On August 25 2013 11:43 TheFish7 wrote: It is a real shame to think of all the wasted potential. To think that maps like derelict watcher and newkirk precinct are being used in tournaments while maps like strangewood mire get tossed aside. I mean here are guys that took melee mapping, which is basically glorified chessboard redesign, and turned it into an art form.
that map honestly looks like it would lag for some of us
I always thought the reaction from Pros is wanting a more standard map pool between all the tournaments. For awhile it was pretty crazy to see so many different pools. But was nice if there was only 1-2 different maps.
I get the feeling from TL posts of most mapmaking teams that they verrrry butthurt whenever their maps are not used.
Are there weekly cups that use your maps? Do pros help test your map and give their comments on it? If you feel like your map is the best thing since sliced bread, but no know has played it, how do people expect it to be picked for a map pool?
On August 25 2013 11:43 TheFish7 wrote: It is a real shame to think of all the wasted potential. To think that maps like derelict watcher and newkirk precinct are being used in tournaments while maps like strangewood mire get tossed aside. I mean here are guys that took melee mapping, which is basically glorified chessboard redesign, and turned it into an art form.
To be honest, I find that Newkirk Precinct (and the Redevelopment version) provide a lot of good games so far. Taeja vs Innovation from WCS Season 2 Finals and Zero vs Trap in Proleague Finals for example.
On August 25 2013 12:05 Sufinsil wrote: Are there weekly cups that use your maps? Do pros help test your map and give their comments on it? If you feel like your map is the best thing since sliced bread, but no know has played it, how do people expect it to be picked for a map pool?
The hard thing is, there are a few weekly tournaments that sometimes use community maps, but not many. They can't really get people to play the map without it being in tournaments or the TLMC. I don't blame the tournaments very heavily for not picking community maps, they have obvious reasons for doing so. It's just sad that the way Blizzard and tournaments work keeps the map pool so stale, and gives foreign community maps such little gameplay
TPW, I've always enjoyed looking at your maps in the forum, and have been impressed countless times. You will be missed!
The supply of creative, well-designed maps far outpaces the demand for them.
Blizzard's ladder system extends the lifespan of maps tremendously. Pros want a small & consistent set of maps to practice on, and viewers want to watch games on maps that they can play on - ladder provides a nearly-unified map pool to satisfy both groups. If ladder rotated faster, tournaments would rotate faster, and we would actually need to draw on community maps, rather than recycling the same Blizzard, GSL, and KESPA maps until they've been completely played out.
The upcoming season with Frost, Yeonsu, and Polar Nights is a step in the right direction.
On August 24 2013 20:51 Vindicare605 wrote: It's really sad how little support there has been in the foreign community for mapmakers.
It's sad to see you guys go. Hopefully Blizzard gets their act together at some point and hopefully it'll be enough to bring some life back into the community.
The issue with saying statements like this is that these people were never hired by anyone. I'm pretty sure the teams that make maps for Kespa/OGN are all on staff are they not? Admittedly it's still shit and it has been for a very long time, but the SC2 community thanks to terrible game design for the entirety of WoL and maybe even now cannot seem to accept that not every map has to be Ohana. I singlehandedly blame that map for the majority of problems the map making community has.
Ironman I'm sorry, but you made a very stale and boring map to watch and play, yet people lapped it up for some reason and since that map and Daybreak stayed in the pool for so long, the majority of people won't accept the more off the wall maps that these teams create. Korpulu for example was by far the most interesting map in the TLMC and because it didn't resemble Daybreak/Ohana/other boring as hell easy 4 base maps, people hated it and didn't vote for it.
The issues with map making outside of Korea are numerous. Blizzard may be one yes, but the community at large is the largest. Any time a map appears with 4 spawns people protest that it be made cross spawns. I mean what is the point of even bothering to make a 4P map if it's only going to have 2 sets of possible spawns? Why not just make a 2 player map? That issue alone stagnated the entire metagame in WoL due to the lack of variety in maps in WoL and is starting to do the same in HoTS too.
I wish you guys the best of luck as Monitor and Terranlover made some of my favourite maps, it's a shame you all lost your passion and drive but I can understand why. I wish it didn't have to end like this ;/
I wouldnt blame the community as much, because the general design of the gameplay makes certain exciting map features rather overpowered or at least bad.
There was a KeSPA map with one narrow parth around the whole map to the backdoor of the enemy base and another narrow path to the second or third base. Those chokes are far too abuseable by Forcefield and they are far too easy to defend against the massive armies of SC2. That map was a recreated BW map and had been acceptable for that other game with its lower amount of units on the battlefield. So any "narrow stuff in the middle" - which would make the terrain exciting - goes against the core concept of SC2, which is "massive battles with lots of units and crowd control spells are acceptable". As the end result the trend surely goes towards relatively boring large maps with open center and open 3rd+ bases.
"The community" cant really go for non-ladder maps because it has been trained by Blizzard to be lazy and dumb and just hit the button and let the machine "think" for you to get a new opponent to play against and the only ones who would have the chance to play on new maps would be people who want to play with their friends in unranked games. Those are a tiny tiny minority of the community, because "playing for fun" has become secondary to "proving how good you are at being better than others" on the ladder. The "oh I just switched to mass producing Zerglings and Banelings and bust you now" design of the game where you need to react to a threat within a small amount of time is to blame for not being able to play for fun .... its simply too easy to produce far more than your friend with only a small switch in your focus in the game and whoever makes that switch first just overruns the opponent with no chance of defense. So playing "for fun" isnt really possible. A slow game economy and production like BW had made it much easier to play a "not-so-serious" game while NOT outpacing your friends by miles.
It's sad to see the map community closing the doors one by one. I remember being one of the first mappers to help start TPW way back, and boy were we burning with passion to make maps. After nearly three years and so many shortcomings and being neglected by blizzard and organizers (this goes for all map teams, not just TPW), it's really not surprising to see this happen. When fire stops receiving oxygen, the fire gets snuffed out.
It was always a pleasure working with the TPW guys from time to time. Take it easy fellas.
I agree with Plexa that this seems like a pointless thread. TPW was inactive for a looong time and then TLMC2 was announced, they came back with some new stuff and now are inactive again. I think it's ridiculous because I know if TLMC3 gets announced 95% of all these mappers will come back, working together and getting feedback from anybody and everybody. I mean, hell, that map makers skype channel is basically 1 giant team.
If you aren't having fun mapping then why bother. I still randomly get on the editor and pump out something new and I have fun doing it. I absolute hate trying to find a layout I enjoy because that's the hardest part, but once I find that layout I like, doodading the fuck out of it is so damn enjoyable for me lol. Hell, I haven't really played sc2 for months, so I make these maps and they get played by my 2 RL friends and maybe a handful of people that see it on TL. Good enough for me.
Honestly there is no need for Blizzard to make melee maps by their own internal mapmakers and I have no idea why they choose to do so. There are just so many great maps and mapmakers out there. They can easily pick and choose from the large amount of melee maps by community mapmakers.
It saves their money, makes the mapmaking community happy, and to be honest, most Blizzard's maps are simply not as good as maps by these top community mapmakers.
This seems very pointless. As have been stated by others, this team tends to only be active around the TLMC these days.
What i find problematic is the timing really. Blizzard just announced that 3 new community maps are entering ladder. They have never implemented 3 community maps at once before. At a time where map diversity is at an all time high, you choose to announce your retirement? Serriously, it sends the completely wrong message. I realise that the past 3 years have been hard, but this really is a bad move. In 6 months if we got the same map stagnation as we saw in WOL, Sure announce your long-comming retirement, but not now.
you are making maps for a game which is designed in a way that every map is extremely limited and has to be roughly the same with minimal differences. then you cry about that only boring and the same kind of maps are used. i do not understand. you picked the wrong game and didn't realize for 3 years i guess oO