EPTWhat the Viper "test" should tells us is that Blizzard is really not satisfied with how the Viper is used in the current meta game. Personally I think it comes down mostly to that it's the hardest of all hots units to use and lets face it, terrans never learned to use ravens in 2 years time.
Changes for balance test map live - Page 28
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Krogan
Sweden375 Posts
What the Viper "test" should tells us is that Blizzard is really not satisfied with how the Viper is used in the current meta game. Personally I think it comes down mostly to that it's the hardest of all hots units to use and lets face it, terrans never learned to use ravens in 2 years time. | ||
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SsDrKosS
330 Posts
On August 13 2013 10:01 RowdierBob wrote: How long ago was this though? Was it early on in HoTS/HoTS Beta? I think the game has advanced quite a bit since then. Abduct is a good spell but blinding cloud feels pretty limited right now (relative to the viper investment). If they buffed blinding cloud's radius/diameter I think it could make ZvT and ZvP much more interesting. Could even warrant more viper play in late game ZvZ. I think If the radius to be buffed, we need to reduce the duration to 10 sec or less. It's already too painful to watch mech getting destroyed so easily. But with reduced duration and increased radius, it will does greatly against bio and other matches which moves fast and escapes cloud easily. And I still say, NO energy buff (is that a buff thought?  ). | ||
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tsango
Australia214 Posts
On August 13 2013 04:27 renaissanceMAN wrote: Vipers will full energy? So they didn't learn anything from the HT Amulet upgrade? The f... My first thoughts exactly... Being able to warp in a storm was pretty broken, but spawning with full energy to abduct or cloud the opponent somehow isnt? Perhaps vipers need an upgrade like pathogen glands where they start with say +25 energy. Full energy really does sounds a bit strong to me. | ||
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SsDrKosS
330 Posts
On August 13 2013 10:14 tsango wrote: My first thoughts exactly... Being able to warp in a storm was pretty broken, but spawning with full energy to abduct or cloud the opponent somehow isnt? Perhaps vipers need an upgrade like pathogen glands where they start with say +25 energy. Full energy really does sounds a bit strong to me. To ALL people who wants an energy upgrade for viper. WHERE can I research that? viper tower? viper has no building... (don't say spire or hive) Viper don't need energy upgrade. with the resources for research, I rather make another one. | ||
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sparklyresidue
United States5523 Posts
On August 13 2013 10:14 tsango wrote: My first thoughts exactly... Being able to warp in a storm was pretty broken, but spawning with full energy to abduct or cloud the opponent somehow isnt? Perhaps vipers need an upgrade like pathogen glands where they start with say +25 energy. Full energy really does sounds a bit strong to me. Firstly, it's a test map PROPOSITION. Secondly, Vipers are not equal to High Templar, and thirdly, game balance is not achieved by looking at other races' counterpart units and comparing numbers. | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
On August 13 2013 10:14 tsango wrote: My first thoughts exactly... Being able to warp in a storm was pretty broken, but spawning with full energy to abduct or cloud the opponent somehow isnt? Perhaps vipers need an upgrade like pathogen glands where they start with say +25 energy. Full energy really does sounds a bit strong to me. No an energy upgrade would be useless. Vipers do just fine with consume if your macro is decent, and you don't really get vipers in large quantities either. I don't think they should go the route of messing with viper energy acquisition at all. If they're going the route of tweaking the viper I think the best change for them would be: - Move Vipers to lair tech - Make abduct a hive upgrade | ||
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HeeroFX
United States2704 Posts
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GoodSirTets
Canada200 Posts
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Armada Vega
Canada120 Posts
Factory shouldn't have a tier 3 unit that decides if protoss air units counters all mech or not. 5 thors take up 30 army supply, thats 30 supply that isn't tanks, hellions, mines or ghosts. if terran had a soft counter to air like goliaths, the match up would be more dynamic and more stable. This also includes an easier way to snipe observers so widow mines work against protoss. A goliath is more significanltly worth the investment than vikings. | ||
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TeamBanished
United States301 Posts
On August 13 2013 10:20 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: No an energy upgrade would be useless. Vipers do just fine with consume if your macro is decent, and you don't really get vipers in large quantities either. I don't think they should go the route of messing with viper energy acquisition at all. If they're going the route of tweaking the viper I think the best change for them would be: - Move Vipers to lair tech - Make abduct a hive upgrade Good Point, I like the viper moving to Lair tech and abduct a hive upgrade. Maybe at spire? | ||
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SsDrKosS
330 Posts
On August 13 2013 10:20 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: No an energy upgrade would be useless. Vipers do just fine with consume if your macro is decent, and you don't really get vipers in large quantities either. I don't think they should go the route of messing with viper energy acquisition at all. If they're going the route of tweaking the viper I think the best change for them would be: - Move Vipers to lair tech - Make abduct a hive upgrade Wait! I have great Idea! make viper morphing from Mutas!!! 25, 75 and 10~20 sec morph (or 0,100 but that sounds bad) Abduct UNLOCKS at hive tech. (no upgrade for viper which has NO BUILDING) | ||
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11B
United States188 Posts
So you mean you want WM to deal: 40vs bio +40 vs armored +35 shield? That's quite weird... having so many varience.. I wan't WMs to deal (vs Zerg): 40 vs bio (Hydra) 20 vs zerglings (50% of 40) 80 vs armored (Roach/Ultra) Or I suppose an easier way to do it would be 1 single WM could do roughly 50% damage to all units, i.e., Ling, Roach, Hydra, Muta, Queen, Ovies/Overseer, and SH. the exception being Ultra. More thought would have to go into that specific. But TBH, that's still OP in my opinion but at least 100000000000000000000% better than the current state of things. | ||
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SsDrKosS
330 Posts
On August 13 2013 10:28 11B wrote: I wan't WMs to deal (vs Zerg): 40 vs bio (Hydra) 20 vs zerglings (50% of 40) 80 vs armored (Roach/Ultra) Or I suppose an easier way to do it would be 1 single WM could do roughly 50% damage to all units, i.e., Ling, Roach, Hydra, Muta, Queen, Ovies/Overseer, and SH. the exception being Ultra. More thought would have to go into that specific. man, you can't make a unit that does soooo many various attack dmg. and remember that it has 5 range, 1.5 delay (and you can see them during that time), and 40 seconds cool down. how about my suggestion? make the attack non-spell? then, you can blind cloud them :D Currently, MASS WM in the mid-late game is the concern. and I think Overseer buff will help a lot. utilize your detector more. | ||
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Armada Vega
Canada120 Posts
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SsDrKosS
330 Posts
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Phoobie
Canada120 Posts
On August 13 2013 10:39 Armada Vega wrote: delete post Or what if we replaced the Widow Mine with a Widow Maker, similar model to the current Widow Mine except it hovers over the ground and has no attack and cannot burrow. Spawns with 2 Mine charges, using a charge plants a Widow Mine at the target area that lasts indefinitely and provides a small radius of vision, Mines trigger when an enemy unit is within 3 range and deal let's say 50-80 damage in a small AOE. Widow Makers can replenish Widow Mines in a similar fasion to Carriers building interceptors at a small mineral Cost. hey, a guy can dream can't he  | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On August 13 2013 10:33 SsDrKosS wrote: man, you can't make a unit that does soooo many various attack dmg. and remember that it has 5 range, 1.5 delay (and you can see them during that time), and 40 seconds cool down. how about my suggestion? make the attack non-spell? then, you can blind cloud them :D Currently, MASS WM in the mid-late game is the concern. and I think Overseer buff will help a lot. utilize your detector more. If you make it a non-spell then it wont break through immortals Harden Shields. | ||
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NPF
Canada1635 Posts
How to get medivacs, start playing with bio and doom drop all your forces when you want to transition and boost out your medivacs. This is all low level theory crafting, but making blinding cloud -5 range would still let a tank have 7 range, which is one more then a Stalker or range upgraded Hydralisk. So then there would be a reason to go mech even with Swarm Host Vipers instead of just sticking with bio. edit : maybe another random zerg buff with the overseer is make changelings number 1 priority of mines. I'm just saying crazy things now | ||
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asongdotnet
United States1060 Posts
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SsDrKosS
330 Posts
On August 13 2013 10:46 TheRabidDeer wrote: If you make it a non-spell then it wont break through immortals Harden Shields. Thats why! It's already painful to one shot oracle, stalker, zealot, etc Immortals should not get countered sooo easy by this cheap, massible units. btw do you guys use mines often in PvT? maybe in early game or as defence but not much, right?. and If it is too nerfed against immortals, make splash (40dmg) remains to be skill dmg. Dragoons had enough time with mines in BW you know. let immortal alone :D | ||
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