Re-translation, errors and mis-interprets guaranteed but you should get the point.
Seven months after Jun Byung Hun took the chair as Chief Executive of Korea e-Sports Association (KeSPA), he announced the "NEXT eSports" project, with the vision of unifying the eSports scene in mind.
This project will included four major steps, the first of which will be drastic changes to the structure of the association and its operating commitee.
First, changes to the participating companies will be discussed. Currently all teams are belong to their corresponding sponsor companies, which are also members of the association or members of the Council, cost of running the association are provided by those members, thus all decisions of the association are determined by them.
But since the National Assembly of South Korea voted and passed the eSports Promotion Bill, KeSPA is no longer a professional association, it is now serving the entire citizenship.
For pushing the Korean eSports scene, Chief Jun Byung Hun announced the "NEXT eSports" project, determined to make changes to the association itself.
1. KeSPA will open its doors to all organizations currently active in the South Korean eSports industry;
2. The teams will no longer need to pay the membership fee, a membership agreement is all it's needed to join KeSPA, receiving rights to participate the operating of corresponding games and association activities like player protection protocols, thus receiving long-time support from KeSPA;
3. TV stations can also join KeSPA via media agreements, grant rights to broadcast KeSPA tournaments and government-run tournaments. KeSPA will provide active support for its media partners;
4. If game developers pay their share of membership fee, the money will be used to promote eSports, organzing amateur tournaments like the Presidential Cup, and supporting eSports teams and players. The Association will actively support the domestic amateur scene, later IeSF will join the Sports Accord, to further provide support for the globalization of eSports.
5. Members and membership companies will be able to discuss events relating to leagues separately, they can also submit proposals to the Operating Commitee for discussion, the Commitee will be able to make decisions on minor subjects. Major subjects will be submitted to the Association under agreement of the general consensus. At the annual Korean eSports Award Ceremony, there will be a meeting for all members and membership companies.
6. The companies acting as Vice Chief Executive will be able to discuss the major subjects decided by the Operating Commitee with the Chief.
7. Financial operations will go under supervision by the Association Council, which will also be able to discuss and finalize major subjects submitted by the Chief.
8. KeSPA will operate under the Chief as the governing body of Korean eSports, with financial support from the membership fee and Council membership fee, to develop the Korean eSports scene. KeSPA will be working on their best to protect the players and help them retire into society if necessary, and provided support for the continuous running of teams. The Association will further maintain peace relationships among all members, and help communicate between members, to fans and media.
There was also a interview by fomos stating KeSPA is negotiating with GomTV and SPOTV (Proleague broadcaster) for accepting them as official broadcasting partners, and KeSPA is looking good being accepted as an official sports organzation.
TL;DR: KeSPA no longer requires membership fee to join, all Korean teams and organization will be able to join; broadcasting companies will be free to broadcast KeSPA events as long as they join KeSPA.
This is hinting toward an unify teamleague more than anything else. Not only corporate giant has a seat in the board but other organization (read:non corporate-teams) can also join (read2: eSF team, Najin etc) That said, members like SKTelecom or Samsung still have a much weighted say in making decision imo
On August 28 2013 17:07 Fionn wrote: So...this means EVERYONE is KeSPA now?
Out of curiosity, how is kespa funded? without membership fees, will they be relying entirely on media broadcasting contracts to keep them afloat?
And are the team's sponsor's part of the operating committee or are they just representatives of the teams they sponsor? (basically, does sponsoring a team give you a seat on the operating committee)
Edit : It could be a step in the right direction... or just a hail Mary to maintain whatever teams they do have so they dont disband leaving proleague with even less teams. Either way, it would be interesting to see what happens with the next proleague and if any non-kespa teams join in.
On August 28 2013 17:07 Gamegene wrote: wow. GOMTV and eSF have some difficult choices to make.
I dont think they have any choice. Basically Kespa just became ministry of E-Sport in Korea.
On August 28 2013 17:11 Energizer wrote: Out of curiosity, how is kespa funded? without membership fees, will they be relying entirely on media broadcasting contracts to keep them afloat?
And are the team's sponsor's part of the operating committee or are they just representatives of the teams they sponsor? (basically, does sponsoring a team give you a seat on the operating committee)
Looks like it could get additional government funding.
It's good for the next Proleague season I guess, but it's not good that a stable system is basically disintegrating piece by piece. It just undermines the level of seriousness and prestige that Proleague had if teams can just come and go season by season.
But I guess you have to make up the numbers somehow.
On the one hand, it seems like we are about to lose most of the infrastructure that BW had for professional gaming, but at the same time it will be great to see more teams in Proleague again.
On August 28 2013 17:13 Talin wrote: It's good for the next Proleague season I guess, but it's not good that a stable system is basically disintegrating piece by piece. It just undermines the level of seriousness and prestige that Proleague had if teams can just come and go season by season.
But I guess you have to make up the numbers somehow.
If theres one thing you can be sure of KeSPA, thats professionalism (although it can go absurd at times). Also I think they will still keep "core" members aka chaebols like Samsung Im sick of those partnership team bullshit. Hope this move marks the end of that
On August 28 2013 17:13 Talin wrote: It's good for the next Proleague season I guess, but it's not good that a stable system is basically disintegrating piece by piece. It just undermines the level of seriousness and prestige that Proleague had if teams can just come and go season by season.
But I guess you have to make up the numbers somehow.
If theres one thing you can be sure of KeSPA, thats professionalism (although it can go absurd at times). Also I think they will still keep "core" members aka chaebols like Samsung Im sick of those partnership team bullshit. Hope this move marks the end of that
Uh, I don't see how. Will be easier to join Proleague, doesn't mean that partnership teams like EGTL or AxiomAcer couldn't do it as well.
Not even gonna ask why you'd dislike them in the first place. Probably just hate fun
Hopefully no one goes apeshit trying to sabotage for the other part. If everything works out, this might (will) mean that we'll get something like 10 teams in Proleague again, and that's really something to strive for, at least in my limited perspective.
I wish my govermnent would pass an "eSports Promotion Bill" too hhehehe, South Korea is really a unique country in this regard.
So, does it mean more unified league for SC2 ? Don't know if this is a good thing or not. A unified system would bring more power and ressources, but I feel competition is always better for the viewer/consumer.
On August 28 2013 17:13 Talin wrote: It's good for the next Proleague season I guess, but it's not good that a stable system is basically disintegrating piece by piece. It just undermines the level of seriousness and prestige that Proleague had if teams can just come and go season by season.
But I guess you have to make up the numbers somehow.
If theres one thing you can be sure of KeSPA, thats professionalism (although it can go absurd at times). Also I think they will still keep "core" members aka chaebols like Samsung Im sick of those partnership team bullshit. Hope this move marks the end of that
Uh, I don't see how. Will be easier to join Proleague, doesn't mean that partnership teams like EGTL or AxiomAcer couldn't do it as well.
Not even gonna ask why you'd dislike them in the first place. Probably just hate fun
Easier to join KeSPA as a Korean organization imo Those teams are basically last resort filler teams. They come and go and not fully commit. They cant stand on their own feet (not enough players, foreign commitment etc). Will you put the sustainability of your league in that kind of team if it's not for desperate situation?
On August 28 2013 17:13 Talin wrote: It's good for the next Proleague season I guess, but it's not good that a stable system is basically disintegrating piece by piece. It just undermines the level of seriousness and prestige that Proleague had if teams can just come and go season by season.
But I guess you have to make up the numbers somehow.
If theres one thing you can be sure of KeSPA, thats professionalism (although it can go absurd at times). Also I think they will still keep "core" members aka chaebols like Samsung Im sick of those partnership team bullshit. Hope this move marks the end of that
Uh, I don't see how. Will be easier to join Proleague, doesn't mean that partnership teams like EGTL or AxiomAcer couldn't do it as well.
Not even gonna ask why you'd dislike them in the first place. Probably just hate fun
Easier to join KeSPA as a Korean organization imo Those teams are basically last resort filler teams. They come and go and not fully commit. They cant stand on their own feet (not enough players, foreign commitment etc). Will you put the sustainability of your league in that kind of team if it's not for desperate situation?
Keep in mind though that Team 8 was also a last resort filler team consisting of players from different teams that, and the team was unable to stand on its own for 2 full seasons of Proleague.
On August 28 2013 17:13 Talin wrote: It's good for the next Proleague season I guess, but it's not good that a stable system is basically disintegrating piece by piece. It just undermines the level of seriousness and prestige that Proleague had if teams can just come and go season by season.
But I guess you have to make up the numbers somehow.
If theres one thing you can be sure of KeSPA, thats professionalism (although it can go absurd at times). Also I think they will still keep "core" members aka chaebols like Samsung Im sick of those partnership team bullshit. Hope this move marks the end of that
Uh, I don't see how. Will be easier to join Proleague, doesn't mean that partnership teams like EGTL or AxiomAcer couldn't do it as well.
Not even gonna ask why you'd dislike them in the first place. Probably just hate fun
Easier to join KeSPA as a Korean organization imo Those teams are basically last resort filler teams. They come and go and not fully commit. They cant stand on their own feet (not enough players, foreign commitment etc). Will you put the sustainability of your league in that kind of team if it's not for desperate situation?
Keep in mind though that Team 8 was also a last resort filler team consisting of players from different teams that, and the team was unable to stand on its own for 2 full seasons of Proleague.
This has the potential to be great and awesome, but I remain viciously pessimistic.
If all of the teams become KeSPA, and then it lasts even 2 years without some sort incredible drama surfacing, I will be amazed. Either in SC2, LoL, or both.
This is VERY interesting because the shift is done because of the decline that KeSPA have. With a power restructure like this they can maintain the main governing body AND expand much larger.
Imo this is a very good change especially for the eSport in Korea. (SC2 can actually jump on the huge LoL hype even more)
On August 28 2013 17:13 Talin wrote: It's good for the next Proleague season I guess, but it's not good that a stable system is basically disintegrating piece by piece. It just undermines the level of seriousness and prestige that Proleague had if teams can just come and go season by season.
But I guess you have to make up the numbers somehow.
If theres one thing you can be sure of KeSPA, thats professionalism (although it can go absurd at times). Also I think they will still keep "core" members aka chaebols like Samsung Im sick of those partnership team bullshit. Hope this move marks the end of that
Uh, I don't see how. Will be easier to join Proleague, doesn't mean that partnership teams like EGTL or AxiomAcer couldn't do it as well.
Not even gonna ask why you'd dislike them in the first place. Probably just hate fun
Easier to join KeSPA as a Korean organization imo Those teams are basically last resort filler teams. They come and go and not fully commit. They cant stand on their own feet (not enough players, foreign commitment etc). Will you put the sustainability of your league in that kind of team if it's not for desperate situation?
Keep in mind though that Team 8 was also a last resort filler team consisting of players from different teams that, and the team was unable to stand on its own for 2 full seasons of Proleague.
Team 8 is a special case. When 3 (!) big teams dissolved, you oughta do something for 1.the fans 2.the players(many) 3.your league Oh and they were operated by KeSPA so they didnt go anywhere. Dunno why you bring out this example lol
On August 28 2013 17:13 Talin wrote: It's good for the next Proleague season I guess, but it's not good that a stable system is basically disintegrating piece by piece. It just undermines the level of seriousness and prestige that Proleague had if teams can just come and go season by season.
But I guess you have to make up the numbers somehow.
If theres one thing you can be sure of KeSPA, thats professionalism (although it can go absurd at times). Also I think they will still keep "core" members aka chaebols like Samsung Im sick of those partnership team bullshit. Hope this move marks the end of that
Uh, I don't see how. Will be easier to join Proleague, doesn't mean that partnership teams like EGTL or AxiomAcer couldn't do it as well.
Not even gonna ask why you'd dislike them in the first place. Probably just hate fun
Easier to join KeSPA as a Korean organization imo Those teams are basically last resort filler teams. They come and go and not fully commit. They cant stand on their own feet (not enough players, foreign commitment etc). Will you put the sustainability of your league in that kind of team if it's not for desperate situation?
Keep in mind though that Team 8 was also a last resort filler team consisting of players from different teams that, and the team was unable to stand on its own for 2 full seasons of Proleague.
I think you mean "was able"?
Financially no, Team 8 was not able to stand on its own until Jin Air stepped up to sponsor the team - the team wouldn't have existed without KeSPA's support.
On August 28 2013 17:13 Talin wrote: It's good for the next Proleague season I guess, but it's not good that a stable system is basically disintegrating piece by piece. It just undermines the level of seriousness and prestige that Proleague had if teams can just come and go season by season.
But I guess you have to make up the numbers somehow.
If theres one thing you can be sure of KeSPA, thats professionalism (although it can go absurd at times). Also I think they will still keep "core" members aka chaebols like Samsung Im sick of those partnership team bullshit. Hope this move marks the end of that
Uh, I don't see how. Will be easier to join Proleague, doesn't mean that partnership teams like EGTL or AxiomAcer couldn't do it as well.
Not even gonna ask why you'd dislike them in the first place. Probably just hate fun
Easier to join KeSPA as a Korean organization imo Those teams are basically last resort filler teams. They come and go and not fully commit. They cant stand on their own feet (not enough players, foreign commitment etc). Will you put the sustainability of your league in that kind of team if it's not for desperate situation?
Keep in mind though that Team 8 was also a last resort filler team consisting of players from different teams that, and the team was unable to stand on its own for 2 full seasons of Proleague.
Team 8 is a special case. When 3 (!) big teams dissolved, you oughta do something for 1.the fans 2.the players(many) 3.your league Oh and they were operated by KeSPA so they didnt go anywhere. Dunno why you bring out this example lol
I'm just saying that just because your team is A) Not KeSPA and B) a partnership team, it doesn't mean you can't both stand on your own (without the governing organisation having to step in and help you out) and stick around. Axiom-Acer is a fairly good example of this - everything I've read seems to indicate that they intended on sticking around for more seasons of GSTL (which may not happen in light of KeSPA's structural changes), and EG-Liquid dropped out of Proleague because they were more interested in starting their own league (although lacking ROI also played a part). I mean sure there have been partnership fiascos but let's not say all team partnerships are like that.
On August 28 2013 17:13 Talin wrote: It's good for the next Proleague season I guess, but it's not good that a stable system is basically disintegrating piece by piece. It just undermines the level of seriousness and prestige that Proleague had if teams can just come and go season by season.
But I guess you have to make up the numbers somehow.
If theres one thing you can be sure of KeSPA, thats professionalism (although it can go absurd at times). Also I think they will still keep "core" members aka chaebols like Samsung Im sick of those partnership team bullshit. Hope this move marks the end of that
Uh, I don't see how. Will be easier to join Proleague, doesn't mean that partnership teams like EGTL or AxiomAcer couldn't do it as well.
Not even gonna ask why you'd dislike them in the first place. Probably just hate fun
Easier to join KeSPA as a Korean organization imo Those teams are basically last resort filler teams. They come and go and not fully commit. They cant stand on their own feet (not enough players, foreign commitment etc). Will you put the sustainability of your league in that kind of team if it's not for desperate situation?
Keep in mind though that Team 8 was also a last resort filler team consisting of players from different teams that, and the team was unable to stand on its own for 2 full seasons of Proleague.
I think you mean "was able"?
Financially no, Team 8 was not able to stand on its own until Jin Air stepped up to sponsor the team - the team wouldn't have existed without KeSPA's support.
On August 28 2013 17:13 Talin wrote: It's good for the next Proleague season I guess, but it's not good that a stable system is basically disintegrating piece by piece. It just undermines the level of seriousness and prestige that Proleague had if teams can just come and go season by season.
But I guess you have to make up the numbers somehow.
If theres one thing you can be sure of KeSPA, thats professionalism (although it can go absurd at times). Also I think they will still keep "core" members aka chaebols like Samsung Im sick of those partnership team bullshit. Hope this move marks the end of that
Uh, I don't see how. Will be easier to join Proleague, doesn't mean that partnership teams like EGTL or AxiomAcer couldn't do it as well.
Not even gonna ask why you'd dislike them in the first place. Probably just hate fun
Easier to join KeSPA as a Korean organization imo Those teams are basically last resort filler teams. They come and go and not fully commit. They cant stand on their own feet (not enough players, foreign commitment etc). Will you put the sustainability of your league in that kind of team if it's not for desperate situation?
Keep in mind though that Team 8 was also a last resort filler team consisting of players from different teams that, and the team was unable to stand on its own for 2 full seasons of Proleague.
Team 8 is a special case. When 3 (!) big teams dissolved, you oughta do something for 1.the fans 2.the players(many) 3.your league Oh and they were operated by KeSPA so they didnt go anywhere. Dunno why you bring out this example lol
I'm just saying that just because your team is A) Not KeSPA and B) a partnership team, it doesn't mean you can't both stand on your own (without the governing organisation having to step in and help you out) and stick around. Axiom-Acer is a fairly good example of this - everything I've read seems to indicate that they intended on sticking around for more seasons of GSTL (which may not happen in light of KeSPA's structural changes), and EG-Liquid dropped out of Proleague because they were more interested in starting their own league (although lacking ROI also played a part). I mean sure there have been partnership fiascos but let's not say all team partnerships are like that.
The thing is you cant control their interest since they are not domestic and they are not even one team (but two). Maybe you should answer this again: is you are organizer, will you put the sustainability of your product in those teams?
OGN stops producing for SC2 except for a once/twice a year OSL, and instead hands all production over to GOMTV. That includes Proleague. OGN will just rebroadcast the games on TV and they split the profit. OGN then focuses on producing for LoL only
GOMTV becomes a board member of Kespa. ESF as we know it dissolves, everyone is now under Kespa, but with GOMTV as their main content producer for SC2, there should be no worries about former ESF teams being bullied out of the system.
Next Proleague has 12 teams. KT, SKT, WJ, Khan, Jin Air, CJ, IM, ST, MVP, AxA, FXO and Prime/EGTL.
Next next Proleague reduced to 10 teams. KT, SKT, Khan, Jin Air, CJ, IM, ST, MVP, FXO and AxA/Prime/EGTL/Clauf.
Chaebol sponsors a former ESF team. Possibly two chaebols and two teams.
GSL formally becomes the one and only WCS KR, and OSL is now only a 'special tournament'. We get another GOM-run special tournament like the Super Tournament for WCS offseason.
I think it's really hard to call this good or bad either way at this point, It represents a step towards what KeSPA should have been in the first place, but it's might be hugely destabilizing to the existing KeSPA teams and competition and with less cooperation between KeSPA and Broadcasters it might have a run on effect with less competitions in Korea and subsequently less sponsors for the teams.
i think Kespa and other sc2 broadcasters in South Korea are running out of steam and interest in sc2. It's easier to outsource the streaming to other companies and to get new teams by opening the league rather than founding Team9. To me it reveals the decline of south korean sc2.
On August 28 2013 18:14 Cele wrote: i think Kespa and other sc2 broadcasters in South Korea are running out of steam and interest in sc2. It's easier to outsource the streaming to other companies and to get new teams by opening the league rather than founding Team9. To me it reveals the decline of south korean sc2.
On August 28 2013 18:14 Cele wrote: i think Kespa and other sc2 broadcasters in South Korea are running out of steam and interest in sc2. It's easier to outsource the streaming to other companies and to get new teams by opening the league rather than founding Team9. To me it reveals the decline of south korean sc2.
That's for sure, the only place sc2 is hot is Europe. I feel LoL is rescuing sc2 in Korea right now.
On August 28 2013 17:15 DarkLordOlli wrote: But what do Kespa fanboys do now that everybody is Kespa
do they just cheer for everybody?
And ESF fans? Will they cheer for... nobody?
They were only ever useful labels for those who preferred GSL`s 1st generation players/teams (ESF) or those who followed the BW stars (Kespa). I don`t think many rooted for the governing organisations themselves. It`s all pretty mixed now anyway so this move should be good to bring the korean scene under 1 roof.
On August 28 2013 18:14 Cele wrote: i think Kespa and other sc2 broadcasters in South Korea are running out of steam and interest in sc2. It's easier to outsource the streaming to other companies and to get new teams by opening the league rather than founding Team9. To me it reveals the decline of south korean sc2.
On August 28 2013 18:14 Cele wrote: i think Kespa and other sc2 broadcasters in South Korea are running out of steam and interest in sc2. It's easier to outsource the streaming to other companies and to get new teams by opening the league rather than founding Team9. To me it reveals the decline of south korean sc2.
Decline implies there ever was a peak.
of course there's a peak lolwat
Felt more like it was a downward slope into the abyss.
On August 28 2013 18:14 Cele wrote: i think Kespa and other sc2 broadcasters in South Korea are running out of steam and interest in sc2. It's easier to outsource the streaming to other companies and to get new teams by opening the league rather than founding Team9. To me it reveals the decline of south korean sc2.
You realize this is about waaay more then just sc2 right?
On August 28 2013 18:14 Cele wrote: i think Kespa and other sc2 broadcasters in South Korea are running out of steam and interest in sc2. It's easier to outsource the streaming to other companies and to get new teams by opening the league rather than founding Team9. To me it reveals the decline of south korean sc2.
Decline implies there ever was a peak.
of course there's a peak lolwat
Felt more like it was a downward slope into the abyss.
>_>
Can't believe this forum still exists considering how dead a game we are
On August 28 2013 18:14 Cele wrote: i think Kespa and other sc2 broadcasters in South Korea are running out of steam and interest in sc2. It's easier to outsource the streaming to other companies and to get new teams by opening the league rather than founding Team9. To me it reveals the decline of south korean sc2.
Decline implies there ever was a peak.
of course there's a peak lolwat
Felt more like it was a downward slope into the abyss.
>_>
Can't believe this forum still exists considering how dead a game we are
There's a difference between being dead and lacking popularity.
Well... I hope Blizzard can intervene as the moderator. Now, good thing about KeSPA is that it does try to keep the Korean SC2 eSports scene working, however, KeSPA is notorious for monopolizing the eSports market.
On August 28 2013 18:14 Cele wrote: i think Kespa and other sc2 broadcasters in South Korea are running out of steam and interest in sc2. It's easier to outsource the streaming to other companies and to get new teams by opening the league rather than founding Team9. To me it reveals the decline of south korean sc2.
Kespa`s not a broadcaster and have always outsourced/used partners, like OGN, MBC, SPOtv and GOM. New teams with actual sponsors are also better than running another version of T8 out of existing sponsor`s pockets. Making up crap just to fit with your doomsday perspective doesn`t make it true.
Purely from a spectator perspective, I have no problem Kespa taking over all ESF teams, YET if that happens what would happen to GOM's production? I feel GOM brings the most solid and consistent stream in SC2, I wouldn't want to see that disappear.
I don't understand why some people are overly negative regarding this news.
Basically KeSPA when it was originally founded had the goal of unifying and supporting the eSports scene in all of South Korea, and providing fair opportunities to pro gamers as well as protecting their interests.
When KeSPA became stubborn and refused to recognize SC2 and other titles as eSports then they failed in their original goals, they stopped serving the people and where serving their own interests. The joining fee also didn't help one damn bit. This new move meant to return KeSPA to its original goal of serving the people, protecting and supporting the players, the teams and the sponsoring companies. KeSPA doesn't lose much of its regulating power, its just that now all eSports teams in South Korea can join it and have a say in the decisions being made.
This does however mean that the eSF in its current iteration no longer makes sense to exist, when all the GSTL teams and GOM join KeSPA then they will become part of it and will be involved in the decisions, so the need for eSF becomes null, but the interests of GOM and the current eSF are still being protected, which is a good thing.
This overall is just great news, its a shinning step forward for Korea and, again is one of the reasons why they are still vastly ahead of the westerners in terms of acceptance and support for eSports.
On August 28 2013 18:34 macncheezeplz wrote: Purely from a spectator perspective, I have no problem Kespa taking over all ESF teams, YET if that happens what would happen to GOM's production? I feel GOM brings the most solid and consistent stream in SC2, I wouldn't want to see that disappear.
GOM's production definitely wouldn't disappear under the structural changes. What you have to understand is that guys like OGN, GOMTV etc. are primarily broadcasting organisations, unlike Kespa which is basically a e-sports governing body. Kespa will be working in tandem with broadcasters.
On August 28 2013 18:14 Cele wrote: i think Kespa and other sc2 broadcasters in South Korea are running out of steam and interest in sc2. It's easier to outsource the streaming to other companies and to get new teams by opening the league rather than founding Team9. To me it reveals the decline of south korean sc2.
I feel LoL is rescuing sc2 in Korea right now.
It's funny, that's actually the exact same thing that Thorin said some time ago too, when he was in Korea. Except he added that he was regretful that LoL didn't get released in KR earlier, so it might possibly also could have saved MBC and not just OGN.
On August 28 2013 18:14 Cele wrote: i think Kespa and other sc2 broadcasters in South Korea are running out of steam and interest in sc2. It's easier to outsource the streaming to other companies and to get new teams by opening the league rather than founding Team9. To me it reveals the decline of south korean sc2.
You realize this is about waaay more then just sc2 right?
do tell. but i don't really care about Lol development.
On August 28 2013 18:14 Cele wrote: i think Kespa and other sc2 broadcasters in South Korea are running out of steam and interest in sc2. It's easier to outsource the streaming to other companies and to get new teams by opening the league rather than founding Team9. To me it reveals the decline of south korean sc2.
You realize this is about waaay more then just sc2 right?
do tell. but i don't really care about Lol development.
Well, you should on some level though, at least if you want to theorycraft about the bigger picture here, as you did.
Well KeSPA has just become a national sports association (Kinda like PZPN for soccer in Poland), which frankly I thought it was first time I heard about them ;P I think it's good and bodes well for everyone.
On August 28 2013 18:14 Cele wrote: i think Kespa and other sc2 broadcasters in South Korea are running out of steam and interest in sc2. It's easier to outsource the streaming to other companies and to get new teams by opening the league rather than founding Team9. To me it reveals the decline of south korean sc2.
Kespa`s not a broadcaster and have always outsourced/used partners, like OGN, MBC, SPOtv and GOM. New teams with actual sponsors are also better than running another version of T8 out of existing sponsor`s pockets. Making up crap just to fit with your doomsday perspective doesn`t make it true.
OGN and MBC were closely tied with Kespa, so this still counts to me. I dont make up crap, i provide my pov of the situation. And you agression doesn't make the opposite true either.
On August 28 2013 17:11 Energizer wrote: Out of curiosity, how is kespa funded? without membership fees, will they be relying entirely on media broadcasting contracts to keep them afloat?
And are the team's sponsor's part of the operating committee or are they just representatives of the teams they sponsor? (basically, does sponsoring a team give you a seat on the operating committee)
Looks like it could get additional government funding.
it says something about making some kind of alliance with esf not really eating them up so it might be a partnership of sorts.
1. KeSPA will open its doors to all organizations currently active in the South Korean eSports industry;
Does this mean that teams like Acer, EG, TL, Axiom can, if they so desire, join KeSPA? It doesn't say that they have to based in Korea, only active. Or is this where translations fail?
This is good, but not exactly helps sc2. Is more like Kespa setting the LoL plate to get the juicy slices (hence new teams that are made atm). From a viewer of sc2 this is good and will improve the quality of PL ( I don`t see GSTL living through as this product was like the kid that nobody wanted more or less). But this might be a turning point aswel in increasing the sc2 views on TV (in KR the games are televised) so fingers crossed for better.
On August 28 2013 18:14 Cele wrote: i think Kespa and other sc2 broadcasters in South Korea are running out of steam and interest in sc2. It's easier to outsource the streaming to other companies and to get new teams by opening the league rather than founding Team9. To me it reveals the decline of south korean sc2.
You realize this is about waaay more then just sc2 right?
do tell. but i don't really care about Lol development.
Well, you should on some level though, at least if you want to theorycraft about the bigger picture here, as you did.
no i don't have to. Im aware of the importance of Lol in Korea, but it's not the focus of my attention, thus i don't feel the need to especially point it out in an sc2 forum i summarized my pov on this in regards to sc2.
Can someone well informed explain how this structure is financially feasible? Seems like they're just taking a sizable chunk of former revenue and making it optional, and relying on goodwill to survive... =/
With this move, the biggest question is between the broadcasting factions: OGN and GOM.
Neither will just throw away viewers so easily.
But, a strong move by Kespa. I hope basically the Korean scene unites one way or another and that the broadcasting gets worked out in a beneficial way also.
On August 28 2013 21:23 c0ldfusion wrote: Does this pave the way to GSTL + Proleague merge?
Since all SC2 teams will now be on KeSPA it definitely does in a way, however the original KeSPA teams and the eSF teams need to come to some sort of an agreement.
On August 28 2013 21:23 c0ldfusion wrote: Does this pave the way to GSTL + Proleague merge?
Since all SC2 teams will now be on KeSPA it definitely does in a way, however the original KeSPA teams and the eSF teams need to come to some sort of an agreement.
I'd be suprised if LG-IM and MVP didn't hop across.
On August 28 2013 21:42 shin_toss wrote: Does this mean they have to quit eSF?
No though, in a sense, eSF no longer needs to exist. It was formed to protect the interests of the original SC2 teams in South Korea given that KeSPA for a while refused to knowledge SC2 as an eSport (wouldn't give out pro gamer licenses for it and such), and also to protect the teams from KeSPA potential bullying when they did get into SC2. Now that the eSF teams can be part of KeSPA they will have a say in how it operates and can more easily protect their interests, thus eSF has become kind of redundant.
On August 28 2013 22:01 VisonKai wrote: I would like to keep GSTL and Proleague separate, so that there's always options for someone who likes all-kill.
Also so that we can fanboy over GSTL vs Proleague teams, since apparently eSF and KeSPA are no longer valid distinctions.
Proleague alternated between all-kill and winners leaugue already this year.
I think and hope that this will be the strengthening push SC2 needs in Korea
On August 28 2013 17:55 TheSayo182 wrote: samsung - sk telecom - kt rolster - woongjin - cj entus - air jin IM - startale - mvp - prime - FXO - Azubu?
12 teams league? gooood!
with maybe AX-acer and EGTL?
a 14 teams proleague will be sick! gogogo make it please!
Didn't multiple sources claim that EG-TL was no-more. If they are still continuing I'd be curious as to who they get as their next coach seeing as Coach Park immediately jumped ship to CJ Entus the moment the season ended.
I'd like to see Coach Lee as the head coach of EG-TL. He did a really good job with TSL while it was still alive and it would seem fitting if player abandonment for foreign teams was why TSL died.
On August 28 2013 17:15 DarkLordOlli wrote: But what do Kespa fanboys do now that everybody is Kespa
do they just cheer for everybody?
And ESF fans? Will they cheer for... nobody?
They were only ever useful labels for those who preferred GSL`s 1st generation players/teams (ESF) or those who followed the BW stars (Kespa). I don`t think many rooted for the governing organisations themselves. It`s all pretty mixed now anyway so this move should be good to bring the korean scene under 1 roof.
Not necessarily.
In my case at least, me being a "BW elitist" is not hand-to-hand with me supporting KeSPA.
I am a "BW elitist" because I consider BW the better game, and SC2 to be a clusterfuck, and pretty detrimental to the Korean scene in general.
I support KeSPA not for being KeSPA, but because they are the only stable governing body that is not in control of Blizzard's control scheme. I strongly believe that in the long term, having all tournaments tethered to Blizzard's is very bad. It essentially gives Blizzard full power to kill a game whenever they please so they can promote whatever sequel or other game they think should be the next "eSport".
Bizzard didn't create SC2 thinking on eSports. Blizzard created SC2 to take over eSports.
On August 28 2013 17:15 DarkLordOlli wrote: But what do Kespa fanboys do now that everybody is Kespa
do they just cheer for everybody?
And ESF fans? Will they cheer for... nobody?
They were only ever useful labels for those who preferred GSL`s 1st generation players/teams (ESF) or those who followed the BW stars (Kespa). I don`t think many rooted for the governing organisations themselves. It`s all pretty mixed now anyway so this move should be good to bring the korean scene under 1 roof.
Bizzard didn't create SC2 thinking on eSports. Blizzard created SC2 to take over eSports.
I beg to differ. Blizzard created SC2 around single player. Keeping a competitive multiplayer scene alive is of little to no direct consequence for them; the benefit comes from the fact that this keeps the game in the news and helps to boost marketing for each new release. If Blizzard had created SC2 to "take over eSports", their decisions on Battle.net, tournaments and licensing (e.g. the disastrous policy against PC booths) wouldn't have been so nonsensical.
Interesting. Can see this working out really well. eSF and gom joins. We get no more of this silly piggyback wcs and we get a unified PL or something like that. It really depends on GOM though. Seems to me that the teams have little choice. They kind of have to join and this has made it so much easier for them.
I guess it could put gom in a awkward position depending on how things go and how their relationship with kespa is already. If all the teams join kespa (basically dissolving esf), then gom might be left out. Hopefully this is all good news though^^
On August 28 2013 22:53 cYaN wrote: Interesting. Can see this working out really well. eSF and gom joins. We get no more of this silly piggyback wcs and we get a unified PL or something like that. It really depends on GOM though. Seems to me that the teams have little choice. They kind of have to join and this has made it so much easier for them.
Bravo to KeSPA for keeping up with the times and adapting. Hopefully this will bridge that stupid divide they have in Korean esports right now. What I really don't understand is the evil powerplay, monopoly things that people are saying. Can't they have just responded to the current situation and opened their side up to compete? Not everything they have ever done was evil, they pretty much legitimized esports in Korea and put them under rules to keep it above board. Yes some things they did were selfish but this announcement is nothing but forward movement for them and should be respected.
great news if it allows all teams to just compete in one league. Separation of players and leagues is never good, always in favor of unification and seeing the absolute best.
On August 28 2013 17:13 Talin wrote: It's good for the next Proleague season I guess, but it's not good that a stable system is basically disintegrating piece by piece. It just undermines the level of seriousness and prestige that Proleague had if teams can just come and go season by season.
But I guess you have to make up the numbers somehow.
While it does make Proleague somewhat less prestigious, the fact that there are more teams would make the competition much fiercer.
On August 28 2013 17:13 Talin wrote: It's good for the next Proleague season I guess, but it's not good that a stable system is basically disintegrating piece by piece. It just undermines the level of seriousness and prestige that Proleague had if teams can just come and go season by season.
But I guess you have to make up the numbers somehow.
While it does make Proleague somewhat less prestigious, the fact that there are more teams would make the competition much fiercer.
Less prestigious is sometimes code for "different". A more open system that allows different teams to try out will be better for everyone. It means a lower barrier to entry for newer teams or teams from outside of Korea.
If game developers pay their share of membership fee, the money will be used to promote eSports, organzing amateur tournaments
this hopefully will mean that e.g. Blizzard kind of just needs to shove some money into the scene to build it up (which they are doing now, but in a very inefficient manner)
I hope all other aspects make sense businesswise for GOM
If someone else brought this up my bad but I didn't see it when running through the thread:
4. If game developers pay their share of membership fee, the money will be used to promote eSports, organzing amateur tournaments like the Presidential Cup, and supporting eSports teams and players. The Association will actively support the domestic amateur scene, later IeSF will join the Sports Accord, to further provide support for the globalization of eSports.
What does this mean? Game developers paying membership fees and being members of kespa? Maybe I'm being cynical but this seems like it's opening a path to game developers (riot) to officially influence what tournaments get run and what games teams can play, as a dota fan this has me very worried.
Section 4 is basically Kespa requiring publishers to put forth some money to support the scene, since what they are getting is advertising for their game and brand. It is not as sinister as people are making it out to be, since it is pretty standard stuff. I am sure Blizzard has been paying GOM to broadcast SC2 in some way since SC2 started. I wouldn’t get bent out of shape about it or think that one game is going to chase out another by offering more money. That sort of stuff is really short term thinking and Kespa would not benefit from it long term. It is more about Kespa and the broadcasters saying “Hey, you got to chip in if you want us to show your game so we can play these players and teams.”
4. If game developers pay their share of membership fee, the money will be used to promote eSports, organzing amateur tournaments like the Presidential Cup, and supporting eSports teams and players. The Association will actively support the domestic amateur scene, later IeSF will join the Sports Accord, to further provide support for the globalization of eSports.
What does this mean? Game developers paying membership fees and being members of kespa? Maybe I'm being cynical but this seems like it's opening a path to game developers (riot) to officially influence what tournaments get run and what games teams can play, as a dota fan this has me very worried.
This is great news for sc2 though IMO.
I don't think Riot needs to pay for anything in Korea right now tbh. As long as Nexon just pays for online exposure and not TV exposure, I doubt it could become a threat to them. So I wouldn't worry too much about it right now.
It's more like kespa/ogn and gom finally saw the light, it's no longer about player rivalry when the scene itself is haemorrhaging fans at a pretty concerning rate. The disbandment of STX should set off major alarm bells that the current model is untenable.
I say this again, a unified Proleague needs to become the backbone of the sc2 scene, with maybe 2-3 individual leagues a year. That is the model that most modern sports have adopted, especially soccer. Elimination tournaments are great for viewers, but only once in a while - that is why we do not see the champions league being held 4 times a year.
this means all sc2 united => no more fighting // commin up also dota => this totaly must lead to dota + sc2 marriage , => what will absolutely lead to civil war in south korea between sc2/ dota fans and lol fans
On August 28 2013 17:09 Arceus wrote: This is hinting toward an unify teamleague more than anything else. Not only corporate giant has a seat in the board but other organization (read:non corporate-teams) can also join (read2: eSF team, Najin etc) That said, members like SKTelecom or Samsung still have a much weighted say in making decision imo
On August 28 2013 17:07 Fionn wrote: So...this means EVERYONE is KeSPA now?
They're like Dr. Pepper.
They are the GOVERNMENT
I think a lot of us knew this was going to happen even though guys like Khaldor say they don't see it happening.
On August 28 2013 22:58 FlukyS wrote: Bravo to KeSPA for keeping up with the times and adapting.
It's such a weird thing to say because the organization has always been making adjustments to the format, production, rule changes, broadcasting rights, bringing in EG-TL, hiring English casters, making the streams more readily available, etc. The hatred for the Association goes pretty deep I guess.
You'll have organizations that have no experience with eSports come in and throw money around and dictate what must be done to people with experience.
I hope this somehow works out, but when there is no competition and something is monopolized it generally doesn't work out very well as greed and other things kick in.
On August 29 2013 00:14 NuKE[vZ] wrote: This is awful... basically a monopoly.
You'll have organizations that have no experience with eSports come in and throw money around and dictate what must be done to people with experience.
I hope this somehow works out, but when there is no competition and something is monopolized it generally doesn't work out very well as greed and other things kick in.
If this "monopoly" was happening in the US or EU I would agree. But this is happening in South-Korea and I think countries like China and South-Korea benefit greatly when a single entity is in charge.
On August 28 2013 17:09 Arceus wrote: This is hinting toward an unify teamleague more than anything else. Not only corporate giant has a seat in the board but other organization (read:non corporate-teams) can also join (read2: eSF team, Najin etc) That said, members like SKTelecom or Samsung still have a much weighted say in making decision imo
On August 28 2013 17:07 Fionn wrote: So...this means EVERYONE is KeSPA now?
They're like Dr. Pepper.
They are the GOVERNMENT
I think a lot of us knew this was going to happen even though guys like Khaldor say they don't see it happening.
On August 28 2013 22:58 FlukyS wrote: Bravo to KeSPA for keeping up with the times and adapting.
It's such a weird thing to say because the organization has always been making adjustments to the format, production, rule changes, broadcasting rights, bringing in EG-TL, hiring English casters, making the streams more readily available, etc. The hatred for the Association goes pretty deep I guess.
They could have done it directly.
Imagine if they could have pulled their shit together and made a smooth transition to sc2 without all this kespa vs esf bullshitting (not allowing players to participate in gsl, their shitty end of contract rules, not willing to unite until now etc...).
Perhaps Sc2 would be the king game instead of LoL, perharps not but the sc2 korean scene would be in a much better state than it is now if not for their "competition"/"commercial" mentality. They wanted to take control over the korean scene by force and it proved harmful.
That was retarded and greedy. With that I don't trust them for anything that they will do. I'm sure we will hear about their stupid behavior again in the future.
I really, really hope ESF will give this a chance. There needs to be a unified korean scene. Can you imagine a proleague with ALL the teams? Including foreign teams? I mean... nerd chills man (and I do not use this phrase lightly).
On August 29 2013 00:14 NuKE[vZ] wrote: This is awful... basically a monopoly.
You'll have organizations that have no experience with eSports come in and throw money around and dictate what must be done to people with experience.
I hope this somehow works out, but when there is no competition and something is monopolized it generally doesn't work out very well as greed and other things kick in.
Thats not at all how it works. If you'd have actually taken the time to read the damn article you'd have seen that KeSPA is a regulating body, they make sure the interests of their members and players are protected, since everyone in SK can join them now then everyone can have a word in KeSPA and they can make sure their interests are protected. Apart from that KeSPA makes sure all organizations and players are treated fairly and get an actual salary and stuff.
Also saying they have no experience is just flat out idiotic, these are the founders of modern eSports as it is in South Korea, while some of their methods and policies might have been archaic this has all now been rectified.
I see no reason at all to worry and complain about this, its almost like complaining the ministry of transports has sole right to govern over and regulate transportation policies. This is ultimately a good thing.
On August 29 2013 00:14 NuKE[vZ] wrote: This is awful... basically a monopoly.
You'll have organizations that have no experience with eSports come in and throw money around and dictate what must be done to people with experience.
I hope this somehow works out, but when there is no competition and something is monopolized it generally doesn't work out very well as greed and other things kick in.
Thats not at all how it works. If you'd have actually taken the time to read the damn article you'd have seen that KeSPA is a regulating body, they make sure the interests of their members and players are protected, since everyone in SK can join them now then everyone can have a word in KeSPA and they can make sure their interests are protected. Apart from that KeSPA makes sure all organizations and players are treated fairly and get an actual salary and stuff.
Also saying they have no experience is just flat out idiotic, these are the founders of modern eSports as it is in South Korea, while some of their methods and policies might have been archaic this has all now been rectified.
I see no reason at all to worry and complain about this, its almost like complaining the ministry of transports has sole right to govern over and regulate transportation policies. This is ultimately a good thing.
That and every major sports league in North America is a monopoly. They receive an exception from the US government for being one, since they provide a product people want and every region has a sports team. It is how most sports leagues work, that they are regulated by a large group of interested parties.
So Kespa is open to all, but is Kespa membership now required to run an esports tournament or team? Or is that right granted by the game developer as the legal owner of IP?
If Kespa membership is not legally required, will it become a de facto requirement, since not having the benefits of being a member will put you at a competitive disadvantage against those who do?
Only time will tell I guess, unless we have more details that answer these questions. Anyone?
On August 28 2013 23:33 BLinD-RawR wrote: I wonder how it will affect my interest in the korean scene of games other than SC2.
Considering we see other Korean teams not linked to KeSPA compete in their other leagues? I don't know. I would like to see more Western teams compete over there that is for sure. It truly is a great place to hone your skills. Just need more tournaments coming out of there to make it worth while.
Oh snap we get to see a mixed Proleague, IM/MVP/Startale atleast could enter no problem they have big and stacked lineups. Well all teams could we could get more EGTL ?
On August 28 2013 21:23 c0ldfusion wrote: Does this pave the way to GSTL + Proleague merge?
Since all SC2 teams will now be on KeSPA it definitely does in a way, however the original KeSPA teams and the eSF teams need to come to some sort of an agreement.
This never was between the teams tough, this was about eSF vs KeSPA. The players were friends no matter if they were KeSPA or eSF. Perfect example of this was Flash, MC and Mvp all in Flash's booth during MLG lauhing and (what i assume was) joking.
On August 29 2013 00:14 NuKE[vZ] wrote: This is awful... basically a monopoly.
You'll have organizations that have no experience with eSports come in and throw money around and dictate what must be done to people with experience.
I hope this somehow works out, but when there is no competition and something is monopolized it generally doesn't work out very well as greed and other things kick in.
Thats not at all how it works. If you'd have actually taken the time to read the damn article you'd have seen that KeSPA is a regulating body, they make sure the interests of their members and players are protected, since everyone in SK can join them now then everyone can have a word in KeSPA and they can make sure their interests are protected. Apart from that KeSPA makes sure all organizations and players are treated fairly and get an actual salary and stuff.
Also saying they have no experience is just flat out idiotic, these are the founders of modern eSports as it is in South Korea, while some of their methods and policies might have been archaic this has all now been rectified.
I see no reason at all to worry and complain about this, its almost like complaining the ministry of transports has sole right to govern over and regulate transportation policies. This is ultimately a good thing.
That and every major sports league in North America is a monopoly. They receive an exception from the US government for being one, since they provide a product people want and every region has a sports team. It is how most sports leagues work, that they are regulated by a large group of interested parties.
That's not quite it. The reason they are "exempt" from laws is because the union and league have formed a collective agreement between the two parties. The second the union decertifies, the anti-trust allegations and lawsuits begin. Even then, there is no guarantee that anti-trust lawsuits will work since the teams are considered individual entities under the single entity that is the league. Shit gets pretty messy.
With eSports it's different since its not really the league imposing the rules but the players' association. There is also, to my knowledge, no collective agreement between the PA and the leagues as well as there being multiple leagues to enter. The monopoly case would be a very difficult point to argue due to the structure of the current system.
Source: I've taken business classes relating to this stuff. You can see what happened in the recent NHL/NFL CBA fiascos.
Dude i think this is a good thing, i really do. In the long run that is, i really hope we get a fucking Proleague. I can feel the epic Starcraft already, please have another season of sc2.
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE I'm so pumped if this comes true i will LOVE to watch Proleague next season this is going to be so SICK.
On August 28 2013 17:09 Arceus wrote: This is hinting toward an unify teamleague more than anything else. Not only corporate giant has a seat in the board but other organization (read:non corporate-teams) can also join (read2: eSF team, Najin etc) That said, members like SKTelecom or Samsung still have a much weighted say in making decision imo
On August 28 2013 17:07 Fionn wrote: So...this means EVERYONE is KeSPA now?
They're like Dr. Pepper.
They are the GOVERNMENT
I think a lot of us knew this was going to happen even though guys like Khaldor say they don't see it happening.
On August 28 2013 22:58 FlukyS wrote: Bravo to KeSPA for keeping up with the times and adapting.
It's such a weird thing to say because the organization has always been making adjustments to the format, production, rule changes, broadcasting rights, bringing in EG-TL, hiring English casters, making the streams more readily available, etc. The hatred for the Association goes pretty deep I guess.
They could have done it directly.
Imagine if they could have pulled their shit together and made a smooth transition to sc2 without all this kespa vs esf bullshitting (not allowing players to participate in gsl, their shitty end of contract rules, not willing to unite until now etc...).
Perhaps Sc2 would be the king game instead of LoL, perharps not but the sc2 korean scene would be in a much better state than it is now if not for their "competition"/"commercial" mentality. They wanted to take control over the korean scene by force and it proved harmful.
That was retarded and greedy. With that I don't trust them for anything that they will do. I'm sure we will hear about their stupid behavior again in the future.
It wouldn't, at least you came to that conclusion by the end of that thought though. As for the Korean scene, there are a lot of things that could have helped like avoiding the whole IP rights debacle with Blizzard, Blizzard spending their money more efficiently, etc. There are a lot of things that could have went differently. A lot of the animosity towards KeSPA is very misguided and a lot of that shit happened eons ago. It's time to drop it until the next snafu comes up. With that said, there are shades of grey all across the map. We can bitch and moan about every little thing each organization does all day, but that's not going to get us anywhere. You just hope each organization learns from each misdemeanor whether it was them or not. Try to stop history from repeating itself, but we all know it happens meh.
4. If game developers pay their share of membership fee, the money will be used to promote eSports, organzing amateur tournaments like the Presidential Cup, and supporting eSports teams and players. The Association will actively support the domestic amateur scene, later IeSF will join the Sports Accord, to further provide support for the globalization of eSports.
So Blizzard, Riot and Wargaming now has to pay KeSPA to have tournaments of their games featured in Korea? I don't get it.
1. KeSPA will open its doors to all organizations currently active in the South Korean eSports industry;
Can't wait to see them promoting the Sonic Starleague. This is great news for Brood War and secretly I know this is why this whole thing went down.
Hahaha please you know as well as I do Kespa isn't one to admit mistakes and reverse decisions on a whim. This is probably aimed at only at sc2 and lol. Wishful thinking
this means all sc2 united => no more fighting // commin up also dota => this totaly must lead to dota + sc2 marriage , => what will absolutely lead to civil war in south korea between sc2/ dota fans and lol fans
Why this must lead to dota 2 + sc2 marriage ? SC2 has nothing to do with LOL. Get your hate out of this thread please. Tbh, Dota 2 won't survive long in Korea, same as dota. Cheer
On August 28 2013 17:09 Arceus wrote: This is hinting toward an unify teamleague more than anything else. Not only corporate giant has a seat in the board but other organization (read:non corporate-teams) can also join (read2: eSF team, Najin etc) That said, members like SKTelecom or Samsung still have a much weighted say in making decision imo
On August 28 2013 17:07 Fionn wrote: So...this means EVERYONE is KeSPA now?
They're like Dr. Pepper.
They are the GOVERNMENT
I think a lot of us knew this was going to happen even though guys like Khaldor say they don't see it happening.
On August 28 2013 22:58 FlukyS wrote: Bravo to KeSPA for keeping up with the times and adapting.
It's such a weird thing to say because the organization has always been making adjustments to the format, production, rule changes, broadcasting rights, bringing in EG-TL, hiring English casters, making the streams more readily available, etc. The hatred for the Association goes pretty deep I guess.
They could have done it directly.
Imagine if they could have pulled their shit together and made a smooth transition to sc2 without all this kespa vs esf bullshitting (not allowing players to participate in gsl, their shitty end of contract rules, not willing to unite until now etc...).
Perhaps Sc2 would be the king game instead of LoL, perharps not but the sc2 korean scene would be in a much better state than it is now if not for their "competition"/"commercial" mentality. They wanted to take control over the korean scene by force and it proved harmful.
That was retarded and greedy. With that I don't trust them for anything that they will do. I'm sure we will hear about their stupid behavior again in the future.
It wouldn't, at least you came to that conclusion by the end of that thought though. As for the Korean scene, there are a lot of things that could have helped like avoiding the whole IP rights debacle with Blizzard, Blizzard spending their money more efficiently, etc. There are a lot of things that could have went differently. A lot of the animosity towards KeSPA is very misguided and a lot of that shit happened eons ago. It's time to drop it until the next snafu comes up. With that said, there are shades of grey all across the map. We can bitch and moan about every little thing each organization does all day, but that's not going to get us anywhere. You just hope each organization learns from each misdemeanor whether it was them or not. Try to stop history from repeating itself, but we all know it happens meh.
Not to mention that one of the primary reason why BW wasn't garnering the sponsors as previously around the inception of SC2 is because of Blizzard's firmly stance on their idea that every single one of the precedent leagues were "copyright infringing" and thus illegal. If the whole lawsuits didn't happen and Blizzard left Kespa roaming arbitrarily, BW would have still persisted due to the positive stigma around it. So the current trajectory actually proved to be actually beneficial for the SC2 "scene".
On August 29 2013 03:27 a3den wrote: So KeSPA new dictator had his friends pass a bill so they would be relevant again ? I really really despise the way koreans do shit.
The bill was passed 18 months ago, long before chairman took over KeSPA, op didn't translate the date. And this is just a new plan by him, a lot of things need to happen for this plan to work, so a fail is possible, after all this plan is very ambitious.
On August 29 2013 05:03 D4RK.EarthQuakeN wrote: Some1 needs to take charge! im confused.. does this mean EG and TL spent their entry fees when the very next season its free?
It's a security deposit, they got their money back after the season ended.
On August 29 2013 00:14 NuKE[vZ] wrote: This is awful... basically a monopoly.
You'll have organizations that have no experience with eSports come in and throw money around and dictate what must be done to people with experience.
I hope this somehow works out, but when there is no competition and something is monopolized it generally doesn't work out very well as greed and other things kick in.
Thats not at all how it works. If you'd have actually taken the time to read the damn article you'd have seen that KeSPA is a regulating body, they make sure the interests of their members and players are protected, since everyone in SK can join them now then everyone can have a word in KeSPA and they can make sure their interests are protected. Apart from that KeSPA makes sure all organizations and players are treated fairly and get an actual salary and stuff.
Also saying they have no experience is just flat out idiotic, these are the founders of modern eSports as it is in South Korea, while some of their methods and policies might have been archaic this has all now been rectified.
I see no reason at all to worry and complain about this, its almost like complaining the ministry of transports has sole right to govern over and regulate transportation policies. This is ultimately a good thing.
That and every major sports league in North America is a monopoly. They receive an exception from the US government for being one, since they provide a product people want and every region has a sports team. It is how most sports leagues work, that they are regulated by a large group of interested parties.
That's not quite it. The reason they are "exempt" from laws is because the union and league have formed a collective agreement between the two parties. The second the union decertifies, the anti-trust allegations and lawsuits begin. Even then, there is no guarantee that anti-trust lawsuits will work since the teams are considered individual entities under the single entity that is the league. Shit gets pretty messy.
With eSports it's different since its not really the league imposing the rules but the players' association. There is also, to my knowledge, no collective agreement between the PA and the leagues as well as there being multiple leagues to enter. The monopoly case would be a very difficult point to argue due to the structure of the current system.
Source: I've taken business classes relating to this stuff. You can see what happened in the recent NHL/NFL CBA fiascos.
MLB has an antitrust exemption. I believe it is the only league with one. Collective bargaining does prevent the union from filing anti-trust lawsuits until they decertify.
Teams are not considered individual entities under their league. That is just the argument that the leagues put forward. Courts have not actually ruled on the matter and the parties have always settled before the courts can rule.
On August 29 2013 00:14 NuKE[vZ] wrote: This is awful... basically a monopoly.
You'll have organizations that have no experience with eSports come in and throw money around and dictate what must be done to people with experience.
I hope this somehow works out, but when there is no competition and something is monopolized it generally doesn't work out very well as greed and other things kick in.
Thats not at all how it works. If you'd have actually taken the time to read the damn article you'd have seen that KeSPA is a regulating body, they make sure the interests of their members and players are protected, since everyone in SK can join them now then everyone can have a word in KeSPA and they can make sure their interests are protected. Apart from that KeSPA makes sure all organizations and players are treated fairly and get an actual salary and stuff.
Also saying they have no experience is just flat out idiotic, these are the founders of modern eSports as it is in South Korea, while some of their methods and policies might have been archaic this has all now been rectified.
I see no reason at all to worry and complain about this, its almost like complaining the ministry of transports has sole right to govern over and regulate transportation policies. This is ultimately a good thing.
That and every major sports league in North America is a monopoly. They receive an exception from the US government for being one, since they provide a product people want and every region has a sports team. It is how most sports leagues work, that they are regulated by a large group of interested parties.
That's not quite it. The reason they are "exempt" from laws is because the union and league have formed a collective agreement between the two parties. The second the union decertifies, the anti-trust allegations and lawsuits begin. Even then, there is no guarantee that anti-trust lawsuits will work since the teams are considered individual entities under the single entity that is the league. Shit gets pretty messy.
With eSports it's different since its not really the league imposing the rules but the players' association. There is also, to my knowledge, no collective agreement between the PA and the leagues as well as there being multiple leagues to enter. The monopoly case would be a very difficult point to argue due to the structure of the current system.
Source: I've taken business classes relating to this stuff. You can see what happened in the recent NHL/NFL CBA fiascos.
MLB has an antitrust exemption. I believe it is the only league with one. Collective bargaining does prevent the union from filing anti-trust lawsuits until they decertify.
Teams are not considered individual entities under their league. That is just the argument that the leagues put forward. Courts have not actually ruled on the matter and the parties have always settled before the courts can rule.
That's true that MLB does have a special government exemption but IIRC that was established back in the 1920's and was never been revoked. With that said, no other league is able to get this status.
With regards to the decertification of unions, the only caveat is that the decertification must be under the premise that the union leaders can no longer satisfy the needs of the union and it is better off to dissolve them. The second the NHL saw the NHLPA try to decertify, they filed lawsuits claiming that the decertification was simply a negotiating tactic and the PA was bargaining in bad faith. I wish there would have been a court resolution to this as it was a highly interesting scenario.
The other argument a players' association must put forward if they way to claim a single entity monlpoly is that the players cannot earn a comparable salary elsewhere -- there must be a lack competition. In the NHL's case, players have fled the NHL to make more money in the Swiss league and the KHL, so there are other alternatives which make antitrust lawsuits much harder to prove.
The reason I bring this up is that it may apply to eSports. If a player isn't happy with his KeSPA deal, he can always sign with a foreign team and participate in foreign tournaments. Although there is a monopoly in Korea, the fact that it is an international "sport" (I use that term loosely), means that of there are other opportunities globally, a single entity antitrust argument does not hold weight.
Enough on the business side if things, I think this will be a good move for Korean eSports. A powerful single governing entity with more structure will demonstrate a more stable landscape and may provide a more attractive marketing platform to potential sponsors.
On August 29 2013 03:27 a3den wrote: So KeSPA new dictator had his friends pass a bill so they would be relevant again ? I really really despise the way koreans do shit.
hahaha, did you really just said that koreans are the only one doing these kind of stuff?
On August 29 2013 03:27 a3den wrote: So KeSPA new dictator had his friends pass a bill so they would be relevant again ? I really really despise the way koreans do shit.
hahaha, did you really just said that koreans are the only one doing these kind of stuff?
No they aren't the only ones, far from it. Also, I wrote "dictator" but I meant "director". Quite the freudian slip there...
What I hate about this : if PL is not worth it for foreign teams (as EGTL learnt us), and eSF teams go to KeSPA for LoL, then the only possibility is that foreign teams play in GSTL with the few korean teams remaining in eSF. So from our pov (the foreign audience), the best competitive league (arguably) ends with the worst broadcaster (hello SpoTV) and the best broadcaster with a second tier league.
And still, another individual league is needed because cash prizes opportunities for SK players are mostly GSL and that's clearly not enough given the numbers of pro in SK.
On August 29 2013 00:14 NuKE[vZ] wrote: This is awful... basically a monopoly.
You'll have organizations that have no experience with eSports come in and throw money around and dictate what must be done to people with experience.
I hope this somehow works out, but when there is no competition and something is monopolized it generally doesn't work out very well as greed and other things kick in.
Thats not at all how it works. If you'd have actually taken the time to read the damn article you'd have seen that KeSPA is a regulating body, they make sure the interests of their members and players are protected, since everyone in SK can join them now then everyone can have a word in KeSPA and they can make sure their interests are protected. Apart from that KeSPA makes sure all organizations and players are treated fairly and get an actual salary and stuff.
Also saying they have no experience is just flat out idiotic, these are the founders of modern eSports as it is in South Korea, while some of their methods and policies might have been archaic this has all now been rectified.
I see no reason at all to worry and complain about this, its almost like complaining the ministry of transports has sole right to govern over and regulate transportation policies. This is ultimately a good thing.
That and every major sports league in North America is a monopoly. They receive an exception from the US government for being one, since they provide a product people want and every region has a sports team. It is how most sports leagues work, that they are regulated by a large group of interested parties.
That's not quite it. The reason they are "exempt" from laws is because the union and league have formed a collective agreement between the two parties. The second the union decertifies, the anti-trust allegations and lawsuits begin. Even then, there is no guarantee that anti-trust lawsuits will work since the teams are considered individual entities under the single entity that is the league. Shit gets pretty messy.
With eSports it's different since its not really the league imposing the rules but the players' association. There is also, to my knowledge, no collective agreement between the PA and the leagues as well as there being multiple leagues to enter. The monopoly case would be a very difficult point to argue due to the structure of the current system.
Source: I've taken business classes relating to this stuff. You can see what happened in the recent NHL/NFL CBA fiascos.
MLB has an antitrust exemption. I believe it is the only league with one. Collective bargaining does prevent the union from filing anti-trust lawsuits until they decertify.
Teams are not considered individual entities under their league. That is just the argument that the leagues put forward. Courts have not actually ruled on the matter and the parties have always settled before the courts can rule.
That's true that MLB does have a special government exemption but IIRC that was established back in the 1920's and was never been revoked. With that said, no other league is able to get this status.
With regards to the decertification of unions, the only caveat is that the decertification must be under the premise that the union leaders can no longer satisfy the needs of the union and it is better off to dissolve them. The second the NHL saw the NHLPA try to decertify, they filed lawsuits claiming that the decertification was simply a negotiating tactic and the PA was bargaining in bad faith. I wish there would have been a court resolution to this as it was a highly interesting scenario.
The other argument a players' association must put forward if they way to claim a single entity monlpoly is that the players cannot earn a comparable salary elsewhere -- there must be a lack competition. In the NHL's case, players have fled the NHL to make more money in the Swiss league and the KHL, so there are other alternatives which make antitrust lawsuits much harder to prove.
The reason I bring this up is that it may apply to eSports. If a player isn't happy with his KeSPA deal, he can always sign with a foreign team and participate in foreign tournaments. Although there is a monopoly in Korea, the fact that it is an international "sport" (I use that term loosely), means that of there are other opportunities globally, a single entity antitrust argument does not hold weight.
Enough on the business side if things, I think this will be a good move for Korean eSports. A powerful single governing entity with more structure will demonstrate a more stable landscape and may provide a more attractive marketing platform to potential sponsors.
imho we shouldn't compare KeSPA with some US sports league. they are known for doing their own weird thing and don't care about the rest of the world ... at least in team - and motors sports. (don't want to be mean it's just like that)
in most countries and most sports you'll find one association as governing body for professional as well as amateur leagues without business in mind. a monopoly without profit. and in most countries they'll even follow the rules of some international federation.
if KeSPA is run like eg. the korean football association we shouldn't worry about this stuff. they might be slow and do dump things but i can't believe they want to mess with their players.
I think its good for the Non-famous eSF players to have a Huge proleague, GSTL all-kill format kinda limits the potential of other players to play on booth.
On August 29 2013 03:27 a3den wrote: So KeSPA new dictator had his friends pass a bill so they would be relevant again ? I really really despise the way koreans do shit.
hahaha, did you really just said that koreans are the only one doing these kind of stuff?
No they aren't the only ones, far from it. Also, I wrote "dictator" but I meant "director". Quite the freudian slip there...
What I hate about this : if PL is not worth it for foreign teams (as EGTL learnt us), and eSF teams go to KeSPA for LoL, then the only possibility is that foreign teams play in GSTL with the few korean teams remaining in eSF. So from our pov (the foreign audience), the best competitive league (arguably) ends with the worst broadcaster (hello SpoTV) and the best broadcaster with a second tier league.
And still, another individual league is needed because cash prizes opportunities for SK players are mostly GSL and that's clearly not enough given the numbers of pro in SK.
You forgot OSL on individual leagues. Too bad Blizzard decided it was a good idea to not allow GSL and OSL to happen simultaneously.
At the end, proper team sponsorship and salaries are more important for the sustainability of the scene than cash prizes. So having a strengthened Proleague is a good thing. Maybe it will be possible for eSF teams to find more committed sponsors. Unless you want the Korean scene to go back a decade like in the days of GO, POS, KOR, and the like.
This sucks. Now KeSPA is going to be a commoners association instead of a professional organization.
Imagine if the NBA was now supposed to start taking in any team. What utter bullshit. Ofc NBA and KeSPA have there differences, but the point is that is an effort that KeSPA shouldn't have to out in.
Some ideas regarding this are cool. Now GOMTV can join KeSPA and run its own league and have its own rights instead of worrying about being screwed. But at the same time, this isn't even necessarily a problem solver. Is the GSL and OSL going to keep swapping turns running WCS? In the end GOM is likely to be reduced to a side tournament organizer and mainly just a broadcasting company.
KeSPA should have just stayed a professional entity. Some of eSF would have joined KeSPA soon anyways (most likely).
Call me old fashioned, but I loved the ideas of having pro gamer licenses etc. making a district differentiation between semi pro gamers and PRO gamers. Being able to focus on the main stories and being able to build them up and really celebrate them instead of having to spread the love to everyone in order to give unearned "equal opportunity" and take away from the most important aspects of professional gaming.
Now more progaming teams will be supported by the players organization called KeSPA, but they'll be much less significant so it won't make much of a real difference.
Instead of this, a global eSPA should have been formed and KeSPA should have been on it as a member.
W/e, I'm an old KeSPA fanboy. Still hope for the best for eSports, but a bit of my fire died today with this tragic event.
1. KeSPA will open its doors to all organizations currently active in the South Korean eSports industry;
Can't wait to see them promoting the Sonic Starleague. This is great news for Brood War and secretly I know this is why this whole thing went down.
Hahaha please you know as well as I do Kespa isn't one to admit mistakes and reverse decisions on a whim. This is probably aimed at only at sc2 and lol. Wishful thinking
I just want bisu to retire and dominate SSL
Unfortunately Jangbi's retirement means Bisu has no shot at SSL.
1. KeSPA will open its doors to all organizations currently active in the South Korean eSports industry;
Can't wait to see them promoting the Sonic Starleague. This is great news for Brood War and secretly I know this is why this whole thing went down.
Hahaha please you know as well as I do Kespa isn't one to admit mistakes and reverse decisions on a whim. This is probably aimed at only at sc2 and lol. Wishful thinking
I just want bisu to retire and dominate SSL
Unfortunately Jangbi's retirement means Bisu has no shot at SSL.
Jangbi doesn't really come as a threat to Bisu. SSL is not OSL so Bisu has high chances to go far when he returns.
Keep in mind, that it only says that KeSPA membership is free and open for everyone. KeSPA then authorize tournaments/leagues to various organizations, who could very well add an entry fee, a security deposit or any number of financial preconditions.
Organizations don't change their attitude over night. KeSPA has first and foremost been in place to protect the investments of the major team sponsors. They might open their structure a bit now (because they were 'forced' to), but they sure as hell did not abandon their entire purpose.
On August 29 2013 14:55 Shinta) wrote: This sucks. Now KeSPA is going to be a commoners association instead of a professional organization.
Imagine if the NBA was now supposed to start taking in any team. What utter bullshit. Ofc NBA and KeSPA have there differences, but the point is that is an effort that KeSPA shouldn't have to out in.
Some ideas regarding this are cool. Now GOMTV can join KeSPA and run its own league and have its own rights instead of worrying about being screwed. But at the same time, this isn't even necessarily a problem solver. Is the GSL and OSL going to keep swapping turns running WCS? In the end GOM is likely to be reduced to a side tournament organizer and mainly just a broadcasting company.
KeSPA should have just stayed a professional entity. Some of eSF would have joined KeSPA soon anyways (most likely).
Call me old fashioned, but I loved the ideas of having pro gamer licenses etc. making a district differentiation between semi pro gamers and PRO gamers. Being able to focus on the main stories and being able to build them up and really celebrate them instead of having to spread the love to everyone in order to give unearned "equal opportunity" and take away from the most important aspects of professional gaming.
Now more progaming teams will be supported by the players organization called KeSPA, but they'll be much less significant so it won't make much of a real difference.
Instead of this, a global eSPA should have been formed and KeSPA should have been on it as a member.
W/e, I'm an old KeSPA fanboy. Still hope for the best for eSports, but a bit of my fire died today with this tragic event.
Um what
Just because they allow anyone to join doesn't mean they allow anyone with five buddies into proleague. Just because a British football team is a member of the British football association doesn't mean they play in the premier league (or whatever).
Like, I could care less about this but your reaction makes no sense.
Also - ppl are saying "egtl plox" but if memory serves me right, the problem wasn't the entry few but having to move all the eg players to Korea and having to dedicate so much time and effort to one league with one or two games per player per week, I doubt that changing the entry fee would change eg's economic calculation. For that team, I'm sure player time (and sponsor exposure) are much more important to use efficiently than a cash entry fee.
1. KeSPA will open its doors to all organizations currently active in the South Korean eSports industry;
Can't wait to see them promoting the Sonic Starleague. This is great news for Brood War and secretly I know this is why this whole thing went down.
Hahaha please you know as well as I do Kespa isn't one to admit mistakes and reverse decisions on a whim. This is probably aimed at only at sc2 and lol. Wishful thinking
I just want bisu to retire and dominate SSL
Unfortunately Jangbi's retirement means Bisu has no shot at SSL.
On August 29 2013 03:27 a3den wrote: So KeSPA new dictator had his friends pass a bill so they would be relevant again ? I really really despise the way koreans do shit.
wut? KeSPA is more relevant than ever due to LoL and are the only organisation capable of keeping sc2 alive in the Korean E-sports scene.
1. KeSPA will open its doors to all organizations currently active in the South Korean eSports industry;
Can't wait to see them promoting the Sonic Starleague. This is great news for Brood War and secretly I know this is why this whole thing went down.
Hahaha please you know as well as I do Kespa isn't one to admit mistakes and reverse decisions on a whim. This is probably aimed at only at sc2 and lol. Wishful thinking
I just want bisu to retire and dominate SSL
Unfortunately Jangbi's retirement means Bisu has no shot at SSL.
Jangbi doesn't really come as a threat to Bisu. SSL is not OSL so Bisu has high chances to go far when he returns.
Reading through the first few parts, I was thinking, "Oh, making things open, not bad". Then I was like, "This is starting to feel like a subtle move towards world domination (of the Korean eSports world)." Then I saw someone mention it as a desperate attempt to keep more KeSpa teams from disbanding.
I'd really like to see how GOMTV and eSF feels about this. If they're totally in support for this, then I support it too. I'm all for unification of eSports and all (so we can finally have a true international league, one that will shit on the current WCS system), but KeSpa has been the bad guy in this for so long, I don't really know how to feel about any move they make regarding power (cause they've tried to subtly take more power before, so I'm hesitant to say this isn't the exact same thing, just disguised better). (As for the bad guys, I mean the organization, not the shackled teams and players who are under KeSpa's iron rule.)
This could truly be KeSpa saying, "We're tired of fighting and arguing. Let's REALLY join forces and improve Korean eSports together." I'm really hoping it is, and not another, "Okay, we'll play along with you for now, until we've slowly taken all your power away from you through constant backstabs through agreement loopholes that you hopefully won't (but totally will) notice."
On August 29 2013 14:55 Shinta) wrote: This sucks. Now KeSPA is going to be a commoners association instead of a professional organization.
Imagine if the NBA was now supposed to start taking in any team. What utter bullshit. Ofc NBA and KeSPA have there differences, but the point is that is an effort that KeSPA shouldn't have to out in.
Some ideas regarding this are cool. Now GOMTV can join KeSPA and run its own league and have its own rights instead of worrying about being screwed. But at the same time, this isn't even necessarily a problem solver. Is the GSL and OSL going to keep swapping turns running WCS? In the end GOM is likely to be reduced to a side tournament organizer and mainly just a broadcasting company.
KeSPA should have just stayed a professional entity. Some of eSF would have joined KeSPA soon anyways (most likely).
Call me old fashioned, but I loved the ideas of having pro gamer licenses etc. making a district differentiation between semi pro gamers and PRO gamers. Being able to focus on the main stories and being able to build them up and really celebrate them instead of having to spread the love to everyone in order to give unearned "equal opportunity" and take away from the most important aspects of professional gaming.
Now more progaming teams will be supported by the players organization called KeSPA, but they'll be much less significant so it won't make much of a real difference.
Instead of this, a global eSPA should have been formed and KeSPA should have been on it as a member.
W/e, I'm an old KeSPA fanboy. Still hope for the best for eSports, but a bit of my fire died today with this tragic event.
Uhhhh... What?
The NBA IS supposed to take on any team as long as it pays up. The problem is, to pay up, you need players that are either 1) really popular, or 2) keep winning so that people will be interested enough for you to generate revenue to pay everyone with. Obviously, popularity is partially linked to results. If you never win, your popularity will eventually drop to 0, and nobody pays attention to you anymore and wouldn't pay you to watch the players.
And does the distinction between pro and semi pro even matter when then semi pro is the best player in the world and consistently wins every open tournament (even with top pros in them)? On an individual level, such distinction is meaningless since it's easy to improve on such a level that you go from being a talented rookie to the top of the world (bit of an exaggeration yes, but forcing people to have licences slows down the development of the scene by bottle-necking talent at a license test (usually these tests only allow x number of people to pass each time). I mean, for this sort of 1 event test, some bad player can have an insane week, and pass, while a much better player had a bad day and gets eliminated. Then when they both become licensed pros, the better player is actually performing like a pro should, while the shitty player performs at "semi pro" level and gets shit stomped day in and day out. But hey, at least he can say he's a licensed professional. These distinctions should be allocated to who is the best x many people in the world. Those on the edge will change frequently, but those who really deserve to be there will be there more often than not, and will rise above the edge. Those who don't deserve to be there will hover around the edge for a bit, then fall off. Realistically, the bar should be below the actual number of pros you want, to account for the fluctuation on the lower end, the top actually being real pros, and the error section included being considered technical pros or those at professional level of play.
There's old fashioned for the sake of good, and then there's old fashioned for the sake of elitism. Welcome to category 2. Your opinions and values will get absolutely nothing positive done.
Rumor: SPL is delayed to next year, a Zerg player is retiring, Jangbi won't go to Afreeca, Stork is doing casting, and Samsung is recruiting a LoL team
Rumor from the famous Chinese translator wooyeon. She posts some tweets and posts in social medias that some Korean players, coaches, and casters discuss the following stuff.
First, they said SPL is delaying to next year, so that's why some players retire. But some speculate that's because of the combination of LoL SPL and thus it is delayed. A few even say SPL is canceled. Former CJ coach (the one before coach Park) expresses his disappointment in SC2.
Second, Samsung Khan is recruiting a LoL team. Stork is now casting the college league (don't know if it's SC2).
Third, Jaehoon said in his stream, one Zerg player will retire and Jangbi won't go to Afreeca.
On August 30 2013 15:56 larse wrote: Rumor: SPL is delayed to next year, a Zerg player is retiring, Jangbi won't go to Afreeca, Stork is doing casting, and Samsung is recruiting a LoL team
Rumor from the famous Chinese translator wooyeon. She posts some tweets and posts in social medias that some Korean players, coaches, and casters discuss the following stuff.
First, they said SPL is delaying to next year, so that's why some players retire. But some speculate that's because of the combination of LoL SPL and thus it is delayed. A few even say SPL is canceled. Former CJ coach (the one before coach Park) expresses his disappointment in SC2.
Second, Samsung Khan is recruiting a LoL team. Stork is now casting the college league (don't know if it's SC2).
Third, Jaehoon said in his stream, one Zerg player will retire and Jangbi won't go to Afreeca.
On August 30 2013 15:56 larse wrote: Rumor: SPL is delayed to next year, a Zerg player is retiring, Jangbi won't go to Afreeca, Stork is doing casting, and Samsung is recruiting a LoL team
Rumor from the famous Chinese translator wooyeon. She posts some tweets and posts in social medias that some Korean players, coaches, and casters discuss the following stuff.
First, they said SPL is delaying to next year, so that's why some players retire. But some speculate that's because of the combination of LoL SPL and thus it is delayed. A few even say SPL is canceled. Former CJ coach (the one before coach Park) expresses his disappointment in SC2.
Second, Samsung Khan is recruiting a LoL team. Stork is now casting the college league (don't know if it's SC2).
Third, Jaehoon said in his stream, one Zerg player will retire and Jangbi won't go to Afreeca.
The retiring Zerg is rumored to be ZerO. While JangBi not going to SRT makes me sad, might have lost all the competitive soul in him
Hey digmouse, can you do some more translation in the future from Chinese source? I was thinking about not doing it this much. I was doing it too often.
On August 30 2013 15:56 larse wrote: Rumor: SPL is delayed to next year, a Zerg player is retiring, Jangbi won't go to Afreeca, Stork is doing casting, and Samsung is recruiting a LoL team
Rumor from the famous Chinese translator wooyeon. She posts some tweets and posts in social medias that some Korean players, coaches, and casters discuss the following stuff.
First, they said SPL is delaying to next year, so that's why some players retire. But some speculate that's because of the combination of LoL SPL and thus it is delayed. A few even say SPL is canceled. Former CJ coach (the one before coach Park) expresses his disappointment in SC2.
Second, Samsung Khan is recruiting a LoL team. Stork is now casting the college league (don't know if it's SC2).
Third, Jaehoon said in his stream, one Zerg player will retire and Jangbi won't go to Afreeca.
The retiring Zerg is rumored to be ZerO. While JangBi not going to SRT makes me sad, might have lost all the competitive soul in him
Hey digmouse, can you do some more translation in the future from Chinese source? I was thinking about not doing it this much. I was doing it too often.
On August 30 2013 15:56 larse wrote: Rumor: SPL is delayed to next year, a Zerg player is retiring, Jangbi won't go to Afreeca, Stork is doing casting, and Samsung is recruiting a LoL team
Rumor from the famous Chinese translator wooyeon. She posts some tweets and posts in social medias that some Korean players, coaches, and casters discuss the following stuff.
First, they said SPL is delaying to next year, so that's why some players retire. But some speculate that's because of the combination of LoL SPL and thus it is delayed. A few even say SPL is canceled. Former CJ coach (the one before coach Park) expresses his disappointment in SC2.
Second, Samsung Khan is recruiting a LoL team. Stork is now casting the college league (don't know if it's SC2).
Third, Jaehoon said in his stream, one Zerg player will retire and Jangbi won't go to Afreeca.
The retiring Zerg is rumored to be ZerO. While JangBi not going to SRT makes me sad, might have lost all the competitive soul in him
Hey digmouse, can you do some more translation in the future from Chinese source? I was thinking about not doing it this much. I was doing it too often.
How about me doing a "This Week in China" thingy?
No no, I was talking about translating wooyeon's Korean translation, rumors, and all that. I did a lot of translation to English, but I am thinking about not doing it that often. And I hope someone can do it since sometimes on one will post them in the English speaking world.
On August 30 2013 15:56 larse wrote: Rumor: SPL is delayed to next year, a Zerg player is retiring, Jangbi won't go to Afreeca, Stork is doing casting, and Samsung is recruiting a LoL team
Rumor from the famous Chinese translator wooyeon. She posts some tweets and posts in social medias that some Korean players, coaches, and casters discuss the following stuff.
First, they said SPL is delaying to next year, so that's why some players retire. But some speculate that's because of the combination of LoL SPL and thus it is delayed. A few even say SPL is canceled. Former CJ coach (the one before coach Park) expresses his disappointment in SC2.
Second, Samsung Khan is recruiting a LoL team. Stork is now casting the college league (don't know if it's SC2).
Third, Jaehoon said in his stream, one Zerg player will retire and Jangbi won't go to Afreeca.
The retiring Zerg is rumored to be ZerO. While JangBi not going to SRT makes me sad, might have lost all the competitive soul in him
Hey digmouse, can you do some more translation in the future from Chinese source? I was thinking about not doing it this much. I was doing it too often.
How about me doing a "This Week in China" thingy?
No no, I was talking about translating wooyeon's Korean translation, rumors, and all that. I did a lot of translation to English, but I am thinking about not doing it that often. And I hope someone can do it since sometimes on one will post them in the English speaking world.
OK then I guess I'll put it as a priority. I always think TL should have someone speaking Korean that can track these things down, turns out no one is doing it, kinda surprising. DO IT WAXANGEL!
On August 30 2013 15:56 larse wrote: Rumor: SPL is delayed to next year, a Zerg player is retiring, Jangbi won't go to Afreeca, Stork is doing casting, and Samsung is recruiting a LoL team
Rumor from the famous Chinese translator wooyeon. She posts some tweets and posts in social medias that some Korean players, coaches, and casters discuss the following stuff.
First, they said SPL is delaying to next year, so that's why some players retire. But some speculate that's because of the combination of LoL SPL and thus it is delayed. A few even say SPL is canceled. Former CJ coach (the one before coach Park) expresses his disappointment in SC2.
Second, Samsung Khan is recruiting a LoL team. Stork is now casting the college league (don't know if it's SC2).
Third, Jaehoon said in his stream, one Zerg player will retire and Jangbi won't go to Afreeca.
On August 30 2013 15:56 larse wrote: Rumor: SPL is delayed to next year, a Zerg player is retiring, Jangbi won't go to Afreeca, Stork is doing casting, and Samsung is recruiting a LoL team
Rumor from the famous Chinese translator wooyeon. She posts some tweets and posts in social medias that some Korean players, coaches, and casters discuss the following stuff.
First, they said SPL is delaying to next year, so that's why some players retire. But some speculate that's because of the combination of LoL SPL and thus it is delayed. A few even say SPL is canceled. Former CJ coach (the one before coach Park) expresses his disappointment in SC2.
Second, Samsung Khan is recruiting a LoL team. Stork is now casting the college league (don't know if it's SC2).
Third, Jaehoon said in his stream, one Zerg player will retire and Jangbi won't go to Afreeca.
On August 30 2013 15:56 larse wrote: Rumor: SPL is delayed to next year, a Zerg player is retiring, Jangbi won't go to Afreeca, Stork is doing casting, and Samsung is recruiting a LoL team
Rumor from the famous Chinese translator wooyeon. She posts some tweets and posts in social medias that some Korean players, coaches, and casters discuss the following stuff.
First, they said SPL is delaying to next year, so that's why some players retire. But some speculate that's because of the combination of LoL SPL and thus it is delayed. A few even say SPL is canceled. Former CJ coach (the one before coach Park) expresses his disappointment in SC2.
Second, Samsung Khan is recruiting a LoL team. Stork is now casting the college league (don't know if it's SC2).
Third, Jaehoon said in his stream, one Zerg player will retire and Jangbi won't go to Afreeca.
The retiring Zerg is rumored to be ZerO. While JangBi not going to SRT makes me sad, might have lost all the competitive soul in him
Hey digmouse, can you do some more translation in the future from Chinese source? I was thinking about not doing it this much. I was doing it too often.
How about me doing a "This Week in China" thingy?
No no, I was talking about translating wooyeon's Korean translation, rumors, and all that. I did a lot of translation to English, but I am thinking about not doing it that often. And I hope someone can do it since sometimes on one will post them in the English speaking world.
OK then I guess I'll put it as a priority. I always think TL should have someone speaking Korean that can track these things down, turns out no one is doing it, kinda surprising. DO IT WAXANGEL!
Seeker is doing the post-match interview translation from Korean. But it can be much slower than wooyeon's. And all the rumors mostly come from wooyeon. So very few people post them. I posted a lot in both TL and reddit. You normally can't start a thread about some random rumor, but posting on reddit would be good idea. And there are some longer interview and news such as your thread here. Also, fewer people are translating them. But wooyeon is very likely to do it. And there's the NGA's fzy who does it in http://bbs.ngacn.cc/thread.php?fid=406
On August 30 2013 15:56 larse wrote: Rumor: SPL is delayed to next year, a Zerg player is retiring, Jangbi won't go to Afreeca, Stork is doing casting, and Samsung is recruiting a LoL team
Rumor from the famous Chinese translator wooyeon. She posts some tweets and posts in social medias that some Korean players, coaches, and casters discuss the following stuff.
First, they said SPL is delaying to next year, so that's why some players retire. But some speculate that's because of the combination of LoL SPL and thus it is delayed. A few even say SPL is canceled. Former CJ coach (the one before coach Park) expresses his disappointment in SC2.
Second, Samsung Khan is recruiting a LoL team. Stork is now casting the college league (don't know if it's SC2).
Third, Jaehoon said in his stream, one Zerg player will retire and Jangbi won't go to Afreeca.
The retiring Zerg is rumored to be ZerO. While JangBi not going to SRT makes me sad, might have lost all the competitive soul in him
Hey digmouse, can you do some more translation in the future from Chinese source? I was thinking about not doing it this much. I was doing it too often.
How about me doing a "This Week in China" thingy?
No no, I was talking about translating wooyeon's Korean translation, rumors, and all that. I did a lot of translation to English, but I am thinking about not doing it that often. And I hope someone can do it since sometimes on one will post them in the English speaking world.
OK then I guess I'll put it as a priority. I always think TL should have someone speaking Korean that can track these things down, turns out no one is doing it, kinda surprising. DO IT WAXANGEL!
Seeker is doing the post-match interview translation from Korean. But it can be much slower than wooyeon's. And all the rumors mostly come from wooyeon. So very few people post them. I posted a lot in both TL and reddit. You normally can't start a thread about some random rumor, but posting on reddit would be good idea. And there are some longer interview and news such as your thread here. Also, fewer people are translating them. But wooyeon is very likely to do it. And there's the NGA's fzy who does it in http://bbs.ngacn.cc/thread.php?fid=406
It's not a good idea to start threads based on rumors, but you can start a blog of rumors. Basically just update the blog OP whenever a new rumor arises.
On August 30 2013 15:56 larse wrote: Rumor: SPL is delayed to next year, a Zerg player is retiring, Jangbi won't go to Afreeca, Stork is doing casting, and Samsung is recruiting a LoL team
Rumor from the famous Chinese translator wooyeon. She posts some tweets and posts in social medias that some Korean players, coaches, and casters discuss the following stuff.
First, they said SPL is delaying to next year, so that's why some players retire. But some speculate that's because of the combination of LoL SPL and thus it is delayed. A few even say SPL is canceled. Former CJ coach (the one before coach Park) expresses his disappointment in SC2.
Second, Samsung Khan is recruiting a LoL team. Stork is now casting the college league (don't know if it's SC2).
Third, Jaehoon said in his stream, one Zerg player will retire and Jangbi won't go to Afreeca.
The retiring Zerg is rumored to be ZerO. While JangBi not going to SRT makes me sad, might have lost all the competitive soul in him
Hey digmouse, can you do some more translation in the future from Chinese source? I was thinking about not doing it this much. I was doing it too often.
How about me doing a "This Week in China" thingy?
No no, I was talking about translating wooyeon's Korean translation, rumors, and all that. I did a lot of translation to English, but I am thinking about not doing it that often. And I hope someone can do it since sometimes on one will post them in the English speaking world.
OK then I guess I'll put it as a priority. I always think TL should have someone speaking Korean that can track these things down, turns out no one is doing it, kinda surprising. DO IT WAXANGEL!
Seeker is doing the post-match interview translation from Korean. But it can be much slower than wooyeon's. And all the rumors mostly come from wooyeon. So very few people post them. I posted a lot in both TL and reddit. You normally can't start a thread about some random rumor, but posting on reddit would be good idea. And there are some longer interview and news such as your thread here. Also, fewer people are translating them. But wooyeon is very likely to do it. And there's the NGA's fzy who does it in http://bbs.ngacn.cc/thread.php?fid=406
It's not a good idea to start threads based on rumors, but you can start a blog of rumors. Basically just update the blog OP whenever a new rumor arises.
We have more than one hot threads based on rumors before and in this case those information are well more than rumors since they came from the people involving in it themselves. If it is apparent enough like what I just posted in the Innovation to Acer thread it's not necessarily not thread-worthy.
On August 30 2013 15:56 larse wrote: Rumor: SPL is delayed to next year, a Zerg player is retiring, Jangbi won't go to Afreeca, Stork is doing casting, and Samsung is recruiting a LoL team
Rumor from the famous Chinese translator wooyeon. She posts some tweets and posts in social medias that some Korean players, coaches, and casters discuss the following stuff.
First, they said SPL is delaying to next year, so that's why some players retire. But some speculate that's because of the combination of LoL SPL and thus it is delayed. A few even say SPL is canceled. Former CJ coach (the one before coach Park) expresses his disappointment in SC2.
Second, Samsung Khan is recruiting a LoL team. Stork is now casting the college league (don't know if it's SC2).
Third, Jaehoon said in his stream, one Zerg player will retire and Jangbi won't go to Afreeca.
The retiring Zerg is rumored to be ZerO. While JangBi not going to SRT makes me sad, might have lost all the competitive soul in him
Hey digmouse, can you do some more translation in the future from Chinese source? I was thinking about not doing it this much. I was doing it too often.
How about me doing a "This Week in China" thingy?
No no, I was talking about translating wooyeon's Korean translation, rumors, and all that. I did a lot of translation to English, but I am thinking about not doing it that often. And I hope someone can do it since sometimes on one will post them in the English speaking world.
OK then I guess I'll put it as a priority. I always think TL should have someone speaking Korean that can track these things down, turns out no one is doing it, kinda surprising. DO IT WAXANGEL!
Seeker is doing the post-match interview translation from Korean. But it can be much slower than wooyeon's. And all the rumors mostly come from wooyeon. So very few people post them. I posted a lot in both TL and reddit. You normally can't start a thread about some random rumor, but posting on reddit would be good idea. And there are some longer interview and news such as your thread here. Also, fewer people are translating them. But wooyeon is very likely to do it. And there's the NGA's fzy who does it in http://bbs.ngacn.cc/thread.php?fid=406
It's not a good idea to start threads based on rumors, but you can start a blog of rumors. Basically just update the blog OP whenever a new rumor arises.
We have more than one hot threads based on rumors before and in this case those information are well more than rumors since they came from the people involving in it themselves. If it is apparent enough like what I just posted in the Innovation to Acer thread it's not necessarily not thread-worthy.
On August 30 2013 15:56 larse wrote: Rumor: SPL is delayed to next year, a Zerg player is retiring, Jangbi won't go to Afreeca, Stork is doing casting, and Samsung is recruiting a LoL team
Rumor from the famous Chinese translator wooyeon. She posts some tweets and posts in social medias that some Korean players, coaches, and casters discuss the following stuff.
First, they said SPL is delaying to next year, so that's why some players retire. But some speculate that's because of the combination of LoL SPL and thus it is delayed. A few even say SPL is canceled. Former CJ coach (the one before coach Park) expresses his disappointment in SC2.
Second, Samsung Khan is recruiting a LoL team. Stork is now casting the college league (don't know if it's SC2).
Third, Jaehoon said in his stream, one Zerg player will retire and Jangbi won't go to Afreeca.
The retiring Zerg is rumored to be ZerO. While JangBi not going to SRT makes me sad, might have lost all the competitive soul in him
Hey digmouse, can you do some more translation in the future from Chinese source? I was thinking about not doing it this much. I was doing it too often.
How about me doing a "This Week in China" thingy?
No no, I was talking about translating wooyeon's Korean translation, rumors, and all that. I did a lot of translation to English, but I am thinking about not doing it that often. And I hope someone can do it since sometimes on one will post them in the English speaking world.
OK then I guess I'll put it as a priority. I always think TL should have someone speaking Korean that can track these things down, turns out no one is doing it, kinda surprising. DO IT WAXANGEL!
Seeker is doing the post-match interview translation from Korean. But it can be much slower than wooyeon's. And all the rumors mostly come from wooyeon. So very few people post them. I posted a lot in both TL and reddit. You normally can't start a thread about some random rumor, but posting on reddit would be good idea. And there are some longer interview and news such as your thread here. Also, fewer people are translating them. But wooyeon is very likely to do it. And there's the NGA's fzy who does it in http://bbs.ngacn.cc/thread.php?fid=406
It's not a good idea to start threads based on rumors, but you can start a blog of rumors. Basically just update the blog OP whenever a new rumor arises.
We have more than one hot threads based on rumors before and in this case those information are well more than rumors since they came from the people involving in it themselves. If it is apparent enough like what I just posted in the Innovation to Acer thread it's not necessarily not thread-worthy.
Is it possible that you will post on reddit too?
Sure I don't mind, it doesn't hurt anybody. And rumors go to reddit so yeah.
On August 30 2013 16:08 digmouse wrote: [quote] The retiring Zerg is rumored to be ZerO. While JangBi not going to SRT makes me sad, might have lost all the competitive soul in him
Hey digmouse, can you do some more translation in the future from Chinese source? I was thinking about not doing it this much. I was doing it too often.
How about me doing a "This Week in China" thingy?
No no, I was talking about translating wooyeon's Korean translation, rumors, and all that. I did a lot of translation to English, but I am thinking about not doing it that often. And I hope someone can do it since sometimes on one will post them in the English speaking world.
OK then I guess I'll put it as a priority. I always think TL should have someone speaking Korean that can track these things down, turns out no one is doing it, kinda surprising. DO IT WAXANGEL!
Seeker is doing the post-match interview translation from Korean. But it can be much slower than wooyeon's. And all the rumors mostly come from wooyeon. So very few people post them. I posted a lot in both TL and reddit. You normally can't start a thread about some random rumor, but posting on reddit would be good idea. And there are some longer interview and news such as your thread here. Also, fewer people are translating them. But wooyeon is very likely to do it. And there's the NGA's fzy who does it in http://bbs.ngacn.cc/thread.php?fid=406
It's not a good idea to start threads based on rumors, but you can start a blog of rumors. Basically just update the blog OP whenever a new rumor arises.
We have more than one hot threads based on rumors before and in this case those information are well more than rumors since they came from the people involving in it themselves. If it is apparent enough like what I just posted in the Innovation to Acer thread it's not necessarily not thread-worthy.
Is it possible that you will post on reddit too?
Sure I don't mind, it doesn't hurt anybody. And rumors go to reddit so yeah.
OK. Thanks. I just posted your post about STX's coach to reddit. So maybe next time it's your turn. I just want to hand it to someone, even though no one forces me to do these, but I just think people need to know more info
Tired of competing with people? Want to have everything in your realm of business go through you? Become tied to your government and force everyone to go through you. Lol this is So Kespa. Remember that meeting a long time ago about the korean Esports groups working to promote each other and not step on each others feet. Kespa was just kidding about that. Kespa is the Vladamir Putin of esports.
Bumping this thread because there have been various posts in other recent threads talking about Kespa without seeming to realise that Kespa already has undergone changes.
As new Proleague/League of Legends stuff happens, it's probably a good idea to bump the shift in Kespa structure thread so people who didn't read it first time round or have forgotten might be reminded, and we can avoid people making comments about how Kespa should change from old Kespa, when it already has.
EPT
^_^
