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goody153
44230 Posts
On August 14 2013 00:05 MstrJinbo wrote: Also blame Stardust for not choking, oh wait, he plays Protoss uhhmm WCS EU s02 ---> duckdeok DreamHack ---> Naniwa WCS AM s01 ---> Hero Asian Martial Arts "insert word here" 2013 ---> sOs | ||
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
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Penev
28503 Posts
On August 13 2013 23:50 Clbull wrote: A lot of the strength surrounding MMMM is the healing of medivacs. If you need to stim in order to get the damage out and Medivacs can't heal because they've been Abducted and sniped quickly, then you can't really do anything. Um, don't you think it might be wiser, since you have the hive anyway, to plop down an ultralisk cavern? Hell, Infestors would be better than Vipers and those don't even need a hive.. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 14 2013 00:15 [F_]aths wrote: The whine in this thread is over 9000. I especially wonder how some guys know precisely what happens with those changes. Why aren't they working in the gaming industry? Oh come on, this is SC2, where we could all design the game better than Blizzard and everything would be solved by buffing the tank. | ||
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goody153
44230 Posts
On August 14 2013 00:15 [F_]aths wrote: The whine in this thread is over 9000. I especially wonder how some guys know precisely what happens with those changes. Why aren't they working in the gaming industry? uhm ... i'm no expert but i believe you need to be a programmer who knows how to develop games to work there .. this rhetorical though don't mind | ||
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mothergoose729
United States666 Posts
Maybe terran can afford to go defensive mech into sky terran instead of maxing out on tanks? Abduct is ok against BCs and ravens, but its not awesome sauce. Blinding cloud is about 1000% more effective against mech on the offense. if you have spread tanks on high ground behind a planetary than blinding cloud just doesn't work very well, unless you are going to abudct and blind every single seige tank individually. Also, sky terran has no hard counter for zerg. The hardest part of going sky terran was getting the bases and the upgrades. Upgrade problem solved now, sounds not that bad to me. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 14 2013 00:18 goody153 wrote: uhm ... i'm no expert but i believe you need to be a programmer who knows how to develop games to work there .. this rhetorical though don't mind The ability to design a game and the ability to play it well are not directly linked. Great board game designers are not always the best at playing their games(though they are normally good). People who makes FPS games are not professionals at FPS games. People who referee professional sports or make the rules for those sports are not the professional players. | ||
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lamiller
United States92 Posts
Can we not take the worlds best player and try to make it so that a race needs to get buffed because of him... Also late game TvP is very hard for Terran except like 1 or 2 people, and its not like this buff alters the face of late game TvP it just gives Terran a very slight buff, and makes tech switching a lot easier, because right now the issue with late game TvP is the tech switching and the amount of damage out put by the Protoss. Also generally, Terran is the one that has to react to the protoss tech switch because Terran can be overly punished for blindly making a certain unit. Not to mention most of the maps that were played in the OSL final were about half Terran maps and half toss maps, and the maps that Rain won were Protoss maps minus Bel'shir Vestige where Rain massively derped and didn't realize how to defend a proxy 2 racks. I believe if that were a macro game Rain would of won. Also Rain massively derped on NewKirk, chasing after a couple of units while completely exposing his army to really poor positioning. That is another map where it is very easy once on three base for Protoss to get the advantage. Star Station is a Terran map and Andaconda shouldn't ever be played again imo. Akilon is the most balanced map and Rain dominated on the map. | ||
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
On August 14 2013 00:02 MasterDrone wrote: I'll second this. One thing to add is: MMMM have range attack. That's why Terran splitting works. In contrast, lings & bane needs to stay together so they can reach enemy units to cause damage. Splitting them as a bait will get killed & failed immediately when Terran has 2-2 and a decent amount of army. Both of you are completely ignoring the fact that 4 base T is not the issue, it's 3 base T. I don't really know why Blizzard is going with viper and overseer buffs, I don't see how it really helps, but the problem is that 3 base T can just rally endless MMMM to the most convenient Zerg base WHILE TAKING THEIR 4th, and Zerg can't do anything about it. Attacking into mines is guaranteed to cost you pretty much all your ground army, and while you're trying to rebuild your lings and blings, Terran ALREADY has 20+ marines walking toward the same base with 14+ spawning every 30 seconds, and that's not even counting mines. Zerg has lacked a meaningful, cost-effective counter to the marine since the release of the game, and with the new cheap and effective mine, it makes the marine problem even worse. That's the current problem I see in top-level TvZ. It seems like they're trying to force Zerg into using Vipers to bridge the gap, but I don't see how. Considering that nothing in that whole army is worth abducting, how fast Marines move (out of blinding cloud), the fact that blinding cloud doesn't even affect mines, I don't know how that's supposed to help. Not to mention the huge gas cost, the resource that Zerg is constantly lacking at that point in the game. I don't know WTF they're thinking. All I can say is I hope DK knows something we don't about the unit interactions involved... | ||
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Deleted User 132135
702 Posts
2. The viper change is not necessary at all. Z needs stronger counter for bio/mine not vs mech or protoss. Still it could balance out well in ZvP and probably has no effect on current ZvT. 3. The overseer change doesnt do any visible change to balance. Its ok to try it but wouldn't call it a change to balance. Also overseers might just be scouting way too fast then in general. Problems with mines should be adressed directly, not through overseer buffs. in general: I would remove blinding cloud and replace it with something else. Its the kind of spell that is either op or not used at all. Blizzard, you could just simply fix the MSC! As it anway will get fixed in the future some day why dont you do it just now? make nexus cannon shorter duration and reduce the radius of the bubble and maybe therefore reduce energy costs of the bubble. Why the hell do you have to be so bad with unit/spell design? Example: MSC initial problem: protoss loses all units when doing a bad engagement to faster counter units. solution: give MSC a teleport back that save 100% of the units when either doing a good or a bad engagements. new problems: protoss can just go full risk in attacks and teleport back, can snipe stuff and tp back, has major advantage in base trades, if mothership core dies in the process protoss its all denied, its a 0% or 100% stuff which is always bad Why dont you give the MSC a spell that does increase a bunch of units movement speed by 100% for 5-6 seconds and meanwhiles reduces unit attack speed by 50-75% that are affected (only on own units) (or maybe keep the drawback for 1-2 seconds longer than the buff, so 5-6 seconds 100% increased movement speed, 7-8 seconds decreased attack speed)? Like this protoss could get more mobile with a drawback. Protoss could retreat faster or move into battles more quickly (at least with some units) but has to perfectly time it with the attack speed reduction or have a problem. Same is forcefields: if forcefields are good you cant do anything against them, if they are bad protoss loses game instantly. Instead of adding more such mechanics you should put cool units/spells on the game that allow some inbetween, not only either 0% or 100% success. | ||
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MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
On August 14 2013 00:23 lamiller wrote: Can we not take the worlds best player and try to make it so that a race needs to get buffed because of him... Also late game TvP is very hard for Terran except like 1 or 2 people, and its not like this buff alters the face of late game TvP it just gives Terran a very slight buff, and makes tech switching a lot easier, because right now the issue with late game TvP is the tech switching and the amount of damage out put by the Protoss. Also generally, Terran is the one that has to react to the protoss tech switch because Terran can be overly punished for blindly making a certain unit. Not to mention most of the maps that were played in the OSL final were about half Terran maps and half toss maps, and the maps that Rain won were Protoss maps minus Bel'shir Vestige where Rain massively derped and didn't realize how to defend a proxy 2 racks. I believe if that were a macro game Rain would of won. Also Rain massively derped on NewKirk, chasing after a couple of units while completely exposing his army to really poor positioning. That is another map where it is very easy once on three base for Protoss to get the advantage. Star Station is a Terran map and Andaconda shouldn't ever be played again imo. Akilon is the most balanced map and Rain dominated on the map. I'm pretty sure dwf was being sarcastic in his comment. | ||
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Thalandros
Netherlands1151 Posts
 If mech upgrades were to 100% count as air upgrades, I could see that being a problem, with or without vipers. | ||
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lamiller
United States92 Posts
On August 14 2013 00:29 MstrJinbo wrote: I'm pretty sure dwf was being sarcastic in his comment. it was more referencing the guy who said Innovation had the 80% win rate so blizz should buff protoss. | ||
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Prog455
Denmark970 Posts
On August 14 2013 00:22 Plansix wrote: The ability to design a game and the ability to play it well are not directly linked. Great board game designers are not always the best at playing their games(though they are normally good). People who makes FPS games are not professionals at FPS games. People who referee professional sports or make the rules for those sports are not the professional players. There is a difference between being progamer and programmer. | ||
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Lukeeze[zR]
Switzerland6838 Posts
On August 14 2013 00:19 mothergoose729 wrote: Just a thought about vipers vs mech upgrades in tvz.... Maybe terran can afford to go defensive mech into sky terran instead of maxing out on tanks? Abduct is ok against BCs and ravens, but its not awesome sauce. Blinding cloud is about 1000% more effective against mech on the offense. if you have spread tanks on high ground behind a planetary than blinding cloud just doesn't work very well, unless you are going to abudct and blind every single seige tank individually. Also, sky terran has no hard counter for zerg. The hardest part of going sky terran was getting the bases and the upgrades. Upgrade problem solved now, sounds not that bad to me. It would be a boring meta. And if I know my opponent is turtling with a fairly low ammount of tanks because he's planning to go mass startports, I'd just siege him with SH's. | ||
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renaissanceMAN
United States1840 Posts
On August 14 2013 00:32 lamiller wrote: it was more referencing the guy who said Innovation had the 80% win rate so blizz should buff protoss. he's probably never heard of iloveoov | ||
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fireforce7
United States334 Posts
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TeeTS
Germany2762 Posts
On August 14 2013 00:01 highsis wrote: So Innovation has 80% pvt in HOTS and they still want to buff TvP in terran's favour. Hm.... TvP is almost 50% in Korean scene(proleague, GSL, OSL premier, GSTL) and it tips to T's favour as you go higher, as proven with 2 TvP finals where P got crushed completely. Best PvTer Rain had something like 60% winrate in HOTS vs terran. This patch will make more terran appearance in north america/europe WCS, and probably good distribution of race in korea upto ro16 or so, but in the end by ro8 or 4 terran will always trump protoss with the patch. It's damn reckless. Protoss hasn't won single Korean tourney since HOTS launch. WTH, Blizzard? So with this in racial balance will look good on surface, but terran will win all the time vs toss in higher rounds. you really think that 2-4 more damage on hellbats will make a big difference? really? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 14 2013 00:35 Prog455 wrote: There is a difference between being progamer and programmer. I see what you did there, autocorrect would be proud And you are right, but people forget that the ability to play a game does not mean that you could design one of the same quality. | ||
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