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On August 13 2013 20:53 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 20:52 Incognoto wrote:On August 13 2013 20:23 TheDwf wrote:On August 13 2013 20:13 Dingodile wrote:On August 13 2013 20:02 Faust852 wrote:On August 13 2013 19:34 goody153 wrote:On August 13 2013 19:26 Faust852 wrote:
Meh @people saying that T is favor against Z only based on Polt and Innovation's performances. It's been 3 lists already on Aligulac that zerg is a little bit ahead in stats (around 48% for T). i think its T favored although innovations performance is not an argument to tvz imbalance .. innovation is plainly broken .. seriously the guys just too good Not if you look at aligulac, it's been 1 month that zerg is ahead, by a very thin margin, not enough to consider it imbalanced at all. Anyway, people keep complaining about the impossibility to reach Hive tech, but all in all, it only cost 300 gas, I don't think it affect that much the mutaball to have 3 delayed mutas for a short period of time. I don't know, as a Terran player, when I play zergs that keep playing with t2 unit (gling ban mutas, not roach hydra), I win quite convincingly but if the zerg get an early hive (14-15min), i became quite hard for me to deal with ultralisk, especially if i'm not aware of it and I don't have enough marauders in time. You say here exactly the problem what I see for 1-2months. As many people said, Terrans attacks Zerg permanently that zerg has to build units permanently so that zerg hasnt enough minerals and gas for hive. This is the goal from Terran (no hive), because this is the easiest way to win vs zerg. Not even the best Zergs in the world constantly keep their resources below 300/250 during midgame. I saw countless times things like "10 mutas" in production, meaning Zerg had banked 1k/1k for quite some time, yet Zergs never have 100/100 then 200/150 to tech Hive before 20 minuts? I don't buy that. They bank 1k/1k because their goal is to get out 10 mutas as soon as their spire finishes generally. Don't underestimate Hive cost, it might be 200/150 but you still have to actually buy the upgrades. 300/300 x2 + 150/150 + 200/150 is the actual cost of getting to Hive, to get 3/3, Ultra Carapace and Hive itself. I was obviously not talking about the first mutas.
Ah, I see. Still, Hive and tech is quite expensive and it's far more than just 200/150, Hive tech is a substantial investment mind you. That was my point, sorry if i misunderstood you.
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On August 13 2013 20:23 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 20:13 Dingodile wrote:On August 13 2013 20:02 Faust852 wrote:On August 13 2013 19:34 goody153 wrote:On August 13 2013 19:26 Faust852 wrote:
Meh @people saying that T is favor against Z only based on Polt and Innovation's performances. It's been 3 lists already on Aligulac that zerg is a little bit ahead in stats (around 48% for T). i think its T favored although innovations performance is not an argument to tvz imbalance .. innovation is plainly broken .. seriously the guys just too good Not if you look at aligulac, it's been 1 month that zerg is ahead, by a very thin margin, not enough to consider it imbalanced at all. Anyway, people keep complaining about the impossibility to reach Hive tech, but all in all, it only cost 300 gas, I don't think it affect that much the mutaball to have 3 delayed mutas for a short period of time. I don't know, as a Terran player, when I play zergs that keep playing with t2 unit (gling ban mutas, not roach hydra), I win quite convincingly but if the zerg get an early hive (14-15min), i became quite hard for me to deal with ultralisk, especially if i'm not aware of it and I don't have enough marauders in time. You say here exactly the problem what I see for 1-2months. As many people said, Terrans attacks Zerg permanently that zerg has to build units permanently so that zerg hasnt enough minerals and gas for hive. This is the goal from Terran (no hive), because this is the easiest way to win vs zerg. Not even the best Zergs in the world constantly keep their resources below 300/250 during midgame. I saw countless times things like "10 mutas" in production, meaning Zerg had banked 1k/1k for quite some time, yet Zergs never have 100/100 then 200/150 to tech Hive before 20 minuts? I don't buy that.
because if you mess up one engagement, you want to replace the army with banelings and mutas and not have the gas stocked up for hive and upgrades
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On August 13 2013 20:56 Foxxan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 20:53 TheDwf wrote:On August 13 2013 20:52 Incognoto wrote:On August 13 2013 20:23 TheDwf wrote:On August 13 2013 20:13 Dingodile wrote:On August 13 2013 20:02 Faust852 wrote:On August 13 2013 19:34 goody153 wrote:On August 13 2013 19:26 Faust852 wrote:
Meh @people saying that T is favor against Z only based on Polt and Innovation's performances. It's been 3 lists already on Aligulac that zerg is a little bit ahead in stats (around 48% for T). i think its T favored although innovations performance is not an argument to tvz imbalance .. innovation is plainly broken .. seriously the guys just too good Not if you look at aligulac, it's been 1 month that zerg is ahead, by a very thin margin, not enough to consider it imbalanced at all. Anyway, people keep complaining about the impossibility to reach Hive tech, but all in all, it only cost 300 gas, I don't think it affect that much the mutaball to have 3 delayed mutas for a short period of time. I don't know, as a Terran player, when I play zergs that keep playing with t2 unit (gling ban mutas, not roach hydra), I win quite convincingly but if the zerg get an early hive (14-15min), i became quite hard for me to deal with ultralisk, especially if i'm not aware of it and I don't have enough marauders in time. You say here exactly the problem what I see for 1-2months. As many people said, Terrans attacks Zerg permanently that zerg has to build units permanently so that zerg hasnt enough minerals and gas for hive. This is the goal from Terran (no hive), because this is the easiest way to win vs zerg. Not even the best Zergs in the world constantly keep their resources below 300/250 during midgame. I saw countless times things like "10 mutas" in production, meaning Zerg had banked 1k/1k for quite some time, yet Zergs never have 100/100 then 200/150 to tech Hive before 20 minuts? I don't buy that. They bank 1k/1k because their goal is to get out 10 mutas as soon as their spire finishes generally. Don't underestimate Hive cost, it might be 200/150 but you still have to actually buy the upgrades. 300/300 x2 + 150/150 + 200/150 is the actual cost of getting to Hive, to get 3/3, Ultra Carapace and Hive itself. I was obviously not talking about the first mutas. You still dont buy it? how much gas for hive? is it 350 total? Then you need 500gas to upgrade 3-3 for your lings and adrenalinerush 200 gas mutas 3upgrade 250gas you understand why zergs dont rush to hive now faster? Its not that it only costs 350gas but additional gas there AND YES, zerg needs way more gas than terran to fight in battle... YES ITS TRUE!!!!!
T needs gas? That's new... when? when they produce marines at 0 gas cost? or marauders at 25 gas? widow mines 25 gas? Or just for the medivacs that with the bust are just not killable cause they go to a mine field and gl to chase them? T bronze league hero attack!
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full energy seems a bit much...
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On August 13 2013 20:54 Foxxan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 20:50 DidYuhim wrote:On August 13 2013 18:38 SsDrKosS wrote:On August 13 2013 18:31 DidYuhim wrote:On August 13 2013 04:28 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 04:27 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Vipers will full energy? So they didn't learn anything from the HT Amulet upgrade?
The f... Oh its fine, they don't have storm. Lets talk about Hellbats and vikings upgrading as one. Hellbat/marauder/viking to rule them all. oh @#$! I realised that now  for me, viper change was just tooo great. I thought they once did this kind of patch (combining ground and air upgrades) earlier, didn't they? Why they are doing it again?  They combined armor upgrades, not attack upgrades. No they combined attack upgrade also, get your facts straight
They had combined both of them in the beta yes, then changed it so only the armour upgrades were together. I'm interested in seeing how it works out in the live version.
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Vipers is my favourite unit. So any buffs for it are cool. And abducts mmmm ... yummy
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On August 13 2013 20:56 Foxxan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 20:53 TheDwf wrote:On August 13 2013 20:52 Incognoto wrote:On August 13 2013 20:23 TheDwf wrote:On August 13 2013 20:13 Dingodile wrote:On August 13 2013 20:02 Faust852 wrote:On August 13 2013 19:34 goody153 wrote:On August 13 2013 19:26 Faust852 wrote:
Meh @people saying that T is favor against Z only based on Polt and Innovation's performances. It's been 3 lists already on Aligulac that zerg is a little bit ahead in stats (around 48% for T). i think its T favored although innovations performance is not an argument to tvz imbalance .. innovation is plainly broken .. seriously the guys just too good Not if you look at aligulac, it's been 1 month that zerg is ahead, by a very thin margin, not enough to consider it imbalanced at all. Anyway, people keep complaining about the impossibility to reach Hive tech, but all in all, it only cost 300 gas, I don't think it affect that much the mutaball to have 3 delayed mutas for a short period of time. I don't know, as a Terran player, when I play zergs that keep playing with t2 unit (gling ban mutas, not roach hydra), I win quite convincingly but if the zerg get an early hive (14-15min), i became quite hard for me to deal with ultralisk, especially if i'm not aware of it and I don't have enough marauders in time. You say here exactly the problem what I see for 1-2months. As many people said, Terrans attacks Zerg permanently that zerg has to build units permanently so that zerg hasnt enough minerals and gas for hive. This is the goal from Terran (no hive), because this is the easiest way to win vs zerg. Not even the best Zergs in the world constantly keep their resources below 300/250 during midgame. I saw countless times things like "10 mutas" in production, meaning Zerg had banked 1k/1k for quite some time, yet Zergs never have 100/100 then 200/150 to tech Hive before 20 minuts? I don't buy that. They bank 1k/1k because their goal is to get out 10 mutas as soon as their spire finishes generally. Don't underestimate Hive cost, it might be 200/150 but you still have to actually buy the upgrades. 300/300 x2 + 150/150 + 200/150 is the actual cost of getting to Hive, to get 3/3, Ultra Carapace and Hive itself. I was obviously not talking about the first mutas. You still dont buy it? how much gas for hive? is it 350 total? Then you need 500gas to upgrade 3-3 for your lings and adrenalinerush 200 gas mutas 3upgrade 250gas you understand why zergs dont rush to hive now faster? Its not that it only costs 350gas but additional gas there AND YES, zerg needs way more gas than terran to fight in battle... YES ITS TRUE!!!!!
IP 100 gas
50 seconds later:
Hive 150 gas
100 seconds later:
Upgrades (+3,+3, adrenal glands): 700
That means you have the gas costs distributed across nearly 3 minutes. You'll be at least on 4 bases at the time, so it's less than 1 minute's gas cost if you get every single upgrade immediately.
P.S. Shouting (allcaps) like a madman just makes you look silly.
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On August 13 2013 20:36 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 20:24 YyapSsap wrote:
Blizzard doesn't have to nerf the widow mine but rather buff something on the zerg side to handle the relentless onslaught of marine/mines.
Blizzard doesn't have to nerf the widow mine to make T players use tanks, but rather buff the tank so that theres a different advantage in going tanks over widow mines i.e. diversifying the matchup more. And why wont that "buff" just make the unit buffed too strong against everything else ... and thus screw over the whole balance again (even against Protoss)? I hope you arent suggesting any stupid "+ vs Widow Mines" changes ... Only trying to fix a game by buffing stuff DOES NOT WORK because it starts a spiral of adjustments and really destabilises everything. Btw ... tanks are SHIT because they are produced slowly and deal ridiculous damage to everything non-armored. Thats why Terrans dont use them, but Blizzard is happy about it because they dont like mech and dont want us playing it (except for fun).
Im not suggesting any of those. Lets just think about it for a second.
Binding cloud changed to a spell that halves the range of all range units within the AOE and buff the zerg units under the cloud with an armor bonus (+2? or some sort of a defensive buff). Basically you could use this to neutralize ranged units in a battle somewhat, create a safepath for your units to retreat away from (or attacking into). This would somewhat help lings vs 3/3 marines.
Tell me how this would screw over the balance? For me it would bring more dynamics to the late game TvZ and give zerg an incentive to really go to hive before the 3/3 marine+bio gets outta control. Same vs PvZ where you could use vipers to reduce incoming damage.
They could do something to the infestor, so that it helps them bridge lair to hive transition. Maybe instead of fungal doing damage + stun, how about a slow + armour reduction AOE spell? would nullify the armor ups on the marines and help the lings/blings and NOT make infestors become their former WoL selves.
Ultimately, tanks need a buff. Whether their splash works like widow mines along with a supply/cost reduction, or they are back to dealing 60 damage all round I have no clue but there are ways to make them good and warrant all the anti tank units that are in the game.
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On August 13 2013 20:56 Foxxan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 20:53 TheDwf wrote:On August 13 2013 20:52 Incognoto wrote:On August 13 2013 20:23 TheDwf wrote:On August 13 2013 20:13 Dingodile wrote:On August 13 2013 20:02 Faust852 wrote:On August 13 2013 19:34 goody153 wrote:On August 13 2013 19:26 Faust852 wrote:
Meh @people saying that T is favor against Z only based on Polt and Innovation's performances. It's been 3 lists already on Aligulac that zerg is a little bit ahead in stats (around 48% for T). i think its T favored although innovations performance is not an argument to tvz imbalance .. innovation is plainly broken .. seriously the guys just too good Not if you look at aligulac, it's been 1 month that zerg is ahead, by a very thin margin, not enough to consider it imbalanced at all. Anyway, people keep complaining about the impossibility to reach Hive tech, but all in all, it only cost 300 gas, I don't think it affect that much the mutaball to have 3 delayed mutas for a short period of time. I don't know, as a Terran player, when I play zergs that keep playing with t2 unit (gling ban mutas, not roach hydra), I win quite convincingly but if the zerg get an early hive (14-15min), i became quite hard for me to deal with ultralisk, especially if i'm not aware of it and I don't have enough marauders in time. You say here exactly the problem what I see for 1-2months. As many people said, Terrans attacks Zerg permanently that zerg has to build units permanently so that zerg hasnt enough minerals and gas for hive. This is the goal from Terran (no hive), because this is the easiest way to win vs zerg. Not even the best Zergs in the world constantly keep their resources below 300/250 during midgame. I saw countless times things like "10 mutas" in production, meaning Zerg had banked 1k/1k for quite some time, yet Zergs never have 100/100 then 200/150 to tech Hive before 20 minuts? I don't buy that. They bank 1k/1k because their goal is to get out 10 mutas as soon as their spire finishes generally. Don't underestimate Hive cost, it might be 200/150 but you still have to actually buy the upgrades. 300/300 x2 + 150/150 + 200/150 is the actual cost of getting to Hive, to get 3/3, Ultra Carapace and Hive itself. I was obviously not talking about the first mutas. You still dont buy it? how much gas for hive? is it 350 total? Then you need 500gas to upgrade 3-3 for your lings and adrenalinerush 200 gas mutas 3upgrade 250gas you understand why zergs dont rush to hive now faster? Its not that it only costs 350gas but additional gas there AND YES, zerg needs way more gas than terran to fight in battle... YES ITS TRUE!!!!!
thats pretty greedy you know? maybe get hive first (its not expensive a factory with reactor costs the same) and then step by step maybe adrenal first, or 3 / 3, or an ultra cavern? why do you think you should be able to upgrade everything on hivetech at once?
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On August 13 2013 20:56 Foxxan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 20:53 TheDwf wrote:On August 13 2013 20:52 Incognoto wrote:On August 13 2013 20:23 TheDwf wrote:On August 13 2013 20:13 Dingodile wrote:On August 13 2013 20:02 Faust852 wrote:On August 13 2013 19:34 goody153 wrote:On August 13 2013 19:26 Faust852 wrote:
Meh @people saying that T is favor against Z only based on Polt and Innovation's performances. It's been 3 lists already on Aligulac that zerg is a little bit ahead in stats (around 48% for T). i think its T favored although innovations performance is not an argument to tvz imbalance .. innovation is plainly broken .. seriously the guys just too good Not if you look at aligulac, it's been 1 month that zerg is ahead, by a very thin margin, not enough to consider it imbalanced at all. Anyway, people keep complaining about the impossibility to reach Hive tech, but all in all, it only cost 300 gas, I don't think it affect that much the mutaball to have 3 delayed mutas for a short period of time. I don't know, as a Terran player, when I play zergs that keep playing with t2 unit (gling ban mutas, not roach hydra), I win quite convincingly but if the zerg get an early hive (14-15min), i became quite hard for me to deal with ultralisk, especially if i'm not aware of it and I don't have enough marauders in time. You say here exactly the problem what I see for 1-2months. As many people said, Terrans attacks Zerg permanently that zerg has to build units permanently so that zerg hasnt enough minerals and gas for hive. This is the goal from Terran (no hive), because this is the easiest way to win vs zerg. Not even the best Zergs in the world constantly keep their resources below 300/250 during midgame. I saw countless times things like "10 mutas" in production, meaning Zerg had banked 1k/1k for quite some time, yet Zergs never have 100/100 then 200/150 to tech Hive before 20 minuts? I don't buy that. They bank 1k/1k because their goal is to get out 10 mutas as soon as their spire finishes generally. Don't underestimate Hive cost, it might be 200/150 but you still have to actually buy the upgrades. 300/300 x2 + 150/150 + 200/150 is the actual cost of getting to Hive, to get 3/3, Ultra Carapace and Hive itself. I was obviously not talking about the first mutas. You still dont buy it? how much gas for hive? is it 350 total? Then you need 500gas to upgrade 3-3 for your lings and adrenalinerush 200 gas mutas 3upgrade 250gas you understand why zergs dont rush to hive now faster? Its not that it only costs 350gas but additional gas there AND YES, zerg needs way more gas than terran to fight in battle... YES ITS TRUE!!!!!
Absolutely. Getting hive itself is a big investment but nothing happens when your hive completes right? This investment does not pay off until you get some kind of hive tech (3-3 upgrades or ultras). This costs even more money.
If you want to get 3-3 upgrades immediately, you must start your infestation pit at the same time as starting your 2-2, which is even more gas taken away from your muta ball. If terran catches wind of this, the initial timing at 11:30 with two medivacs will keep you in your base with no presence on the map for a very long time and terran can take a fourth base.
Infestation pit (100 gas) and Hive (150 gas) put you behind in gas roughly 25 seconds if mining off 3 base, which can be a long time against an aggressive terran. Not to mention you have to invest more gas in banelings than they invest in widow mines/marauders.
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On August 13 2013 20:53 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 20:52 Incognoto wrote:On August 13 2013 20:23 TheDwf wrote:On August 13 2013 20:13 Dingodile wrote:On August 13 2013 20:02 Faust852 wrote:On August 13 2013 19:34 goody153 wrote:On August 13 2013 19:26 Faust852 wrote:
Meh @people saying that T is favor against Z only based on Polt and Innovation's performances. It's been 3 lists already on Aligulac that zerg is a little bit ahead in stats (around 48% for T). i think its T favored although innovations performance is not an argument to tvz imbalance .. innovation is plainly broken .. seriously the guys just too good Not if you look at aligulac, it's been 1 month that zerg is ahead, by a very thin margin, not enough to consider it imbalanced at all. Anyway, people keep complaining about the impossibility to reach Hive tech, but all in all, it only cost 300 gas, I don't think it affect that much the mutaball to have 3 delayed mutas for a short period of time. I don't know, as a Terran player, when I play zergs that keep playing with t2 unit (gling ban mutas, not roach hydra), I win quite convincingly but if the zerg get an early hive (14-15min), i became quite hard for me to deal with ultralisk, especially if i'm not aware of it and I don't have enough marauders in time. You say here exactly the problem what I see for 1-2months. As many people said, Terrans attacks Zerg permanently that zerg has to build units permanently so that zerg hasnt enough minerals and gas for hive. This is the goal from Terran (no hive), because this is the easiest way to win vs zerg. Not even the best Zergs in the world constantly keep their resources below 300/250 during midgame. I saw countless times things like "10 mutas" in production, meaning Zerg had banked 1k/1k for quite some time, yet Zergs never have 100/100 then 200/150 to tech Hive before 20 minuts? I don't buy that. They bank 1k/1k because their goal is to get out 10 mutas as soon as their spire finishes generally. Don't underestimate Hive cost, it might be 200/150 but you still have to actually buy the upgrades. 300/300 x2 + 150/150 + 200/150 is the actual cost of getting to Hive, to get 3/3, Ultra Carapace and Hive itself. I was obviously not talking about the first mutas.
It does not matter if it is first, second or a third pack of mutas. When zerg's inject cycle completes (on 3 hatch) he gets 12-15 larvae available at the very second.
It would be good to use it all as fast as possible, this means he needs 1200/1200+ banked to go mutas, 1200/600+ to go hydras and so on.
Banking resources is a necessity if a zerg wants to make units at a certain stage of the game. Same goes for protoss, you need a ton of resources banked to warp in of 10+ gates.
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On August 13 2013 21:10 Naphal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 20:56 Foxxan wrote:On August 13 2013 20:53 TheDwf wrote:On August 13 2013 20:52 Incognoto wrote:On August 13 2013 20:23 TheDwf wrote:On August 13 2013 20:13 Dingodile wrote:On August 13 2013 20:02 Faust852 wrote:On August 13 2013 19:34 goody153 wrote:On August 13 2013 19:26 Faust852 wrote:
Meh @people saying that T is favor against Z only based on Polt and Innovation's performances. It's been 3 lists already on Aligulac that zerg is a little bit ahead in stats (around 48% for T). i think its T favored although innovations performance is not an argument to tvz imbalance .. innovation is plainly broken .. seriously the guys just too good Not if you look at aligulac, it's been 1 month that zerg is ahead, by a very thin margin, not enough to consider it imbalanced at all. Anyway, people keep complaining about the impossibility to reach Hive tech, but all in all, it only cost 300 gas, I don't think it affect that much the mutaball to have 3 delayed mutas for a short period of time. I don't know, as a Terran player, when I play zergs that keep playing with t2 unit (gling ban mutas, not roach hydra), I win quite convincingly but if the zerg get an early hive (14-15min), i became quite hard for me to deal with ultralisk, especially if i'm not aware of it and I don't have enough marauders in time. You say here exactly the problem what I see for 1-2months. As many people said, Terrans attacks Zerg permanently that zerg has to build units permanently so that zerg hasnt enough minerals and gas for hive. This is the goal from Terran (no hive), because this is the easiest way to win vs zerg. Not even the best Zergs in the world constantly keep their resources below 300/250 during midgame. I saw countless times things like "10 mutas" in production, meaning Zerg had banked 1k/1k for quite some time, yet Zergs never have 100/100 then 200/150 to tech Hive before 20 minuts? I don't buy that. They bank 1k/1k because their goal is to get out 10 mutas as soon as their spire finishes generally. Don't underestimate Hive cost, it might be 200/150 but you still have to actually buy the upgrades. 300/300 x2 + 150/150 + 200/150 is the actual cost of getting to Hive, to get 3/3, Ultra Carapace and Hive itself. I was obviously not talking about the first mutas. You still dont buy it? how much gas for hive? is it 350 total? Then you need 500gas to upgrade 3-3 for your lings and adrenalinerush 200 gas mutas 3upgrade 250gas you understand why zergs dont rush to hive now faster? Its not that it only costs 350gas but additional gas there AND YES, zerg needs way more gas than terran to fight in battle... YES ITS TRUE!!!!! thats pretty greedy you know? maybe get hive first (its not expensive a factory with reactor costs the same) and then step by step maybe adrenal first, or 3 / 3, or an ultra cavern? why do you think you should be able to upgrade everything on hivetech at once?
Well, then you invest in Hive tech and have barely any benefit. Once sou hit Hive you really need to get Hive tech going, otherwise the investment for the Hive itself weights even more and in the clashs you still look kinda bad.
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On August 13 2013 17:56 Snowbear wrote:I'm getting SICK of all these zergs acting like TvZ is TERRAN FAVOURED. Stop that. Seriously. Check out the GM ladder and you will notice how zergs are doing BETTER against terrans than terrans are doing against zerg. Yes, some zergs are losing in tournaments. But god forbid that the terrans they lose to are just better! I also wondered why those zergs don't constantly link aligulac reports, like they did a month ago. Then I checked the site and I saw TvZ 51%. http://aligulac.com/reports. Seriously guys??? Trying to create the end of WOL all over again? Blizz is nice and gives a faster overseer and better vipers, but if you read the zerg comments then " it is not enough". Really, what is wrong with you guys? So sad that 1 unit forces zerg micro, and oooohh it has to go down ASAP! So sad Go ask any highmaster - grandmaster terran about his TvZ. A lot of them will tell you the story about TvZ being their worst matchup, or as good as their other. But their best matchup? No.
Foreign zerg just cant micro for shit. You are korean you cant understand.
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On August 13 2013 21:13 Swisslink wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 21:10 Naphal wrote:On August 13 2013 20:56 Foxxan wrote:On August 13 2013 20:53 TheDwf wrote:On August 13 2013 20:52 Incognoto wrote:On August 13 2013 20:23 TheDwf wrote:On August 13 2013 20:13 Dingodile wrote:On August 13 2013 20:02 Faust852 wrote:On August 13 2013 19:34 goody153 wrote:On August 13 2013 19:26 Faust852 wrote:
Meh @people saying that T is favor against Z only based on Polt and Innovation's performances. It's been 3 lists already on Aligulac that zerg is a little bit ahead in stats (around 48% for T). i think its T favored although innovations performance is not an argument to tvz imbalance .. innovation is plainly broken .. seriously the guys just too good Not if you look at aligulac, it's been 1 month that zerg is ahead, by a very thin margin, not enough to consider it imbalanced at all. Anyway, people keep complaining about the impossibility to reach Hive tech, but all in all, it only cost 300 gas, I don't think it affect that much the mutaball to have 3 delayed mutas for a short period of time. I don't know, as a Terran player, when I play zergs that keep playing with t2 unit (gling ban mutas, not roach hydra), I win quite convincingly but if the zerg get an early hive (14-15min), i became quite hard for me to deal with ultralisk, especially if i'm not aware of it and I don't have enough marauders in time. You say here exactly the problem what I see for 1-2months. As many people said, Terrans attacks Zerg permanently that zerg has to build units permanently so that zerg hasnt enough minerals and gas for hive. This is the goal from Terran (no hive), because this is the easiest way to win vs zerg. Not even the best Zergs in the world constantly keep their resources below 300/250 during midgame. I saw countless times things like "10 mutas" in production, meaning Zerg had banked 1k/1k for quite some time, yet Zergs never have 100/100 then 200/150 to tech Hive before 20 minuts? I don't buy that. They bank 1k/1k because their goal is to get out 10 mutas as soon as their spire finishes generally. Don't underestimate Hive cost, it might be 200/150 but you still have to actually buy the upgrades. 300/300 x2 + 150/150 + 200/150 is the actual cost of getting to Hive, to get 3/3, Ultra Carapace and Hive itself. I was obviously not talking about the first mutas. You still dont buy it? how much gas for hive? is it 350 total? Then you need 500gas to upgrade 3-3 for your lings and adrenalinerush 200 gas mutas 3upgrade 250gas you understand why zergs dont rush to hive now faster? Its not that it only costs 350gas but additional gas there AND YES, zerg needs way more gas than terran to fight in battle... YES ITS TRUE!!!!! thats pretty greedy you know? maybe get hive first (its not expensive a factory with reactor costs the same) and then step by step maybe adrenal first, or 3 / 3, or an ultra cavern? why do you think you should be able to upgrade everything on hivetech at once? Well, then you invest in Hive tech and have barely any benefit. Once sou hit Hive you really need to get Hive tech going, otherwise the investment for the Hive itself weights even more and in the clashs you still look kinda bad.
well not making the transition is not an option as many zerg here pointed out, and making it with thousands of ressources for ultras and upgrades obviously is not either when the terran invests heavily in the midgame, so i think if you are hardpressed but still want to advance your tech, you have to be choosing what you want, be it an allin, infestors after mutas then hive or hive and only one upgrade at a time, dunno, i just think it is right that zerg cannot easily reach lategame and pump his ressources into t3 + upgrades where terran has nothing to look forward to but more mmmm <.<
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On August 13 2013 21:10 Naphal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 20:56 Foxxan wrote:On August 13 2013 20:53 TheDwf wrote:On August 13 2013 20:52 Incognoto wrote:On August 13 2013 20:23 TheDwf wrote:On August 13 2013 20:13 Dingodile wrote:On August 13 2013 20:02 Faust852 wrote:On August 13 2013 19:34 goody153 wrote:On August 13 2013 19:26 Faust852 wrote:
Meh @people saying that T is favor against Z only based on Polt and Innovation's performances. It's been 3 lists already on Aligulac that zerg is a little bit ahead in stats (around 48% for T). i think its T favored although innovations performance is not an argument to tvz imbalance .. innovation is plainly broken .. seriously the guys just too good Not if you look at aligulac, it's been 1 month that zerg is ahead, by a very thin margin, not enough to consider it imbalanced at all. Anyway, people keep complaining about the impossibility to reach Hive tech, but all in all, it only cost 300 gas, I don't think it affect that much the mutaball to have 3 delayed mutas for a short period of time. I don't know, as a Terran player, when I play zergs that keep playing with t2 unit (gling ban mutas, not roach hydra), I win quite convincingly but if the zerg get an early hive (14-15min), i became quite hard for me to deal with ultralisk, especially if i'm not aware of it and I don't have enough marauders in time. You say here exactly the problem what I see for 1-2months. As many people said, Terrans attacks Zerg permanently that zerg has to build units permanently so that zerg hasnt enough minerals and gas for hive. This is the goal from Terran (no hive), because this is the easiest way to win vs zerg. Not even the best Zergs in the world constantly keep their resources below 300/250 during midgame. I saw countless times things like "10 mutas" in production, meaning Zerg had banked 1k/1k for quite some time, yet Zergs never have 100/100 then 200/150 to tech Hive before 20 minuts? I don't buy that. They bank 1k/1k because their goal is to get out 10 mutas as soon as their spire finishes generally. Don't underestimate Hive cost, it might be 200/150 but you still have to actually buy the upgrades. 300/300 x2 + 150/150 + 200/150 is the actual cost of getting to Hive, to get 3/3, Ultra Carapace and Hive itself. I was obviously not talking about the first mutas. You still dont buy it? how much gas for hive? is it 350 total? Then you need 500gas to upgrade 3-3 for your lings and adrenalinerush 200 gas mutas 3upgrade 250gas you understand why zergs dont rush to hive now faster? Its not that it only costs 350gas but additional gas there AND YES, zerg needs way more gas than terran to fight in battle... YES ITS TRUE!!!!! thats pretty greedy you know? maybe get hive first (its not expensive a factory with reactor costs the same) and then step by step maybe adrenal first, or 3 / 3, or an ultra cavern? why do you think you should be able to upgrade everything on hivetech at once?
i remember that leenock had some pretty bad ass 3 base hive tech build at the end of wol... they should still work, except for the infestor is now a bit weaker...
i dont get why zergs dont use burrow zerglings to cover the map.. seen it once or twice in gsl and it was very powerfull!
this would even help against widow mine pushes, cause a good zerg player can ste up a flank and straight kill the widow mine army wich arrives always around 10-12 mins.
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On August 13 2013 20:54 Foxxan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 20:50 DidYuhim wrote:On August 13 2013 18:38 SsDrKosS wrote:On August 13 2013 18:31 DidYuhim wrote:On August 13 2013 04:28 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 04:27 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Vipers will full energy? So they didn't learn anything from the HT Amulet upgrade?
The f... Oh its fine, they don't have storm. Lets talk about Hellbats and vikings upgrading as one. Hellbat/marauder/viking to rule them all. oh @#$! I realised that now for me, viper change was just tooo great. I thought they once did this kind of patch (combining ground and air upgrades) earlier, didn't they? Why they are doing it again? They combined armor upgrades, not attack upgrades. No they combined attack upgrade also, get your facts straight
No they didn't. They only combined the armor upgrades, not the weapon upgrades which they plan to do now.
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I dunno why everyone is acting like the Viper change will effect TvZ. Vipers pretty much always have full energy by the time mech pushes hit due to consume. The main thing this will effect is ZvP, where there are a number of Colossus times specifically built around hitting before Vipers can get energy to abduct.
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On August 13 2013 21:16 monkybone wrote:
viper is hardly seen in professional games, they definitely need a buff. ultra viper tvp would be nice
Yes! Give Terran ultras/vipers vs Protoss and they would be really happy. (;
blizzard sees mech as a transition from bio in tvp, which is interesting. if mech is more powerful than bio, but also harder to get to, it would make the matchup ten times more interesting than it is now. I would love to see terrans transition into late game mech.
It just won't happen with the current units stats. Blizzard suggesting mech or even Hellbats could be a viable lategame transition vs Protoss sadly proves they are out of touch with the reality of the match-up.
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EPT
