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On September 19 2013 06:29 Otolia wrote:
It's funny to see NA citizens come here and brag about the strength of NA ... or should I say the strength of korean on foreign teams.
My rebuttal will be this one : Production quality and entertainment.
WCS KR has the strongest players, something that people have said many times, yet for some reason when people say that it isn't "bragging."
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On September 19 2013 16:17 braller wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 06:29 Otolia wrote:
It's funny to see NA citizens come here and brag about the strength of NA ... or should I say the strength of korean on foreign teams.
My rebuttal will be this one : Production quality and entertainment. WCS KR has the strongest players, something that people have said many times, yet for some reason when people say that it isn't "bragging."
Because almost nobody posts on here from Korea, and the people that do don't need to brag about it because everybody knows it's true anyways.
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Will be interesting at least a few foreigners stand a chance to advance.
My predictions:
A: Stardust, Welmu
B: Vortix ,MC (Happy)
C: ForGG, Nerchio
D: Duckdeok, MMA
Well, at least we gonna see some foreigner vs. korean action here. Not like AM , witch is actually a WCS KR2 ...
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Is it a coincidence that there are 2P 1Z 1T in every group or were those groups intentionally designed?
Anyway, my wishful predictions:
A: Happy - Welmu
B: Vortix - Thorzain
C: Nerchio - Genius
D: MMA - Titan
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I really hope more Koreans join WCS EU. We have very good players. Some are capable of taking down Koreans in all of their match ups and we have some players that can take down Koreans in their prime match up. Lots of good European players did really blow the ball this season.
Naniwa/TLO/Grubby/LucifroN/HasuObs ... they all seem to have performed below their standard level of play. I am not trying to bash them, I am really just suprised. One main point the Koreans are simply superior to non Koreans is consistency. You really don't have that many players in Korea that are shaky in their play. Obviously you have less consistency in them placing high, but thats due to insane skill levels in Korea moreso than them being shaky in their play.
There are exceptions, but less frequently than in Europe and America. anyways, looking forward to see how my Terran folks can do
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On September 19 2013 17:47 NarutO wrote:
I really hope more Koreans join WCS EU. We have very good players. Some are capable of taking down Koreans in all of their match ups and we have some players that can take down Koreans in their prime match up. Lots of good European players did really blow the ball this season.
Naniwa/TLO/Grubby/LucifroN/HasuObs ... they all seem to have performed below their standard level of play. I am not trying to bash them, I am really just suprised. One main point the Koreans are simply superior to non Koreans is consistency. You really don't have that many players in Korea that are shaky in their play. Obviously you have less consistency in them placing high, but thats due to insane skill levels in Korea moreso than them being shaky in their play.
There are exceptions, but less frequently than in Europe and America. anyways, looking forward to see how my Terran folks can do
Not sure what you are talking about, all the players are inconsistent in bigger tournaments beause that's how Starcraft2 works. Just look at Bomber, Life, DRG who are up and down all the time. Also bringing more koreans to europe will kill the scene and Starcraft2 with it. Imagine let's say if some 2 semi-good koreans came to europe and decided they want to play all day and take part in the tournaments including on-line ones leaving foreigners with no money sustain and there is a lot of them(mostly from ukraine/russia) that still play just because they can get that money.
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On September 19 2013 17:59 Nerchio wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 17:47 NarutO wrote:
I really hope more Koreans join WCS EU. We have very good players. Some are capable of taking down Koreans in all of their match ups and we have some players that can take down Koreans in their prime match up. Lots of good European players did really blow the ball this season.
Naniwa/TLO/Grubby/LucifroN/HasuObs ... they all seem to have performed below their standard level of play. I am not trying to bash them, I am really just suprised. One main point the Koreans are simply superior to non Koreans is consistency. You really don't have that many players in Korea that are shaky in their play. Obviously you have less consistency in them placing high, but thats due to insane skill levels in Korea moreso than them being shaky in their play.
There are exceptions, but less frequently than in Europe and America. anyways, looking forward to see how my Terran folks can do Not sure what you are talking about, all the players are inconsistent in bigger tournaments beause that's how Starcraft2 works. Just look at Bomber, Life, DRG who are up and down all the time. Also bringing more koreans to europe will kill the scene and Starcraft2 with it. Imagine let's say if some 2 semi-good koreans came to europe and decided they want to play all day and take part in the tournaments including on-line ones leaving foreigners with no money sustain and there is a lot of them(mostly from ukraine/russia) that still play just because they can get that money.
You read my post so I am not sure why you point out Bomber, Life and DRG. Besides the standard volatility in results of Starcraft 2 games, there are players that are most stable and consistent compared to others. In addition I mentioned that the lack of consistency in Korea comes from
a) volatility of the game
b) skill difference being smaller
If you would send (as you said) good Koreans to Europe, they will perform better on average compared to non-Koreans. Not just because they are better, but also because they are better on average. They are more likely to perform well and more likely to perform better the higher the boX gets.
Also, I care about the highest level of play so while you have concerns about your future which I can completely relate to, I still want to see good players as often as possible, if this means more Koreans and fewer foreign players, I don't mind it at all.
That is not me saying I don't want to see foreign players. You are not my race but if you perform well against a good Korean, I am happy, because I think you deserve your time in the spotlight. Likewise I do like if HasuObs, Grubby or LucifroN do well against Koreans, but I don't think just because its WCS Europe, Europeans are entitled to that money. I believe they should have a hard time when they participate in such a high value league with the chance of global finals.
I don't want to see america and europe send 5/6 players each only to get the floor mobbed with at the Global Finals. I want the foreigners we sent to be worthy. I can name a few that would stand a chance even against good Koreans, those are rare but thats what makes it very cool to cheer for them, because they deserve the cheers (just my opinion)
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On September 19 2013 18:06 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 17:59 Nerchio wrote:On September 19 2013 17:47 NarutO wrote:
I really hope more Koreans join WCS EU. We have very good players. Some are capable of taking down Koreans in all of their match ups and we have some players that can take down Koreans in their prime match up. Lots of good European players did really blow the ball this season.
Naniwa/TLO/Grubby/LucifroN/HasuObs ... they all seem to have performed below their standard level of play. I am not trying to bash them, I am really just suprised. One main point the Koreans are simply superior to non Koreans is consistency. You really don't have that many players in Korea that are shaky in their play. Obviously you have less consistency in them placing high, but thats due to insane skill levels in Korea moreso than them being shaky in their play.
There are exceptions, but less frequently than in Europe and America. anyways, looking forward to see how my Terran folks can do Not sure what you are talking about, all the players are inconsistent in bigger tournaments beause that's how Starcraft2 works. Just look at Bomber, Life, DRG who are up and down all the time. Also bringing more koreans to europe will kill the scene and Starcraft2 with it. Imagine let's say if some 2 semi-good koreans came to europe and decided they want to play all day and take part in the tournaments including on-line ones leaving foreigners with no money sustain and there is a lot of them(mostly from ukraine/russia) that still play just because they can get that money. You read my post so I am not sure why you point out Bomber, Life and DRG. Besides the standard volatility in results of Starcraft 2 games, there are players that are most stable and consistent compared to others. In addition I mentioned that the lack of consistency in Korea comes from a) volatility of the game b) skill difference being smaller If you would send (as you said) good Koreans to Europe, they will perform better on average compared to non-Koreans. Not just because they are better, but also because they are better on average. They are more likely to perform well and more likely to perform better the higher the boX gets. Also, I care about the highest level of play so while you have concerns about your future which I can completely relate to, I still want to see good players as often as possible, if this means more Koreans and fewer foreign players, I don't mind it at all.
For some reason I ignored the second part of your post in my brain but obviously they will be more consistent. What i don't understand is that you have Koreans playing in every region except EU and they all take part in non-WCS tournaments and yet you still want them to see in 1 tournament where foreigners can win something. People say they want to see the best games but sometimes it would be good if we saw something else as well. I hope you don't want to tell Kas you don't care about his sacrafice for the game just because he is not as good as Koreans?
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I edited my post, you might want to read the edit as well. In fact, I would love to see more foreign events. I mean - foreign events for foreign players. European and American events. Smaller events with a pricepool that its worth fighting for but is enough to make progamers able to live their dream and sustain themselves.
I simply believe the biggest stage should not be locked from other players. If I had the money I would totally copy TotalBusicuit and Shoutcraft for Europe. I would run leagues with pricemoney in Europe. Unfortunately I am not a company. I don't want the foreign scene to d ie, I simply want the bigger stages (Dreamhack, WCS, MLG, IEM) to be open to anyone, while I want smaller tournaments (pricepool 5000€ .. maybe?) seperately for foreigners.
I hope you understand my point. I acknowledge all of the foreign players who put in a shit ton of work and I am not saying "step up your game, you suck". I know in fact a lot are working hard so I would never take away credit from them. I was very sad with Kas yesterday, but thats the life of a progamer. I simply wish there would be more tournaments with smaller prices.
Btw: Didn't you just win 2000$ ?  And you can manage to get through that group as well, making it 3500$ :D!
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best players from NA: Liquid Taeja, EG Jaedong, Acer Scarlett, CM Polt, Liquid Hero
best players from KR: So many (i hope Flash is doing well this season)
Scarlett reminds me of Stephano. We need more experience players. That's why i miss season 1.
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I also think that Koreans in WCS Europe is not something we should watch - so any climatic. That's why WCS of each region is the elimination no main event, where all the best players from each continent meet. It's like letting Spain play in Africa football cup.
Well, some of Koreans live here for longer period of time. So let's say that's it's fine then. But coming to Europe just to beat some medium players (in their opinion) is not fair.
They can make more seeds from Korean region or something.
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Heart:
Group A: Stardust and Welmu
Group B: MC and Vortix
Group C: ForGG and Genius
Group D: MMA and Duckdeok
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My predictions for these groups are:
Group A
Welmu and Stardust
Group B
Babyknight and Thorzain
Group C
ForGG and Showtime
Group D
MMA and duckdeok
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On September 19 2013 12:40 NovemberstOrm wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2013 11:57 tdt wrote:
How do they choose these groups? Seems rigged to have 4 groups with exactly 2 toss 1 zerg 1 terran.
Anyways...gogogo MC time to reclaim presidency from these upstarts. 2 1st place finishers + 2 2nd place finishers from the ro32 groups, anyone who played against each other in the ro32 cannot be placed into the same group as the other in the ro16. Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong on any of this.
That seems to be correct at first glance and how it should be, but I would also expect a fixed format.
Like group A in Ro16 consist of 1st place A and B and 2nd place C and D of Ro32.
I compared EU with KR and they have different setups it seems so i'm guessing they just wing it?
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TL user logic: group b has lots of recognizable names so its probably the hardest group
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On September 20 2013 00:26 DinosaurPoop wrote:
TL user logic: group b has lots of recognizable names so its probably the hardest group
It's the weakest judged by average Aligulac points. Aligulac knows.
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United States23455 Posts
On September 20 2013 00:26 DinosaurPoop wrote:
TL user logic: group b has lots of recognizable names so its probably the hardest group
Probably weaker than D and C at least. But people see Thorzain and MC and think 2011/2012 Thorzain and MC.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 20 2013 00:26 DinosaurPoop wrote:
TL user logic: group b has lots of recognizable names so its probably the hardest group
It is hardest to predict. You can predict possible outcomes of other groups judging by nobody will get to Ro8 thingy, yet Group B has 3 of 'em.
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On September 20 2013 01:42 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2013 00:26 DinosaurPoop wrote:
TL user logic: group b has lots of recognizable names so its probably the hardest group It is hardest to predict. You can predict possible outcomes of other groups judging by nobody will get to Ro8 thingy, yet Group B has 3 of 'em.
Wait so hardest group simply means hardest to predict?
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EPT
