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On September 25 2013 18:03 Decendos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 17:51 dargul wrote:Ok I siad it wrong. 3mines won't kill any muta with splash. And as for 19banes check read below: Old splash has same size as barrak - 1.75 New splash has size 1.1 reactor have size 1.0 so almost the same. Below is image to show you how many lings\banes it might kill now. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/k1JKg8W.png) so? its not 9? every unit that gets touched by the circle gets also killed = 1 more round of units around the lings/banes. haha okay i stand corrected, its not 19. if the the WM hits in the center its 23!!! rofl. just tested it. no need to discuss the current OPness of WMs. its about how much they should get nerfed OR Z get buffed (imo let WM stay strong and buff Z would be so much better).
You would be surprised how much damage things like storm, colossie, fungle or even siege tanks do in this kind of testing. If you get for the best possible scenario in were the unit is best at you will get this sort of "trololol OP" results.
Luckily its not realistic at all.
I am not arguing wether the WidowMine is op or not i am just saying that this kind of testing doesn't say anything at all in terms of balance.
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Poll: First impression of Oracle buff?
No thumbs (162)
Am I the only one who finds it worrisome that 162 of the participants in this poll have no thumbs?!?
Poll: TL poll participants missing thumbs:Worries me deeply. (16) 36% No thumbs (15) 33% Don't care. (14) 31% 45 total votes Your vote: TL poll participants missing thumbs: (Vote): Worries me deeply.
(Vote): Don't care.
(Vote): No thumbs
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On September 25 2013 18:28 USvBleakill wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 18:03 Decendos wrote:On September 25 2013 17:51 dargul wrote:Ok I siad it wrong. 3mines won't kill any muta with splash. And as for 19banes check read below: Old splash has same size as barrak - 1.75 New splash has size 1.1 reactor have size 1.0 so almost the same. Below is image to show you how many lings\banes it might kill now. so? its not 9? every unit that gets touched by the circle gets also killed = 1 more round of units around the lings/banes. haha okay i stand corrected, its not 19. if the the WM hits in the center its 23!!! rofl. just tested it. no need to discuss the current OPness of WMs. its about how much they should get nerfed OR Z get buffed (imo let WM stay strong and buff Z would be so much better). You would be surprised how much damage things like storm, colossie, fungle or even siege tanks do in this kind of testing. If you get for the best possible scenario in were the unit is best at you will get this sort of "trololol OP" results. Luckily its not realistic at all. I am not arguing wether the WidowMine is op or not i am just saying that this kind of testing doesn't say anything at all in terms of balance.
oh this wasnt an argument to prove WMs are OP (that prove doesnt need to be done anymore), it was to tell the guy that said it hits 9 units at max like on the picture that he is wrong 
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On September 25 2013 03:44 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 03:42 saddaromma wrote:On September 25 2013 03:30 Plansix wrote:On September 25 2013 03:11 Teoita wrote:
So protoss players are just doing builds that get killed by scv trains in an era when the most popular strategy is...the scv train. Makes sense.
You can have a strategy/timing attack that becomes dominant exclusively because the race using it figures out that it's an incredibly powerful build regardless of what the other player is doing, either killing him outright if he's not playing safe against it or at the very least requiring a lot of effort to stop. Roach max, 111, 4gate in pvp back in the day and proper, parting-style soultrains, aggressive 2medivac timings in pvt, are all great examples of that. The race doing it simply figured it was extremely strong no matter what the other guy was doing (or close to it), and it took a long time for the other races to rework their builds around this new powerful timing. The scv trains are just the latest iteration of that. What is your point? You are saying its a powerful all-in and I agreed. I even agreed that some players do it blind. Do you just feel the need to hash out the point endlessly until I admit you are 100% right and my views on the game are 100% incorrect? If so, I can save us both the time and agree to that as well. I think he is trying to explain SCV pull is not a counter specifically vs greedy protoss. SCV pull is a timing window when terran is immensely more powerful than protoss, and if done right protoss has little to no chance to defend it, whatever he was building atm. I agree with Teoita to some degree, but I watched not that many PvTs lately. SCV pulls seem to be strong, but not necessarily op. But from game design perspective, I think scv pull needs to be removed. Its not good for casual spectators, eg. if we want sc2 to grow or to be fun to watch. Yeah, so my statement is correct. I said it was a respond to greed builds, which it can be. Its is also really powerful and sometimes works blind against standard timings. Sounds like every single all strong all in I have ever heard of.
Why would it have anything to do with 2 base greedy builds though? If protoss for instance gets double forge pre 10 minute mark, then wouldn't he actually be even stronger at the 14-15 minute mark (when scv pulls hits) than if he hadn't played "greedy" on 2 bases?
If he had played "safe" on 2 bases, then he would have had slightly more units but worse ups, which in theory should be worse when in big armies (upgrades matter more the larger your army is).
As I see it, this scv pull is super efficient as terran gets such a big supply lead due to 1) Mules and 2) The threat of speedmedivacs which makes taking a fast 3rd very challenging for protoss (on most maps), thus "forces" him to play greedy on 2 bases.
I am not really convinced that you can play a significantly different style where your much better off against the 14 minute scv pull than a "greedy" 2 base style.
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Vatican City State431 Posts
10% to siege tank is a joke..Widowmines would become useless (like the hellbats) and the terran would be f*cked even more. Combined upgrades...whatever the mech units are still crap. The DT buff is complete insanity.
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I would be cool to see a change to Ghost with these supposed changes to Protoss harass.
Change the cost, upgrades or time to make the unit so the Terran (possibly) isn't playing from behind and getting slaughtered in the late game.
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I think we should just change teamliquid into "PollLiquid".
as for balance, not sure the proposed tunneling claws and DT change are balanced. 2base allin with speed tunnel roaches might be the bane of protoss, but speed DT's would be the bane of zerg, as DTs would be faster than overseers until the speed upgrade was researched. gotta play the testmap and see, though
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So... 3.375 speed for DT means that the only thing that can catch it (well.. if you are running behind it :p).
Terran
- Reaper
- Hellion
- Medivac with boost
It wil run at the speed of a steam marine.
Zerg
- Zerglings (with speed).
- Zerglings with no speed ON CREEP (well that's not relevent because speed is going down earlier than dt shrine).
- Banespeed on creep
- Speed Roach on creep
- Hydra on creep (not sure as i don't quite understand the LP page for that)
- Ultralisk
- Mutalisk
- Broodlings
Protoss
- Prism with speed
- Phoenix
Same speed
- Dark templar
- Oracle.
So zerg can't complain i think (i'm zerg and hate dt).
DT would be super strong against protoss. Because nothing can catch it basicly
Same for terran. No ?
Also i like the WM nerf but... this seems like you are going to go from OS, 20glings/banes to .. 5. Maybe ?
Seems a bit drastic especially for mutas harass.. but that will make the terrans turret again.
ST will be better that WM. I feel it's kind of overlaping units. No ?
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On September 25 2013 19:46 FFW_Rude wrote:
So... 3.375 speed for DT means that the only thing that can catch it (well.. if you are running behind it :p).
Terran
- Reaper
- Hellion
- Medivac with boost
It wil run at the speed of a steam marine.
Zerg
- Zerglings (with speed).
- Zerglings with no speed ON CREEP (well that's not relevent because speed is going down earlier than dt shrine).
- Banespeed on creep
- Speed Roach on creep
- Hydra on creep (not sure as i don't quite understand the LP page for that)
- Ultralisk
- Mutalisk
- Broodlings
Protoss
- Prism with speed
- Phoenix
Same speed
- Dark templar
- Oracle.
So zerg can't complain i think (i'm zerg and hate dt).
DT would be super strong against protoss. Because nothing can catch it basicly
Same for terran. No ?
Also i like the WM nerf but... this seems like you are going to go from OS, 20glings/banes to .. 5. Maybe ?
Seems a bit drastic especially for mutas harass.. but that will make the terrans turret again.
ST will be better that WM. I feel it's kind of overlaping units. No ?
For a 1000th times why should you be chasing DTs? you need to scare them off with static defense:
P: Cannons.
T: PF or WM + turret.
Z: Spore+spinecrawler.
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On September 25 2013 20:16 saddaromma wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 19:46 FFW_Rude wrote:
So... 3.375 speed for DT means that the only thing that can catch it (well.. if you are running behind it :p).
Terran
- Reaper
- Hellion
- Medivac with boost
It wil run at the speed of a steam marine.
Zerg
- Zerglings (with speed).
- Zerglings with no speed ON CREEP (well that's not relevent because speed is going down earlier than dt shrine).
- Banespeed on creep
- Speed Roach on creep
- Hydra on creep (not sure as i don't quite understand the LP page for that)
- Ultralisk
- Mutalisk
- Broodlings
Protoss
- Prism with speed
- Phoenix
Same speed
- Dark templar
- Oracle.
So zerg can't complain i think (i'm zerg and hate dt).
DT would be super strong against protoss. Because nothing can catch it basicly
Same for terran. No ?
Also i like the WM nerf but... this seems like you are going to go from OS, 20glings/banes to .. 5. Maybe ?
Seems a bit drastic especially for mutas harass.. but that will make the terrans turret again.
ST will be better that WM. I feel it's kind of overlaping units. No ? For a 1000th times why should you be chasing DTs? you need to scare them off with static defense: P: Cannons. T: PF or WM + turret. Z: Spore+spinecrawler.
Yeah, complaining about not being able to catch a harassing unit is weird. Its like protoss complaining that only one unit can catch a muta.
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On September 25 2013 17:44 Decendos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 17:28 dargul wrote:On September 25 2013 17:19 Sapphire.lux wrote:
I hope bio mine remains viable in TvZ. The game needs more strategies to be viable not simply artificially altering the meta every time Blizz feels like it.
The mech changes are interesting but i worry about Mutas against the nerfed mine and, the Tank buff looks tiny. before patch mine can kill 10banes\lings now it can kill 3-4... Your 3mine most likely will kill 0-1mutas even without zerg control. So yey we all can go play mech it's so powerfull now... 3 mines will always kill 3 mutas if Z doesnt control since 1 mine oneshots 1 muta. also it wasnt 10 banes/lings and now 3-4. it was 19 (!!!!) lings banes and now its 11...so its still basically impossible for a WM to be not very cost efficient. which is fine. a unit being insanely cost efficient whatever the opponent does is really bad design...they just fixed that although i wouldve liked it more if they let WM stay the same and just finally buff stuff like hydras or ovidrop or nydus to help Z in TvZ.
I guess you haven't seen any progames recently. More than half of all widowmines in TvZ get killed by mutaflocks before they go off, or are baited by a few zerglings into a bunch of marines to do friendly fire.
A hit that kills 19 lings/banelings is just not realistic since a) they would all have to be clumped up and b) the terran needs to manually target the unit in the middle of the clump, or otherwise the closest unit will be attacked.
And when was the last time we saw a flock of mutalisks get hit by 4 mines? You need 4 mines for the splash damage to kill any (unhurt) mutalisks since they have 120 health and a widow mine does 40 damage. So if they are hit by 3 mines, they'll instantly regenerate 1 health.
On September 25 2013 20:16 saddaromma wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 19:46 FFW_Rude wrote:
So... 3.375 speed for DT means that the only thing that can catch it (well.. if you are running behind it :p).
Terran
- Reaper
- Hellion
- Medivac with boost
It wil run at the speed of a steam marine.
Zerg
- Zerglings (with speed).
- Zerglings with no speed ON CREEP (well that's not relevent because speed is going down earlier than dt shrine).
- Banespeed on creep
- Speed Roach on creep
- Hydra on creep (not sure as i don't quite understand the LP page for that)
- Ultralisk
- Mutalisk
- Broodlings
Protoss
- Prism with speed
- Phoenix
Same speed
- Dark templar
- Oracle.
So zerg can't complain i think (i'm zerg and hate dt).
DT would be super strong against protoss. Because nothing can catch it basicly
Same for terran. No ?
Also i like the WM nerf but... this seems like you are going to go from OS, 20glings/banes to .. 5. Maybe ?
Seems a bit drastic especially for mutas harass.. but that will make the terrans turret again.
ST will be better that WM. I feel it's kind of overlaping units. No ? For a 1000th times why should you be chasing DTs? you need to scare them off with static defense: P: Cannons. T: PF or WM + turret. Z: Spore+spinecrawler.
Because a dead DT is better than a living DT or potential Archon.
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On September 25 2013 20:18 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 20:16 saddaromma wrote:On September 25 2013 19:46 FFW_Rude wrote:
So... 3.375 speed for DT means that the only thing that can catch it (well.. if you are running behind it :p).
Terran
- Reaper
- Hellion
- Medivac with boost
It wil run at the speed of a steam marine.
Zerg
- Zerglings (with speed).
- Zerglings with no speed ON CREEP (well that's not relevent because speed is going down earlier than dt shrine).
- Banespeed on creep
- Speed Roach on creep
- Hydra on creep (not sure as i don't quite understand the LP page for that)
- Ultralisk
- Mutalisk
- Broodlings
Protoss
- Prism with speed
- Phoenix
Same speed
- Dark templar
- Oracle.
So zerg can't complain i think (i'm zerg and hate dt).
DT would be super strong against protoss. Because nothing can catch it basicly
Same for terran. No ?
Also i like the WM nerf but... this seems like you are going to go from OS, 20glings/banes to .. 5. Maybe ?
Seems a bit drastic especially for mutas harass.. but that will make the terrans turret again.
ST will be better that WM. I feel it's kind of overlaping units. No ? For a 1000th times why should you be chasing DTs? you need to scare them off with static defense: P: Cannons. T: PF or WM + turret. Z: Spore+spinecrawler. Yeah, complaining about not being able to catch a harassing unit is weird. Its like protoss complaining that only one unit can catch a muta.
Its now officially the blademaster. Windwalk out of there, just perm 
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On September 25 2013 20:23 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 20:18 Plansix wrote:On September 25 2013 20:16 saddaromma wrote:On September 25 2013 19:46 FFW_Rude wrote:
So... 3.375 speed for DT means that the only thing that can catch it (well.. if you are running behind it :p).
Terran
- Reaper
- Hellion
- Medivac with boost
It wil run at the speed of a steam marine.
Zerg
- Zerglings (with speed).
- Zerglings with no speed ON CREEP (well that's not relevent because speed is going down earlier than dt shrine).
- Banespeed on creep
- Speed Roach on creep
- Hydra on creep (not sure as i don't quite understand the LP page for that)
- Ultralisk
- Mutalisk
- Broodlings
Protoss
- Prism with speed
- Phoenix
Same speed
- Dark templar
- Oracle.
So zerg can't complain i think (i'm zerg and hate dt).
DT would be super strong against protoss. Because nothing can catch it basicly
Same for terran. No ?
Also i like the WM nerf but... this seems like you are going to go from OS, 20glings/banes to .. 5. Maybe ?
Seems a bit drastic especially for mutas harass.. but that will make the terrans turret again.
ST will be better that WM. I feel it's kind of overlaping units. No ? For a 1000th times why should you be chasing DTs? you need to scare them off with static defense: P: Cannons. T: PF or WM + turret. Z: Spore+spinecrawler. Yeah, complaining about not being able to catch a harassing unit is weird. Its like protoss complaining that only one unit can catch a muta. Its now officially the blademaster. Windwalk out of there, just perm Except its a test map and it will likely go slower than that if it makes it into the game.
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On September 25 2013 20:25 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 20:23 NarutO wrote:On September 25 2013 20:18 Plansix wrote:On September 25 2013 20:16 saddaromma wrote:On September 25 2013 19:46 FFW_Rude wrote:
So... 3.375 speed for DT means that the only thing that can catch it (well.. if you are running behind it :p).
Terran
- Reaper
- Hellion
- Medivac with boost
It wil run at the speed of a steam marine.
Zerg
- Zerglings (with speed).
- Zerglings with no speed ON CREEP (well that's not relevent because speed is going down earlier than dt shrine).
- Banespeed on creep
- Speed Roach on creep
- Hydra on creep (not sure as i don't quite understand the LP page for that)
- Ultralisk
- Mutalisk
- Broodlings
Protoss
- Prism with speed
- Phoenix
Same speed
- Dark templar
- Oracle.
So zerg can't complain i think (i'm zerg and hate dt).
DT would be super strong against protoss. Because nothing can catch it basicly
Same for terran. No ?
Also i like the WM nerf but... this seems like you are going to go from OS, 20glings/banes to .. 5. Maybe ?
Seems a bit drastic especially for mutas harass.. but that will make the terrans turret again.
ST will be better that WM. I feel it's kind of overlaping units. No ? For a 1000th times why should you be chasing DTs? you need to scare them off with static defense: P: Cannons. T: PF or WM + turret. Z: Spore+spinecrawler. Yeah, complaining about not being able to catch a harassing unit is weird. Its like protoss complaining that only one unit can catch a muta. Its now officially the blademaster. Windwalk out of there, just perm Except its a test map and it will likely go slower than that if it makes it into the game.
It won't make it into the game, it would be the biggest joke ever
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On September 25 2013 20:23 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 20:18 Plansix wrote:On September 25 2013 20:16 saddaromma wrote:On September 25 2013 19:46 FFW_Rude wrote:
So... 3.375 speed for DT means that the only thing that can catch it (well.. if you are running behind it :p).
Terran
- Reaper
- Hellion
- Medivac with boost
It wil run at the speed of a steam marine.
Zerg
- Zerglings (with speed).
- Zerglings with no speed ON CREEP (well that's not relevent because speed is going down earlier than dt shrine).
- Banespeed on creep
- Speed Roach on creep
- Hydra on creep (not sure as i don't quite understand the LP page for that)
- Ultralisk
- Mutalisk
- Broodlings
Protoss
- Prism with speed
- Phoenix
Same speed
- Dark templar
- Oracle.
So zerg can't complain i think (i'm zerg and hate dt).
DT would be super strong against protoss. Because nothing can catch it basicly
Same for terran. No ?
Also i like the WM nerf but... this seems like you are going to go from OS, 20glings/banes to .. 5. Maybe ?
Seems a bit drastic especially for mutas harass.. but that will make the terrans turret again.
ST will be better that WM. I feel it's kind of overlaping units. No ? For a 1000th times why should you be chasing DTs? you need to scare them off with static defense: P: Cannons. T: PF or WM + turret. Z: Spore+spinecrawler. Yeah, complaining about not being able to catch a harassing unit is weird. Its like protoss complaining that only one unit can catch a muta. Its now officially the blademaster. Windwalk out of there, just perm
Except he can't steal fat creeps and items.
I wouldn't mind if they made DT do 100 dmg and run at 5.0 speed, it still sucks vs detection and in straight up fight for its cost. Therefore I don't see point at complaining. Ofc terrans need to be efficient with scans, but how about making some simcity with supply depots, too lazy for that?
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DT change because...
...there could be more interesting interactions, such as dodging out of detection range more often
Either detection is out or not. The only "dodge" i could think of are scans. If the toss plays dt vs t he either fire and forget or he micro them. In second case he will sometimes dodge. Don´t know why they should get more speed.
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On September 25 2013 20:29 saddaromma wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 20:23 NarutO wrote:On September 25 2013 20:18 Plansix wrote:On September 25 2013 20:16 saddaromma wrote:On September 25 2013 19:46 FFW_Rude wrote:
So... 3.375 speed for DT means that the only thing that can catch it (well.. if you are running behind it :p).
Terran
- Reaper
- Hellion
- Medivac with boost
It wil run at the speed of a steam marine.
Zerg
- Zerglings (with speed).
- Zerglings with no speed ON CREEP (well that's not relevent because speed is going down earlier than dt shrine).
- Banespeed on creep
- Speed Roach on creep
- Hydra on creep (not sure as i don't quite understand the LP page for that)
- Ultralisk
- Mutalisk
- Broodlings
Protoss
- Prism with speed
- Phoenix
Same speed
- Dark templar
- Oracle.
So zerg can't complain i think (i'm zerg and hate dt).
DT would be super strong against protoss. Because nothing can catch it basicly
Same for terran. No ?
Also i like the WM nerf but... this seems like you are going to go from OS, 20glings/banes to .. 5. Maybe ?
Seems a bit drastic especially for mutas harass.. but that will make the terrans turret again.
ST will be better that WM. I feel it's kind of overlaping units. No ? For a 1000th times why should you be chasing DTs? you need to scare them off with static defense: P: Cannons. T: PF or WM + turret. Z: Spore+spinecrawler. Yeah, complaining about not being able to catch a harassing unit is weird. Its like protoss complaining that only one unit can catch a muta. Its now officially the blademaster. Windwalk out of there, just perm Except he can't steal fat creeps and items. I wouldn't mind if they made DT do 100 dmg and run at 5.0 speed, it still sucks vs detection and in straight up fight for its cost. Therefore I don't see point at complaining. Ofc terrans need to be efficient with scans, but how about making some simcity with supply depots, too lazy for that?
Thats what Terrans are doing. Sim city with supplies / bunker, turrets in mineral line to surround with workers, but if DTs are as fast as stimmed bio, running out of a scan is already enough damage to make the dt worthwhile. Actually forcing a scan makes it valueable so getting away is huge. Now getting away is pretty easy and not increasing any skill needed.
There is no need to buff Protoss in its current state.
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On September 25 2013 20:30 Nachtwind wrote:DT change because... Show nested quote +...there could be more interesting interactions, such as dodging out of detection range more often Either detection is out or not. The only "dodge" i could think of are scans. If the toss plays dt vs t he either fire and forget or he micro them. In second case he will sometimes dodge. Don´t know why they should get more speed.
To be able to do guaranteed damage (like banshees). Sometimes DTs get to mineral lines and manage to kill only couple of SCVs, when It should've killed at least 5-6 considering investment and the risk.
On September 25 2013 20:34 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 20:29 saddaromma wrote:On September 25 2013 20:23 NarutO wrote:On September 25 2013 20:18 Plansix wrote:On September 25 2013 20:16 saddaromma wrote:On September 25 2013 19:46 FFW_Rude wrote:
So... 3.375 speed for DT means that the only thing that can catch it (well.. if you are running behind it :p).
Terran
- Reaper
- Hellion
- Medivac with boost
It wil run at the speed of a steam marine.
Zerg
- Zerglings (with speed).
- Zerglings with no speed ON CREEP (well that's not relevent because speed is going down earlier than dt shrine).
- Banespeed on creep
- Speed Roach on creep
- Hydra on creep (not sure as i don't quite understand the LP page for that)
- Ultralisk
- Mutalisk
- Broodlings
Protoss
- Prism with speed
- Phoenix
Same speed
- Dark templar
- Oracle.
So zerg can't complain i think (i'm zerg and hate dt).
DT would be super strong against protoss. Because nothing can catch it basicly
Same for terran. No ?
Also i like the WM nerf but... this seems like you are going to go from OS, 20glings/banes to .. 5. Maybe ?
Seems a bit drastic especially for mutas harass.. but that will make the terrans turret again.
ST will be better that WM. I feel it's kind of overlaping units. No ? For a 1000th times why should you be chasing DTs? you need to scare them off with static defense: P: Cannons. T: PF or WM + turret. Z: Spore+spinecrawler. Yeah, complaining about not being able to catch a harassing unit is weird. Its like protoss complaining that only one unit can catch a muta. Its now officially the blademaster. Windwalk out of there, just perm Except he can't steal fat creeps and items. I wouldn't mind if they made DT do 100 dmg and run at 5.0 speed, it still sucks vs detection and in straight up fight for its cost. Therefore I don't see point at complaining. Ofc terrans need to be efficient with scans, but how about making some simcity with supply depots, too lazy for that? Thats what Terrans are doing. Sim city with supplies / bunker, turrets in mineral line to surround with workers, but if DTs are as fast as stimmed bio, running out of a scan is already enough damage to make the dt worthwhile. Actually forcing a scan makes it valueable so getting away is huge. Now getting away is pretty easy and not increasing any skill needed. There is no need to buff Protoss in its current state.
Yeah, ofc. Naruto TM.
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On September 25 2013 20:25 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 20:23 NarutO wrote:On September 25 2013 20:18 Plansix wrote:On September 25 2013 20:16 saddaromma wrote:On September 25 2013 19:46 FFW_Rude wrote:
So... 3.375 speed for DT means that the only thing that can catch it (well.. if you are running behind it :p).
Terran
- Reaper
- Hellion
- Medivac with boost
It wil run at the speed of a steam marine.
Zerg
- Zerglings (with speed).
- Zerglings with no speed ON CREEP (well that's not relevent because speed is going down earlier than dt shrine).
- Banespeed on creep
- Speed Roach on creep
- Hydra on creep (not sure as i don't quite understand the LP page for that)
- Ultralisk
- Mutalisk
- Broodlings
Protoss
- Prism with speed
- Phoenix
Same speed
- Dark templar
- Oracle.
So zerg can't complain i think (i'm zerg and hate dt).
DT would be super strong against protoss. Because nothing can catch it basicly
Same for terran. No ?
Also i like the WM nerf but... this seems like you are going to go from OS, 20glings/banes to .. 5. Maybe ?
Seems a bit drastic especially for mutas harass.. but that will make the terrans turret again.
ST will be better that WM. I feel it's kind of overlaping units. No ? For a 1000th times why should you be chasing DTs? you need to scare them off with static defense: P: Cannons. T: PF or WM + turret. Z: Spore+spinecrawler. Yeah, complaining about not being able to catch a harassing unit is weird. Its like protoss complaining that only one unit can catch a muta. Its now officially the blademaster. Windwalk out of there, just perm Except its a test map and it will likely go slower than that if it makes it into the game.
Extremely unlikely. Blizzard works with fixed unit speeds.
DT moves at worker speed = 2.8125
The next higher speed is 2.9531 (Stalker speed), but that's so negligible, they won't do that.
The next higher speed is 3.375 (stimpack speed, oracle speed) which is what they proposed.
Blizzard won't create a new speed inbetween.
On September 25 2013 20:36 saddaromma wrote:
Sometimes DTs get to mineral lines and manage to kill only couple of SCVs, when It should've killed at least 5-6 considering investment and the risk.
That's what the word "risk" means. You are not entitled to do guaranteed damage.
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On September 25 2013 20:16 saddaromma wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 19:46 FFW_Rude wrote:
So... 3.375 speed for DT means that the only thing that can catch it (well.. if you are running behind it :p).
Terran
- Reaper
- Hellion
- Medivac with boost
It wil run at the speed of a steam marine.
Zerg
- Zerglings (with speed).
- Zerglings with no speed ON CREEP (well that's not relevent because speed is going down earlier than dt shrine).
- Banespeed on creep
- Speed Roach on creep
- Hydra on creep (not sure as i don't quite understand the LP page for that)
- Ultralisk
- Mutalisk
- Broodlings
Protoss
- Prism with speed
- Phoenix
Same speed
- Dark templar
- Oracle.
So zerg can't complain i think (i'm zerg and hate dt).
DT would be super strong against protoss. Because nothing can catch it basicly
Same for terran. No ?
Also i like the WM nerf but... this seems like you are going to go from OS, 20glings/banes to .. 5. Maybe ?
Seems a bit drastic especially for mutas harass.. but that will make the terrans turret again.
ST will be better that WM. I feel it's kind of overlaping units. No ? For a 1000th times why should you be chasing DTs? you need to scare them off with static defense: P: Cannons. T: PF or WM + turret. Z: Spore+spinecrawler.
cause I've never seen DTs (or Zealot + DTs) run into a mineral line and destroy the detection. Just watch how well Elfi and Welmu already use DT's and now imagine if they are as fast as stimmed bio!!
Protoss already has the best late game harass with chargelot warp-ins, why are they trying to buff the early game 'all-in' options?
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EPT
