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On June 19 2013 04:17 eurTsItniH wrote:
Hello,
Me and my friend were recently trying to get a mutual friend into Starcraft 2. He said it seemed to difficult and he had no prior experience with it and that he never had played BW. We then started to discuss his previous gaming experience, and he stated that he played Warcraft 3 quite a lot.
So while Warcraft 3 is not identical to Starcraft 2, it still seems like the transition is not that difficult, seeing as we started to discuss how the Warcraft 3 pros were doing in Starcraft 2.
This lead to a long and interesting discussion, which brought up quite a few questions I'd like to bring up here aswell.
First of all, let us look at the current foreign SC2 pros, or more so the most succesful ones. Have you guys ever noticed that most of them are actually former WC3 players?
I mean Stephano was long regarded as the best foreigner and still is by many. Some of the best Swedish players are mostly former WC3 players aswell. (Naniwa, Thorzain, SjoW, Sase)
Actually I will just list some names now:
Lucifron
Vortix
Demuslim
Targa
Bly
Kas
ToD
NightEnd
Grubby
Harstem
HasuObs
Socke
Happy
Elfi
MacSed
While obviously not all the listed are the top players right now, I still think it shows that in general the WC3 players seem to be the most succesful foreigners.
But if we go to the Korean scene, this does not seem to be the case.
When Moon switched to SC2 he was hyped so much for being the best and most succesful WC3 player, but unfortunately he never really made a name of himself in SC2. He had a good IEM run and that is about it.
I think the only noteable Korean ex-WC3 players are violet and polt.
So to sum it all up: How come the most succesful foreigners seem to be former WC3 players, while the former WC3 Korean players seem to have failed?
Also it is odd that while the foreign BW players (Nerchio, Socke and so on) are definitely doing good, and especially in the beginning of SC2 the foreign BW players were obviously doing best, it seems that the WC3 players are just way more dominant on the foreign scene.
I mean this could probably just be explained by WC3 players catching up, but I still find it strange how big difference there is between the successrate between the Korean WC3 players and the foreign wc3 players in general. And considering so many former foreign WC3 players seem to be doing very good in SC2, I can't help but think they have a different mindset.
What if the former WC3 Korean players can become top foreigner level in SC2 if they struck it out? Obviously, that's not going to fly in Korea. Then again, you do have players like Polt and Violet who are Korean level and not foreigner level in SC2.
Former foreign WC3 players don't have a different mindset than former Korean WC3 players. They are just competing in a different scene. Even with the current WCS, it's still not easy for a Korean to compete in foreign tournaments. If the foreign WC3 players had to compete in Korean SC2 scene like the former Korean WC3 players did, they wouldn't amount to anything, either.
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By now, the foreign BW heros are too old for this shit.
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i rly wonde why the korean wc3 gamers did so poorly
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On June 19 2013 23:20 C[h]ili wrote:
By now, the foreign BW heros are too old for this shit.
jaeh alot, but some (just think about white-ra) play until they die ^_^
dimaga etc alot was metioned, i think in the foreign scene bw AND wc3 players did both pretty well
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On June 19 2013 23:25 CoR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2013 23:20 C[h]ili wrote:
By now, the foreign BW heros are too old for this shit. jaeh alot, but some (just think about white-ra) play until they die ^_^ dimaga etc alot was metioned, i think in the foreign scene bw AND wc3 players did both pretty well
It's interesting that you bring up white-ra. Real-world earnings are pretty low in his country, so he is doing fine with stream money alone. On the other side, for example Mondragon should have fnished his degree in business administration by now and he should earn pretty good (does anybody know what he is doing?). So of course he is no longer playing SC2!
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European WC3 was dominating the RTS foreign scene, so naturally when they switch WC3 players will dominate the SC2 foreign scene.
Korean BW scene was dominating the RTS Korean scene, so naturally when they switch BW players will dominate the SC2 scene.
*insert a random country* Solitaire scene was dominating the competitive scene, so natually when they switch Solitaire players will dominate the SC2 scene.
On June 19 2013 23:24 CoR wrote:
i rly wonde why the korean wc3 gamers did so poorly
I don't think they did that poorly. It's more like there're not enough players to make a big splash. Korean WC3 scene when SC2 came out was kind of dead. People were retired/military duty/married/move to China. If you compare the ratio of active Korean WC3 players in SC2 scene, it doesn't look that bad.
I think overall it's about the quantity of players in the scene. WC3 Korean scene didn't have many players playing SC2 to begin with.
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I think the amount of notable high level foreign war3 players that switched over to sc2 is much higher than the amount of notable foreign bw players. As for why the korean war3 players didn't exactly blow the sc2 scene up, the competition is much more fierce in korea. They were competing with Brood War pros and not lots of newer rts players, which is how it went down in EU/NA, or at least this is how I view it anyways.
Also consider the war3 players came into sc2 most likely with no or limited knowledge on how to play the game. Brood War players switched over with pre-conceived notions on how they should play SC2, and I think especially early on this caused a lot of problems. I'm thinking mostly of how rushes gained a bad reputation after WoL launched. Lots of War3 players just played to win, lots of foreign BW players would try to avoid "cheap" tactics (which looking back, it was complete nonsense).
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On June 19 2013 05:22 monk wrote:
Semi competitive
Naniwa (known more for BM than skill)
The joke almost writes itself.
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On June 19 2013 23:52 AnomalySC2 wrote:
Also consider the war3 players came into sc2 most likely with no or limited knowledge on how to play the game. Brood War players switched over with pre-conceived notions on how they should play SC2, and I think especially early on this caused a lot of problems. I'm thinking mostly of how rushes gained a bad reputation after WoL launched. Lots of War3 players just played to win, lots of foreign BW players would try to avoid "cheap" tactics (which looking back, it was complete nonsense).
Baloney. You must be only thinking about players who liked to drone up. Very narrow minded.
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On June 20 2013 00:17 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2013 23:52 AnomalySC2 wrote:
Also consider the war3 players came into sc2 most likely with no or limited knowledge on how to play the game. Brood War players switched over with pre-conceived notions on how they should play SC2, and I think especially early on this caused a lot of problems. I'm thinking mostly of how rushes gained a bad reputation after WoL launched. Lots of War3 players just played to win, lots of foreign BW players would try to avoid "cheap" tactics (which looking back, it was complete nonsense). Baloney. You must be only thinking about players who liked to drone up. Very narrow minded.
That is what I was referring too...
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On June 19 2013 07:08 eurTsItniH wrote:I never knew so many TL'ers came from/followed the WC3 scene, that is awesome! Show nested quote +On June 19 2013 07:01 Musicus wrote:
Someone (Take would be perfect for the job) should organize a wc3 tournament with current sc2 pros. This!
I'd watch that, I got into competitive WC3 too late to follow any scene (started playing like 2005, started playing actual 1v1s in ~2011) so it would be great to see some current WC3 :D
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On June 20 2013 00:12 vesicular wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2013 05:22 monk wrote:
Semi competitive
Naniwa (known more for BM than skill) The joke almost writes itself.
heh. the difference is that Naniwa was really bad at war3 and never had any memorable results, which is unfortunately far from the truth in sc2.
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On June 20 2013 00:40 Schelim wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 00:12 vesicular wrote:On June 19 2013 05:22 monk wrote:
Semi competitive
Naniwa (known more for BM than skill) The joke almost writes itself. heh. the difference is that Naniwa was really bad at war3 and never had any memorable results, which is unfortunately far from the truth in sc2.
If I remember he was an undead player and one of the more notable undeads at that. Undead was a....very unexplored race in war3, and not many at all had success with it, especially during the later years of the scene. There was like Ted and Happy, those were basically the only 2 und players that took any high placements at tournaments during the era before SC2 launched.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On June 20 2013 00:46 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 00:40 Schelim wrote:On June 20 2013 00:12 vesicular wrote:On June 19 2013 05:22 monk wrote:
Semi competitive
Naniwa (known more for BM than skill) The joke almost writes itself. heh. the difference is that Naniwa was really bad at war3 and never had any memorable results, which is unfortunately far from the truth in sc2. If I remember he was an undead player and one of the more notable undeads at that. Undead was a....very unexplored race in war3, and not many at all had success with it, especially during the later years of the scene. There was like Ted and Happy, those were basically the only 2 und players that took any high placements at tournaments during the era before SC2 launched.
This makes the fact I always struggled against my Undead friend worse :s
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On June 19 2013 06:48 monk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2013 06:37 Aiobhill wrote:
Hanfy plays SC2. Tak3r was quite active in the beta and at least 'a' AKM was resonably high ealier on the Korean ladder iirc. I honestly don't know who Hanfy is, either in WC3 or in SC2. =( I've never heard of Tak3r or AKM playing SC2 either, but imo they're not notable enough.
Hanfy is a former EPS champion in Sc2.
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On June 20 2013 00:48 Targe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 00:46 AnomalySC2 wrote:On June 20 2013 00:40 Schelim wrote:On June 20 2013 00:12 vesicular wrote:On June 19 2013 05:22 monk wrote:
Semi competitive
Naniwa (known more for BM than skill) The joke almost writes itself. heh. the difference is that Naniwa was really bad at war3 and never had any memorable results, which is unfortunately far from the truth in sc2. If I remember he was an undead player and one of the more notable undeads at that. Undead was a....very unexplored race in war3, and not many at all had success with it, especially during the later years of the scene. There was like Ted and Happy, those were basically the only 2 und players that took any high placements at tournaments during the era before SC2 launched. This makes the fact I always struggled against my Undead friend worse :s
Not so much lol. Undead was extremely strong, it's just no one really wanted to try anything new. It was always dk/lich + fiends of some sort xD.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On June 20 2013 00:50 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 00:48 Targe wrote:On June 20 2013 00:46 AnomalySC2 wrote:On June 20 2013 00:40 Schelim wrote:On June 20 2013 00:12 vesicular wrote:On June 19 2013 05:22 monk wrote:
Semi competitive
Naniwa (known more for BM than skill) The joke almost writes itself. heh. the difference is that Naniwa was really bad at war3 and never had any memorable results, which is unfortunately far from the truth in sc2. If I remember he was an undead player and one of the more notable undeads at that. Undead was a....very unexplored race in war3, and not many at all had success with it, especially during the later years of the scene. There was like Ted and Happy, those were basically the only 2 und players that took any high placements at tournaments during the era before SC2 launched. This makes the fact I always struggled against my Undead friend worse :s Not so much lol. Undead was extremely strong, it's just no one really wanted to try anything new. It was always dk/lich + fiends of some sort xD.
My friend would end up with meatwagon + necromancer and ended up with an army I couldn't kill 
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On June 20 2013 00:56 Targe wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 00:50 AnomalySC2 wrote:On June 20 2013 00:48 Targe wrote:On June 20 2013 00:46 AnomalySC2 wrote:On June 20 2013 00:40 Schelim wrote:On June 20 2013 00:12 vesicular wrote:On June 19 2013 05:22 monk wrote:
Semi competitive
Naniwa (known more for BM than skill) The joke almost writes itself. heh. the difference is that Naniwa was really bad at war3 and never had any memorable results, which is unfortunately far from the truth in sc2. If I remember he was an undead player and one of the more notable undeads at that. Undead was a....very unexplored race in war3, and not many at all had success with it, especially during the later years of the scene. There was like Ted and Happy, those were basically the only 2 und players that took any high placements at tournaments during the era before SC2 launched. This makes the fact I always struggled against my Undead friend worse :s Not so much lol. Undead was extremely strong, it's just no one really wanted to try anything new. It was always dk/lich + fiends of some sort xD. My friend would end up with meatwagon + necromancer and ended up with an army I couldn't kill
Now that was a strategy like no one ever used. People thought, ok elf has dryads/wisps (both of which were used vs undead standard anyways), orc has spirit walkers (also standard), undead has destroyers (standard) and human has assloads of towers, can't use it, too much dispel. I have to admit I never really tried it much after RoC so I wasn't really sure how good it was.
What did you main in war3?
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I think the fact that former WC3 players are doing well in SC2 is no new knowledge to most - it's been talked about plenty of times 
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On June 20 2013 01:03 AnomalySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 00:56 Targe wrote:On June 20 2013 00:50 AnomalySC2 wrote:On June 20 2013 00:48 Targe wrote:On June 20 2013 00:46 AnomalySC2 wrote:On June 20 2013 00:40 Schelim wrote:On June 20 2013 00:12 vesicular wrote:On June 19 2013 05:22 monk wrote:
Semi competitive
Naniwa (known more for BM than skill) The joke almost writes itself. heh. the difference is that Naniwa was really bad at war3 and never had any memorable results, which is unfortunately far from the truth in sc2. If I remember he was an undead player and one of the more notable undeads at that. Undead was a....very unexplored race in war3, and not many at all had success with it, especially during the later years of the scene. There was like Ted and Happy, those were basically the only 2 und players that took any high placements at tournaments during the era before SC2 launched. This makes the fact I always struggled against my Undead friend worse :s Not so much lol. Undead was extremely strong, it's just no one really wanted to try anything new. It was always dk/lich + fiends of some sort xD. My friend would end up with meatwagon + necromancer and ended up with an army I couldn't kill Now that was a strategy like no one ever used. People thought, ok elf has dryads/wisps (both of which were used vs undead standard anyways), orc has spirit walkers (also standard), undead has destroyers (standard) and human has assloads of towers, can't use it, too much dispel. I have to admit I never really tried it much after RoC so I wasn't really sure how good it was. What did you main in war3?
I was Orc. I can see now that my problem was I never used Spirit Walkers...
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EPT
