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On June 15 2013 19:15 Tsubbi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 19:11 Sissors wrote:On June 15 2013 19:09 Big J wrote:On June 15 2013 19:04 Sissors wrote:On June 15 2013 18:59 Cokefreak wrote:On June 15 2013 18:57 Foudzing wrote:
The spore got an enormous buff, it's logic that the banshee get a buff aswell.
I'm not sure with the warp prism buff, but I'm ok overall. Spore only got a buff for ZvZ, this Cloak buff affects all match-ups. And in which matchup exactly is it hard to counter banshees. Recently for example I considered doing a cloakshee rush in TvZ, I used to do that long time in the past in WoL. Then I realized since the queen range boost still exist, it is pretty pointless. Cheaper cloak isn't going to change that. (Yes I know the queen range was ground attack, however that resulted in more queens being produced, which make banshees fairly useless for their investment). You Terrans can never let go about that patch, lol. Seems like it did what it was supposed to do, as now not every random coinflip from Terran doesn't work anymore, yet the matchup is balanced because the real problems (infestors, lategame air armies) have been solved. Yeah and we know you zerg like your queens to have siege tank range and splash damage. However my point simply is that zerg still should have no problem with countering banshees. why talk so much shit, we want a balanced game with several viable openings for both races, best player should win right now terran has a few new openings and every hots unit is viable in the matchup, zerg has no new openings and both new units have hardly any use at allon top, winrates so far have been at 55% every month now terran gets a buff to banshee, why do u wonder zergs get upset?
The new Zerg units are so strong against mech that you barely see any mech at all.
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Don't buff the banshee, for the love of god blizzard. It already traded the wraiths ability to hit air for way more hitpoints and like twice the damage, lets have it chill at that. Hellbat change is really nice, dunno about the prism though.
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On June 15 2013 20:35 Lorch wrote:
Don't buff the banshee, for the love of god blizzard. It already traded the wraiths ability to hit air for way more hitpoints and like twice the damage, lets have it chill at that. Hellbat change is really nice, dunno about the prism though.
Banshees are pretty weak outside the opening and base trades. They're much weaker vs zerg now queens are more prevalent and spores are easier to come by. Still a more mid game upgrade like the limited linear splash thing from the campaign might be more in order than a slight cloackshee rush buff, this isn't broodwar, they aren't hardy units in a hots context. I still think late game mass hellbat drops are going to be a big problem. All in good changes, like them all.
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These changes just look ridiculous... It almost feels like they're making random changes and keep their fingers crossed.
The only thing the banshee "buff" will do, is bring even more cheese in the lower leagues, while in the higher leagues, the banshee will still be as useless/useful (depending on how you see things) as it is now.
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On June 15 2013 20:34 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 19:15 Tsubbi wrote:On June 15 2013 19:11 Sissors wrote:On June 15 2013 19:09 Big J wrote:On June 15 2013 19:04 Sissors wrote:On June 15 2013 18:59 Cokefreak wrote:On June 15 2013 18:57 Foudzing wrote:
The spore got an enormous buff, it's logic that the banshee get a buff aswell.
I'm not sure with the warp prism buff, but I'm ok overall. Spore only got a buff for ZvZ, this Cloak buff affects all match-ups. And in which matchup exactly is it hard to counter banshees. Recently for example I considered doing a cloakshee rush in TvZ, I used to do that long time in the past in WoL. Then I realized since the queen range boost still exist, it is pretty pointless. Cheaper cloak isn't going to change that. (Yes I know the queen range was ground attack, however that resulted in more queens being produced, which make banshees fairly useless for their investment). You Terrans can never let go about that patch, lol. Seems like it did what it was supposed to do, as now not every random coinflip from Terran doesn't work anymore, yet the matchup is balanced because the real problems (infestors, lategame air armies) have been solved. Yeah and we know you zerg like your queens to have siege tank range and splash damage. However my point simply is that zerg still should have no problem with countering banshees. why talk so much shit, we want a balanced game with several viable openings for both races, best player should win right now terran has a few new openings and every hots unit is viable in the matchup, zerg has no new openings and both new units have hardly any use at allon top, winrates so far have been at 55% every month now terran gets a buff to banshee, why do u wonder zergs get upset? The new Zerg units are so strong against mech that you barely see any mech at all.
nah, it's more because bio is way better than mech right now
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On June 15 2013 22:06 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 20:34 Sapphire.lux wrote:On June 15 2013 19:15 Tsubbi wrote:On June 15 2013 19:11 Sissors wrote:On June 15 2013 19:09 Big J wrote:On June 15 2013 19:04 Sissors wrote:On June 15 2013 18:59 Cokefreak wrote:On June 15 2013 18:57 Foudzing wrote:
The spore got an enormous buff, it's logic that the banshee get a buff aswell.
I'm not sure with the warp prism buff, but I'm ok overall. Spore only got a buff for ZvZ, this Cloak buff affects all match-ups. And in which matchup exactly is it hard to counter banshees. Recently for example I considered doing a cloakshee rush in TvZ, I used to do that long time in the past in WoL. Then I realized since the queen range boost still exist, it is pretty pointless. Cheaper cloak isn't going to change that. (Yes I know the queen range was ground attack, however that resulted in more queens being produced, which make banshees fairly useless for their investment). You Terrans can never let go about that patch, lol. Seems like it did what it was supposed to do, as now not every random coinflip from Terran doesn't work anymore, yet the matchup is balanced because the real problems (infestors, lategame air armies) have been solved. Yeah and we know you zerg like your queens to have siege tank range and splash damage. However my point simply is that zerg still should have no problem with countering banshees. why talk so much shit, we want a balanced game with several viable openings for both races, best player should win right now terran has a few new openings and every hots unit is viable in the matchup, zerg has no new openings and both new units have hardly any use at allon top, winrates so far have been at 55% every month now terran gets a buff to banshee, why do u wonder zergs get upset? The new Zerg units are so strong against mech that you barely see any mech at all. nah, it's more because bio is way better than mech right now
Because Vipers make it really hard to make mech work. Also Vipers and the changed Ultra are the reasons that we don't see a lot of tanks anymore in TvZ. I think Zerg has a lot more 2/3 base options than Terran has to be honest.
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All three changes look fine in a vacuum. Aggragated they might shift PvT balance further in the direction of terrans. Still worth a try.
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Ahh, relief!
I didn't really like the last balance comments from David Kim and yet suddenly these notes arrive. 
Warp Prism change, definitely a better boost, if it truly needs one.
Hellbat change = yes, for certain; they will still be extremely strong once you get Infernal Pre-Igniter and strong before that.
Banshee cloaking field? I'll vote later. I'm not sure they need it but I don't think it would be too bad. Currently I think just reducing the cost and not the research time would be better though.
On June 15 2013 22:23 Aiobhill wrote:
All three changes look fine in a vacuum. Aggragated they might shift PvT balance further in the direction of terrans. Still worth a try.
Buffing Warp Prisms, nerfing fixing hellbats and buffing Banshee cloak helps terran more??
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On June 15 2013 22:36 Fuchsteufelswild wrote:Ahh, relief! I didn't really like the last balance comments from David Kim and yet suddenly these notes arrive. Warp Prism change, definitely a better boost, if it truly needs one. Hellbat change = yes, for certain; they will still be extremely strong once you get Infernal Pre-Igniter and strong before that.Banshee cloaking field? I'll vote later. I'm not sure they need it but I don't think it would be too bad. Currently I think just reducing the cost and not the research time would be better though. Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 22:23 Aiobhill wrote:
All three changes look fine in a vacuum. Aggragated they might shift PvT balance further in the direction of terrans. Still worth a try. Buffing Warp Prisms, nerfing fixing hellbats and buffing Banshee cloak helps terran more??
Sorry, but as a player who never drops hellbats, but makes them as a part of my army, hellbats are really not that strong. Muta ling bling just rolls over it  .
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Banshee
Cloaking Field research cost decreased from 200/200 to 100/100
Cloaking Field research time decreased from 110 seconds to 90.
Reduce it any more and ppl will start using cloak to fake getting caduceus reactor xDDD
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I like all the changes especially the banshee buff. Since i'm a terran player i'll write a few words about that.
Banshee buff
In WoL banshee opening was my favorite one (not all-in but cloak rush into expand) b/c it was aggressive, micro intensive and often led to fantastic low-eco, high micro and action games that were much better than passive tank-line standoffs.
In HotS it's so much easier to defend vs banshee opening (spores without evo chamber, better hydras for Z, mines for T, nexus shenanigans for P). But cloak banshee even in WoL was viable almost only in TvT and today thanks to reaper it is so much easier to scout such an opening and prepare appropriately.
I also agree that hellbat drops are too prevalent so they should be nerfed and instead Blizzard is giving us another harassment option. Sounds good to me.
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i now understand where they're going with the warp prism buff, and i fully support it. i also fully support the hellbat change - i remember people in beta requesting this exact change, not only because it made sense, but also because the blue flame looked amazing with the hellbat. it's logical and pleasing to watch.
banshee buff, will do nothing but create a weird imbalance for early game terran - which they don't need. plus the banshee cloaking field hits at a reasonably balanced time.
blizz talks about all this "if it ain't broke don't fix it" jazz, but here they are considering touching one of the more balanced terran units in the early game. i hope the testing proves that the banshee doesn't need to be touched and is fine where it is.
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I love how their at least trying things before patching them to live. The banshee buff is interesting if perhaps a tad overpowered. 1 gas banshee openings are now going to be a thing.
The only good news is now Hyperdub could bring back his 2port banshee build and roll face again LOL
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I think that some kind of buff for banshees is needed though. No one uses them anymore really...
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The banshee change is a very interesting one. I have experimented trying to find the new BO with them and discovered that gas first is no more requiered for the cloak banshe!!! You can go easy for 13 gas, usual 2nd gas after the Factory and still got cloak banshee arriveind at your enemy base at 7:15 with the cloak done!!! Now it will be harder to predict if the enemy is going for cloak,hellions, hellbat, marines if you are not scaning at 6:30. This timing is called the "money scan" and almost every Pro does if he is not able to scout the enemy BO before(using reapers or the lack of Wall allows the SCV to get in the base). The gas first, dont make the banshee come earlier tan before.It hits the same timing, but you got more gas now to spend in other things like addons or maybe upgrades or other gas(tank) units...
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Vatican City State431 Posts
Small balance changes..Yeah right. These are bullshit excuses..Terran doesn't overperform but we decide to nerf them because Innovation is too good. Protoss doesn't perform well at the highest levels but in reality next season of WCS Korea the least represented race is Terran and also let's not forget about PvProleague where 60% of the time you see only PvPs..David Kim will buff Protoss until they will win at least one GSL. I think this is a horrible approach to the game balance. It's only because Innovation 5-0d sOs...Now Proleague will be 80% PvPs and SKT1 will win it because it has the best (most) Protoses.
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On June 15 2013 22:06 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 20:34 Sapphire.lux wrote:On June 15 2013 19:15 Tsubbi wrote:On June 15 2013 19:11 Sissors wrote:On June 15 2013 19:09 Big J wrote:On June 15 2013 19:04 Sissors wrote:On June 15 2013 18:59 Cokefreak wrote:On June 15 2013 18:57 Foudzing wrote:
The spore got an enormous buff, it's logic that the banshee get a buff aswell.
I'm not sure with the warp prism buff, but I'm ok overall. Spore only got a buff for ZvZ, this Cloak buff affects all match-ups. And in which matchup exactly is it hard to counter banshees. Recently for example I considered doing a cloakshee rush in TvZ, I used to do that long time in the past in WoL. Then I realized since the queen range boost still exist, it is pretty pointless. Cheaper cloak isn't going to change that. (Yes I know the queen range was ground attack, however that resulted in more queens being produced, which make banshees fairly useless for their investment). You Terrans can never let go about that patch, lol. Seems like it did what it was supposed to do, as now not every random coinflip from Terran doesn't work anymore, yet the matchup is balanced because the real problems (infestors, lategame air armies) have been solved. Yeah and we know you zerg like your queens to have siege tank range and splash damage. However my point simply is that zerg still should have no problem with countering banshees. why talk so much shit, we want a balanced game with several viable openings for both races, best player should win right now terran has a few new openings and every hots unit is viable in the matchup, zerg has no new openings and both new units have hardly any use at allon top, winrates so far have been at 55% every month now terran gets a buff to banshee, why do u wonder zergs get upset? The new Zerg units are so strong against mech that you barely see any mech at all. nah, it's more because bio is way better than mech right now
it's better for the fast players like Flash and Innovation. For slower players mech is more viable. Even MVP uses mech more often than before due to his wrist/neck hurt
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On June 15 2013 18:40 Holy_AT wrote:
Yeah, Zerg harass options are just lack luster in my opinion.
Yeah we got the muta but you need some of them to be effective and if you got a bunch of them a small misstep will blow them up, thors, spidermines, stimmed marines ...
Dropping is also a bad option, because zerg units run around like retards and get stuck and don't have the burst dps of other units. Maybe we should be able to get an AI research option for our unit because the other races units seem to be much more intelligent.
In my opinion they nydus worm should be a core zerg unit in the zerg arsenal because it would make games much more interesting with it. Nydus worm should be changed in a way to fit this role.
Lackluster? As a zerg I completely disagree with this. Zerglings are fantastic at harass and cost basically nothing, Mutalisk are one of the fastest flying units in the game and can be easily massed, infestors can burrow and launch beachballs, roaches and burrow and pop up anywhere, overlords can drop banelings.. need I go on?
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On June 16 2013 03:51 BrassMonkey27 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 18:40 Holy_AT wrote:
Yeah, Zerg harass options are just lack luster in my opinion.
Yeah we got the muta but you need some of them to be effective and if you got a bunch of them a small misstep will blow them up, thors, spidermines, stimmed marines ...
Dropping is also a bad option, because zerg units run around like retards and get stuck and don't have the burst dps of other units. Maybe we should be able to get an AI research option for our unit because the other races units seem to be much more intelligent.
In my opinion they nydus worm should be a core zerg unit in the zerg arsenal because it would make games much more interesting with it. Nydus worm should be changed in a way to fit this role. Lackluster? As a zerg I completely disagree with this. Zerglings are fantastic at harass and cost basically nothing, Mutalisk are one of the fastest flying units in the game and can be easily massed, infestors can burrow and launch beachballs, roaches and burrow and pop up anywhere, overlords can drop banelings.. need I go on?
just because something exists doesnt mean its usable. no pro uses burrowed infestors or roaches or ovidrop or nydus. its only lings and mutas that are used to harrass since well thats the only viable unit composition. nydus is too expensive, ovidrop is too slow (speedovis move with HT-speed....LOL). burrowed infestors or roaches would be usable if roach hydra or ling infestor would be viable...sadly it isnt on high level.
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EPT
