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On August 25 2013 22:42 LaLuSh wrote:
SiskoGoatee that is not exactly what people have been trying to achieve. With gold you crank up people's income rates but you change very little else in their behavior. What it changes is that you need fewer workers. This is the situation BW was in. In BW, every worker harvests more compared to SC2.
The major flaw in SC2 to me is that workers harvest less money but produce more quickly, which is okay in theory, but the one big flaw is that they still cost the same supply. In both games if you get more than 80+ workers it's going to compromise your maxed out army, the difference being that 80+ BW worekrs cover far more bases than 80+ sc2 workers. There are multiple ways to approach this problem, one is simply letting workers cost half supply, another is letting bases require less workers and give mroe income much like BW or what they attempted with fighting spirit. I still feel the simplest fix is raising the supply cap to 300 or 250 because that doesn't affect the early game balance.
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Thank God. Now Blizzard can return some it's trash maps like Slag Pits and Klontas Mire to the ladder.
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Wasn't there an experiment once with having only gold bases on a version of Fighting Spirit that didn't make it?
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On August 26 2013 00:14 Grumbels wrote:
Wasn't there an experiment once with having only gold bases on a version of Fighting Spirit that didn't make it?
cut before making it to play
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On August 25 2013 16:12 larse wrote:
Because their maps didn't get to #3 in TLMC and Blizzard didn't choose their maps in Season 5?
I got second place in both TLMC's, and I quit for similar reasons. You obviously don't follow the map scene at all if you think it is because of mere jealousy.
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Did they make any known maps? :x
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On August 26 2013 01:21 NarutO wrote:
Did they make any known maps? :x Well, they were partially responsible for Ohana, and then there's Odyssey which got some play in the NASL, 'part from that not sure.
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On August 26 2013 01:17 IronManSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2013 16:12 larse wrote:
Because their maps didn't get to #3 in TLMC and Blizzard didn't choose their maps in Season 5? I got second place in both TLMC's, and I quit for similar reasons. You obviously don't follow the map scene at all if you think it is because of mere jealousy.
I love you Ironman. Ohana is probably my favorite map of all time, and it deserved to win the TLMC. It sure survived a lot longer than Korhal Compound which I knew was a bad map the first time I played it.
Blizzard not exclusively using community made maps and putting in trash maps like Slag Pits and Klontas Mire is evidence of how inept they are.
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On August 26 2013 01:21 NarutO wrote:
Did they make any known maps? :x
Not really anything that would be known to many people no.
Even tho last Teamliquid Map Contest we had 5 out of 9 finalists. But because they were all more or less "weird" maps they didn't survive the public/pro poll at the very end.
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United Kingdom12023 Posts
On August 26 2013 02:18 Ragoo wrote:Not really anything that would be known to many people no. Even tho last Teamliquid Map Contest we had 5 out of 9 finalists. But because they were all more or less "weird" maps they didn't survive the public/pro poll at the very end.
I still think the majority of maps TPW got into the final were better than the three that actually got top 3. :\
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More original at the very least. The winner in particular is so extremely unremarkable it hurts. CK back in the day actually set a new standard for maps. Frost, no one is anything remotely excited about Frost currently.
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Sad about this even if its been up there for a while.
Blizzard could have made it a lot different and actually made a system to help out the map makers and Starcraft 2 in the same time.
Make an official pool with the ladder and WCS, add in maps and taking away the oldest map forcing change and innovative play.
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Oh wow, first DF and now TPW. I know you guys have been on/off with SC2-related activity in the map cave, but I didn't expect this.  Another sad day...
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It is actually a failure on the part of foreign tournaments - all of them, and GSL too - to not use a more diverse and rotating map pool. How fucking long did we play on Cloud Kingdom and Daybreak? Lol KESPA are the ones who are competent in this area. I mean dear God why would you use the same maps for a year plus when there were so many good and creative maps available.
Shame on Dreamhack, MLG, IPL, NASL, IEM and GSL.
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On August 26 2013 13:30 Doodsmack wrote:
It is actually a failure on the part of foreign tournaments - all of them, and GSL too - to not use a more diverse and rotating map pool. How fucking long did we play on Cloud Kingdom and Daybreak? Lol KESPA are the ones who are competent in this area. I mean dear God why would you use the same maps for a year plus when there were so many good and creative maps available.
Shame on Dreamhack, MLG, IPL, NASL, IEM and GSL.
Agreed, we weren't really asking for much in my opinion. But when tournaments just ignore everything from the foreign mapping scene, and most of the korean scene, it more or less removed most of the incentive to make melee maps in the first place.
I mean, why do we make melee maps and not custom maps? Because we want to see ordinary games on the maps and improve the game itself by providing more diverse maps which look good and play well. And how do we get a melee map played by more than 10 people? We have to get it into some kind of tournament. And that is where everyone failed, mappers (though not for lack of trying), tournaments, blizzard and even the community itself failed the melee mapping scene.
Now I can't see myself making a melee map anymore. If I do make a map it will most likely be a custom map or a map for SC2BW if anything, but that is highly unlikely as it just is not worth the effort. I have not started the editor in more than one and a half year.
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@NullCurrent: Yea, that period of stagnancy in the last 6-12 months of WoL was especially bad. Basically every tournament just used the same maps they've been playing for at least a year again and again and again. It just became so boring. Not just the BL/infestor bs, but the usual map pool also stayed the same:
MLG Pro Circuit 2012 Fall Championship:
• Antiga Shipyard
• Cloud Kingdom
• Daybreak
• Entombed Valley
• Metropolis
• Shakuras Plateau
• Tal'Darim Altar
in Fall 2012!
That was the worst for me to see to be honest. Most people don't even know that there are even alternative maps that could be used right away. But because i was interested in mapping i knew exactly what we could play on instead. But there was just no map rotation at all. Now due to HotS we see some, but we'll see if it is going to last. Due to HotS the entire map pool got swapped. Hopefully we'll continue to see new maps getting introduced at a steady rate other than 1-2maps every year or so. I'm kind of afraid that we might see an period like in the end of WoL again, where a lot of people just lose interest in the game, because it became stale. Unlike LoL you can't just put new champions in the game to keep it fresh. So you're stuck with changing maps. So why not just remove 3 maps each season? The two most veto'd and the oldest map, and introduce three new ones? It's not that hard to do.
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GSL did an alright Job, but they only stuck to their own team mostly. And did have some on-off maps like Metropolis, which they only used for one season. Then they realised it was horrible and threw it out. Took the rest of the year for the other tournements to figure out.
Taldarim Altar and Shakuras did go out of flavor but Ohana took the place. And that stood still for about 8 months. MLG especially was really bad at this.
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I don't know a single person in this group and I have never heard of it, an inference of the great support map makers have.
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On August 27 2013 01:55 9-BiT wrote:
I don't know a single person in this group and I have never heard of it, an inference of the great support map makers have.
There are two reasons you've never heard of them.
1) Blizzard and tournaments shunned MANY of these maps made by not just TPW, but by every foreign map team
2) You never followed the map scene to know who any of us are
You can't say we didn't make ourselves known (or try to).
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EPT
