• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:00
CEST 22:00
KST 05:00
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL47Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates9GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th13Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0EWC 2025 Regional Qualifier Results26
StarCraft 2
General
CN community: Firefly accused of suspicious activities Firefly do had match fixing The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports? Serious Question: Mech
Tourneys
$3,500 WardiTV European League 2025 Bellum Gens Elite: Stara Zagora 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans? BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Mihu vs Korea Players Statistics BW General Discussion [BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals NA Team League 6/8/2025 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 2
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread What do you want from future RTS games? Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Cognitive styles x game perf…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Poker
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 22340 users

Ladder Deflation and MMR Decay - Page 7

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 33 Next All
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
October 18 2013 16:31 GMT
#121
If you win a match sometime in your first month in iccup you should definitely show talent for BW.

But I guess that's why BW was only big in Korea and Warcraft 3 took over the rest of the world of RTS.
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
October 21 2013 00:09 GMT
#122
Wow, just had a huge freak of nature. Somehow Bnet thinks it's a good idea to pit me, a high gold player, against a mid master player. Not sure how it happened, but I sure felt like on the receiving end in one of those trollgames...
Slydie
Profile Joined August 2013
1913 Posts
October 21 2013 07:03 GMT
#123
I have always been in Gold meague, but I just started getting some nice help from some master/gm terrans, and won some games vs. current plats with past diamond finishes! Maybe there is hope?

The only good thing with this is that any promotion is deserved for sure!
Buff the siegetank
Juice!
Profile Joined January 2011
Belgium295 Posts
October 21 2013 07:17 GMT
#124
About MMR. Does anyone know how long it takes (or how many seasons) for it to reset completely?
My last solo game was somewhere in last season, havn't played solo in this one. I'm wondering 'caus I recently found some joy again in SC2 and I want to start fresh with a new race, but i imagine starting a new race with my "old" master mmr is going to be a huge pain. So i was/am hoping there is some sort of timer of inactivity (in solo) after which your mmr resets and you get 5 placements all over again (and the possibility to be placed in silver/gold)
Second place is just a fancy term for loser
Cascade
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Australia5405 Posts
October 21 2013 07:21 GMT
#125
On October 21 2013 16:17 Juice! wrote:
About MMR. Does anyone know how long it takes (or how many seasons) for it to reset completely?
My last solo game was somewhere in last season, havn't played solo in this one. I'm wondering 'caus I recently found some joy again in SC2 and I want to start fresh with a new race, but i imagine starting a new race with my "old" master mmr is going to be a huge pain. So i was/am hoping there is some sort of timer of inactivity (in solo) after which your mmr resets and you get 5 placements all over again (and the possibility to be placed in silver/gold)

in OP:
On September 21 2013 07:05 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Also note that the existing MMR lookup rule applies: if you are inactive for an entire season (that is, you stop playing in Season n, you play no games--ranked or unranked--during Season n+1, you come back for Season n+2), your MMR is wiped clean.

Chaggi
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)1936 Posts
October 21 2013 07:28 GMT
#126
On October 21 2013 09:09 JustPassingBy wrote:
Wow, just had a huge freak of nature. Somehow Bnet thinks it's a good idea to pit me, a high gold player, against a mid master player. Not sure how it happened, but I sure felt like on the receiving end in one of those trollgames...


If I'm on the other side of that, and I'm playing unranked, I'll basically always leave unless they BM me.
Juice!
Profile Joined January 2011
Belgium295 Posts
October 21 2013 07:34 GMT
#127
On October 21 2013 16:21 Cascade wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2013 16:17 Juice! wrote:
About MMR. Does anyone know how long it takes (or how many seasons) for it to reset completely?
My last solo game was somewhere in last season, havn't played solo in this one. I'm wondering 'caus I recently found some joy again in SC2 and I want to start fresh with a new race, but i imagine starting a new race with my "old" master mmr is going to be a huge pain. So i was/am hoping there is some sort of timer of inactivity (in solo) after which your mmr resets and you get 5 placements all over again (and the possibility to be placed in silver/gold)

in OP:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2013 07:05 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Also note that the existing MMR lookup rule applies: if you are inactive for an entire season (that is, you stop playing in Season n, you play no games--ranked or unranked--during Season n+1, you come back for Season n+2), your MMR is wiped clean.



Yeah i read that, but it got me wondering, does this apply to 'not play ANY SOLO' or 'not play ANY GAME at all'
Second place is just a fancy term for loser
FFW_Rude
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France10201 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-21 08:10:38
October 21 2013 08:09 GMT
#128
On October 19 2013 01:07 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
You aren't ever going to face gold/plat players ever with 200+ apm. They don't exist in any significant numbers. You are just imagining it. You are silver. Even matches don't feel like they happen.Small differences are blown up to large differences because Silver.


Nope I faced some. Didn't imagined it I'm silver because i switched race. I was plat before (and i didn't have 200+ apm that's for sure. 150 maybe not much more). And when you watch the profile you see "highest rank" sometime master or diamond

I'm not imagining it Maybe but luck to have a lot of games against them though because yes i'm sure there's not a whole lot of them.
#1 KT Rolster fanboy. KT BEST KT ! Hail to KT playoffs Zergs ! Unofficial french translator for SlayerS_`Boxer` biography "Crazy as me".
Excalibur_Z
Profile Joined October 2002
United States12235 Posts
October 21 2013 16:04 GMT
#129
On October 21 2013 16:34 Juice! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 21 2013 16:21 Cascade wrote:
On October 21 2013 16:17 Juice! wrote:
About MMR. Does anyone know how long it takes (or how many seasons) for it to reset completely?
My last solo game was somewhere in last season, havn't played solo in this one. I'm wondering 'caus I recently found some joy again in SC2 and I want to start fresh with a new race, but i imagine starting a new race with my "old" master mmr is going to be a huge pain. So i was/am hoping there is some sort of timer of inactivity (in solo) after which your mmr resets and you get 5 placements all over again (and the possibility to be placed in silver/gold)

in OP:
On September 21 2013 07:05 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Also note that the existing MMR lookup rule applies: if you are inactive for an entire season (that is, you stop playing in Season n, you play no games--ranked or unranked--during Season n+1, you come back for Season n+2), your MMR is wiped clean.



Yeah i read that, but it got me wondering, does this apply to 'not play ANY SOLO' or 'not play ANY GAME at all'


There are two MMR brackets: Arranged Team (but it's separate per team) and 1v1+Random Team. If you want your MMR to reset for a particular bracket then you have to go for a full season without playing any games in that bracket. That means if you want your 1v1 MMR to reset, don't play any 1v1 or Random Team games next season.
Moderator
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
October 22 2013 21:10 GMT
#130
Seriously, as a Gold player I hit three masters players over the course of the last two days I played, none of the game was remotely close and it ended up with them stomping all over me... What on earth is going on, it really is no fun like this. I know I am a bad player, but can't Bnet seed me against other bad players?
korona
Profile Joined October 2009
1098 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-23 09:44:52
October 23 2013 08:29 GMT
#131
On October 23 2013 06:10 JustPassingBy wrote:
Seriously, as a Gold player I hit three masters players over the course of the last two days I played, none of the game was remotely close and it ended up with them stomping all over me... What on earth is going on, it really is no fun like this. I know I am a bad player, but can't Bnet seed me against other bad players?

The matchmaker still works fine, but ... if e.g. a master skill level player has a gold MMR, then the matchmaker thinks he is gold level player. And that player is then matched with other players with similar MMR. MMR is a skill rating, but as the decay mechanism is tampering players' MMR directly & considerably, it often does not present skill anymore. Nowadays it seems to be a 'Wild West' whom you are matched against due MMR decay. And you do not anymore know the typical skill level of your typical opponents in the beginning of the match. For example one week ago I faced a multiple times grandmaster with mid-platinum MMR on EU server (he was playing ranked). His MMR had been decayed. Needless to say I was crushed.
ktimekiller
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States690 Posts
October 23 2013 09:25 GMT
#132
I think it may be easy to blame deflation, but in some cases (mine for example), my inconsistent use of unranked means that I will be guaranteed to play significantly worse players. In addition, many of my acquaintances used unranked to offrace, or even left games voluntarily leading to huge disparity in skills between the players.
ThunderGod
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
New Zealand897 Posts
October 26 2013 12:20 GMT
#133
I skipped a couple of seasons so I assume my MMR got wiped as it placed me back in gold for 2v2R (was Master previously).
It takes a retarded amount of time to build it back up though :/ 45-11 and I'm still in plat facing gold/plat players (just played first diamond opponent). I got promoted to plat after around 25 games but no further promotions as yet - despite going 24-4 in last 28 games...
I think 30 games should be enough to get MMR back to where it should be, not 60+ as in my case (yeah I lost a few games but random allies with 20apm so what can you do..)
/end rant
"Certain forms of popular music nowadays, namely rap and hip hop styles, are just irritating gangsters bragging about their illegal exploits and short-sighted lifestyles." - Shiverfish ~2009
Thieving Magpie
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States6752 Posts
October 26 2013 15:30 GMT
#134
On October 26 2013 21:20 ThunderGod wrote:
I skipped a couple of seasons so I assume my MMR got wiped as it placed me back in gold for 2v2R (was Master previously).
It takes a retarded amount of time to build it back up though :/ 45-11 and I'm still in plat facing gold/plat players (just played first diamond opponent). I got promoted to plat after around 25 games but no further promotions as yet - despite going 24-4 in last 28 games...
I think 30 games should be enough to get MMR back to where it should be, not 60+ as in my case (yeah I lost a few games but random allies with 20apm so what can you do..)
/end rant


Sounding like a true LoL player

Do you tell your allies to stop feeding?

+ Show Spoiler +
j/k of course, MMR decay results in some silly things lol
Hark, what baseball through yonder window breaks?
Eatme
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
Switzerland3919 Posts
October 26 2013 15:55 GMT
#135
On October 19 2013 00:38 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 18 2013 22:01 KOtical wrote:
i noticed this also , but didnt knew it for sure. now its kinda official and i think this kind of system is a slap in the face for all the none pro gamers/working people. Im doing a job 5 days a week i gotta work 9 hours everyday, and after that period of time i cant play every evening. so they invented the bonus point system for players like me that can´t be that active. so now with this change the whole bonus point system seems useless... thx blizzard for ruining my expirience as a casual starcraft 2 player... either u can play ladder everyday and u stay up ur league or ur not that active and have to climb up leages after each season wich ist just frustrating....
if it stays like that i say ladder goodbye...


To be fair, you don't have to play every day. The decay system isn't nearly that severe.

Show nested quote +
On October 18 2013 22:10 Topdoller wrote:
I agree with this, there should be a hard cap on how low a player from the top divisions can drop.


There is, for each instance of decay. It's roughly one league. Unless you meant "Once-Master players should never drop below Diamond ever for any reason" which is more of an opinion.

While my example is from teamgames I dont really agree that from diamond with good stats to silver is "roughly one league".
I have the best fucking lawyers in the country including the man they call the Malmis.
anessie
Profile Joined August 2011
180 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-26 16:45:12
October 26 2013 16:42 GMT
#136
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2013 00:55 Eatme wrote:
On October 18 2013 22:10 Topdoller wrote:
I agree with this, there should be a hard cap on how low a player from the top divisions can drop.


There is, for each instance of decay. It's roughly one league. Unless you meant "Once-Master players should never drop below Diamond ever for any reason" which is more of an opinion.

While my example is from teamgames I dont really agree that from diamond with good stats to silver is "roughly one league".


Indeed and then you get paired with people who have 8 games on their account ever and building their first pylon 2 minutes into the game to go for the 12 minute 3 voidray "rush". Thanks Blizzard.
Moonsalt
Profile Joined May 2011
267 Posts
October 26 2013 16:52 GMT
#137
I haven't played for 2 months and used to be diamond. After the first match they placed me in bronze......after countless wins and 0 losses now I'm stuck in gold with players that are "lower level" than me and I'm still winning every single game IT IS REALLY ANNOYING
Cascade
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Australia5405 Posts
October 27 2013 00:42 GMT
#138
I play mainly team games (AT) and with a bit different teams every time. So that means that each specific team combination plays very rarely. Lately we have been matched against very weak opponents (even weaker than us!), and go like 10-1 or so every session. I guess it is because our MMR for that team has decayed. Anyway, pretty annoying to play team on a lower level all the time, and I'm sure they are not enjoying it either. :/
Eregos
Profile Joined July 2013
United States34 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-27 13:28:31
October 27 2013 13:10 GMT
#139
WOW. this explains why the league system has been such a disaster recently. I made some lengthy posts about the league system back in the summer, which were predicated on the fact that there supposedly wasn't MMR decay, which led me to alternative explanations for why the system had been performing so poorly.

I can't make a concrete case that this newly-discovered (in the past couple months, since I checked last) MMR decay is the cause of ALL of the problems, since there are still other problems, but it seems clear that it is devastating for a player like me, because I like to play lots of team games brackets only a little bit - almost always less than 30 games per season. When combined with the fact that the system was still tracking my total matches played (which was fairly high) from previous seasons, this explains why it took hundreds of games in 2v2 3v3 and 4v4 last season at a very high win rate (85%+) to get back to where I belonged in Wings of Liberty.

I had been confused by this explanation at first, until I read above that crucially your 1v1+random team MMR is linked together and isn't reset unless you don't play ANY 1v1+random team games for an entire season. Well, hehehe, that has never ever happened for me since Sc2 came out in 2010, I've always ranked in at least one of them. That means that I've been dragging along this massive anchor of games played for the past 3 years. Combine this with the midseason demotion freeze putting everyone a league lower initially. Assuming it is also true that your MMR decays at the same rate regardless of the total number of games that comprise your MMR, then it makes complete sense that I would have trouble getting promoted in WOL, since I was unfairly downgraded to silver/bronze while still being saddled with hundreds of games comprising my MMR, making the system *falsely* confident that I was where I belonged. No wonder promotion took hundreds of games last season.

In short, the ranking system has turned into a World of Warcraft-style Grinding system, requiring constant player activity in order to maintain their leagues rather than simply being a reflection of player skill. This would be mostly okay if a player's entire match history was forgotten , but it usually isn't which leads to people like me being stuck in a low league they don't belong in, requiring them to grind each season for a promotion. In the meantime, I get matched against people who have no chance against me, which is a frustrating thing for them and a bit boring for me. Simply put, this is terrible design, and almost certainly contributes to the many complaints threads on battle.net of people getting unfair matches.

I don't think erasing the whole match history (from blizzard's database that does rankings) is a good idea unless the player hasn't played for at least 1 full season. There is so much more to say about this but I'll stop here for now.
iPhoneAppz
Profile Joined March 2013
United States37 Posts
October 27 2013 13:38 GMT
#140
On October 27 2013 01:52 Moonsalt wrote:
I haven't played for 2 months and used to be diamond. After the first match they placed me in bronze......after countless wins and 0 losses now I'm stuck in gold with players that are "lower level" than me and I'm still winning every single game IT IS REALLY ANNOYING


Imagine how annoying it is for the people that you're crushing that really belong in those leagues. Blizzard needs to consider former league achievements in determining you're MMR confidence.
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 33 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 1m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
UpATreeSC 100
EnDerr 50
MindelVK 46
StarCraft: Brood War
Horang2 578
firebathero 133
Dewaltoss 97
yabsab 19
Movie 10
Counter-Strike
fl0m6359
olofmeister2269
rGuardiaN120
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King75
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu706
Other Games
tarik_tv52880
gofns22000
summit1g7566
Grubby921
Beastyqt773
ceh9535
B2W.Neo490
mouzStarbuck389
Pyrionflax142
ZombieGrub99
Trikslyr61
QueenE60
BRAT_OK 33
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream4275
Other Games
BasetradeTV97
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 22 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 327
• Adnapsc2 32
• Reevou 5
• Hupsaiya 4
• Dystopia_ 2
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki20
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21599
• Ler142
League of Legends
• TFBlade1327
Other Games
• imaqtpie1459
• Scarra753
• Shiphtur348
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
4h 1m
Replay Cast
14h 1m
WardiTV Invitational
15h 1m
WardiTV Invitational
15h 1m
PiGosaur Monday
1d 4h
GSL Code S
1d 13h
Rogue vs GuMiho
Maru vs Solar
Online Event
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
GSL Code S
2 days
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Bunny
The PondCast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
OSC
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Cheesadelphia
4 days
GSL Code S
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.