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Conut
Canada1026 Posts
On August 24 2013 23:14 a176 wrote: ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/thumb/1/15/Klontas_Mire_TE.jpg/569px-Klontas_Mire_TE.jpg) This is the shit that Blizzard "designs" and decides to throw it into the ladder pool for its community. And people are asking why the mapmakers leave the scene, if not the game altogether? that map is thugging man | ||
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SniXSniPe
United States1938 Posts
On August 25 2013 11:43 TheFish7 wrote: It is a real shame to think of all the wasted potential. To think that maps like derelict watcher and newkirk precinct are being used in tournaments while maps like strangewood mire get tossed aside. I mean here are guys that took melee mapping, which is basically glorified chessboard redesign, and turned it into an art form. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/V8dgol.jpg) that map honestly looks like it would lag for some of us | ||
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Sufinsil
United States760 Posts
I get the feeling from TL posts of most mapmaking teams that they verrrry butthurt whenever their maps are not used. Are there weekly cups that use your maps? Do pros help test your map and give their comments on it? If you feel like your map is the best thing since sliced bread, but no know has played it, how do people expect it to be picked for a map pool? | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
On August 25 2013 11:43 TheFish7 wrote: It is a real shame to think of all the wasted potential. To think that maps like derelict watcher and newkirk precinct are being used in tournaments while maps like strangewood mire get tossed aside. I mean here are guys that took melee mapping, which is basically glorified chessboard redesign, and turned it into an art form. To be honest, I find that Newkirk Precinct (and the Redevelopment version) provide a lot of good games so far. Taeja vs Innovation from WCS Season 2 Finals and Zero vs Trap in Proleague Finals for example. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On August 25 2013 12:05 Sufinsil wrote: Are there weekly cups that use your maps? Do pros help test your map and give their comments on it? If you feel like your map is the best thing since sliced bread, but no know has played it, how do people expect it to be picked for a map pool? The hard thing is, there are a few weekly tournaments that sometimes use community maps, but not many. They can't really get people to play the map without it being in tournaments or the TLMC. I don't blame the tournaments very heavily for not picking community maps, they have obvious reasons for doing so. It's just sad that the way Blizzard and tournaments work keeps the map pool so stale, and gives foreign community maps such little gameplay TPW, I've always enjoyed looking at your maps in the forum, and have been impressed countless times. You will be missed! | ||
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sevia
United States954 Posts
Blizzard's ladder system extends the lifespan of maps tremendously. Pros want a small & consistent set of maps to practice on, and viewers want to watch games on maps that they can play on - ladder provides a nearly-unified map pool to satisfy both groups. If ladder rotated faster, tournaments would rotate faster, and we would actually need to draw on community maps, rather than recycling the same Blizzard, GSL, and KESPA maps until they've been completely played out. The upcoming season with Frost, Yeonsu, and Polar Nights is a step in the right direction. | ||
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Qwyn
United States2779 Posts
Good job Blizzard. Good fucking job. | ||
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Tminus____
249 Posts
it was very enlightening it only drew few viewers so I post it as it may give more insight to some ^^ thx guys for taking the time, effort, everything to make starcraft even better than it was | ||
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Semmo
Korea (South)627 Posts
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yakitate304
United States655 Posts
On August 25 2013 14:02 Semmo wrote: Wait, Dream Forge Retired Too? Where's the Post? Right here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=426639 The final straw seems to be Blizzard butchering the aesthetics of Yeonsu, as well as replacing islands with destructible rock bases. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On August 24 2013 20:59 Qikz wrote: The issue with saying statements like this is that these people were never hired by anyone. I'm pretty sure the teams that make maps for Kespa/OGN are all on staff are they not? Admittedly it's still shit and it has been for a very long time, but the SC2 community thanks to terrible game design for the entirety of WoL and maybe even now cannot seem to accept that not every map has to be Ohana. I singlehandedly blame that map for the majority of problems the map making community has. Ironman I'm sorry, but you made a very stale and boring map to watch and play, yet people lapped it up for some reason and since that map and Daybreak stayed in the pool for so long, the majority of people won't accept the more off the wall maps that these teams create. Korpulu for example was by far the most interesting map in the TLMC and because it didn't resemble Daybreak/Ohana/other boring as hell easy 4 base maps, people hated it and didn't vote for it. The issues with map making outside of Korea are numerous. Blizzard may be one yes, but the community at large is the largest. Any time a map appears with 4 spawns people protest that it be made cross spawns. I mean what is the point of even bothering to make a 4P map if it's only going to have 2 sets of possible spawns? Why not just make a 2 player map? That issue alone stagnated the entire metagame in WoL due to the lack of variety in maps in WoL and is starting to do the same in HoTS too. I wish you guys the best of luck as Monitor and Terranlover made some of my favourite maps, it's a shame you all lost your passion and drive but I can understand why. I wish it didn't have to end like this ;/ I wouldnt blame the community as much, because the general design of the gameplay makes certain exciting map features rather overpowered or at least bad. There was a KeSPA map with one narrow parth around the whole map to the backdoor of the enemy base and another narrow path to the second or third base. Those chokes are far too abuseable by Forcefield and they are far too easy to defend against the massive armies of SC2. That map was a recreated BW map and had been acceptable for that other game with its lower amount of units on the battlefield. So any "narrow stuff in the middle" - which would make the terrain exciting - goes against the core concept of SC2, which is "massive battles with lots of units and crowd control spells are acceptable". As the end result the trend surely goes towards relatively boring large maps with open center and open 3rd+ bases. "The community" cant really go for non-ladder maps because it has been trained by Blizzard to be lazy and dumb and just hit the button and let the machine "think" for you to get a new opponent to play against and the only ones who would have the chance to play on new maps would be people who want to play with their friends in unranked games. Those are a tiny tiny minority of the community, because "playing for fun" has become secondary to "proving how good you are at being better than others" on the ladder. The "oh I just switched to mass producing Zerglings and Banelings and bust you now" design of the game where you need to react to a threat within a small amount of time is to blame for not being able to play for fun .... its simply too easy to produce far more than your friend with only a small switch in your focus in the game and whoever makes that switch first just overruns the opponent with no chance of defense. So playing "for fun" isnt really possible. A slow game economy and production like BW had made it much easier to play a "not-so-serious" game while NOT outpacing your friends by miles. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
I play this game a crapload and I don't think I've ever played on their maps though... | ||
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IronManSC
United States2119 Posts
It was always a pleasure working with the TPW guys from time to time. Take it easy fellas. | ||
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SidianTheBard
United States2474 Posts
If you aren't having fun mapping then why bother. I still randomly get on the editor and pump out something new and I have fun doing it. I absolute hate trying to find a layout I enjoy because that's the hardest part, but once I find that layout I like, doodading the fuck out of it is so damn enjoyable for me lol. Hell, I haven't really played sc2 for months, so I make these maps and they get played by my 2 RL friends and maybe a handful of people that see it on TL. Good enough for me. | ||
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larse
1611 Posts
It saves their money, makes the mapmaking community happy, and to be honest, most Blizzard's maps are simply not as good as maps by these top community mapmakers. | ||
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Sumadin
Denmark588 Posts
What i find problematic is the timing really. Blizzard just announced that 3 new community maps are entering ladder. They have never implemented 3 community maps at once before. At a time where map diversity is at an all time high, you choose to announce your retirement? Serriously, it sends the completely wrong message. I realise that the past 3 years have been hard, but this really is a bad move. In 6 months if we got the same map stagnation as we saw in WOL, Sure announce your long-comming retirement, but not now. | ||
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larse
1611 Posts
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2ezy
Australia17 Posts
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Ygritte
Austria51 Posts
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Mirham
Denmark44 Posts
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