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Hellbat
223 Posts
On June 15 2013 05:45 ZenithM wrote: Protip: Oracle detect, outrun, and destroy banshees. 2 oracles or 1 oracle + 1 phoenix is all it takes to shutdown banshees HARD. Oracles can't attack air.... | ||
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
On June 15 2013 11:33 Zealot Lord wrote: QFT.. a stalker buff (especially antiair damage) is what I've been clamoring for since the beginning of WoL - its such a terrible unit by cost. Completely agree. Fuckin ground vikings do more dps than stalkers. I shit you not. Originally buffing stalkers would have broken 4 gate, but 4 gate is completely useless now. At least buff their upgrade dmg. They only get +1 per attack. What a joke. | ||
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CakeSauc3
United States1437 Posts
Which is why he mentioned the phoenix  | ||
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Hangman89
Singapore43 Posts
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Fig
United States1324 Posts
On June 15 2013 08:06 eXdeath wrote: WP : Yes. Since the upgrade is now less significant, they could consider reducing its price slightly, or merging it with the observer speed. What a brilliant idea. | ||
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lemonbone
Hong Kong154 Posts
The other changes are just stupid lol. They should nerf sentry then buff zealot+stalker by allowing micro to increase their usability. Oh... | ||
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Hellbat
223 Posts
On June 15 2013 11:25 aZealot wrote: You and me both! I've been wanting a stronger Stalker for a very long time. Any buff to the Stalker (straight base damage and hp for example) would have to be balanced by a corresponding nerf to Blink though. Anything less would not be fair. Anyway, sorry for the derail. I like all of these changes, with the exception of the cheapness of the Banshee cloak upgrade. But, like I said earlier in the thread, I think these changes are an extreme version of what eventually makes it to the patch. Well, HotS seems like a good time to introduce such a change considering they have already nerfed blink. Would be a decent trade off. Yet he also said 2 oracles  Would be interesting if Oracles could attack air. In fact if they could, they would be a pretty decent counter to banshees considering the bonus damage it does to light (and banshee is a light unit) | ||
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Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
I like the idea of promoting more banshee usage but I think the cost the should be decreased to 150/150 with the research reduction OR the cost decreased to 100/100 and the research time is left the same. Feels like hellbat openings are just going to be replaced with banshee rushes every game. I'm sure Blizzard will take note of stuff like this after people have played on the map and given feedback though, so we'll see. I like the initiative on proposing these changes at least though. | ||
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NicolBolas
United States1388 Posts
On June 15 2013 03:45 Snowbear wrote: PLEASE Blizzard! Hellbat DROPS are the problem >>> nerf damage. People who mix in hellbats instead of mines (TvZ) in their army, get nerfed. The drops will still happen, but hellbat instead of mines in your army is dead as hell. I can't believe this  . This is just a nerf to hellbat in army, not hellbat drops imo.Nerfed by requiring some research. By the time you've got an army to use Hellbats with, you'll already have the research. The point is to make fast Hellbat drops slower or less damaging. That research cost means your Medivac is going to be that much slower coming out, or you're going to have to sacrifice something else in order to get the research upgraded before you drop. That's how it weakens drops. I honestly have no idea where they're going with the cloak buff though... | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
On June 15 2013 11:20 Drowsy wrote: I would like it if stalkers no longer sucked so badly in every matchup. Annihilated in cost efficiency vs hydras, roaches, or lings (take your pic, really), crushed by the unit they're supposed to counter in pvp (vrs), and terrible against everything but small groups of marines in pvt. Sadly, I think the boat has long sailed on this. | ||
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bhfberserk
Canada390 Posts
Have to test out the map. Seems positive overall. | ||
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ETisME
12889 Posts
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PhoenixM1
United States178 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On June 15 2013 12:35 Hangman89 wrote: Hellbats damage nerf is a bit too drastic for me as i think it will reduce their performance against chargelots. My beef with Hellbats is that they can be be healed. Nah, Hellbats should have blue flame just because... it's nice and it was from the start. Don't know why they removed blue flame for hellbats at some time | ||
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shin_toss
Philippines2589 Posts
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Nerski
United States1095 Posts
HellBat: While I'd of still liked to see them just remove the healing or something of that nature, at least early 1 base hellions won't be quite so powerful, which is really the big problem with them right now. Late game currently they are good but I wouldn't say broken, so the change could work. Banshee: You could probably argue the HB drops were a large issue in all match ups, but cloaked banshee will be stupid in TvP and TvT with a change like this. It easily could replace the HB drop. | ||
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Antylamon
United States1981 Posts
All in all Terran has more equally viable choices for harass (just when I thought it wouldn't be possible) and Hellbat drops arrive later. | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
And guess what. Get the blue flame and bam you have your bonus back. So enjoy your free wins for now. EDIT: As for the Banshee. I we don't need faster/cheaper cloak. What we need are faster banshees. Protoss and Zerg are pretty immune to banshee openers. The only thing Banshees are gonna do is make TvT really stupid. not to mention weaken Mech TvT because your so much better off getting a crap ton of marines. Protoss: Stargate/Robo shut it down + MS Core Zerg: Spores that require Spawning pool. | ||
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Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
On June 15 2013 14:24 Antylamon wrote: I feel like the Banshee change isn't that big of a deal. 250/200 is a huge investment compared to 300/100 and it can't do nearly as much damage as a Hellbat drop provided that scans exist. Two Banshees would probably balance it out, but that's 400/300. Even after the Hellbat nerf the drops will cost only 450/250. All in all Terran has more equally viable choices for harass (just when I thought it wouldn't be possible) and Hellbat drops arrive later. Ehhh I wouldn't agree with that. Provided that scans exist? That's very vague. You still have limited scans, and if you don't kill the banshee with the scan you're going to have hardly any SCVs by the time you have another scan. Even with scans, you need stimmed marines and/or turrets and/or vikings to take down the banshee. Depending on the opening those may be things you don't have. Even in the pro scene there are games that last no longer than 10 minutes due to significant banshee damage. If your opponent goes hellbat drop and you don't scout it, you lose some SCVs, then get your units in position to defend and the threat is thwarted. If your opponent goes banshee and you don't scout it, it's in your base killing stuff and much harder to effectively defend. It's not uncommon to see a banshee kill 15+ units in a game, and with even faster cloak and research time that only goes up. I think it definitely compares to the damage hellbat drops do. If it was a banshee opening vs a hellbat opening the build order advantage probably goes to the hellbat player though just because you can make 2 vikings asap, but I would say both openings can do comparable damage to an assortment of other Terran openings. | ||
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Howl41
United States65 Posts
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