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France9034 Posts
On June 13 2013 16:42 DarkLordOlli wrote:
I'm just waiting for that protoss heavy group. PvP Bo1 is how every tournament should be played
Yeah, not much difference between a Bo1 and a Bo9 in PvP anyway :p
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On June 13 2013 16:42 GolemMadness wrote:
People are being so ridiculous about this. First of all, just because it's Bo1 doesn't mean that it's "totally random" who's going to win. If it was that random, then inferior players would just cheese every game in a Bo3 as well and it'd still be totally random who'd make it through.
Secondly, what about Proleague? If Bo1 is so stupid and all that happens is the inferior player takes out the better player all the time, why are players like Flash, Bogus, Soulkey, Rain, etc, so dominant in Proleague? Why aren't we seeing them just going 50% because Bo1 is so random?
Thirdly, where exactly is the proof that things are so terrible in a Bo1 format? From the previous OSL, where the better players generally advanced? Or from two years ago, when the game was played completely differently? Calm the shit down and wait to see what happens.
My main concern is PvP, all of Rain's HotS losses in Proleague are vsP. He's 100% vs T and Z, PvP is just too build order reliant for bo1's.
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On June 13 2013 16:21 Ragnarork wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 15:59 VManOfMana wrote:On June 13 2013 15:15 hzflank wrote:Why are OGN involved in this thing again? WCS Korea, and the WCS finals, would of been so much better if Gretech had done it all. On June 13 2013 14:39 vesicular wrote:
I seem to remember people pissing and moaning about Proleague when they found out the format after it switched to SC2 as well. In fact, you could probably just copy this thread and change "OSL" to "PL" and it would probably be the same thing. People eventually came around.
Like most things, people are just overreacting because they haven't experienced it. OSL is wonderful, tense and dramatic and has been the premier SC tournament for a decade for a reason. We experienced an SC2 OSL last year and it was bad. You can't compare the level of KeSPA players during the first OSL (fresh from dual proleague) and now. The GSL used to use best of 1 in early 2011. It was changed because it is an inferior format. Starcraft 2 in 2011 was a complete joke. Especially the map pool. On June 13 2013 15:23 hzflank wrote:
No idea about what? Ofcourse Gom will do season 3, we already knew that and it is completely irrelevant.
So what do I not have any idea about? Are you trying to tell me that the OSL last year was as good as any of the GSL?
And why should people like me not complain? Gretech has done a great job for the last couple of years and have tweaked their format to make it better for us viewers. OGN is using a format without even considering what the viewers want to see. Best case is the results are the same but we get to watch less games, which makes it lose/lose. Have you considered you are *not* OGN's main target audience? It's not like there was no eSports before SC2 or you came in. So OGN main target audience is BW viewers that switched to SC2 ? And to be sure not to miss this huge core audience, they want to keep a format that involves more luck, in a game that's known to have a bit more luck involved as well than BW ? I completely fail to understand what could possibly justify that. "Conserving uniformity" ? Well, keep your crappy format then. Oh, and the fact that SC2 was a joke in 2011 is completely irrelevant, we talk about production quality. OT: Same as the first SC2 OSL. Will watch a few matches, then wait for the finals, hoping for something interesting to watch.. Either improve, OGN, or please give that back to Gretech. GSL may not have the holy aura of BW behind it. It may not have the huuuuuge audience of OGN by many times. Still, it's been far better watching GSL than OSL so far in SC2. And the massive influx of KeSPA players made it even better.
if you don't like it don't watch it.
meanwhile let us who like the OSL format enjoy it...
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
I'm just gonna state this every time Bo1 format comes up. I could take first place in a Bo1 group by proxy gating 2 times in a row and hoping my opponents build order lose to it. Mindgames man. In a Bo3+ the possibility of that working is infinitely smaller.
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I dunno why everyones griping about the bo1 format lol definetly will make things interesting. I dont think it'll affect good players getting through. Means everyone has to play on their game every game and makes every THAT MUCH more important.
BTW this may have been asked already but does anyone have a link or image to the new osl map?
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so now not only that because of the WCS we wont see here teaja, mc and other good players, we also get this fucking lame bo1 ro32.
this WCS sucks, its making code S much worse!
fuck this.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Best of 1....need gtfo seriously.
What a joke that is fml. Thanks for ruining the RO32 OSL, i appreciate it. I won't be tuning in until the RO16, which will be a lottery.
Expect the likes of Innovation/Soulkey/Flash all to go out in RO32 btw people. Better players don't win BO1s. Look at WCS main event just gone. If BO1 was viable the tournament would of been so different.
Such a joke with BO1 :@
(yeah im pissed >.<)
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Is there any links to the new maps?
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France9034 Posts
On June 13 2013 16:44 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 16:21 Ragnarork wrote:On June 13 2013 15:59 VManOfMana wrote:On June 13 2013 15:15 hzflank wrote:Why are OGN involved in this thing again? WCS Korea, and the WCS finals, would of been so much better if Gretech had done it all. On June 13 2013 14:39 vesicular wrote:
I seem to remember people pissing and moaning about Proleague when they found out the format after it switched to SC2 as well. In fact, you could probably just copy this thread and change "OSL" to "PL" and it would probably be the same thing. People eventually came around.
Like most things, people are just overreacting because they haven't experienced it. OSL is wonderful, tense and dramatic and has been the premier SC tournament for a decade for a reason. We experienced an SC2 OSL last year and it was bad. You can't compare the level of KeSPA players during the first OSL (fresh from dual proleague) and now. The GSL used to use best of 1 in early 2011. It was changed because it is an inferior format. Starcraft 2 in 2011 was a complete joke. Especially the map pool. On June 13 2013 15:23 hzflank wrote:
No idea about what? Ofcourse Gom will do season 3, we already knew that and it is completely irrelevant.
So what do I not have any idea about? Are you trying to tell me that the OSL last year was as good as any of the GSL?
And why should people like me not complain? Gretech has done a great job for the last couple of years and have tweaked their format to make it better for us viewers. OGN is using a format without even considering what the viewers want to see. Best case is the results are the same but we get to watch less games, which makes it lose/lose. Have you considered you are *not* OGN's main target audience? It's not like there was no eSports before SC2 or you came in. So OGN main target audience is BW viewers that switched to SC2 ? And to be sure not to miss this huge core audience, they want to keep a format that involves more luck, in a game that's known to have a bit more luck involved as well than BW ? I completely fail to understand what could possibly justify that. "Conserving uniformity" ? Well, keep your crappy format then. Oh, and the fact that SC2 was a joke in 2011 is completely irrelevant, we talk about production quality. OT: Same as the first SC2 OSL. Will watch a few matches, then wait for the finals, hoping for something interesting to watch.. Either improve, OGN, or please give that back to Gretech. GSL may not have the holy aura of BW behind it. It may not have the huuuuuge audience of OGN by many times. Still, it's been far better watching GSL than OSL so far in SC2. And the massive influx of KeSPA players made it even better. if you don't like it don't watch it. meanwhile let us who like the OSL format enjoy it...
I would have been totally fine with it.
If it was an OSL, and not a WCS OSL. Yep :/
On June 13 2013 16:46 Pandemona wrote:
Best of 1....need gtfo seriously.
What a joke that is fml. Thanks for ruining the RO32 OSL, i appreciate it. I won't be tuning in until the RO16, which will be a lottery.
Expect the likes of Innovation/Soulkey/Flash all to go out in RO32 btw people. Better players don't win BO1s. Look at WCS main event just gone. If BO1 was viable the tournament would of been so different.
Such a joke with BO1 :@
(yeah im pissed >.<)
Calm down. Even if Bo1 is more random, it's still quite not expected that Life/Flash/INno don't get through the Ro32...
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On June 13 2013 16:44 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 16:42 GolemMadness wrote:
People are being so ridiculous about this. First of all, just because it's Bo1 doesn't mean that it's "totally random" who's going to win. If it was that random, then inferior players would just cheese every game in a Bo3 as well and it'd still be totally random who'd make it through.
Secondly, what about Proleague? If Bo1 is so stupid and all that happens is the inferior player takes out the better player all the time, why are players like Flash, Bogus, Soulkey, Rain, etc, so dominant in Proleague? Why aren't we seeing them just going 50% because Bo1 is so random?
Thirdly, where exactly is the proof that things are so terrible in a Bo1 format? From the previous OSL, where the better players generally advanced? Or from two years ago, when the game was played completely differently? Calm the shit down and wait to see what happens. My main concern is PvP, all of Rain's HotS losses in Proleague are vsP. He's 100% vs T and Z, PvP is just too build order reliant for bo1's.
I'd like to disagree, PvP is a matchup where even in a best of 1, the skill gap is very apparent. Build orders are not as important in PvP as they were in wings of liberty, all 3 tech trees have a good chance against the other tech trees and there are PvP build orders that don't lose outright to any other builds (of course you can choose builds that have hard counters like 3 gate pressure which just loses to DT). Most build order losses happen when you play too greedy, or you do an all-in that is countered. Safe stargate, robo or even DT expand doesn't really lose to anything.
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On June 13 2013 16:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:
I'm just gonna state this every time Bo1 format comes up. I could take first place in a Bo1 group by proxy gating 2 times in a row and hoping my opponents build order lose to it. Mindgames man. In a Bo3+ the possibility of that working is infinitely smaller.
don't u think that would happen alot if it was that freaking easy?
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On June 13 2013 16:44 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 16:42 GolemMadness wrote:
People are being so ridiculous about this. First of all, just because it's Bo1 doesn't mean that it's "totally random" who's going to win. If it was that random, then inferior players would just cheese every game in a Bo3 as well and it'd still be totally random who'd make it through.
Secondly, what about Proleague? If Bo1 is so stupid and all that happens is the inferior player takes out the better player all the time, why are players like Flash, Bogus, Soulkey, Rain, etc, so dominant in Proleague? Why aren't we seeing them just going 50% because Bo1 is so random?
Thirdly, where exactly is the proof that things are so terrible in a Bo1 format? From the previous OSL, where the better players generally advanced? Or from two years ago, when the game was played completely differently? Calm the shit down and wait to see what happens. My main concern is PvP, all of Rain's HotS losses in Proleague are vsP. He's 100% vs T and Z, PvP is just too build order reliant for bo1's.
From what I've seen, Rain's only "build order loss" in recent games was when he went for a proxy twilight and it didn't work out. PvP isn't the same match up it was in WoL.
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opterown
Australia54785 Posts
i'm guessing there's an element of pride as well in playing BO1s, fans probably won't like it if you cheese out the favourites to advance, so there's a bit of pressure to try at least a "real" game
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On June 13 2013 16:47 Ragnarork wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 16:44 gobbledydook wrote:On June 13 2013 16:21 Ragnarork wrote:On June 13 2013 15:59 VManOfMana wrote:On June 13 2013 15:15 hzflank wrote:Why are OGN involved in this thing again? WCS Korea, and the WCS finals, would of been so much better if Gretech had done it all. On June 13 2013 14:39 vesicular wrote:
I seem to remember people pissing and moaning about Proleague when they found out the format after it switched to SC2 as well. In fact, you could probably just copy this thread and change "OSL" to "PL" and it would probably be the same thing. People eventually came around.
Like most things, people are just overreacting because they haven't experienced it. OSL is wonderful, tense and dramatic and has been the premier SC tournament for a decade for a reason. We experienced an SC2 OSL last year and it was bad. You can't compare the level of KeSPA players during the first OSL (fresh from dual proleague) and now. The GSL used to use best of 1 in early 2011. It was changed because it is an inferior format. Starcraft 2 in 2011 was a complete joke. Especially the map pool. On June 13 2013 15:23 hzflank wrote:
No idea about what? Ofcourse Gom will do season 3, we already knew that and it is completely irrelevant.
So what do I not have any idea about? Are you trying to tell me that the OSL last year was as good as any of the GSL?
And why should people like me not complain? Gretech has done a great job for the last couple of years and have tweaked their format to make it better for us viewers. OGN is using a format without even considering what the viewers want to see. Best case is the results are the same but we get to watch less games, which makes it lose/lose. Have you considered you are *not* OGN's main target audience? It's not like there was no eSports before SC2 or you came in. So OGN main target audience is BW viewers that switched to SC2 ? And to be sure not to miss this huge core audience, they want to keep a format that involves more luck, in a game that's known to have a bit more luck involved as well than BW ? I completely fail to understand what could possibly justify that. "Conserving uniformity" ? Well, keep your crappy format then. Oh, and the fact that SC2 was a joke in 2011 is completely irrelevant, we talk about production quality. OT: Same as the first SC2 OSL. Will watch a few matches, then wait for the finals, hoping for something interesting to watch.. Either improve, OGN, or please give that back to Gretech. GSL may not have the holy aura of BW behind it. It may not have the huuuuuge audience of OGN by many times. Still, it's been far better watching GSL than OSL so far in SC2. And the massive influx of KeSPA players made it even better. if you don't like it don't watch it. meanwhile let us who like the OSL format enjoy it... I would have been totally fine with it. If it was an OSL, and not a WCS OSL. Yep :/
That's my problem with this exactly.
Let OSL be OSL, whatever. It's their choice if they want a completely random Ro16. But this time they're a qualifier for something that's supposed to be the Masters of SC2. And Bo1 should not ever ever ever at any stage be used as a qualifying format for such an event.
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Makes me wish GOM was running it again...
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On June 13 2013 16:50 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 16:47 Ragnarork wrote:On June 13 2013 16:44 gobbledydook wrote:On June 13 2013 16:21 Ragnarork wrote:On June 13 2013 15:59 VManOfMana wrote:On June 13 2013 15:15 hzflank wrote:Why are OGN involved in this thing again? WCS Korea, and the WCS finals, would of been so much better if Gretech had done it all. On June 13 2013 14:39 vesicular wrote:
I seem to remember people pissing and moaning about Proleague when they found out the format after it switched to SC2 as well. In fact, you could probably just copy this thread and change "OSL" to "PL" and it would probably be the same thing. People eventually came around.
Like most things, people are just overreacting because they haven't experienced it. OSL is wonderful, tense and dramatic and has been the premier SC tournament for a decade for a reason. We experienced an SC2 OSL last year and it was bad. You can't compare the level of KeSPA players during the first OSL (fresh from dual proleague) and now. The GSL used to use best of 1 in early 2011. It was changed because it is an inferior format. Starcraft 2 in 2011 was a complete joke. Especially the map pool. On June 13 2013 15:23 hzflank wrote:
No idea about what? Ofcourse Gom will do season 3, we already knew that and it is completely irrelevant.
So what do I not have any idea about? Are you trying to tell me that the OSL last year was as good as any of the GSL?
And why should people like me not complain? Gretech has done a great job for the last couple of years and have tweaked their format to make it better for us viewers. OGN is using a format without even considering what the viewers want to see. Best case is the results are the same but we get to watch less games, which makes it lose/lose. Have you considered you are *not* OGN's main target audience? It's not like there was no eSports before SC2 or you came in. So OGN main target audience is BW viewers that switched to SC2 ? And to be sure not to miss this huge core audience, they want to keep a format that involves more luck, in a game that's known to have a bit more luck involved as well than BW ? I completely fail to understand what could possibly justify that. "Conserving uniformity" ? Well, keep your crappy format then. Oh, and the fact that SC2 was a joke in 2011 is completely irrelevant, we talk about production quality. OT: Same as the first SC2 OSL. Will watch a few matches, then wait for the finals, hoping for something interesting to watch.. Either improve, OGN, or please give that back to Gretech. GSL may not have the holy aura of BW behind it. It may not have the huuuuuge audience of OGN by many times. Still, it's been far better watching GSL than OSL so far in SC2. And the massive influx of KeSPA players made it even better. if you don't like it don't watch it. meanwhile let us who like the OSL format enjoy it... I would have been totally fine with it. If it was an OSL, and not a WCS OSL. Yep :/ That's my problem with this exactly. Let OSL be OSL, whatever. It's their choice if they want a completely random Ro16. But this time they're a qualifier for something that's supposed to be the Masters of SC2. And Bo1 should not ever ever ever at any stage be used as a qualifying format for such an event.
Mvp and Hero are smiling right now going " LOL my WCS doesn't have to play BO1 "
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On June 13 2013 16:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:
I'm just gonna state this every time Bo1 format comes up. I could take first place in a Bo1 group by proxy gating 2 times in a row and hoping my opponents build order lose to it. Mindgames man. In a Bo3+ the possibility of that working is infinitely smaller.
Yeah, which is why we see all the players go for proxy gates in Proleague and the U&D matches.
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On June 13 2013 16:49 rasers wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 16:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:
I'm just gonna state this every time Bo1 format comes up. I could take first place in a Bo1 group by proxy gating 2 times in a row and hoping my opponents build order lose to it. Mindgames man. In a Bo3+ the possibility of that working is infinitely smaller. don't u think that would happen alot if it was that freaking easy?
It does happen all the time in PL. Did you see the amount of things proxied this season?
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On June 13 2013 16:50 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 16:47 Ragnarork wrote:On June 13 2013 16:44 gobbledydook wrote:On June 13 2013 16:21 Ragnarork wrote:On June 13 2013 15:59 VManOfMana wrote:On June 13 2013 15:15 hzflank wrote:Why are OGN involved in this thing again? WCS Korea, and the WCS finals, would of been so much better if Gretech had done it all. On June 13 2013 14:39 vesicular wrote:
I seem to remember people pissing and moaning about Proleague when they found out the format after it switched to SC2 as well. In fact, you could probably just copy this thread and change "OSL" to "PL" and it would probably be the same thing. People eventually came around.
Like most things, people are just overreacting because they haven't experienced it. OSL is wonderful, tense and dramatic and has been the premier SC tournament for a decade for a reason. We experienced an SC2 OSL last year and it was bad. You can't compare the level of KeSPA players during the first OSL (fresh from dual proleague) and now. The GSL used to use best of 1 in early 2011. It was changed because it is an inferior format. Starcraft 2 in 2011 was a complete joke. Especially the map pool. On June 13 2013 15:23 hzflank wrote:
No idea about what? Ofcourse Gom will do season 3, we already knew that and it is completely irrelevant.
So what do I not have any idea about? Are you trying to tell me that the OSL last year was as good as any of the GSL?
And why should people like me not complain? Gretech has done a great job for the last couple of years and have tweaked their format to make it better for us viewers. OGN is using a format without even considering what the viewers want to see. Best case is the results are the same but we get to watch less games, which makes it lose/lose. Have you considered you are *not* OGN's main target audience? It's not like there was no eSports before SC2 or you came in. So OGN main target audience is BW viewers that switched to SC2 ? And to be sure not to miss this huge core audience, they want to keep a format that involves more luck, in a game that's known to have a bit more luck involved as well than BW ? I completely fail to understand what could possibly justify that. "Conserving uniformity" ? Well, keep your crappy format then. Oh, and the fact that SC2 was a joke in 2011 is completely irrelevant, we talk about production quality. OT: Same as the first SC2 OSL. Will watch a few matches, then wait for the finals, hoping for something interesting to watch.. Either improve, OGN, or please give that back to Gretech. GSL may not have the holy aura of BW behind it. It may not have the huuuuuge audience of OGN by many times. Still, it's been far better watching GSL than OSL so far in SC2. And the massive influx of KeSPA players made it even better. if you don't like it don't watch it. meanwhile let us who like the OSL format enjoy it... I would have been totally fine with it. If it was an OSL, and not a WCS OSL. Yep :/ That's my problem with this exactly. Let OSL be OSL, whatever. It's their choice if they want a completely random Ro16. But this time they're a qualifier for something that's supposed to be the Masters of SC2. And Bo1 should not ever ever ever at any stage be used as a qualifying format for such an event.
If you actually think that Bo1 makes it completely random, then you're basically just saying that Starcraft 2 is a bad game.
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On June 13 2013 16:52 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 16:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:
I'm just gonna state this every time Bo1 format comes up. I could take first place in a Bo1 group by proxy gating 2 times in a row and hoping my opponents build order lose to it. Mindgames man. In a Bo3+ the possibility of that working is infinitely smaller. Yeah, which is why we see all the players go for proxy gates in Proleague and the U&D matches.
There's proxy gates all the time in PL, lol.
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EPT
