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Yeah, Zerg harass options are just lack luster in my opinion.
Yeah we got the muta but you need some of them to be effective and if you got a bunch of them a small misstep will blow them up, thors, spidermines, stimmed marines ...
Dropping is also a bad option, because zerg units run around like retards and get stuck and don't have the burst dps of other units. Maybe we should be able to get an AI research option for our unit because the other races units seem to be much more intelligent.
In my opinion they nydus worm should be a core zerg unit in the zerg arsenal because it would make games much more interesting with it. Nydus worm should be changed in a way to fit this role.
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On June 15 2013 18:37 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 18:05 Tsubbi wrote:
they want to promote more early game options for terran, sorry but wtf is this? zerg has NOTHING new, nada zero niente and every game is just the same opening like in wol to minute 10
also winrates are in favor of terran already, this month is gonna be above 55% in tvz again and probably even higher
i know everyone and their mother hates wol broodlord infestor zerg but blizzard should stop their vendetta asap How are banshees being slightly buffed going to really affect zerg? You have anti air by proxy of having a queen and also spore crawlers don't require a building anymore (which I still don't agree with).
Terran has a T1 counterall ground&air singlefire units unit (which I still don't agree with) and still people say that that buff is going to affect TvT...
That's also how it will affect TvZ.
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Yep, yep, ye- No. They're kidding, right?
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The spore got an enormous buff, it's logic that the banshee get a buff aswell.
I'm not sure with the warp prism buff, but I'm ok overall.
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On June 15 2013 18:57 Foudzing wrote:
The spore got an enormous buff, it's logic that the banshee get a buff aswell.
I'm not sure with the warp prism buff, but I'm ok overall.
Spore only got a buff for ZvZ, this Cloak buff affects all match-ups.
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On June 15 2013 18:59 Cokefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 18:57 Foudzing wrote:
The spore got an enormous buff, it's logic that the banshee get a buff aswell.
I'm not sure with the warp prism buff, but I'm ok overall. Spore only got a buff for ZvZ, this Cloak buff affects all match-ups.
No evo requirement was a buff for Zerg in all match-ups. That's for sure.
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On June 15 2013 18:59 Cokefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 18:57 Foudzing wrote:
The spore got an enormous buff, it's logic that the banshee get a buff aswell.
I'm not sure with the warp prism buff, but I'm ok overall. Spore only got a buff for ZvZ, this Cloak buff affects all match-ups.
And in which matchup exactly is it hard to counter banshees. Recently for example I considered doing a cloakshee rush in TvZ, I used to do that long time in the past in WoL. Then I realized since the queen range boost still exist, it is pretty pointless. Cheaper cloak isn't going to change that. (Yes I know the queen range was ground attack, however that resulted in more queens being produced, which make banshees fairly useless for their investment).
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WP buff sure, Hellbat nerf.... IGUESS even though hellbats themselves arent the real problem imo,
is 1gas cloaked banshee an actual possibility now?
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On June 15 2013 18:05 Tsubbi wrote:
they want to promote more early game options for terran, sorry but wtf is this? zerg has NOTHING new, nada zero niente and every game is just the same opening like in wol to minute 10
also winrates are in favor of terran already, this month is gonna be above 55% in tvz again and probably even higher
i know everyone and their mother hates wol broodlord infestor zerg but blizzard should stop their vendetta asap
Yes, early game zerg isn't terrifying enough to deal with for Protoss and Terran. I am not happy with my game therefore Blizzard is on a vendetta to ruin my fun.
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On June 15 2013 19:04 Sissors wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 18:59 Cokefreak wrote:On June 15 2013 18:57 Foudzing wrote:
The spore got an enormous buff, it's logic that the banshee get a buff aswell.
I'm not sure with the warp prism buff, but I'm ok overall. Spore only got a buff for ZvZ, this Cloak buff affects all match-ups. And in which matchup exactly is it hard to counter banshees. Recently for example I considered doing a cloakshee rush in TvZ, I used to do that long time in the past in WoL. Then I realized since the queen range boost still exist, it is pretty pointless. Cheaper cloak isn't going to change that. (Yes I know the queen range was ground attack, however that resulted in more queens being produced, which make banshees fairly useless for their investment).
You Terrans can never let go about that patch, lol.
Seems like it did what it was supposed to do, as now not every random coinflip from Terran doesn't work anymore, yet the matchup is balanced because the real problems (infestors, lategame air armies) have been solved.
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Warpprism: still negative about it, but guess we will have to see how it turns out.
Hellbat: feels like a bit of overnerf, but we certainly needed a small change to them. Howerver, if you take away the strongest thing about terran, a very weak race is left with only widdowmines (all other units are either on the same level or weaker than their similar unit for the other races or simply too easy to hardcounter). If you want to nerf the hellbat, a buff like the banshee one is a requirement! so overall i agree with this nerf, IF terran gets buffed in another way too.
Banshee: not used very much these days, require much micro and once opponent chooses to counter (1/2 spore/turret/cannon) they are totally useless. That's why not many people take the risk anymore, while it gave some nice games in WoL. With reducing the cost of the cloaking, teching to banshee will be less of a commitment and can be used more often with less risk, unlike the current metagame where you can pretty much tap out if you make cloak banshee and see detection when you arrive at their base. Totally agree with the banshee buff! Also it's an alternative to hellbat drops, which have received alot of complaints recently. By buffing cloak banshee the amount of hellbat drops will reduce by themselves and even more with the hellbat nerf (as both of them require the starport, you will have to pick to either tech it and research clock, meaning no drops for this time, or make a medivac, disallowing the construction of techlab while making it and therefore not allowing banshee/cloak at the same time) . Looks like a great change!
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On June 15 2013 19:09 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 19:04 Sissors wrote:On June 15 2013 18:59 Cokefreak wrote:On June 15 2013 18:57 Foudzing wrote:
The spore got an enormous buff, it's logic that the banshee get a buff aswell.
I'm not sure with the warp prism buff, but I'm ok overall. Spore only got a buff for ZvZ, this Cloak buff affects all match-ups. And in which matchup exactly is it hard to counter banshees. Recently for example I considered doing a cloakshee rush in TvZ, I used to do that long time in the past in WoL. Then I realized since the queen range boost still exist, it is pretty pointless. Cheaper cloak isn't going to change that. (Yes I know the queen range was ground attack, however that resulted in more queens being produced, which make banshees fairly useless for their investment). You Terrans can never let go about that patch, lol. Seems like it did what it was supposed to do, as now not every random coinflip from Terran doesn't work anymore, yet the matchup is balanced because the real problems (infestors, lategame air armies) have been solved.
Yeah and we know you zerg like your queens to have siege tank range and splash damage.
However my point simply is that zerg still should have no problem with countering banshees.
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On June 15 2013 19:11 Sissors wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 19:09 Big J wrote:On June 15 2013 19:04 Sissors wrote:On June 15 2013 18:59 Cokefreak wrote:On June 15 2013 18:57 Foudzing wrote:
The spore got an enormous buff, it's logic that the banshee get a buff aswell.
I'm not sure with the warp prism buff, but I'm ok overall. Spore only got a buff for ZvZ, this Cloak buff affects all match-ups. And in which matchup exactly is it hard to counter banshees. Recently for example I considered doing a cloakshee rush in TvZ, I used to do that long time in the past in WoL. Then I realized since the queen range boost still exist, it is pretty pointless. Cheaper cloak isn't going to change that. (Yes I know the queen range was ground attack, however that resulted in more queens being produced, which make banshees fairly useless for their investment). You Terrans can never let go about that patch, lol. Seems like it did what it was supposed to do, as now not every random coinflip from Terran doesn't work anymore, yet the matchup is balanced because the real problems (infestors, lategame air armies) have been solved. Yeah and we know you zerg like your queens to have siege tank range and splash damage. However my point simply is that zerg still should have no problem with countering banshees.
why talk so much shit, we want a balanced game with several viable openings for both races, best player should win
right now terran has a few new openings and every hots unit is viable in the matchup, zerg has no new openings and both new units have hardly any use at all
on top, winrates so far have been at 55% every month
now terran gets a buff to banshee, why do u wonder zergs get upset?
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On June 15 2013 19:11 Sissors wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 19:09 Big J wrote:On June 15 2013 19:04 Sissors wrote:On June 15 2013 18:59 Cokefreak wrote:On June 15 2013 18:57 Foudzing wrote:
The spore got an enormous buff, it's logic that the banshee get a buff aswell.
I'm not sure with the warp prism buff, but I'm ok overall. Spore only got a buff for ZvZ, this Cloak buff affects all match-ups. And in which matchup exactly is it hard to counter banshees. Recently for example I considered doing a cloakshee rush in TvZ, I used to do that long time in the past in WoL. Then I realized since the queen range boost still exist, it is pretty pointless. Cheaper cloak isn't going to change that. (Yes I know the queen range was ground attack, however that resulted in more queens being produced, which make banshees fairly useless for their investment). You Terrans can never let go about that patch, lol. Seems like it did what it was supposed to do, as now not every random coinflip from Terran doesn't work anymore, yet the matchup is balanced because the real problems (infestors, lategame air armies) have been solved. Yeah and we know you zerg like your queens to have siege tank range and splash damage. However my point simply is that zerg still should have no problem with countering banshees.
Yeah sure, all those demands from zerg players we read everywhere that blizzard should buff the queen. Lol, you really have to come with something better.
Your point is as much true as saying "Terran does not have problems with countering mutalisks". Which may be true, but still doesn't mean that mutalisks aren't powerful in TvZ. Just because you can build spores and queens early on and be safe, doesn't mean that it is plainly reasonable to always have them or that they can guard everything. That's where cloakshees come into play.
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On June 15 2013 03:49 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 03:48 Targe wrote:On June 15 2013 03:45 Snowbear wrote:PLEASE Blizzard! Hellbat DROPS are the problem >>> nerf damage. People who mix in hellbats instead of mines (TvZ) in their army, get nerfed. The drops will still happen, but hellbat instead of mines in your army is dead as hell. I can't believe this  . This is just a nerf to hellbat in army, not hellbat drops imo. Cloack: this makes tvt a bigger coinflip. Is that good? What, this nerfs early hellbat drops though. I like the changes, Warp prism good, Hellbat is pretty good and Banshee could turn out good, depends if banshees become the go to unit. Imagine you are a terran that doesn't want to play marine mine, and you prefer hellbat marine. This is nerfed and done. Meanwhile speedvac + hellbat harass is still possible, and will still do a shitton of damage.
This hellbat change is ONLY for drops in my eyes. You can upgrade the pre-igniter to put the damage back to before the balance test. You need to slow down and read before you go guns ablazin'
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I don't know what people smoked to think you could go 1 gas cloakshee. With only one gas you can buy cloak at about 70% of the building time of your second banshee (6mn30 or so), so no you can't open fast cloak with only 1 gas even with the buff. It will allow for more powerful 1/1/1 though, as you'll have more gas to throw into tanks and stuff, but I don't think this buff is terribly game changing. It wasn't really needed either, I feel like a slight reduction of the banshee build time would have been better to promote its use.
The warp prism change is still pretty weird to me. I mean, I'm all for action packed games and harassment rather than deathballs, BUT protoss has the best f'in deathball in the damn game, so what if on top of that they can keep you at home while taking easy expands thanks to zoomzoomprism? Warp prism strategies are already pretty effective (Super i'm looking at you), protosses just don't like to use them for whatever reason (probably because most of them prefer to be defensive and focus on that). So I really feel it could be a game breaker in the hands of people like HerO or Rain...
The hellbat change is okay, +1 hellbat drops will still do the same as pre nerf drops, except in TvT which is kind of good I guess. They'll be worse in direct engagements early which is a good thing.
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On June 15 2013 18:41 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 18:37 Qikz wrote:
How are banshees being slightly buffed going to really affect zerg? You have anti air by proxy of having a queen and also spore crawlers don't require a building anymore (which I still don't agree with). Terran has a T1 counterall ground&air singlefire units unit (which I still don't agree with) and still people say that that buff is going to affect TvT... That's also how it will affect TvZ.
That's not an accurate analysis of cloaked banshee in tvt vs tvz...
Banshees outrange marines and can 2 shot them, so that even a single banshee with good control can wither down early game marine count much easier than taking down queens.
That and this buff is more about cloak/detection. Sure, terrans get scan but it's temporary and can be baited by the banshee user. Build spore isn't ideal for zerg player either but one + inject queen can permanently shut down banshee harass on that mineral line.
Also another big difference is that zerg has the luxury (or curse depending on situation but in this case it helps them out imo) of having fewest building counts. Terran and protoss has to have multiple buildings which take much larger area, and cloaked banshee can harass those buildings (in terran's case, scvs that are building those buildings as well) instead of the mineral line, while zerg only has to worry about the mineral line.
Or was your post just parodying Qikz?
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On June 15 2013 19:15 Tsubbi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 19:11 Sissors wrote:On June 15 2013 19:09 Big J wrote:On June 15 2013 19:04 Sissors wrote:On June 15 2013 18:59 Cokefreak wrote:On June 15 2013 18:57 Foudzing wrote:
The spore got an enormous buff, it's logic that the banshee get a buff aswell.
I'm not sure with the warp prism buff, but I'm ok overall. Spore only got a buff for ZvZ, this Cloak buff affects all match-ups. And in which matchup exactly is it hard to counter banshees. Recently for example I considered doing a cloakshee rush in TvZ, I used to do that long time in the past in WoL. Then I realized since the queen range boost still exist, it is pretty pointless. Cheaper cloak isn't going to change that. (Yes I know the queen range was ground attack, however that resulted in more queens being produced, which make banshees fairly useless for their investment). You Terrans can never let go about that patch, lol. Seems like it did what it was supposed to do, as now not every random coinflip from Terran doesn't work anymore, yet the matchup is balanced because the real problems (infestors, lategame air armies) have been solved. Yeah and we know you zerg like your queens to have siege tank range and splash damage. However my point simply is that zerg still should have no problem with countering banshees. why talk so much shit, we want a balanced game with several viable openings for both races, best player should win right now terran has a few new openings and every hots unit is viable in the matchup, zerg has no new openings and both new units have hardly any use at all on top, winrates so far have been at 55% every month now terran gets a buff to banshee, why do u wonder zergs get upset?
You also get a nerf to early game hellbat drops/pushes which actually exist in the current meta. If I was a zerg I would be very happy with this patch, but some people just have to find a reason to whine eh?
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On June 15 2013 20:06 Gaizokubanou wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2013 18:41 Big J wrote:On June 15 2013 18:37 Qikz wrote:
How are banshees being slightly buffed going to really affect zerg? You have anti air by proxy of having a queen and also spore crawlers don't require a building anymore (which I still don't agree with). Terran has a T1 counterall ground&air singlefire units unit (which I still don't agree with) and still people say that that buff is going to affect TvT... That's also how it will affect TvZ. That's not an accurate analysis of cloaked banshee in tvt vs tvz... Banshees outrange marines and can 2 shot them, so that even a single banshee with good control can wither down early game marine count much easier than taking down queens. That and this buff is more about cloak/detection. Sure, terrans get scan but it's temporary and can be baited by the banshee user. Build spore isn't ideal for zerg player either but one + inject queen can permanently shut down banshee harass on that mineral line. Also another big difference is that zerg has the luxury (or curse depending on situation but in this case it helps them out imo) of having fewest building counts. Terran and protoss has to have multiple buildings which take much larger area, and cloaked banshee can harass those buildings (in terran's case, scvs that are building those buildings as well) instead of the mineral line, while zerg only has to worry about the mineral line. Or was your post just parodying Qikz?
I was mainly parodying Qikz - as his argument doesn't make sense the way he phrases it. (plainly stating what zerg has, so I thought I'd plainly state what Terran has) Like, of course I can slap down banshee play with building 4spores and 4queens early and not building a third base - but it's overall not a good/flexible opening. And same goes for TvT, where you can slap down banshee play by doing something like rax-CC-rax-ebay and just spamming marines/turrets - but it is generally not a good opening.
From what we know, banshee's have been quite viable in TvZ and were basically the number one macro opening in the last year. And the only early on relevant change has been that you don't need an evochamber for spores anymore (125minerals+1larva cheaper). And now Terran may get a similar change with 100/100/20 cheaper cloak. Sounds like a quite fair exchange, if not even a slight buff to cloaked banshee play, relative to the time when banshees were already viable.
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Hellbats nerf is stupid. It is stupid. It is just stupid.
Banshee buff?! What's the problem with banshee? ...
Idiots. Only idiots are in blizzard. The same idiots as always.
Once again story of WoL is back. Nerf terran, nerf terran to the ground! It is so overpowered!...
OMG, fuck them all. Seriously. These people are just a bunch of freaking jerks.
This game would be so awesome without them.
User was banned for this post.
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