iloveoov's interview after returning to SKT - Page 9

On October 01 2013 12:17 ETisME wrote:
completely disagree with his opinion.
We saw how infestor broodlord killed almost the whole viewership number and zerg just dominating the scene.
Even if WoL had the tools to "fix" this, the "fix" might not come for years
(we saw how even after nerfing infestors, zerg dominance just continued, imaged infestors weren't even nerfed)

the so called strategy he is recommending comes in a form of opening/timing push, just like how toss uses immortal sentries all in to kill the zerg before it's too late or bomber 2-2 timing.
This is also when it leads to 99% of the game is immortal sentries all in or zerg gets to broodlord infestors.

Honestly, every nerf/buff just makes the game to develope quicker or make the metagame more stable, it doesn't kill pro to innovate a build.
Did slayers hellion opening died down? nope, it still became standard and just didn't end the game with a mass runby as often
Did Mvp mech die down? well if mech was played more often...we would know.
Did muta style got phrased out? nope, because buff was on both phoenix and muta.

On October 01 2013 14:46 Sawamura wrote:
iloveoov always has the best interview I agree with what he is trying to say mostly they should let sc2 grow naturally rather than patch it up.

On October 01 2013 14:36 KoinZell wrote:


Slayers Hellion opening only works in certain situations. And that's when the zerg doesn't even make half a walloff, doesn't work toward roaches or mutas. I think maybe the build can actually work against 3 hatch quite well. But it's really specific in what it does. It's focused on dealing damage to extremely greedy zergs.
The MvP mech is far less useful because of the Muta buff. Mutas are actually way too good against pure mech.
And you're contradicting yourself saying that ''Metagame is more stable'' which is ridiculous. How can constant changes in the metagame make it more ''stable''? For example the TvZ scene will COMPLETELY change once the ''Potential future balance patch'' hits. I and I mean it will completely change. Terrans will turn toward a more WoL style (Which is stupidly sad, and a silly choice for David Kim.). Now tell me, where is the ''stability'' that you spoke of?
And there actually have been tons of innovations in the SC2 scene, the problem is that these innovations never last for too long because of the future nerfs that ''Oov'' mentioned. You might have tons of great builds but they usually don't last longer than 1-2 seasons.

There needs to be a balance of ''letting things play out'' and ''necessary nerfs/buffs''. Currently there's way too many ''Oh this playstyle doesn't match our vision so we're nerfing it to the ground'' patches (For example the widowmine thing again.). That thing KILLS innovation. Because how can you innovate a scene which is constantly changing and ''innovating'' itself? You can't. Which is the problem.

On October 01 2013 15:03 ETisME wrote:
The intented change for TvZ is because the matchup is getting way too stale and people are asking for change, that is why TvZ is getting a patch as big as this is.
The widow mine has replaced tank's role in TvZ and a tonnes of people is finding it way too predictable and boring.
Did they not give bio mine all the time for it to be stabilized only to find people are actually bored of it already?
When was the last time you see anything innovative against bio mine? Dimaga overseer bust, which is helped by the overseer patch.

Look back at the beta, blizzard always set the direction for one unit and then patch around it. This is what they are doing.
This patch is here to make metagame more interesting. Just like the roach burrow upgrade which we have NOT seen any usage at all throughout entire SC2 history.
There is a reasonable level of acceptance of imbalanceness in order for it to be patched which we will have like what we had for bio mine in TvZ.

Mech for one, is going to get a looked at. Without any patch, mech won't even be used anymore than what we have now. T would have one style completely not viable except in TvT in the whole of Hots.
The game still needs patches for it to operate, which is why people are calling sc2 not yet a finished product until lotv.

On October 01 2013 15:15 KoinZell wrote:


How can you innovate a scene if you can't even have the time to innovate it? That's the thing. How can you innovate a scene when the scene has barely begun? xD
The way I see it, Widowmine will turn completely useless in TvZ, and even in TvP it will only have use in holding off allins. Using mines to harass isn't an option because the AoE range is like half of the current range. Is that kind of a change where the mine turns completely useless good? How can you innovate a scene with that certain mine? You can't. Innovating means that you completely change the scene by something that is thought to be impossible. And once someone thinks up a way to use widowmines in their composition,

The reason why people are crying for a balance patch is because the average zerg isn't used to microing or anything of sorts, and they think that widowmines are ''unfair'' (Which is nonsense.).

I say that Blizzard needs to give the sc2 scene far more time to think up different strategies. Bio-mine has a good number of counters on the zerg side, so currently I'm starting to notice more diverse builds from the terran players. So why not give them time to practice those new builds?

On October 01 2013 15:15 KoinZell wrote:


How can you innovate a scene if you can't even have the time to innovate it? That's the thing. How can you innovate a scene when the scene has barely begun? xD
The way I see it, Widowmine will turn completely useless in TvZ, and even in TvP it will only have use in holding off allins. Using mines to harass isn't an option because the AoE range is like half of the current range. Is that kind of a change where the mine turns completely useless good? How can you innovate a scene with that certain mine? You can't. Innovating means that you completely change the scene by something that is thought to be impossible. And once someone thinks up a way to use widowmines in their composition,

The reason why people are crying for a balance patch is because the average zerg isn't used to microing or anything of sorts, and they think that widowmines are ''unfair'' (Which is nonsense.).

I say that Blizzard needs to give the sc2 scene far more time to think up different strategies. Bio-mine has a good number of counters on the zerg side, so currently I'm starting to notice more diverse builds from the terran players. So why not give them time to practice those new builds?

On October 01 2013 15:37 BigFan wrote:
While I agree that Blizzard patched too much in WoL, I have to disagree with biomine. I think widow mines need a small nerf, definitely not how much Blizzard plans to nerf them but a small nerf so that you consider whether getting a mine or a tank is the way to go. The other alternative is for them to make it so that mines are the same but you need a tech lab then you can choose between either a mine or tank when making decisions. You might need to speed up their construction time if you went with tech lab route since current TvZ metagame revolves around making 2 at a time from a factory with a reactor

On October 01 2013 15:46 ETisME wrote:
you need to know if it has no time or no room to innovate
the scene has barely begun and already stagnant and that is the problem.
with bio mine being so strong in all maps against all zerg composition except heavy roach early play, why would you innovate?
taking your logic, if widow mine is released at the nerfed stats, would you not find it ok for widow mine being obsolete too? Why should you complain about the patch consequences because pros can adapt, right?
hell, if you don't give room for pro to try out the new mine, how would you know they won't innovate builds with it? see the logic?

And why you think people are crying for a balance patch is not representing everyone. A tonnes of people including me find bio mine in every TvZ on every map is silly.
Some people who whine about widow mine (also including me) is because widow mine doesn't emphasis on T ability to punish mistake. banelings landmine requires attention to punish terran bio for not scanning, there is a chance for missing opportunity if zerg ain't looking, but not widow mine.
The widow mine hit are targetted by AI automatically. I find it silly to have such a key unit that win/lose the game based upon the AI targetting fire.
you seems to think zerg not used to microing when ling baneling in zvz requires a tonnes of micro. To argue with such a biased opinion just makes me feel sad.

On October 01 2013 15:52 KoinZell wrote:


Just look at ''Scarlett vs Alive'', don't remember which tourney it was, but there shouldn't be too many different videos on youtube about ''Scarlett vs Alive'' from HOTS. Scarlett showed how to beat Bio-mine. No, Bio-mine is only good in the mid-game. If you can keep the terran back enough with muta harass, and than transition into ultra-festor or something.. Than the mines turn useless and you can quite easily defeat the terran army. The thing is not staying on lingbling muta for too long.
And again here's where innovation should come in. Mines are units with huge weakness that can be exploited (Even though pro's have been exploiting those weaknesses for a long time.), lets talk like they haven't been exploited, just for the sake of argument. This is where ''innovation'' should come in. Zerg players need to think up strategies on how to actually make use of the immobility, friendly fire, lock on, low damage of the widowmines. For example maybe the zerg should think up that ''Hmm Ultras are extremely strong against bio, and widowmines can barely scratch them'' and than they could also think that ''Infestors are necessary to keep the terran bio from kiting, so if I lock them down, than this will happen''. There's tons of pros who have thought of that, and that's why terran has also been doing timings, etc to keep the zerg for having a comfortable high tech army.
The patches are still way too frequent, and they're re-working match ups way too quickly.

On October 01 2013 15:46 PineapplePizza wrote:
It seems like even the korean coaches are under the impression that SC2 has the capacity to grow organically, which is absolutely bizzare to me.

The game has too many missing sc1 pieces, and too many heavy elements which utterly dominate strategy. Do people really not think it was a coincidence that virtually every successful TvZ strategy involved hellion pressure? Why do you think PvZ pressure has always been weak or coinflippy? Why do you think TvP has always been double medivac vs sentrycamp into colossi counting and caster duels?

David gets a hell of a lot more attention than he needs. I think this is a Browder problem, and I hope the koreans find out why.

On October 01 2013 16:17 MikeMM wrote:

Guys you completely miss that OOV said earlier in interview.

"Before my military service, I played SC2 a lot. After a while of playing it, I felt nostalgic and loaded up SC1 and had more fun. This is me telling the truth."

He acknowledged that SC2 in its design is inferior to BW.
No matter how much you patch it or no patch at all SC2 will never be as brilliant as BW was.

"The vibe of venues has changed a lot. I saw a girl wandering around in the venue so I thought she was a reporter but turned out to only be a fan. I once saw somebody who I thought was a fan walking around while scraping his slippers along the floor, not picking up his feet. He turned out to be a coach. Things seemed very amateurish(?) but during my two hear hiatus I just figured that these things will be fixed as time goes on."

On October 01 2013 16:18 BigFan wrote:

then you missed the second part:
But after playing HOTS I have not loaded SC1 again. All in all, HOTS is better than WOL
Let's not make this a SCII vs BW thread please.

On October 01 2013 16:23 MikeMM wrote:

I didn’t miss it.
HOTS is better than WOL but not by much.
And since he is coaching HOTS he just couldn’t shit openly on HOTS instead he preferred to complain about patches.

On October 01 2013 16:15 Pursuit_ wrote:


Mines might need a small nerf, though recent stats are showing Zerg doing much better in TvZ, but Tanks need to become much more useful in TvZ if we're ever going to see them. Any premax push with tanks as your sole AoE can be a moved by mass Zerglings and crushed. Even a maxed push can easily die to a moment of inattention / a goog flank. And because Tanks rely so heavily on this 'one big push' syndrome and cost so much gas you have to delay medivacs or upgrades (either not allowing you to put on pressure or delaying your push respectively), Mutas can keep the Terran in their base for long periods of time, slow the push down to a crawl and do severe economic damage (essentially making that push all-in) when the Terran finally moves out before joining with a maxed out ling / bling army to defend that final push. If Widow Mines are nerfed to oblivion as Blizzard wants to do, and the buff to Siege Tanks is only this 3.0 -> 2.7 on attack speed, Terran will have better chances going Hellbats with their main army before Tanks (since Hellbats will actually force Banelings) and the MU will turn heavily in Zerg's favor either way.

Basically, Tanks are never the way to go in TvZ outside of holding off certain all-ins, and in WoL Terran only made them because they were the only thing that stood a chance at killing Infestors. Tanks simply don't do enough AoE to justify their cost and are far too easy to counter.

Edit: And this comes from sombody who loves marine / tank and tried it for a long time vZ and still tries it occassionally hoping it will work. It really just doesn't unfortunately. I really wish Widow Mines would be used as defensive units and Tanks as offensive units, but the way they're currently designed just doesn't allow it.