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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On June 16 2013 04:13 Decendos wrote: just because something exists doesnt mean its usable. no pro uses burrowed infestors or roaches or ovidrop or nydus. You're welcome. | ||
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submarine
Germany290 Posts
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Thor.Rush
Sweden702 Posts
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Phoobie
Canada120 Posts
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Wingblade
United States1806 Posts
On June 16 2013 02:07 p14c wrote: Small balance changes..Yeah right. These are bullshit excuses..Terran doesn't overperform but we decide to nerf them because Innovation is too good. Protoss doesn't perform well at the highest levels but in reality next season of WCS Korea the least represented race is Terran and also let's not forget about PvProleague where 60% of the time you see only PvPs..David Kim will buff Protoss until they will win at least one GSL. I think this is a horrible approach to the game balance. It's only because Innovation 5-0d sOs...Now Proleague will be 80% PvPs and SKT1 will win it because it has the best (most) Protoses. If you would actually look at Proleague stats you'll see that the winrates aren't overwhelmingly in favor of Protoss. There are simply so many Kespa Protoss that it looks bad. Hellbats need to be nerfed, look at their dominance in TvT and impending dominance on the non mirrors. Protoss IS performing poorly on the highest level, not just in Korea but in Europe. | ||
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GreenMash
Norway1746 Posts
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Decendos
Germany1338 Posts
On June 16 2013 04:24 TheDwf wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fq4yRpvJSRE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TjZEcuwpNs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ELQSSFOEGI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gvEt4omx0A You're welcome. thanks but: game 1: mech game. roach hydra viper and therefore burrow movement viable. game 2: roach hydra ovidrop...loses. game 3: roach hydra nydus....loses. game 4: 2 base nydus allin. thats NOT harrass thats a 100% super allin. so even your picked out examples arent viable vs MMMM + hellbat and those where the examples that are pro that strats. and there are many many games where roach hydra failed in the last months on prolevel. the thing is zerg needs only two things to be fun to play again: 1. more viable lairtech army compositions that can compete with ling bane muta (with other up- and downsides). mainly SH + support, roach hydra and ling infestor which already would be 4 comps and enough to have fun and bring some variety in the ling bane muta only lairtech. 2. better non-allin yet possibly effective harrassment strats: thats where small buffs to nydus (faster maybe supplywise unload or make it cheaper) and ovidrop (faster overlords that are faster than HT...) and burrow movement (also just make it a bit faster) come into play. T and P already got way faster drops in HOTS because players of all races got better in defending drops so each race needs faster dropships. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On June 16 2013 04:43 Thor.Rush wrote: So now hellbats are going to be much worse in tvz and tvp, when it was only a TvT hellbat drop nerf that was needed.. why is "only a TvT hellbat drop nerf needed"? Hellbats are just as stupid in TvT as in TvZ and TvP. Go ahead and build a bunch of hellions and a viking and kite the hellbats all day. But somehow when Terran (pro-)players say that though there are possibilities to defend hellbats, the situation is stupid because how much easier it is to pull of hellbat drops than to stop them (like mouzIllusion in the last episode of meta) it's immidiatly valid. When Z/P (pro-)players say so, all we hear is "they are stopable, learn to deal with them". Yeah, there is probably no need to patch them at all, because they are stopable by all races. That doesn't make Terran suffer more, just because they have the easy way out to just hellbat drop against hellbat drop and show the whole stupidity of those BOs. Learn to play or admit that they are stupidly easy to pull off and can just accidently win a game in 3seconds in any matchup. | ||
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Perdac Curall
242 Posts
The problem with Hellbats is simply that they can be healed with medivacs. It makes them overpowered vs units they should suck against (e.g: Stalkers) and it doesn't even really make sense. The Hellion drivers cannot be healed by medivacs but suddenly the hellbat's driver can be. And even if it can be healed, even if somehow you suspend disbelief that much, it still doesn't make any sense, because it is not Hellbat driver you are damaging when you're attacking it, it's the outer mechanical shell of the hellbat that is being damaged. The whole thing makes no sense whatsoever. Save yourselves all the trouble and just make this one simple change and the almost balanced game we currently have will get even better, instead of flipping coins with these new unnecessary changes to so many matchups with changed cloaked banshees. | ||
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
On June 16 2013 06:03 Perdac Curall wrote: With all due respect Blizzard you are not addressing the real problem with hellbats and are potentially creating a whole new set of banshee related problems. The problem with Hellbats is simply that they can be healed with medivacs. It makes them overpowered vs units they should suck against (e.g: Stalkers) and it doesn't even really make sense. The Hellion drivers cannot be healed by medivacs but suddenly the hellbat's driver can be. And even if it can be healed, even if somehow you suspend disbelief that much, it still doesn't make any sense, because it is not Hellbat driver you are damaging when you're attacking it, it's the outer mechanical shell of the hellbat that is being damaged. The whole thing makes no sense whatsoever. Save yourselves all the trouble and just make this one simple change and the almost balanced game we currently have will get even better, instead of flipping coins with these new unnecessary changes to so many matchups with changed cloaked banshees. Exactly. I really wonder why they don't see it. Make healbats unhealable and everything is fine. | ||
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nakedsurfer
Canada500 Posts
On June 15 2013 03:56 DifuntO wrote: Good,now every TvT will be Banshee vs Banshee.That's more fun than Hellbat vs Hellbat,right? Yes because the player who goes Viking raven instead of banshee should be ahead. It is indeed a huge change of cost but I doubt it'll do much to tvt. You'll just end up seeing more "wings" builds where if they both go starport, it might not be both for banshee. I think it will change tvz more than anything. | ||
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Kitaen
Austria466 Posts
On June 15 2013 03:34 Plansix wrote: Sure, I will take it. I hate banshees with the white hot fire of 1000 suns, but we have so much detection now and the cannon, I don't mind a bit of a buff. absolutely agree | ||
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Firkraag8
Sweden1006 Posts
On June 15 2013 03:31 Tobblish wrote: Still want to know why changing so the Hellbat cant get loaded into the Medivac isn't a option. Design or Balance problem??? Design problem, and a warranted one. If you can load a thor into medivac, then don't you think it's a bit silly if you can't load Hellbats? | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On June 16 2013 06:54 Firkraag8 wrote: Design problem, and a warranted one. If you can load a thor into medivac, then don't you think it's a bit silly if you can't load Hellbats? you can't load any form of summoned units (mule, IT, locust, changeling, broodling) into dropships or nydus worms. Nor uprooted spine crawlers or spore crawlers. Nor sieged tanks. Or a building archon. For the first category there is basically no solid explanation. Neither a real one for spines and spores (if they can walk and a thor, colossus or an ultralisk can load up... why not the crawlers?). Sieged tanks and building archons both probably lack the movement to enter a dropship - but then again, all of that stuff can be argued with beaming up and warping out/warping in and could work as well if they wanted to. But apart from that, I think it is a terrible solution as well as way too much of a nerf. | ||
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
On June 16 2013 07:03 Big J wrote: you can't load any form of summoned units (mule, IT, locust, changeling, broodling) into dropships or nydus worms. Nor uprooted spine crawlers or spore crawlers. Nor sieged tanks. Or a building archon. For the first category there is basically no solid explanation. Neither a real one for spines and spores (if they can walk and a thor, colossus or an ultralisk can load up... why not the crawlers?). Sieged tanks and building archons both probably lack the movement to enter a dropship - but then again, all of that stuff can be argued with beaming up and warping out/warping in and could work as well if they wanted to. But apart from that, I think it is a terrible solution as well as way too much of a nerf. Or make them take 5 cargo space. So much options, and they took the wrong one. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On June 16 2013 07:04 Snowbear wrote: Or make them take 5 cargo space. So much options, and they took the wrong one. They didn't even put that option in the editor, so I don't think they will ever consider designing a unit like that. All the cargo sizes have to be rectangles - and even those aren't all viable. You can only choose to make a unit 1, 2, 4 or 8 cargo. I guess, first and foremost it would look weird (how do you design a 5cargo picture in the current UI?) and be very hard to combine (what do you put into that dropship besides the 5supply? a marine and a hellion? - it would probably be very weird for anybody to play with, as there wasn't any multiplier of just one unit to fill up the drop, and you would have to produce weird unit combos to really use that cargo to its fullest) | ||
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Snowbear
Korea (South)1925 Posts
On June 16 2013 07:10 Big J wrote: They didn't even put that option in the editor, so I don't think they will ever consider designing a unit like that. All the cargo sizes have to be rectangles - and even those aren't all viable. You can only choose to make a unit 1, 2, 4 or 8 cargo. I guess, first and foremost it would look weird (how do you design a 5cargo picture in the current UI?) and be very hard to combine (what do you put into that dropship besides the 5supply? a marine and a hellion? - it would probably be very weird for anybody to play with, as there wasn't any multiplier of just one unit to fill up the drop, and you would have to produce weird unit combos to really use that cargo to its fullest) Okay, 6 cargo then. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
well, that's the one rectangle <8 which they didn't put in either. I guess because 8 divided by 6 is not a natural number and therefore you can't load up a dropship solely with multiple such units. | ||
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pieroog
Poland146 Posts
 I hope that in LOTV, warp gate will be removed and this race will finally become a solid one. | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51449 Posts
Nothing beat the nada 1-1-1 opening into banshee into mass marine siege timing was yummy | ||
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