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On July 01 2013 22:11 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2013 12:21 SsDrKosS wrote:On July 01 2013 08:53 TeeTS wrote:On July 01 2013 06:39 EFermi wrote:On July 01 2013 05:38 Greenei wrote:On July 01 2013 05:32 Polygamy wrote:
Why is it that so many Terran think that the Hellbat is only imb in tvt but not the other match ups? I really don't understand? Because it's true? We don't see Terran domination at the highest levels and we also don't see them use Hellbats nearly every game like in TvT. It's just one viable strat, not the only viable strat. Flash and Innovation looking unstoppable isn't domination at the highest level? domination would mean that a lot of terrans finish very high in every tournament. That there are some exceptional players for the race doesn't make a domination. That what we had back in the 2nd half of 2011 can be called domination of terran. I think the problem caused by hellbat drop is not with the overall winrate, but 'domination by hellbat drops esp TvT' I mean in many matchups, everyone does hellbat drops... of course the other ppl try to manage the damage and catch up eventually. How many times did you not see hellbat drops? I. E. Hellbat drops everywhere (because of extreme cost-effectiveness). That is the problem. A Terran mining off two fully saturated bases has no excuse to not have decent turret cover past 15 min. Srsly guise, Srsly
The problem with that is that you have to make a coinflip ...
"Do I build three turrets for each of my bases to *maybe* prevent Medivacs getting into my base OR do I get 12 more Marines or a few more Barracks or a few Hellbats of my own for the resources?"
The thing about turrets is that they are no guarantee against Hellbat drops, because some players just come at you with two Medivacs full of Hellbats and if you arent prepared to deal with them on the ground - due to the resources NOT spent on units - you will lose. You might also be behind because you spent those resources NOT on units and NOT on increasing your production capabilities. The problem remains the same because Hellbats are still too efficient at killing clumped up units like workers because even turrets dont really deter determined drops. People might actually build a Viking to send in first and get shot down to let the Medivacs reach the mineral line for example.
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On July 02 2013 12:25 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2013 22:11 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On July 01 2013 12:21 SsDrKosS wrote:On July 01 2013 08:53 TeeTS wrote:On July 01 2013 06:39 EFermi wrote:On July 01 2013 05:38 Greenei wrote:On July 01 2013 05:32 Polygamy wrote:
Why is it that so many Terran think that the Hellbat is only imb in tvt but not the other match ups? I really don't understand? Because it's true? We don't see Terran domination at the highest levels and we also don't see them use Hellbats nearly every game like in TvT. It's just one viable strat, not the only viable strat. Flash and Innovation looking unstoppable isn't domination at the highest level? domination would mean that a lot of terrans finish very high in every tournament. That there are some exceptional players for the race doesn't make a domination. That what we had back in the 2nd half of 2011 can be called domination of terran. I think the problem caused by hellbat drop is not with the overall winrate, but 'domination by hellbat drops esp TvT' I mean in many matchups, everyone does hellbat drops... of course the other ppl try to manage the damage and catch up eventually. How many times did you not see hellbat drops? I. E. Hellbat drops everywhere (because of extreme cost-effectiveness). That is the problem. A Terran mining off two fully saturated bases has no excuse to not have decent turret cover past 15 min. Srsly guise, Srsly The problem with that is that you have to make a coinflip ... "Do I build three turrets for each of my bases to *maybe* prevent Medivacs getting into my base OR do I get 12 more Marines or a few more Barracks or a few Hellbats of my own for the resources?"The thing about turrets is that they are no guarantee against Hellbat drops, because some players just come at you with two Medivacs full of Hellbats and if you arent prepared to deal with them on the ground - due to the resources NOT spent on units - you will lose. You might also be behind because you spent those resources NOT on units and NOT on increasing your production capabilities. The problem remains the same because Hellbats are still too efficient at killing clumped up units like workers because even turrets dont really deter determined drops. People might actually build a Viking to send in first and get shot down to let the Medivacs reach the mineral line for example.
2 turrets a few marines deter drops VERY well. a dropship will die in 2.5 seconds to 2 turrets and if he afterburners into your mineral line then you run away all of your workers, have maybe a bunker with marines / marauder in it or have a few units in place and shut it down. Easy. If there are 2 drop ships some units can take care of it with the turret help easy.
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On July 02 2013 12:25 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2013 22:11 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On July 01 2013 12:21 SsDrKosS wrote:On July 01 2013 08:53 TeeTS wrote:On July 01 2013 06:39 EFermi wrote:On July 01 2013 05:38 Greenei wrote:On July 01 2013 05:32 Polygamy wrote:
Why is it that so many Terran think that the Hellbat is only imb in tvt but not the other match ups? I really don't understand? Because it's true? We don't see Terran domination at the highest levels and we also don't see them use Hellbats nearly every game like in TvT. It's just one viable strat, not the only viable strat. Flash and Innovation looking unstoppable isn't domination at the highest level? domination would mean that a lot of terrans finish very high in every tournament. That there are some exceptional players for the race doesn't make a domination. That what we had back in the 2nd half of 2011 can be called domination of terran. I think the problem caused by hellbat drop is not with the overall winrate, but 'domination by hellbat drops esp TvT' I mean in many matchups, everyone does hellbat drops... of course the other ppl try to manage the damage and catch up eventually. How many times did you not see hellbat drops? I. E. Hellbat drops everywhere (because of extreme cost-effectiveness). That is the problem. A Terran mining off two fully saturated bases has no excuse to not have decent turret cover past 15 min. Srsly guise, Srsly The problem with that is that you have to make a coinflip ... "Do I build three turrets for each of my bases to *maybe* prevent Medivacs getting into my base OR do I get 12 more Marines or a few more Barracks or a few Hellbats of my own for the resources?"The thing about turrets is that they are no guarantee against Hellbat drops, because some players just come at you with two Medivacs full of Hellbats and if you arent prepared to deal with them on the ground - due to the resources NOT spent on units - you will lose. You might also be behind because you spent those resources NOT on units and NOT on increasing your production capabilities. The problem remains the same because Hellbats are still too efficient at killing clumped up units like workers because even turrets dont really deter determined drops. People might actually build a Viking to send in first and get shot down to let the Medivacs reach the mineral line for example.
Coin flip? You are making excuses for yourself.
Aside from tech switches/bluff, there is no such thing as impossible, Terran have scouting with scan AT NO RISK TO UNITS!
Of course TvT is a coin flip when you leave ENTIRE BASES' AIRSPACE OPEN!
You are supposed to study your maps and know which side of a spawning point can be most effectively protected with Turret cover, and STRATEGICALLY place your turrets to maximise airspace protection to cost ratio not whine whine whine.
It's like complaining REAVERS/Spider mine drops/etc ARE TOO GOOD!!
David Kim needs to come out into the open when the hellbat drop question comes up, wear shades and say, "Deal with it".
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i prefer a diow mine + turret to insta kill a drop
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On July 02 2013 12:46 Picklebread wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 12:25 Rabiator wrote:On July 01 2013 22:11 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On July 01 2013 12:21 SsDrKosS wrote:On July 01 2013 08:53 TeeTS wrote:On July 01 2013 06:39 EFermi wrote:On July 01 2013 05:38 Greenei wrote:On July 01 2013 05:32 Polygamy wrote:
Why is it that so many Terran think that the Hellbat is only imb in tvt but not the other match ups? I really don't understand? Because it's true? We don't see Terran domination at the highest levels and we also don't see them use Hellbats nearly every game like in TvT. It's just one viable strat, not the only viable strat. Flash and Innovation looking unstoppable isn't domination at the highest level? domination would mean that a lot of terrans finish very high in every tournament. That there are some exceptional players for the race doesn't make a domination. That what we had back in the 2nd half of 2011 can be called domination of terran. I think the problem caused by hellbat drop is not with the overall winrate, but 'domination by hellbat drops esp TvT' I mean in many matchups, everyone does hellbat drops... of course the other ppl try to manage the damage and catch up eventually. How many times did you not see hellbat drops? I. E. Hellbat drops everywhere (because of extreme cost-effectiveness). That is the problem. A Terran mining off two fully saturated bases has no excuse to not have decent turret cover past 15 min. Srsly guise, Srsly The problem with that is that you have to make a coinflip ... "Do I build three turrets for each of my bases to *maybe* prevent Medivacs getting into my base OR do I get 12 more Marines or a few more Barracks or a few Hellbats of my own for the resources?"The thing about turrets is that they are no guarantee against Hellbat drops, because some players just come at you with two Medivacs full of Hellbats and if you arent prepared to deal with them on the ground - due to the resources NOT spent on units - you will lose. You might also be behind because you spent those resources NOT on units and NOT on increasing your production capabilities. The problem remains the same because Hellbats are still too efficient at killing clumped up units like workers because even turrets dont really deter determined drops. People might actually build a Viking to send in first and get shot down to let the Medivacs reach the mineral line for example. 2 turrets a few marines deter drops VERY well. a dropship will die in 2.5 seconds to 2 turrets and if he afterburners into your mineral line then you run away all of your workers, have maybe a bunker with marines / marauder in it or have a few units in place and shut it down. Easy. If there are 2 drop ships some units can take care of it with the turret help easy.
As I said above ... there are ways to "counter" turrets by giving them an alternative target. You are also ignoring the fact that you wont have 2 turrets in range because the bases are pretty huge on some maps.
The way I would do it is to use the leading Medivac to boost right on top of the Turret and then drop the Hellbats there. If the Medivac dies doesnt matter, the turret will die too. At the same time the second Mefivac can run past and unload at the workers (out of turret range). Sure that wont work everywhere, but the super efficiency of the Hellbat still requires you to pull your workers quickly or lose a whole bunch of them. Hellbats are also good enough at killing turrets and then the second wave of double drop comes before you have rebuilt them.
On July 02 2013 13:36 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 12:25 Rabiator wrote:On July 01 2013 22:11 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On July 01 2013 12:21 SsDrKosS wrote:On July 01 2013 08:53 TeeTS wrote:On July 01 2013 06:39 EFermi wrote:On July 01 2013 05:38 Greenei wrote:On July 01 2013 05:32 Polygamy wrote:
Why is it that so many Terran think that the Hellbat is only imb in tvt but not the other match ups? I really don't understand? Because it's true? We don't see Terran domination at the highest levels and we also don't see them use Hellbats nearly every game like in TvT. It's just one viable strat, not the only viable strat. Flash and Innovation looking unstoppable isn't domination at the highest level? domination would mean that a lot of terrans finish very high in every tournament. That there are some exceptional players for the race doesn't make a domination. That what we had back in the 2nd half of 2011 can be called domination of terran. I think the problem caused by hellbat drop is not with the overall winrate, but 'domination by hellbat drops esp TvT' I mean in many matchups, everyone does hellbat drops... of course the other ppl try to manage the damage and catch up eventually. How many times did you not see hellbat drops? I. E. Hellbat drops everywhere (because of extreme cost-effectiveness). That is the problem. A Terran mining off two fully saturated bases has no excuse to not have decent turret cover past 15 min. Srsly guise, Srsly The problem with that is that you have to make a coinflip ... "Do I build three turrets for each of my bases to *maybe* prevent Medivacs getting into my base OR do I get 12 more Marines or a few more Barracks or a few Hellbats of my own for the resources?"The thing about turrets is that they are no guarantee against Hellbat drops, because some players just come at you with two Medivacs full of Hellbats and if you arent prepared to deal with them on the ground - due to the resources NOT spent on units - you will lose. You might also be behind because you spent those resources NOT on units and NOT on increasing your production capabilities. The problem remains the same because Hellbats are still too efficient at killing clumped up units like workers because even turrets dont really deter determined drops. People might actually build a Viking to send in first and get shot down to let the Medivacs reach the mineral line for example. Coin flip? You are making excuses for yourself. Aside from tech switches/bluff, there is no such thing as impossible, Terran have scouting with scan AT NO RISK TO UNITS! Of course TvT is a coin flip when you leave ENTIRE BASES' AIRSPACE OPEN! You are supposed to study your maps and know which side of a spawning point can be most effectively protected with Turret cover, and STRATEGICALLY place your turrets to maximise airspace protection to cost ratio not whine whine whine. It's like complaining REAVERS/Spider mine drops/etc ARE TOO GOOD!! David Kim needs to come out into the open when the hellbat drop question comes up, wear shades and say, "Deal with it".
The problem with a mirror matchup is that any "wasted" resource will put you behind. If the opponent knows you have built turrets he will know you have less army and come in at the front with a bigger army than you have. That is a coinflip.
Additionally you seem to be under the delusion that there is endless energy on your Orbitals and using a scan to look at one spot of the opponents base - which doesnt really guarantee you to reveal his game plan ... you only get a chance of hitting the right spot - will put you behind at the critical time when both sides are building up their production and army. In addition you also want to build lots of turrets ... so what is your army made up of then? Your opponent will have the bigger army and/or bigger production because of this and it is only when he suicides a lot of stuff into your turrets that you can "get even", but even that might not be possible. Scans LATER ON in TvT are a necessary and used thing, but not in the growth phase of the game.
Blizzard simply made Hellbats too good at killing clumped up units AND they negated the "weakness" of the unit by introducing the Medivac speed boost.
Reavers are a gamble and Spider Mines are something you need to get used to clearing.
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hellbat drops are the best stategy at GM + in TvT, you almost have to get lucky to beat hellbat drops with anything thats not hellbat drops. They're super good at killing armies and hurassing. Way too good imo.
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I play terran and even i want hellbats to get nerfed. i think less dmg
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I think it is a good change to patch the Hellbat require blue flame. It is quite reasonable and can definitely tone down the whole Hellbat problem. The change itself make sense as well.
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On July 02 2013 07:23 CikaZombi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 05:58 Gaizokubanou wrote:On July 02 2013 03:50 Mauzel wrote:On July 02 2013 03:22 Jazzman88 wrote:On July 02 2013 03:14 QQKachoo wrote:
Hellbat drops are making meta pretty stale atm. I mean it isn't near as stale as it was when it was zerg turtling to blord infestor but it is pretty boring to go "well the terran is going to hellbat drop". The opening is too common now. Also I find it really dumb when you see a Terran behind and they just keep hellbat dropping and then one drop is super successful and the terran is back in the game. Let's be fair, however - it's also true that a Zerg or Protoss player can be behind and just keep attempting Baneling/Muta plays (burrowed Baneling mines, Mutalisk run-bys into expansion) or Templar storms (zoning with Psionic Storm), and all it takes is one good hit from that to put them right back in it (see every comeback PvT game ever, Symbol v Bomber for Baneling mines, etc.). Any time you have a high-damage unit in a good place, there's a potential for a face-wrecking amount of disruption to your opponent that can give you an edge - that's why Colossi are great defensive AND offensive tools in PvT, that's why Storm is super hard to play against, and that's why the new HotS Mutalisks are incredibly annoying to try and move out against. Bad comparisons. 1) Baneling mines may have that instant burst but they don't have the mobility / durability of hellbats. Furthermore, Terrans usually scan typical baneling mine spots even if they aren't looking for baneling mines because Terrans like to scan ahead of their army to find zerg army => they will usually find baneling mines. 2) "Mutalisk runbys" are incredibly risky against Terran (mines) and are easily countered vs Protoss who go phoenix. 3) Mutalisks, baneling mines, and high templar all require a lot of tech and come very late in the game. Hellbats drops can be a very safe opening build. 4) Baneling mines and high templar typically only deal damage to the army. Losing half your army in the mid game is not as devastating as losing 10 workers in the early game. I think we've probably gotten a bit caught up in bandwagon effects with Hellbats. Everyone and their mother started to get Hellbat dropped, and it wasn't a good feeling to lose to it, so now there's no verbal defense to any proposition that doesn't involved heavily nerfing them. For the record, I think there could be tweaks to them, but I don't believe they're anywhere near as overpowered as the vast majority of casual players seem to think they are. Okay but pro terran players believe they are imbalanced. About 2), 3) and 4)... 2) It's not that risky vs terran. You can visually see the burrowed mine. If mines didn't leave visual cues then it would be incredibly risky but right now if you have good vision, you can keep your mutalisk harass force alive. 3) Mutalisks are mid game unit, they typically come in mid game. Same for templar tech outside of TvP because potential mine drop forces protoss to either go robo or stargate for detection, which delays templar tech. 4) Can you show us a replay where the defending player made resonable precautions vs hellbat drop and still lost 10 workers in the early game? It delays mining and can nab 2 ~ 4 workers but 10 workers killed in the early game sounds like the defender didn't really bother defending. Edit: But to be fair the original comparison to baneling mines and storm is indeed bit off because whatever the reasons are, those two haven't seen much use in killing the economy. Maybe with warp prism speed buff, storm drop with zealot warp in harass may become a thing now but they aren't part of the meta yet so the comparison is indeed bit off. You seem to think mines are easily spotted and that the player will focus only on that 100% of the time while moving their mutalisk army. You also do not calculate lost mining time which always happens. Even with all precautions you still need to pull your workers every time early in the game, and if the opponent is good he can still do damage to you then and/or just evacuate and try later. Not saying anything to either side but you need to calculate everything into your argument to make it objective.
I explicitly stated mining time will be lost when defending against hellbat drop so I'm not sure how much clearer I have to state that for you to claim that I spoke otherwise. There, I underlined where I said it so you won't miss it.
And mines are easily spotted. Obviously it's harder to spot a mine than say, non cloaked/burrowed units but then again that's part of the whole burrowing mechanics.
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On July 02 2013 14:08 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 12:46 Picklebread wrote:On July 02 2013 12:25 Rabiator wrote:On July 01 2013 22:11 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On July 01 2013 12:21 SsDrKosS wrote:On July 01 2013 08:53 TeeTS wrote:On July 01 2013 06:39 EFermi wrote:On July 01 2013 05:38 Greenei wrote:On July 01 2013 05:32 Polygamy wrote:
Why is it that so many Terran think that the Hellbat is only imb in tvt but not the other match ups? I really don't understand? Because it's true? We don't see Terran domination at the highest levels and we also don't see them use Hellbats nearly every game like in TvT. It's just one viable strat, not the only viable strat. Flash and Innovation looking unstoppable isn't domination at the highest level? domination would mean that a lot of terrans finish very high in every tournament. That there are some exceptional players for the race doesn't make a domination. That what we had back in the 2nd half of 2011 can be called domination of terran. I think the problem caused by hellbat drop is not with the overall winrate, but 'domination by hellbat drops esp TvT' I mean in many matchups, everyone does hellbat drops... of course the other ppl try to manage the damage and catch up eventually. How many times did you not see hellbat drops? I. E. Hellbat drops everywhere (because of extreme cost-effectiveness). That is the problem. A Terran mining off two fully saturated bases has no excuse to not have decent turret cover past 15 min. Srsly guise, Srsly The problem with that is that you have to make a coinflip ... "Do I build three turrets for each of my bases to *maybe* prevent Medivacs getting into my base OR do I get 12 more Marines or a few more Barracks or a few Hellbats of my own for the resources?"The thing about turrets is that they are no guarantee against Hellbat drops, because some players just come at you with two Medivacs full of Hellbats and if you arent prepared to deal with them on the ground - due to the resources NOT spent on units - you will lose. You might also be behind because you spent those resources NOT on units and NOT on increasing your production capabilities. The problem remains the same because Hellbats are still too efficient at killing clumped up units like workers because even turrets dont really deter determined drops. People might actually build a Viking to send in first and get shot down to let the Medivacs reach the mineral line for example. 2 turrets a few marines deter drops VERY well. a dropship will die in 2.5 seconds to 2 turrets and if he afterburners into your mineral line then you run away all of your workers, have maybe a bunker with marines / marauder in it or have a few units in place and shut it down. Easy. If there are 2 drop ships some units can take care of it with the turret help easy. As I said above ... there are ways to "counter" turrets by giving them an alternative target. You are also ignoring the fact that you wont have 2 turrets in range because the bases are pretty huge on some maps. The way I would do it is to use the leading Medivac to boost right on top of the Turret and then drop the Hellbats there. If the Medivac dies doesnt matter, the turret will die too. At the same time the second Mefivac can run past and unload at the workers (out of turret range). Sure that wont work everywhere, but the super efficiency of the Hellbat still requires you to pull your workers quickly or lose a whole bunch of them. Hellbats are also good enough at killing turrets and then the second wave of double drop comes before you have rebuilt them. Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 13:36 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On July 02 2013 12:25 Rabiator wrote:On July 01 2013 22:11 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On July 01 2013 12:21 SsDrKosS wrote:On July 01 2013 08:53 TeeTS wrote:On July 01 2013 06:39 EFermi wrote:On July 01 2013 05:38 Greenei wrote:On July 01 2013 05:32 Polygamy wrote:
Why is it that so many Terran think that the Hellbat is only imb in tvt but not the other match ups? I really don't understand? Because it's true? We don't see Terran domination at the highest levels and we also don't see them use Hellbats nearly every game like in TvT. It's just one viable strat, not the only viable strat. Flash and Innovation looking unstoppable isn't domination at the highest level? domination would mean that a lot of terrans finish very high in every tournament. That there are some exceptional players for the race doesn't make a domination. That what we had back in the 2nd half of 2011 can be called domination of terran. I think the problem caused by hellbat drop is not with the overall winrate, but 'domination by hellbat drops esp TvT' I mean in many matchups, everyone does hellbat drops... of course the other ppl try to manage the damage and catch up eventually. How many times did you not see hellbat drops? I. E. Hellbat drops everywhere (because of extreme cost-effectiveness). That is the problem. A Terran mining off two fully saturated bases has no excuse to not have decent turret cover past 15 min. Srsly guise, Srsly The problem with that is that you have to make a coinflip ... "Do I build three turrets for each of my bases to *maybe* prevent Medivacs getting into my base OR do I get 12 more Marines or a few more Barracks or a few Hellbats of my own for the resources?"The thing about turrets is that they are no guarantee against Hellbat drops, because some players just come at you with two Medivacs full of Hellbats and if you arent prepared to deal with them on the ground - due to the resources NOT spent on units - you will lose. You might also be behind because you spent those resources NOT on units and NOT on increasing your production capabilities. The problem remains the same because Hellbats are still too efficient at killing clumped up units like workers because even turrets dont really deter determined drops. People might actually build a Viking to send in first and get shot down to let the Medivacs reach the mineral line for example. Coin flip? You are making excuses for yourself. Aside from tech switches/bluff, there is no such thing as impossible, Terran have scouting with scan AT NO RISK TO UNITS! Of course TvT is a coin flip when you leave ENTIRE BASES' AIRSPACE OPEN! You are supposed to study your maps and know which side of a spawning point can be most effectively protected with Turret cover, and STRATEGICALLY place your turrets to maximise airspace protection to cost ratio not whine whine whine. It's like complaining REAVERS/Spider mine drops/etc ARE TOO GOOD!! David Kim needs to come out into the open when the hellbat drop question comes up, wear shades and say, "Deal with it". The problem with a mirror matchup is that any "wasted" resource will put you behind. If the opponent knows you have built turrets he will know you have less army and come in at the front with a bigger army than you have. That is a coinflip. Additionally you seem to be under the delusion that there is endless energy on your Orbitals and using a scan to look at one spot of the opponents base - which doesnt really guarantee you to reveal his game plan ... you only get a chance of hitting the right spot - will put you behind at the critical time when both sides are building up their production and army. In addition you also want to build lots of turrets ... so what is your army made up of then? Your opponent will have the bigger army and/or bigger production because of this and it is only when he suicides a lot of stuff into your turrets that you can "get even", but even that might not be possible. Scans LATER ON in TvT are a necessary and used thing, but not in the growth phase of the game. Blizzard simply made Hellbats too good at killing clumped up units AND they negated the "weakness" of the unit by introducing the Medivac speed boost. Reavers are a gamble and Spider Mines are something you need to get used to clearing.
So much QQ.
You keep pulling fictional scenarios that make TWO hellbats in a medivac sound like it's the most broken sh*t since K.amulet prism HT warp ins. Keep it real, Rab, keep it real.
Two turrets and a Viking (or widow mine) costs less than a medivac and two hellbats and the armory at the 8 min mark.
Placing a turret in your mineral line is sub-optimal, as I've said before, you want the turret to MAXIMISE its firing window, that means the two inital turrets ideally do not even let the medivac drop past the ledge, thus cutting off the back section of the base. Add a w.mine between the two turrets and you've created a death trap. Turrets are range 12 vision, assuming you are well prepared for the drop (with saved camera positions), there is no reason your army would not be enroute to intercept the drop even he boosted past the turret, good splits will ensure minimal damage while focusing on the damaged medivac.
The dropping player either has to waste time skirting the edge of the bases wasting precious APM finding a gap in the back side of the base, drop second base mineral line closest to your army or takes the bait and flies into the "gap" between the turrets to slam into the WMine.
I am quite sure this is flying past your head.
Face it strategy in a strategy game is not your strong point.
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Are people here arguing hellbat isn't insanely overpowered ?
You guys should be lawyers 
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On July 02 2013 15:05 MrSourGit wrote:Are people here arguing hellbat isn't insanely overpowered ? You guys should be lawyers
Bombs drops by stealth jets on infantry position is OP ban bombs.
Or you could fund an Air Force.
Learn to play the new TvT meta.
Air superiority in your airspace is important, don't leave your base without it.
Or play WoL.
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Hellbats OP, some people in this thread are so jokes, it's really not that hard to deal with especially if you can scout.
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On July 02 2013 15:27 GaNgStaRR.ElV wrote:
Hellbats OP, some people in this thread are so jokes, it's really not that hard to deal with especially if you can scout.
You are right, David could lower the cost of turrets until Terran gets a clue.
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Buffing turrets are a bad idea because they will effect the other match ups. The reason spore crawler buff was ok ZvZ is because only zerg have biological fliers. Making hellbats more expensive doesn't seem fair. So IMO require upgrade in armory. It will make them a bit later, and a bit more of an investment.
As part of the mech composition it fits that they would be later, as full on mech is a later comp than bio. Drops wouldn't be as fast and people would be able to prepare for defense easier. After all they will still end up costing the same during production in mid/late game.
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On July 02 2013 15:37 FoxShine wrote:
Buffing turrets are a bad idea because they will effect the other match ups. The reason spore crawler buff was ok ZvZ is because only zerg have biological fliers.
Why? Just because it does not seems necessary balance-wise vP/vZ doesn´t automatically mean it would give T an unfair advantage in those matchups.
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On July 02 2013 16:40 Daswollvieh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 15:37 FoxShine wrote:
Buffing turrets are a bad idea because they will effect the other match ups. The reason spore crawler buff was ok ZvZ is because only zerg have biological fliers. Why? Just because it does not seems necessary balance-wise vP/vZ doesn´t automatically mean it would give T an unfair advantage in those matchups.
It does affect the current meta. In TvZ, muta's are a big thing, so getting to build more turrets and earlier because they are cheaper would give T a slight edge. In TvP, turrets help against Prism harass, DTs, oracle plays, phoenix, voidray all-ins.
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On July 02 2013 16:56 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 16:40 Daswollvieh wrote:On July 02 2013 15:37 FoxShine wrote:
Buffing turrets are a bad idea because they will effect the other match ups. The reason spore crawler buff was ok ZvZ is because only zerg have biological fliers. Why? Just because it does not seems necessary balance-wise vP/vZ doesn´t automatically mean it would give T an unfair advantage in those matchups. It does affect the current meta. In TvZ, muta's are a big thing, so getting to build more turrets and earlier because they are cheaper would give T a slight edge. In TvP, turrets help against Prism harass, DTs, oracle plays, phoenix, voidray all-ins.
Well, they are good AA. But would buffing them a little really swing balance in vP/vZ? Oracles are already shut down by one turret and it´s more a question of an ebay being built in time, not the turret´s cost. Warp prisms don´t depend on mineral line access, so they can hardly be shut out by turrets, anyway. Detection again is not a matter of cheaper mass turrets. I don´t remember Phoenix playing a huge role in harassment vs terran and I don´t have a problem with mobile anti-ground like Voids losing against immobile anti-air like turrets. If turrets were only buffed vs light (against light med vacs) that wouldn´t be an issue anyway.
In TvZ little muta flocks are already dealt with by turrets, while huge flocks would easily overcome buffed turrets as well.
I´m not saying it would not affect TvZ/TvP at all, but I think it would impact them rather insignificantly, while contributing a lot to TvT.
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I think a good idea will have to involve an upgrade required by a tech lab (This will slow down a double production of a reactor, since you'll have to get tech lab first).
Any other changes on the unit itself, imo... will ruin the unit.
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EPT
