Koreans vs. Foreigners - Discussion with PiG

On July 11 2013 10:14 edgeOut wrote:
Who is pig?

On July 11 2013 10:08 intense555 wrote:
It literally isn't fair for koreans to play in WCS EU or WCS AM unless they live there full time.

On July 11 2013 10:08 intense555 wrote:
It literally isn't fair for koreans to play in WCS EU or WCS AM unless they live there full time.

On July 11 2013 11:08 hyunseung wrote:


It's literally discrimination to not let persons of a certain nationality play in a qualifying tournament.
Are you mad that Koreans are always on top? To have a tournament specifically set up to allow lower tier players to win is downright dumb and just shows obviously bias towards Korean players.

On July 11 2013 11:18 Mohdoo wrote:


Should people from the US be on Brazil's swim team for the Olympics?

On July 11 2013 11:21 lichter wrote:


This is a thread about the skill gap between Koreans and foreigners.

We already have 10 billion threads about the WCS format. No need to derail another thread.

On July 11 2013 11:24 Mohdoo wrote:


You're right, my bad

On July 11 2013 11:08 hyunseung wrote:


It's literally discrimination to not let persons of a certain nationality play in a qualifying tournament.
Are you mad that Koreans are always on top? To have a tournament specifically set up to allow lower tier players to win is downright dumb and just shows obviously bias towards Korean players.

On July 11 2013 10:08 intense555 wrote:
It literally isn't fair for koreans to play in WCS EU or WCS AM unless they live there full time.

On July 11 2013 12:25 Kyaaaaa wrote:

Might as well kcik out all the Australians and Chinese then also.

On July 11 2013 11:08 hyunseung wrote:


It's literally discrimination to not let persons of a certain nationality play in a qualifying tournament.
Are you mad that Koreans are always on top? To have a tournament specifically set up to allow lower tier players to win is downright dumb and just shows obviously bias towards Korean players.

On July 11 2013 13:23 ForcesEqualZero wrote:
OK, so back on the topic. Foreigner wise, wcs am has 2 american hopefulls left in the final qualifier: Shew and Elige, both from clarity gaming. Now, cg does have a team house, and I know elige is there, and shew may be as well, and so perhaps we are seeing the benefit from that. Not knowing the specifics of cg's financials, I do not think CG pays much, if at all, please say so if I'm wrong. So here is what we are talking about: how do we expect players who are paid very little to compete against full time, paid professionals? If cg gets a house and benefits from it, what of the other teams (complexity, quantic, etc etc) that do not? How do we expect their players to ever come close to competing with korean pros?

On July 11 2013 14:01 9-BiT wrote:

To be perfectly honest, koreans don't make for a good show. Of course Polt may be an exception to this, but the majority of the players are faceless, at least to the foreign community. I would rather watch a game with a storyline and a rivalry than the best play in the world, simple as that. To someone who doesn't know starcraft, it's much easier to explain "IdrA flipped off HuK at MLG, and called him a trash player", than to try and explain the beauty and intricacy of korean play. There is a time and place for both, but right now, there isn't any representation of the first scenario.

On July 11 2013 14:36 DeathProfessor wrote:
Great post ForcesEqualsZero, those are my thoughts as well. Also the constant racism calls are dragging down the scene, don't need to be paraded out for all to see after the first Koreans shouldn't play Americans post.

On July 11 2013 15:58 NarutO wrote:


Thats your opinion, which is as meaningless as mine. The argument gets so old. No Koreans are not faceless, actually most Koreans I know and follow are nothing but amazing as person and player. What storyline do I get between State and Kane? Is 'IdrA flipped HuK at MLG' really a storyline for you?

If you get hyped by that, you should go to see wrestling instead of Starcraft, because it seems you clearly don't enjoy the game? I can say that I personally enjoy Starcraft and seeing it played well, Koreans do deliver those terms and I'll happily cheer for any foreigner that can match them in that term, other than that, no.

On July 11 2013 10:08 intense555 wrote:
It literally isn't fair for koreans to play in WCS EU or WCS AM unless they live there full time.

On July 11 2013 11:18 Mohdoo wrote:


Should people from the US be on Brazil's swim team for the Olympics?

On July 11 2013 12:31 winthrop wrote:

Absolutely true

On July 11 2013 22:24 MasterOfPuppets wrote:


You're right, what the hell are all these Australians and Chinese doing in WCS AM? They should just compete in WCS SEA and WCS China... oh wait.

-_-

OT: Thank you for the great content, Khaldor!

On July 11 2013 11:18 Mohdoo wrote:


Should people from the US be on Brazil's swim team for the Olympics?

On July 11 2013 21:45 Firestorm wrote:
I just want to watch the best Starcraft possible; if that is Korean vs Korean all the time, so be it.

On July 11 2013 13:23 ForcesEqualZero wrote:
He didn't say Koreans can't play in the tournament, he said they have to move to the place where the tournament is taking place in order to play.

On July 11 2013 09:49 Khaldor wrote:
Thanks PiG is pretty easy to talk to though, very good interview-partner

On July 11 2013 22:35 shmget wrote:


Should Swiss player be allowed to play in the US-Open at Flushing Meadows ?
or do you think that 'US'-open means that only US player should be allow to compete at this tournament?

On July 11 2013 13:23 ForcesEqualZero wrote:

He didn't say Koreans can't play in the tournament, he said they have to move to the place where the tournament is taking place in order to play. It makes sense to do this from a marketing point of view. In case you haven't seen the numbers, the qualifiers have struggled to reach 10k viewers on twitch. Frankly, not too many people seem to care. Is this good for the scene? Wcs am is going to have a bunch of Korean players, and oh, by the way, kespa is starting a LoL league. Do you see where this is going for SC2?

OK, so back on the topic. Foreigner wise, wcs am has 2 american hopefulls left in the final qualifier: Shew and Elige, both from clarity gaming. Now, cg does have a team house, and I know elige is there, and shew may be as well, and so perhaps we are seeing the benefit from that. Not knowing the specifics of cg's financials, I do not think CG pays much, if at all, please say so if I'm wrong. So here is what we are talking about: how do we expect players who are paid very little to compete against full time, paid professionals? If cg gets a house and benefits from it, what of the other teams (complexity, quantic, etc etc) that do not? How do we expect their players to ever come close to competing with korean pros?

Let's tie this all together. Let's say I am running Complexity gaming. I have some good talent, like qxc, hendralisk, and sasquatch. They certainly can compete amongst foreigners, but if they want to play in wcs, they'll need lots of support. A team house, maybe some money so they can make ends meet to train, etc. And they'll participate in this tournament that gets 9k viewers and gives virtually zero exposure to our sponsors, and they will still be an underdog to qualify. If I am running complexity, how do I justify supporting these players, particularly when I can support a LoL scene that has more viewers and a huge upside if we get into LCS. Which is region locked, I might add, in case you want to get all offended and tell riot that they are discriminating against Koreans.

The story ends like this: complexity has a house for their american LoL players, who get to scrim together while they try to get a spot in next season's LCS. American SC2 players get very little support comparatively because it is a very risky proposition to try to get them in to wcs, and even if they get into challenger, just wait until they see the groups.

Who benefits? Koreans teams, apparently, although I have no clue what they plan to do from here. Their fans and sponsors are mostly Korean. They probably don't care, frankly, if anyone watches the wcs, they just want wcs points. Sc2 viewership in america will stay the same or decrease, while LoL's popularity continues to increase. And did I mention kespa is starting a pro league for LoL? Don't pretend that the decline of sc2 in america will not affect korea...

On July 11 2013 22:44 shmget wrote:


You're not familiar with your country immigration policy are you ?
For all intent and purpose, requiring 'residency' is the same as banning them... beside it is WCS-AM not WCS-US... so the specific 'country' where the tournament takes place is irrelevant...

On July 11 2013 23:01 ForcesEqualZero wrote:

For starters, Polt and Violet are what I would term as US residents. I'm not interested in defending US immigration policy, that is not my intention, but I am observing that it is not impossible. Also, when I say "the place where the tournament is taking place", I meant that as in the region.

On July 11 2013 13:23 ForcesEqualZero wrote:
It makes sense to do this from a marketing point of view.

On July 11 2013 23:16 Talin wrote:


This argumentation has been the one singular bane of western esports for the last 10 years, no matter the game.

You either get a sport, or you get a show. You don't get both (not by design at least).

If you want to watch a sport, the scene and audience needs to get over their obession with faux hype, fake rivalries, scripted storylines, and "marketable" personalities - and only take note of them when and IF they occur naturally as a product of the competition itself.

If you want a show, just put 15 foreigners in a team house and make reality TV from it. Way better ROI than a foreigner WCS with half the players playing at a semi-pro level at best.

On July 11 2013 23:16 Talin wrote:


This argumentation has been the one singular bane of western esports for the last 10 years, no matter the game.

You either get a sport, or you get a show. You don't get both (not by design at least).

If you want to watch a sport, the scene and audience needs to get over their obession with faux hype, fake rivalries, scripted storylines, and "marketable" personalities - and only take note of them when and IF they occur naturally as a product of the competition itself.

If you want a show, just put 15 foreigners in a team house and make reality TV from it. Way better ROI than a foreigner WCS with half the players playing at a semi-pro level at best.

On July 11 2013 23:24 Plansix wrote:

They are not exclusive. They can have hype and also be a sport. Most US sports are able to do both. Marketability is a broad term and shouldn't just be applied to reality TV shows.

On July 11 2013 23:28 theking1 wrote:
Can Romanian football teams play in the MOntenegro football championship?After all the tema that wants to compete in the champions league sould be the best in Europe..

On July 11 2013 23:22 theking1 wrote:
To start off with I think it is relatively funny that people form countries such as USA,Germany,Netherlands,France,Sweden,Norway who have very strict immigration and even strict employment laws for foreigners are so supportive of koreans playing in wcs na and taking na players jobs.I wonder how many of you would have a job tomorow if an Indian or Chinesse or Romanian could be hired as easily as an american citizen in the US.A lot of you would remain unemployed simply because all the top level chinesse and indian workers would come and take a lot of the jobs held by unqualified americans.THat is why protectionist laws are in place:to protect your own citizens regardless if they are worse than citizens of other countries.
Which brings me to the next point:MONEY MONEY MONEY

See the big issue is right now that the wcs is sort of not very profitable in the na region simply because people from the na region do not want to see asians who do not even speak english take the place of americans,canadians etc.And that is not my oppinion it is reflected by the extremly low viewership number for na which has an averahe viewership of 10k.10k viewers for a game that brags itself as the best esport in the world is sort of pathetic.Demuslim pulls that alone on his stream not to mention the fact that lcs na can go anywhere form 100kto 200k viewers.
The C level koreans who come to na are not the best like other people here are trying to claim but are the ones who can not compete in korea.That and the fact they are boring and do not speak English make them extremly unappealing to the great majority of na audience as reflected in the viewership count.
What you na korean appologetics also seem to forget is that a business such as SC2 and implicitly wcs runs on MONEY which the american audience isnt spending on WCS NA.WCS NA is not something that blizzard is oblidged to give you.From an economical perspective if wcs gets low viewership number it is utterly useless since not only does it not promote their product it just wastes money into a void.
If you wanna take it simply by skill wcs should look like this:
1.a korean wcs with 4 leagues A,B,C,D cause even D levle koreans are better than most foreigners
2.wcs europe-although even that is debatable cuase eventually in the wcs finals they will be slaughtered by top level koreans

Like it or not if blizzard does not pull in some protectionist measures to protect the na scene as a whole sc2 will return to its bw state where the only place in the world where sc2 wouldbe played competitively would be south korea.
You can not have it both ways:koreans benefit from much better trainers,training facilities,practice partners etc.Foreigners do not have any of this stuff.

Luckyly blizzard will introduce lan only play next season so the actual na people might have a chance.But even then I am not very sure considering that most na teams are already half korean.Perosnally if I wore blizzard I would just take th emoney form the na scene and invest it in a third korean league since the na scene is just korean right now.

On July 11 2013 23:30 SupLilSon wrote:

I literally have no idea what you are talking about. There are loads of foreigners going to school and working the United States. In fact, most of my professors at University are from other countries... Most of the graduate students are foreign...
the guys doing work on my house are Mexican and the head contractor is Indian... Am I missing something?

On July 11 2013 23:28 Talin wrote:


You can have hype, but not artificially build it up.

For example, commentators saying "I'm so pumped for this matchup between two of the best players in the world" during the intro for a match between two mid-tier foreigners - no serious sports commentator does that.

If the competition isn't at the foundation and you have to make compromises to be able to sell the show to viewers, then the whole concept is rotten at its very core.

On July 11 2013 23:28 Talin wrote:


You can have hype, but not artificially build it up.

For example, commentators saying "I'm so pumped for this matchup between two of the best players in the world" during the intro for a match between two mid-tier foreigners - no serious sports commentator does that.

If the competition isn't at the foundation and you have to make compromises to be able to sell the show to viewers, then the whole concept is rotten at its very core.



Can football be played online regardless of location?

We're not talking about football or [insert random sport here], so it doesn't matter.

There are no limitations to video games being a global competition between the best players - other than latency, but that's actually working against the Koreans in our case.

On July 11 2013 23:36 theking1 wrote:


Football is also a global competition between players.it is fairly easy to put 15 football players in a bus and camp them somewhere in Montenegro so they can go to champions league form the Montenegro league.Btw why doesn't the premier league or the spanish first leagues allow the same thing?Because they wanna protect their own football scene.The same as na people wanna prtect the na scene

On July 11 2013 23:37 Talin wrote:


Why are you talking about football?

On July 11 2013 23:39 theking1 wrote:


because footblall and sc2 are both competitions aka sports and in principle they follow the same rules....Now stop dodging the question

On July 11 2013 23:45 Talin wrote:


Doesn't mean you can draw direct analogy between them, no matter how much you insist on it.

Starcraft is a video game. That can be played online between people anywhere in the world. It doesn't have the physical limitations of football (a sport where players kick the ball around that was growing in the 19th freaking century). The competition structures are not comparable or analogous in the slightest.

I don't want to follow up on incorrect analogies you made up to satisfy your position. If that's dodging to you, then I can't help you with that.

On July 11 2013 23:49 theking1 wrote:


ok no football.Then why does GSL,OSL the most prestigious sc2 competitions do not have global online qualifiers???And why does the LCS the most watched esports league do not have online qualifiers and require teams to be present oin the studio?

To make it clear offline studio play is a politically correct form of region lock,I just wanna know your oppinion about it.Cause by your logic the gsl and osl are ba dcompetitions since they do not allow the best form around the Earth to compete

On July 11 2013 23:52 DamageControL wrote:

Blizzard already said that they were going to move towards more offline play for regions.
GSL and OSL have had their formats for a while and Blizzard didn't want to piss them off. while I agree they should have online qualifiers, how many foreigners do you expect to join that qualifier?

On July 11 2013 23:49 theking1 wrote:


ok no football.Then why does GSL,OSL the most prestigious sc2 competitions do not have global online qualifiers???And why does the LCS the most watched esports league do not have online qualifiers and require teams to be present oin the studio?

To make it clear offline studio play is a politically correct form of region lock,I just wanna know your oppinion about it.Cause by your logic the gsl and osl are ba dcompetitions since they do not allow the best form around the Earth to compete

On July 11 2013 23:52 DamageControL wrote:

Blizzard already said that they were going to move towards more offline play for regions.
GSL and OSL have had their formats for a while and Blizzard didn't want to piss them off. while I agree they should have online qualifiers, how many foreigners do you expect to join that qualifier?

On July 12 2013 00:19 Talin wrote:
That doesn't make sense at all.

GOM bent over time and time again to get foreigners to play in the GSL - they opened the house for them, they gave them seeds from foreign tournaments, and even went so far to give them direct Code S seeds. They were allowed in over Korean players that actually deserved it by qualifying. They wanted foreigners so hard that they tried literally everything to have them compete.

On July 12 2013 00:36 theking1 wrote:


they didn't bend.GOmtv teams had contracts with foreign teams such as ogs-teamliquid or slayers-eg and it was mutual.They got assistance in foreign events and foreigners could share the team house during the gsl.And if you are talking about 1 or 2 seeds that is preety insignificative compared to the dozens of koreans playing on na.

On July 12 2013 00:19 Talin wrote:
That doesn't make sense at all.

GOM bent over time and time again to get foreigners to play in the GSL - they opened the house for them, they gave them seeds from foreign tournaments, and even went so far to give them direct Code S seeds. They were allowed in over Korean players that actually deserved it by qualifying. They wanted foreigners so hard that they tried literally everything to have them compete.

On July 12 2013 01:23 Azarkon wrote:
You guys do know that practically all Korean tournaments require people to be in Korea to participate in? From WCS qualifiers to their new Dota 2 leagues to GSL... I don't see what's so absurd about requiring the same for NA tournaments.

EDIT: in theory, that is. I understand that players from countries with no qualifiers have to be allowed to play in NA.

On July 12 2013 01:52 Prog455 wrote:


Having to play qualifers offline would be a major setback for players in NA and EU aswell. Korea is far smaller than both EU and NA, not to mention that more than 20% of the population lives in Seoul or Incheon. Having to travel to Seoul to play a qualifer is far easier to any South Korean than it is for Europeans or Americans.

On July 12 2013 02:16 Azarkon wrote:


I think what you're missing is that the whole system of WCS, where WCS NA is online and open to all, WCS EU is online and open to all, but WCS Korea is offline and open to only people who are physically in Korea, is fundamentally biased towards Koreans in the first place. The question you have to ask is - why doesn't Korea ever run online qualifiers open to people from the rest of the world? Why doesn't the WCS organizing committee make a WCS Asia equivalent to NA and EU?

I don't think it matters in SC 2, but in games where Koreans are behind in - ie LoL back in 2011, Dota 2 today - it's telling that they don't have a single team from outside of Korea in their qualifiers / leagues system except those they choose to invite themselves. I don't want to call it protectionism, but it does have the same effect.

On July 12 2013 02:33 Prog455 wrote:


I think what you are missing is that you can't compare Korea to NA or EU. Do we really hate Koreans so much that we'd happily hurt our own scene, as long as we can give the Koreans a hard time.

I know that it is harder for people in EU or NA to qualify in Korea than vice versa, but having offline qualifiers in each region will not only make it harder for Koreans to qualify in NA, but also for AMERICANS to qualify in NA.

On July 12 2013 02:33 Prog455 wrote:


I think what you are missing is that you can't compare Korea to NA or EU. Do we really hate Koreans so much that we'd happily hurt our own scene, as long as we can give the Koreans a hard time.

I know that it is harder for people in EU or NA to qualify in Korea than vice versa, but having offline qualifiers in each region will not only make it harder for Koreans to qualify in NA, but also for AMERICANS to qualify in NA.

On July 12 2013 02:50 theking1 wrote:


I do not think you realize that in a fair competition everybody plays by the same rules because everybody is equal.If wcs is to have any credibility all players should be subjected to the same rules.You can not have some play only and some offline and claim it is a fait competition.If anything it is racist towards the foreigners but who care about them right?

On July 12 2013 02:50 theking1 wrote:


I do not think you realize that in a fair competition everybody plays by the same rules because everybody is equal.If wcs is to have any credibility all players should be subjected to the same rules.You can not have some play only and some offline and claim it is a fait competition.If anything it is racist towards the foreigners but who care about them right?

On July 12 2013 03:11 Plansix wrote:

Its not that simple. You can't have offline qualifers for EU and NA, the countries are HUGE. EU isn't even one country. China is in the NA region. It would screw over everyone else except for the Koreans.

On July 12 2013 03:27 theking1 wrote:


I agree geography and increase costs are an important issue.And I do agree that completly offline qualifiers are very expensive to hold both for the participants and for Blizzard considering the wcs isnt making them anything but since they decided to have the competition in the first place they should have thought about
1.Fairness.Everybody should play by the same rules.If not everybody plays by the same rules the competition is sort of useless
2.CHina can be put in the same geographical area as Korea
3.EU and Na are huge but it is relatively easy to travel form one EU country form another almost as easy as from one us state to another.The biggest issue is with the ucrainean and russian players since they are not in the EU but Whitera didnt have any issue showing up at last years wcs and performing as the best barman ever .
You might have a point if the Wcs will be held completly offline that ucrainean and russian might need some extra documents but the EU is very lax when it comes to checking paperwork so they can basicly stay how long they like..
Hopefully aussies have enough money to come to the us.But even with the completly offline play in place the na scene will be dominated by koreans such as hero who ar eplaying for na teams.In the end it is the same thing.
Sometimes I wish sc2 would make as much money as lol so blizzard can give all players salaries and teamhouses .

On July 11 2013 13:23 ForcesEqualZero wrote:
He didn't say Koreans can't play in the tournament, he said they have to move to the place where the tournament is taking place in order to play.

Roger Federer does Nike advertisements, and does interviews with American press in english.

On July 12 2013 03:27 theking1 wrote:
it is not as expensive as you make it out to be.You can traver to germany with low cost airlines such as wizzair and blueair for 20 euros or 50 euros.I came form dortmund to Bucharest for 50 euros.A room in Germany costs 200 euros per month.It is affordable if you live in western europe.It is harder for eatern europeans but if they have teams such as white ra and dimaga they should not have issues

On July 11 2013 23:28 theking1 wrote:

Can Romanian football teams play in the MOntenegro football championship?After all the tema that wants to compete in the champions league sould be the best in Europe..

On July 12 2013 03:52 Prog455 wrote:


It's great to hear that some of you can get from Germany to Romania for a very low price, but getting from Denmark to Germany is another story, and i am sure that it people from Norway and Sweden has to pay more than 50 euros aswell. Furthermore i still believe that offline qualifiers will become a major entry barrier, simply because a lot of up and coming players (especially from China and Australia) don't have money nor time to travel to a whole other country to try and qualify. And certainly not several times a year.

On July 12 2013 03:52 Prog455 wrote:


It's great to hear that some of you can get from Germany to Romania for a very low price, but getting from Denmark to Germany is another story, and i am sure that it people from Norway and Sweden has to pay more than 50 euros aswell. Furthermore i still believe that offline qualifiers will become a major entry barrier, simply because a lot of up and coming players (especially from China and Australia) don't have money nor time to travel to a whole other country to try and qualify. And certainly not several times a year.

On July 12 2013 04:08 theking1 wrote:


I have done a quick search for you and at my first google search I have found flights from copenhagen to berlin for,25,39,40 euros which is actually cheaper than to Romania

http://www.edreams.com/flights/copenhagen-berlin/

And there are some nice airlines in there to.


If people are searching for cheap housing in germnay then the website

http://www.wg-gesucht.de/en/

has hundreds of offers in every major german city with prices of even 200 euros a month.And that is preety cheap for a northern european citizen.


In the regard of offline qualifiers being politically correct terms for region lock I agree with you perfectly.That is just what they are:region locks so that the local scene can grow and not upset the koreans.But in order for the NA scene to exist it has to be implemented otherwise the NA scene doesnt justify its existence both form a viewership and form a financial point.Blizzard can just call it Korean Legue C and move it completly to korea along with the money and wcs points.

Australia can be included in NA and CHina well they have to deal with the koreans.
The only issue is if blizzard will offer any assistance to cover up living costs.

On July 12 2013 04:17 jinorazi wrote:
didnt lpga try to pass english rule? where you must be able to speak english to compete in lpga. all started because there were too many koreans in the top.

i personally find it funny. damn koreans!

another note, korean bboy crew "project soul" was also banned after winning too many international battles in dominating fashion.

On July 12 2013 04:27 Cyrak wrote:


Breaking News: Koreans dominating fields that no one cares about! They must be stopped!

On July 12 2013 04:16 Prog455 wrote:


There must be some differences in cost depending on your IP address, because i literally just checked your link, and this is what i got 129 euro, 142 euro and 150 euro being the cheapest from Copenhagen to Berlin.

On July 12 2013 04:05 Cyrak wrote:
A lot of people still seem unable to accept the fact that the current WCS is set up the way it is for logistical reasons, not to protect players in certain areas from playing better players from other areas.

Blizzard has been pretty blunt and explicit about the fact that they have never intended to protect weaker regions from Korean players 'invading' so the neverending debate and controversy over this stuff is pointless at best.

On July 12 2013 06:05 Azarkon wrote:


Logistics = Chinese playing on NA instead of Korea? When are people going to understand that Blizzard struck a deal with OGN/GOM and allowed them to do whatever they want for WCS, which = continue running offline only qualifiers while sending those who aren't able to qualify through those to NA and EU.

Korea gets a pass because it's Korea. The WCS system is designed to be continental, not national, but Korea is given its own continent to work with because that's how OGN/GOM rolls.

We don't have WCS France, WCS UK, WCS Germany, etc. because Blizzard doesn't want to spend the $ to make offline qualifiers in all those countries. However, OGN/GOM are fine with running WCS themselves without Blizzard. Thus, Blizzard let them do it, and that's why we have offline qualifiers in Korea and online, continental ones everywhere else.

On July 12 2013 07:07 jinorazi wrote:
if there is a separate foreign league and korean league, and with code a (challenger), does this become like:
major league > minor league > foreigner league ?

since major is dominated by koreans, minor is koreans who cant make it and few foreigners trying to squeeze in, then all foreigners in their own special league.

thats degrading

On July 12 2013 01:21 Irre wrote:



This is so true...I know they wanted to try and dispel lazy rumors and whatnot, but I don' think this video changed my mind really. Khaldor even talking about the GOM house..paid for living and they are watching movies and sitting around? Seriously?? The bottom line is most of the talented foreigners that knew what it meant to be a progamer and actually followed the korean scene are too old and unmotivated. and the ones that are working hard and doing it right are getting results so I really dont even see the problem at this point.

The biggest thing that will help is foreign teams and top players in regions working together and practicing together and motivate each other to adopt serious approaches to starcraft like TLO Mana Sase Naniwa do. And its happening, it just needs patience and not to have 1834343 discussions about how we can get foreigners to beat koreans.