced. We want to have to make maps that forces strategies instead of preserving them, we want to be forced to cheese or die, we want to see someone figure out a way to stop said cheese, we want macro games to birth out of a world where cheese happens 90% of the time. BECAUSE ONLY THEN ARE MACRO GAMES IMPRESSIVE! Outside of this post I will still remain objective and show the pros and fucking cons of everything you implement, everything you have implemented, and everything you will implement--but FUCK! FUCKITY FUCK-FUCK YOU FUCKING FUCKS! Blizzard! Stop being so... EA!
People please kindly ignore the spoilered text.
This has very little to do with Blizzard's balancing strategy. Significant shrinkage was basically inevitable.
Shrinkage happened because SCII isn't as popular in Korea and their sponsors is having financial problems. Regardless, sad news
Isn't this more to do with Woongjin's financial troubles? Even if SC2 was booming I doubt they'd be able to afford player salaries. This has happened before, see Hwaesung Oz.
Wonder what's happening with Proleague, those rumors about it ending are starting to seem more solid. Then again even GSTL, while still very cool, has been reduced to being so small because of some of the old eSF teams jumping ship. I guess we could also end up with two of these mini team-leagues if there still is a proleague and they are unable to negotiate a merge.
On October 02 2013 02:06 nighcol wrote: Wonder what's happening with Proleague, those rumors about it ending are starting to seem more solid. Then again even GSTL, while still very cool, has been reduced to being so small because of some of the old eSF teams jumping ship. I guess we could also end up with two of these mini team-leagues if there still is a proleague and they are unable to negotiate a merge.
It's been confirmed that the next Proleague season will start in late november.
I'd say this has more to do with Woongjin the company and less to do with Woongjin the team. We all knew both STX and Woongjin were in financial troubles, and at least I found it very unlikely that KeSPA would leverage another Team 8.
GSTL ends late november, and I hope that the korean scene will stabilize around a joint team league with fewer teams. Right now we have:
KeSPA: KT, SKT1, Jin Air, CJ, Samsung, (Woongjin)
eSF: AZUBU, SouL, StarTale, FXO
Unaffiliated: Axiom, LG-IM, Prime, MVP
With Woongjin probably disappearing around the time of the next proleague, we'll be down to 13 teams in Korea. If SouL dissolves into another team as well, we could have a 12-team Proleague, broadcasted by GOM...
On October 02 2013 02:06 nighcol wrote: Wonder what's happening with Proleague, those rumors about it ending are starting to seem more solid. Then again even GSTL, while still very cool, has been reduced to being so small because of some of the old eSF teams jumping ship. I guess we could also end up with two of these mini team-leagues if there still is a proleague and they are unable to negotiate a merge.
It's been confirmed that the next Proleague season will start in late november.
I'd say this has more to do with Woongjin the company and less to do with Woongjin the team. We all knew both STX and Woongjin were in financial troubles, and at least I found it very unlikely that KeSPA would leverage another Team 8.
GSTL ends late november, and I hope that the korean scene will stabilize around a joint team league with fewer teams. Right now we have:
KeSPA: KT, SKT1, Jin Air, CJ, Samsung, (Woongjin)
eSF: AZUBU, SouL, StarTale, FXO
Unaffiliated: Axiom, LG-IM, Prime, MVP
With Woongjin probably disappearing around the time of the next proleague, we'll be down to 13 teams in Korea. If SouL dissolves into another team as well, we could have a 12-team Proleague, broadcasted by GOM...
One can dream...
And yeah, you have a good point about Woongjin the company. It is on the verge of bankruptcy!
This isn't the end of the world as some people claim it to be. Teams lose funding and disband even in the BW days however we have never seen the rise of so many legit foreign teams in the history of RTS games ever. In my opinion this may end up being a good thing for now as teams like Axiom are picking up promising young korean players and teams like EG are able to keep the tyrant JD alive & wealthy with arguably some of the best playing conditions out there. Also I am sure with a lot of korean players being stuck in korea for the time being they are unable to realize the amount of foreign fans out there that love them. I think JD is a perfect example of this when he was picked up by EG and was able to stream/twitter/compete in foreign events. This allowed him to see that although there may not be as many korean fans as he once had in korea there is swarms of foreign fans who love him and will come to events he plays in.
If Woongjin doesn't participate in Proleague next season does this mean that like GSTL the champions and runner-ups of the previous seasons won't be participating? It's funny how the best performing teams are leaving the leagues. lol
On October 02 2013 02:33 Pontius Pirate wrote: Question for BW fans: have there been teams that dominated PL in the regular season as thoroughly as Woongjin did this past season?
Wow... Even if there is no Korean scene or it isn't thriving, Koreans are going to be the best players in sc2. I fear there will be no more Sc2 Proleagues. WCS hurt both Koreans and foreigners, probably Koreans more.
the statement makes little sense. it is difficult to compete in proleague but they wont disband. it would make more sense if they just disband altogether. at this point, if they are going to send in a zombie team, it does not reflect well on the parent company and sponsors and proleague, they might as well not participate and save the expenses.
Even thought it was inevitable in such a crowded Korean scene, it's still a shock to see Woongjin collapsing like this. They were going so strong for so long... and then they weren't.
On October 02 2013 02:41 TaishiCi wrote: Wow... Even if there is no Korean scene or it isn't thriving, Koreans are going to be the best players in sc2. I fear there will be no more Sc2 Proleagues. WCS hurt both Koreans and foreigners, probably Koreans more.
You do realize that this has more to do with their sponsor being in the verge of bankruptcy, right? WCS didn't cause that...
On October 02 2013 03:02 Sated wrote: If you take an already saturated scene and add a whole bunch of new pro teams (KeSPA) then some of those new players (and some of the old ones) aren't going to be good enough any more. It's pretty simple logic. It has nothing to do with the game "dying".
It's not about them not being good enough though. The problem is the sponsor, and thats not caused of too many players
I'd be pretty sad to see woongjin go. That said, if the korean scene were to collapse down to a unified team leauge with a few less teams it would be worth it.
What the ever living fuck balls dickwad! Fuck you Blizz, fuck you and your inability to grasp that winrates mean jack fucking shit! Winrates are just that--winrates! No one whined when Savior had an almost 90% winrate against Terran! No one batted an eyelash when nada, midas, oov had an 80% winrate against Zerg; audience participation boomed! Imbalance is something that brings audiences in! Do you think Idra was famous for good play or for whining about balance? FUCK YES MAKE THE GAME IMBALANCED! We WANT the game to be imbalanced. We want to have to make maps that forces strategies instead of preserving them, we want to be forced to cheese or die, we want to see someone figure out a way to stop said cheese, we want macro games to birth out of a world where cheese happens 90% of the time. BECAUSE ONLY THEN ARE MACRO GAMES IMPRESSIVE! Outside of this post I will still remain objective and show the pros and fucking cons of everything you implement, everything you have implemented, and everything you will implement--but FUCK! FUCKITY FUCK-FUCK YOU FUCKING FUCKS! Blizzard! Stop being so... EA!
People please kindly ignore the spoilered text.
User was temp banned for this post.
wat
im really confused by what's going on right now with stars, hope it works out.
lol @people even connecting this to star 2s state in korea. Wongjin has financially problems, and cutting everyone besides the two stars and trying to go with tons of b teamers (they are fucking cheap afterall) only makes sense when you run out of money. I'm rather happy that they are not shutting the team down, afterall they were rumored to do so way before the hole stx/soul thing even started.
The writing is on the wall. Just delaying at this point. Starcraft II. Is getting boring at this point no matter how Artosis and Tasteless try to dress it up. Still way better than other e sports to watch IMO though.
On October 02 2013 03:36 Lorch wrote: lol @people even connecting this to star 2s state in korea. Wongjin has financially problems, and cutting everyone besides the two stars and trying to go with tons of b teamers (they are fucking cheap afterall) only makes sense when you run out of money. I'm rather happy that they are not shutting the team down, afterall they were rumored to do so way before the hole stx/soul thing even started.
What the ever living fuck balls dickwad! Fuck you Blizz, fuck you and your inability to grasp that winrates mean jack fucking shit! Winrates are just that--winrates! No one whined when Savior had an almost 90% winrate against Terran! No one batted an eyelash when nada, midas, oov had an 80% winrate against Zerg; audience participation boomed! Imbalance is something that brings audiences in! Do you think Idra was famous for good play or for whining about balance? FUCK YES MAKE THE GAME IMBALANCED! We WANT the game to be imbalanced. We want to have to make maps that forces strategies instead of preserving them, we want to be forced to cheese or die, we want to see someone figure out a way to stop said cheese, we want macro games to birth out of a world where cheese happens 90% of the time. BECAUSE ONLY THEN ARE MACRO GAMES IMPRESSIVE! Outside of this post I will still remain objective and show the pros and fucking cons of everything you implement, everything you have implemented, and everything you will implement--but FUCK! FUCKITY FUCK-FUCK YOU FUCKING FUCKS! Blizzard! Stop being so... EA!
People please kindly ignore the spoilered text.
User was temp banned for this post.
In a related matter on your spoilered thoughts that led to your tempban, let me quote iloveoov in a recent interview on the same topic (source):
Reporter: what do you think is the biggest problem with SC2?
"I have played all blizzard games with the exception of WC3. In WoW, there was a character called the Warlock. He could win 2:1 and 3:1. But blizzard kept releasing balance patches. WoW has 10 classes but I saw as blizzard kept releasing buffs and nerfs. So what ended up happening was, people started playing Warlock when it was powerful but soon jumped to Hunter when that was proven to be powerful. One day I awoke to see that they were also doing the same thing to SC2."
Reporter: I think you're referring to something other than balance.
"Let's compare the two games; In SC1, they only released bug patches and was relatively untouched for ten years. We would do starleagues where at times there would only be one or two protosses. Terrans would occupy more than half the pool. If David Kim were there at that time he would have buffed protoss. That would have meant that we would have been without the exciting and awe-inspiring play of Bisu's prime. Protoss was the minority race and difficult. Thus, its play was given birth to by players like Reach and Nal_Ra. To be frank, I think it is David Kim who creates the winner when it is the gamer who must create the game. It doesn't matter what I say though; the truth is David Kim will keep on tweaking the game. I don't know what his true motives are. Is it to create a 5:5:5 of balance? I truly do not know."
So, there we go. I am not a person that goes nuts about David Kim all the time, because I actually think he has a tough job, since he has to keep a balance between the official Blizzard line and the community's will, but the older the game gets, I think the wronger his approach is proven (is that legal english?^^).
I mean, there were so many patches even pre-hots resulting in a huge change, let me just quote some that instantly come to my mind:
- Queen Buff! - Infestor Nerf! - Ghost Nerf!
By now, I think it's the wrong approach. The game has no time to develop - as an example for that, I will pull the recent overseer buff. Zerg start to figure out how to micro their overseers into mines, making them attacking the terran's units. Zerg whined a lot about Terran being strong, and in general there was a huge cry for buffs/nerfs due to the matchup becoming stable and boring. Oh well, just let MMMM vs LBM play out for like half a year, I'll make a huge bet that Zerg will figure out a solution for the metagame, which is all about reaching 3/3 and denying Zerg's fourth (as it appears to me, I might be wrong!), besides roach/bane allins.
Edit, final thoughts: iloveoov points out protoss in BW being weak, but the appearance of Bisu (and others before) changed that. The same happened for terran, before Innovation figuring out the power of MMMM pressure off 3 bases, it wasn't used as a tool for stopping zerg's fourth and winning on better trades via 3/3 vs 2/2. So let's just wait for more Saviors, let's wait for more Bisus, before we write off everything. There is way too much whine coming out of the community.
Woongjin was having (i refer to the corporate that owns/runs the stars team) financial trouble anyway, how the hell is it related to starcraft 2 ? These guys didnt even have LoL team
People seem to forget that for the first two years of Starcraft 2's existence, Kespa teams and Kespa players weren't a part of the Starcraft 2 scene at all. If every single Kespa team disbanded and player retired, it would be much like before.
On October 02 2013 00:45 Plansix wrote: Lack of funding sucks. But Kespa seems to be having a hard time across the board. They rely so much on large Korean sponsors, that it all falls apart when those sponsors move on. To bad, but it is the growing pains for Kespa.
You don't have to worry for Kespa. They have LoL to cash in money. Dumping SC2 and adding LoL as the main game means growth. Just worry for your favorite game and the SC2 scene!
Kespa is saying this to Blizzard: "Screws you, I'm dumping your game and taking in Riot's game"
On October 02 2013 03:57 roolyo wrote: Don't understand Kespa strategy in korea for SC2. The 2 finalists team of last proleague just gone... Show me the money !!!!
They dont have enough watchers. People in korea dont care about sc2.
On October 02 2013 00:45 Plansix wrote: Lack of funding sucks. But Kespa seems to be having a hard time across the board. They rely so much on large Korean sponsors, that it all falls apart when those sponsors move on. To bad, but it is the growing pains for Kespa.
You don't have to worry for Kespa. They have LoL to cash in money. Dumping SC2 and adding LoL as the main game means growth. Just worry for your favorite game and the SC2 scene!
Kespa is saying this to Blizzard: "Screws you, I'm dumping your game and taking in Riot's and Valve's game"
Soul, Khan, Jin Air, now WS. who will be the next KeSPA team to have a roster overhaul? My guess is KT Rolster. The days of extremely large teams are over. It takes too many resources to sustain, and there's just not enough profit in Korean SC2 right now. My guess is also that Startale, MVP, IM will have a few player cuts soon. One positive thing that may result from this is that all these Koreans who want to continue their professional player career, will have to join a foreign team, a Chinese team, or a less competitive Korean team. I think that the mass concentration of talent Starcraft being mostly in Korea, has affected the popularity of Starcraft as an e-sport. The talent finally dispersing to other regions will definitely be positive in the long haul, but right now there are still growing pains. Good luck to all the ex-WS players, especially those joining new teams, or making it into the Challenger series!
On October 02 2013 04:40 Advantageous wrote: Goddamn it Woongjin... I hope this doesnt turn into a disband... we need these teams to stay put until Legacy of the Void comes out to fix the game...
Last year we were saying the same thing.. with HoTS
What the ever living fuck balls dickwad! Fuck you Blizz, fuck you and your inability to grasp that winrates mean jack fucking shit! Winrates are just that--winrates! No one whined when Savior had an almost 90% winrate against Terran! No one batted an eyelash when nada, midas, oov had an 80% winrate against Zerg; audience participation boomed! Imbalance is something that brings audiences in! Do you think Idra was famous for good play or for whining about balance? FUCK YES MAKE THE GAME IMBALANCED! We WANT the game to be imbalanced. We want to have to make maps that forces strategies instead of preserving them, we want to be forced to cheese or die, we want to see someone figure out a way to stop said cheese, we want macro games to birth out of a world where cheese happens 90% of the time. BECAUSE ONLY THEN ARE MACRO GAMES IMPRESSIVE! Outside of this post I will still remain objective and show the pros and fucking cons of everything you implement, everything you have implemented, and everything you will implement--but FUCK! FUCKITY FUCK-FUCK YOU FUCKING FUCKS! Blizzard! Stop being so... EA!
People please kindly ignore the spoilered text.
User was temp banned for this post.
this guy doesn't deserve to be temp banned. YOU TL mods are nazis
What the ever living fuck balls dickwad! Fuck you Blizz, fuck you and your inability to grasp that winrates mean jack fucking shit! Winrates are just that--winrates! No one whined when Savior had an almost 90% winrate against Terran! No one batted an eyelash when nada, midas, oov had an 80% winrate against Zerg; audience participation boomed! Imbalance is something that brings audiences in! Do you think Idra was famous for good play or for whining about balance? FUCK YES MAKE THE GAME IMBALANCED! We WANT the game to be imbalanced. We want to have to make maps that forces strategies instead of preserving them, we want to be forced to cheese or die, we want to see someone figure out a way to stop said cheese, we want macro games to birth out of a world where cheese happens 90% of the time. BECAUSE ONLY THEN ARE MACRO GAMES IMPRESSIVE! Outside of this post I will still remain objective and show the pros and fucking cons of everything you implement, everything you have implemented, and everything you will implement--but FUCK! FUCKITY FUCK-FUCK YOU FUCKING FUCKS! Blizzard! Stop being so... EA!
People please kindly ignore the spoilered text.
User was temp banned for this post.
this guy doesn't deserve to be temp banned. YOU TL mods are nazis
if you mods ban me now, you're proving my point
Read the Ten Commandments, there are rules in this site and they wil be upheld. Our signing up for accounts on TL implies our agreement to the rules.
On October 02 2013 06:43 PinkTaricOnly wrote: Soul, Khan, Jin Air, now WS. who will be the next KeSPA team to have a roster overhaul? My guess is KT Rolster. The days of extremely large teams are over. It takes too many resources to sustain, and there's just not enough profit in Korean SC2 right now. My guess is also that Startale, MVP, IM will have a few player cuts soon. One positive thing that may result from this is that all these Koreans who want to continue their professional player career, will have to join a foreign team, a Chinese team, or a less competitive Korean team. I think that the mass concentration of talent Starcraft being mostly in Korea, has affected the popularity of Starcraft as an e-sport. The talent finally dispersing to other regions will definitely be positive in the long haul, but right now there are still growing pains. Good luck to all the ex-WS players, especially those joining new teams, or making it into the Challenger series!
Or playing BW again, cause that's the general trend of SC2 retirees.
What the ever living fuck balls dickwad! Fuck you Blizz, fuck you and your inability to grasp that winrates mean jack fucking shit! Winrates are just that--winrates! No one whined when Savior had an almost 90% winrate against Terran! No one batted an eyelash when nada, midas, oov had an 80% winrate against Zerg; audience participation boomed! Imbalance is something that brings audiences in! Do you think Idra was famous for good play or for whining about balance? FUCK YES MAKE THE GAME IMBALANCED! We WANT the game to be imbalanced. We want to have to make maps that forces strategies instead of preserving them, we want to be forced to cheese or die, we want to see someone figure out a way to stop said cheese, we want macro games to birth out of a world where cheese happens 90% of the time. BECAUSE ONLY THEN ARE MACRO GAMES IMPRESSIVE! Outside of this post I will still remain objective and show the pros and fucking cons of everything you implement, everything you have implemented, and everything you will implement--but FUCK! FUCKITY FUCK-FUCK YOU FUCKING FUCKS! Blizzard! Stop being so... EA!
People please kindly ignore the spoilered text.
User was temp banned for this post.
this guy doesn't deserve to be temp banned. YOU TL mods are nazis
if you mods ban me now, you're proving my point
User was temp banned for this post.
Please post your sources. Oh wait, you can't. Maybe in 2 weeks.
Game balance discussion apart, the problems in korea come as many said (like Khaldor stated in one of his video) that sc2 is not as popular as sc1 mostly because blizzard neglected to respect the game model koreans like which is Free to play. Sc1 was not really free to play, but cracked and Free to play in PC bangs with low fees to pay to the PC bang. So when sc2 came out totally out of korean game model, then it decayed in profit toward LoL, WoT, etc etc.
In the other hands, sc2 had much more success than sc1 in the rest of the world even China.
So who can judge what happen next, sc2 failing in korea therefor we might slowly lose the Blizz RTS mecca pulling in his descent everyone or sc2 will relocate more to Euro/AM/China and stay alive or even stronger (Cuz protoss add-on is still to be released, don't forget )
What the ever living fuck balls dickwad! Fuck you Blizz, fuck you and your inability to grasp that winrates mean jack fucking shit! Winrates are just that--winrates! No one whined when Savior had an almost 90% winrate against Terran! No one batted an eyelash when nada, midas, oov had an 80% winrate against Zerg; audience participation boomed! Imbalance is something that brings audiences in! Do you think Idra was famous for good play or for whining about balance? FUCK YES MAKE THE GAME IMBALANCED! We WANT the game to be imbalanced. We want to have to make maps that forces strategies instead of preserving them, we want to be forced to cheese or die, we want to see someone figure out a way to stop said cheese, we want macro games to birth out of a world where cheese happens 90% of the time. BECAUSE ONLY THEN ARE MACRO GAMES IMPRESSIVE! Outside of this post I will still remain objective and show the pros and fucking cons of everything you implement, everything you have implemented, and everything you will implement--but FUCK! FUCKITY FUCK-FUCK YOU FUCKING FUCKS! Blizzard! Stop being so... EA!
People please kindly ignore the spoilered text.
User was temp banned for this post.
this guy doesn't deserve to be temp banned. YOU TL mods are nazis
if you mods ban me now, you're proving my point
User was temp banned for this post.
Please post your sources. Oh wait, you can't. Maybe in 2 weeks.
STX and WJS has their writing on the walls for a while now with both filing for bankrupcy (Their main sponsors). The only things you can take from this is a) They dont see keeping the team as an absolute necessity given their status b) The companies were already planning on cutting the team but just delaying it because of the SPL that was going on at that time.
What the ever living fuck balls dickwad! Fuck you Blizz, fuck you and your inability to grasp that winrates mean jack fucking shit! Winrates are just that--winrates! No one whined when Savior had an almost 90% winrate against Terran! No one batted an eyelash when nada, midas, oov had an 80% winrate against Zerg; audience participation boomed! Imbalance is something that brings audiences in! Do you think Idra was famous for good play or for whining about balance? FUCK YES MAKE THE GAME IMBALANCED! We WANT the game to be imbalanced. We want to have to make maps that forces strategies instead of preserving them, we want to be forced to cheese or die, we want to see someone figure out a way to stop said cheese, we want macro games to birth out of a world where cheese happens 90% of the time. BECAUSE ONLY THEN ARE MACRO GAMES IMPRESSIVE! Outside of this post I will still remain objective and show the pros and fucking cons of everything you implement, everything you have implemented, and everything you will implement--but FUCK! FUCKITY FUCK-FUCK YOU FUCKING FUCKS! Blizzard! Stop being so... EA!
People please kindly ignore the spoilered text.
User was temp banned for this post.
this guy doesn't deserve to be temp banned. YOU TL mods are nazis
if you mods ban me now, you're proving my point
User was temp banned for this post.
Please post your sources. Oh wait, you can't. Maybe in 2 weeks.
wow bm. Mods are so mean
Except for shelly, shells is just cold and unfeeling.
Saying that financial troubles are the cause doesn't tell the full story. Companies have ups and downs over the years - this is inevitable. But they don't drop their pro team unless they feel it isn't worth keeping around. That was not the case before.
On October 02 2013 11:44 LegalLord wrote: Saying that financial troubles are the cause doesn't tell the full story. Companies have ups and downs over the years - this is inevitable. But they don't drop their pro team unless they feel it isn't worth keeping around. That was not the case before.
"Financial troubles" is putting it lightly. I will do some research on Woongjin's financial position during lunch and post it here.
From my understanding, Woongjin is in deep shit and might have to declare bankruptcy. That limits your "marketing" budget a bit and things like pro teams might look a little silly next paying off your creditors.
Everyone knows by now that Woongjin is in trouble financially, and a cursory look at some recent news reveals the following:
1. Majority stake in Woongjin Chemical Co Ltd will likely be sold to Toray Industries Inc. source 2. Woongjin Foods have six approved bidders for 57.87%. source Five bidders have placed binding bids. source 3. An agreement to sell 30% of Woongjin Coway to MBK Partners was agreed but this was back in November 2012, and no news about it since. source 4. SkyLake Incuvest to acquire Woongjin PassOne. source 5. Woongjin CEO and 6 other execs indicted in fraud case. Woongjin Holdings Co Ltd issued 100billion Won in commercial papers to avoid bankrupty, even though they knew they had no way to pay back their debts. source and source 6. Woongjin CEO indicted for embezzlement. He and 6 other execs withdrew 1.25billion Won from Rexfield Country Club, a Woongjin affiliate, to pay for their severance payments. source 7. Woongjin Holdings Co. have 1.57trillion Won in debts. source
Some financial info for you, but mostly just income statements because I am too lazy to look through balance sheets and cashflows.
Coway's revenues have remained stable after a major collapse in 2010, but their SGA Expenses continue to climb resulting in a comparable drop in their net income.
What a coincidence that every Kespa team with a Lol team is not disbanding Woongjin and STX didnt have a Lol team that is what sponsors are interested in because of the greater exposure and popularity of Lol in Korea.I hope that Kespa and eSF get together and merge their respective teamleagues that is what is needed, they must unite so that sc2 can triumph in Korea.
On October 02 2013 14:22 Cubanboy96 wrote: What a coincidence that every Kespa team with a Lol team is not disbanding Woongjin and STX didnt have a Lol team that is what sponsors are interested in because of the greater exposure and popularity of Lol in Korea.I hope that Kespa and eSF get together and merge their respective teamleagues that is what is needed, they must unite so that sc2 can triumph in Korea.
Yes, not having a LoL team is why STX Pan Ocean went bankrupt. Definitely.
On October 02 2013 14:22 Cubanboy96 wrote: What a coincidence that every Kespa team with a Lol team is not disbanding Woongjin and STX didnt have a Lol team that is what sponsors are interested in because of the greater exposure and popularity of Lol in Korea.I hope that Kespa and eSF get together and merge their respective teamleagues that is what is needed, they must unite so that sc2 can triumph in Korea.
Having them merge won't affect the Korean audience. Will a league be better off? Sure, but this isn't going to change the viewership in that market at all. This is just a symptom of the problem.
As for the other guy, pro teams do collapse when a market is no longer viable or the owner decides to sell the franchise off to the highest bidder and in some cases look at relocating the team. It happens. As of right now, the KeSPA teams don't see such strategies being feasible. After all, we're talking about Korean Companies as the sponsor. On the global stage things aren't as bleak, but at the end of the day these companies answer toward the Korean populace, so if those dollars are well spent elsewhere like LoL teams then they're going to do it. Then you have stories like this where the company is bankrupt or stupid amount of debt and wish to cut it off such departments completely. Then you have companies who wish to go in an entirely different direction altogether and once again they get cut off. Hello more music channels from MBC. ._.
Wonder whats gonna happen to the team-house and staff. They make it sound like they're gonna keep them around, but keeping them around for 2 players? Seems kind of pointless. Not to mention, it just became a million times harder for sOs and SoulKey to practice
On October 02 2013 14:22 Cubanboy96 wrote: What a coincidence that every Kespa team with a Lol team is not disbanding Woongjin and STX didnt have a Lol team that is what sponsors are interested in because of the greater exposure and popularity of Lol in Korea.I hope that Kespa and eSF get together and merge their respective teamleagues that is what is needed, they must unite so that sc2 can triumph in Korea.
Yes, not having a LoL team is why STX Pan Ocean went bankrupt. Definitely.
LG dumped IM team. At least MVP was able to sell its LOL team. But no one was interested in their sc2 team.
The same goes for Woongjin and STX not any new sponsor is intersted in sc2.
Maybe they do some sort of EG/Woogjin association to participate in SPL or some shit (I would say with Prime but Prime has no money, they are searching for sponsors as well)
On October 04 2013 03:49 j1nzo wrote: so as i moved to england i wasn't able to follow sc2 for ~2months and now i read "sc2 is dead" in almost every thread... wtf happened
Not much, people got spooked by announcements that were in the works for months.
On October 04 2013 03:49 j1nzo wrote: so as i moved to england i wasn't able to follow sc2 for ~2months and now i read "sc2 is dead" in almost every thread... wtf happened
Not much, people got spooked by announcements that were in the works for months.
They were spooked because there is doubts about the game.
I remember when Hero won dreamhack with tears streaming down his face and I was filled with so much hope about the future of this sport. But now? Taeja's clap is the kind of fire in our bellies
I just feel so, drained. Its hard to be hopeful right now, its just so hard.
On October 02 2013 22:00 Khai wrote: At this stage with all this happening I'm starting to doubt there'll even be another SC2 Proleague T_T
Proleague has been confirmed to be starting in late november. If it follows the pattern of the last few, we're sure to have top level team league action for another 6-8 months or so.
On October 02 2013 14:22 Cubanboy96 wrote: What a coincidence that every Kespa team with a Lol team is not disbanding Woongjin and STX didnt have a Lol team that is what sponsors are interested in because of the greater exposure and popularity of Lol in Korea.I hope that Kespa and eSF get together and merge their respective teamleagues that is what is needed, they must unite so that sc2 can triumph in Korea.
Yes, not having a LoL team is why STX Pan Ocean went bankrupt. Definitely.
LG dumped IM team. At least MVP was able to sell its LOL team. But no one was interested in their sc2 team.
The same goes for Woongjin and STX not any new sponsor is intersted in sc2.
IM has 2 LoL teams, so I'm not really sure what you're trying to get at. Also Jin Air sponsored 2 LoL teams and Team8, they could have easily sponsored the LoL teams only.
MVP didn't sell their SC2 team to Samsung because.....they already have an SC2 team. Also where was it announced that they even wanted to sell their SC2 team?
On October 02 2013 14:22 Cubanboy96 wrote: What a coincidence that every Kespa team with a Lol team is not disbanding Woongjin and STX didnt have a Lol team that is what sponsors are interested in because of the greater exposure and popularity of Lol in Korea.I hope that Kespa and eSF get together and merge their respective teamleagues that is what is needed, they must unite so that sc2 can triumph in Korea.
Yes, not having a LoL team is why STX Pan Ocean went bankrupt. Definitely.
LG dumped IM team. At least MVP was able to sell its LOL team. But no one was interested in their sc2 team.
The same goes for Woongjin and STX not any new sponsor is intersted in sc2.
IM has 2 LoL teams, so I'm not really sure what you're trying to get at. Also Jin Air sponsored 2 LoL teams and Team8, they could have easily sponsored the LoL teams only.
MVP didn't sell their SC2 team to Samsung because.....they already have an SC2 team. Also where was it announced that they even wanted to sell their SC2 team?
Yeah, using IM as an example of teams not interested in sc2 is rather bad idea. Also, did not ex-MVP.LOL fail at LoL Worlds (not watching LoL, just remember something like that mentioned in one of 'sc2dedgaem' discussions here)? MVP may as well have sniffed out something and sold the cake while it was hot.
On October 04 2013 03:49 j1nzo wrote: so as i moved to england i wasn't able to follow sc2 for ~2months and now i read "sc2 is dead" in almost every thread... wtf happened
Not much, people got spooked by announcements that were in the works for months.
They were spooked because there is doubts about the game.
I remember when Hero won dreamhack with tears streaming down his face and I was filled with so much hope about the future of this sport. But now? Taeja's clap is the kind of fire in our bellies
I just feel so, drained. Its hard to be hopeful right now, its just so hard.
Honestly, nothing has changed besides the fact that there is another titan on the block. When the time came for the SC2 community to stay strong and be hopeful, everyone did what they were doing before. Inane whining, absurd amounts of crying about the game and blizzard, and the like. When SC2 was the only game on the block, we could get away with that, but with other games, the community can't just get away with that. Blizzard fucked up with the WCS system. I was hopeful for it, but they made a mess of it. I'm not gonna blame the community for this, but I will say that everyone constantly saying that SC2 is dying is about as useful as telling a baby that it's going to die literally every day of it's life; the statement is true, but so utterly useless and avoidable if one were to look at it's growth.
On October 04 2013 03:49 j1nzo wrote: so as i moved to england i wasn't able to follow sc2 for ~2months and now i read "sc2 is dead" in almost every thread... wtf happened
just people enjoying to jump on the bandwagon. Everything is fine, starcraft 2 will not dissappear, just a lot of behind the scenes stuff finally coming out, though there is still a lot of positive behind the scene stuff not out. Everyone should just chill out. There are a lot of community who pray for their game to ever be as big as we are atm. Just because there are bigger games does not mean starcraft will die. Esports isn't some wierd black/white world where you are either number 1 or dead.
I think they'll wrap up gstl and force a merger for proleague. It's just not viable to keep the shrinking sc2 scene split in two. Maybe they'll do proleague joint effort by ogn and Gom. Air one day in the Gom studio, air in the ogn studios the next.
On October 02 2013 14:22 Cubanboy96 wrote: What a coincidence that every Kespa team with a Lol team is not disbanding Woongjin and STX didnt have a Lol team that is what sponsors are interested in because of the greater exposure and popularity of Lol in Korea.I hope that Kespa and eSF get together and merge their respective teamleagues that is what is needed, they must unite so that sc2 can triumph in Korea.
Yes, not having a LoL team is why STX Pan Ocean went bankrupt. Definitely.
LG dumped IM team. At least MVP was able to sell its LOL team. But no one was interested in their sc2 team.
The same goes for Woongjin and STX not any new sponsor is intersted in sc2.
IM has 2 LoL teams, so I'm not really sure what you're trying to get at. Also Jin Air sponsored 2 LoL teams and Team8, they could have easily sponsored the LoL teams only.
MVP didn't sell their SC2 team to Samsung because.....they already have an SC2 team. Also where was it announced that they even wanted to sell their SC2 team?
Yeah, using IM as an example of teams not interested in sc2 is rather bad idea. Also, did not ex-MVP.LOL fail at LoL Worlds (not watching LoL, just remember something like that mentioned in one of 'sc2dedgaem' discussions here)? MVP may as well have sniffed out something and sold the cake while it was hot.
They failed mainly because Samsung forced a roster change before the finals. They made one of their subs play in every game and his performance was absolutely mediocre.
EPT
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