EPTThey said bio late-game is weak vs. protoss.
Mech vs. protoss is weak almost all-around.
Changes for balance test map live - Page 9
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pmp10
3396 Posts
They said bio late-game is weak vs. protoss. Mech vs. protoss is weak almost all-around. | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
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TXRaunchy
United States131 Posts
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archwaykitten
90 Posts
I think it would be better if they just buffed consume. If consume restored energy twice, or even three times as fast as it currently does, you could reach full energy vipers almost as fast as with this patch, while also retaining an ability that otherwise will only rarely be used. If this buffed consume ends up being too strong (since you will be able to reuse vipers again and again), you can always balance it by increasing the amount of damage the ability does to your own structures. | ||
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Mistakes
United States1102 Posts
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zelevin
United States316 Posts
On August 13 2013 04:27 renaissanceMAN wrote: Vipers will full energy? So they didn't learn anything from the HT Amulet upgrade? The f... Vipers don't have the ability to wipe out mineral lines, nor do they have the ability to do any direct damage. | ||
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NOFX
France32 Posts
On August 13 2013 04:28 SarcasmMonster wrote: Don't buff Protoss. I also endorse this plan. Yeah. Same upgrades for air/mech is actually a good thing for TvP (although it makes the game even simplier, which isn't a good thing in my opinion). Vikings and hellbats having same upgrades make hellbats with blue flame way more viable, instant 20 3-3-3 chargelots warp in will be less of a problem now. Is it me or the viper buff is a placebo thing ? (a bit like raven buff in the end of WoL), I mean zergs get viper at least at the end of midgame, never before. Making 2 evos and getting full energy out of them costs like nothing (maybe a bit in time) but it seems to me that's it a very minor buff, it's good though if more people use it anyway. (Maybe i'm missing something about this buff though). | ||
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TT1
Canada10036 Posts
On August 13 2013 05:29 URLateral wrote: LOL I hope everyone realizes now that as soon as a viper does pop it can die instantly to a feedback it doesnt matter whether or not they die.. the key is not getting any of ur units pulled. the biggest strength of vipers is to hit protoss when theyre starting to get their econ up and dont have enough units/tech to defend a brute force roach/hyd/viper attack the time it takes them to gather enough abduct energy is essential for protoss | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3491 Posts
Mech Combined: I think is pretty bad, since I would argue the game needs more upgrades, instead of less. Also I currently think Mech/Air armour upgrade should be 150/150. Viper change: This is so bad.. All units starts with 50 energy and have 200 max, you cannot just change that, because of balance, find other methods.. I'm guessing they've discussed adding an energy upgrade, but since it doesn't have any god damn building, where should they place it? I'm more for adding a Viper building at Lair tech, adding energy upgrade and blinding cloud upgrade and then lower the prize for Vipers to 100/150. | ||
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mburke0005
United States20 Posts
stop making things so fucking fast (namely zerg units, protoss warp-ins, mules, medivac speed boosts, chronoboost, injects, and other accelerative processes.) it makes the game way worse and lowers the skill ceiling. in addition it makes games less entertaining and diverse. the overseer buff is another one of those things. signed, everybody | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12461 Posts
On August 13 2013 05:30 archwaykitten wrote: The viper buff feels inelegant to me. In general Blizzard should avoid balancing the game by introducing odd exceptions like this "all spellcaster units start with 50 energy, except for vipers which start with 200". It's an even odder choice on the viper since it's the one unit in the game that can already speed up its mana regeneration through its consume ability. I think it would be better if they just buffed consume. If consume restored energy twice, or even three times as fast as it currently does, you could reach full energy vipers almost as fast as with this patch, while also retaining an ability that otherwise will only rarely be used. If this buffed consume ends up being too strong (since you will be able to reuse vipers again and again), you can always balance it by increasing the amount of damage the ability does to your own structures. Actually I kind of agree with this. It seems like the best proposition yet. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 13 2013 05:30 archwaykitten wrote: The viper buff feels inelegant to me. In general Blizzard should avoid balancing the game by introducing odd exceptions like this "all spellcaster units start with 50 energy, except for vipers which start with 200". It's an even odder choice on the viper since it's the one unit in the game that can already speed up its mana regeneration through its consume ability. I think it would be better if they just buffed consume. If consume restored energy twice, or even three times as fast as it currently does, you could reach full energy vipers almost as fast as with this patch, while also retaining an ability that otherwise will only rarely be used. If this buffed consume ends up being too strong (since you will be able to reuse vipers again and again), you can always balance it by increasing the amount of damage the ability does to your own structures. Why would anyone care if the change is “inelegant”? As long as it makes the game more interesting, what does it matter how it gets done? You should look at some Dota 2 patches and see how “inelegant” their changes are, and by that I mean, they make no fucking sense. Yet for some reason, they are awesome. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
It kind of IS useless in ZvP... I don't think I've ever been blinding clouded in any game at all... | ||
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renaissanceMAN
United States1840 Posts
On August 13 2013 05:32 TT1 wrote: it doesnt matter whether or not they die.. the key is not getting any of ur units pulled. the biggest strength of vipers is to hit protoss when theyre starting to get their econ up and dont have enough units/tech to defend a brute force roach/hyd/viper attack the time it takes them to gather enough abduct energy is essential for protoss Abduct timings stealing probes out of the mineral line | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On August 13 2013 05:32 NOFX wrote: Same upgrades for air/mech is actually a good thing for TvP (although it makes the game even simplier, which isn't a good thing in my opinion). Vikings and hellbats having same upgrades make hellbats with blue flame way more viable, instant 20 3-3-3 chargelots warp in will be less of a problem now. Hellbats are not even used in lategame TvP at high level. | ||
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MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
On August 13 2013 05:32 ejozl wrote: Overseer: Little scared this will eliminate some of the awesome dt harass at later stages, but other than that I guess it's fine, since not many Zergs get overlord speed, when they really should. Mech Combined: I think is pretty bad, since I would argue the game needs more upgrades, instead of less. Also I currently think Mech/Air armour upgrade should be 150/150. Viper change: This is so bad.. All units starts with 50 energy and have 200 max, you cannot just change that, because of balance, find other methods.. I'm guessing they've discussed adding an energy upgrade, but since it doesn't have any god damn building, where should they place it? I'm more for adding a Viper building at Lair tech, adding energy upgrade and blinding cloud upgrade and then lower the prize for Vipers to 100/150. I imagine you can put an upgrade at either the hive or infestation pit. | ||
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pmp10
3396 Posts
On August 13 2013 05:34 TheDwf wrote: Hellbats are not even used in lategame TvP at high level. I think his point is that with shared upgrades they would be. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 13 2013 05:34 TheDwf wrote: Hellbats are not even used in lategame TvP at high level. But you could be upgrading them for free now! 3/3 hellbats including with your purchase of 3/3 vikings. | ||
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syriuszonito
Poland332 Posts
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uh-oh
Hong Kong135 Posts
the overseer change is fine, although I dont see it severely affecting the over all balance. killing overseers will be harder but no one focus them down anyways unsure about combining mech/air upgrades. I suppose it makes banshee based mech play more powerful, which in turn makes vipers weaker vs mech because a banshee based mecher will have the infrastructure to get well upgraded vikings and zone out vipers. | ||
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