On June 30 2013 22:10 Tobblish wrote: Would love to see a change that Hellbat can't go into the Medivac, that would solves every problem and concern there is but game design trumps balance it seems.
About the tank, yeah it's awful compared to the WM but nerfing the WM isn't a option, buff the tank not with damage but make so they siege/unsiege faster. Reason why the Terran tank play is considered slow and boring is because you are too afraid of Zerg when you move onto creep, only takes one second for the Zerg to get the window it needs.
Nerfs are really bad honestly, would be a lot more fun if Blizzard decided to buff another unit to counter better. (they did this with sporecrawler which I found to be a great change)
My complaint about making it so it can't go in a medivac, is that would be really silly. Everything a terran has go go into a medivac. So how do you explain that. I would say take a different approach with them maybe slow down the speed that they come at you
On June 30 2013 18:34 SSVnormandy wrote: I'm bio terran and i see the dilemna about hellbat.
In PvT the fact that you can add hellbats easily from factory reactor to deal with the most unskilled but efficient zealot archon templar is a very good thing because it gives us terran a way to deal with it efficiently
In TvT hellbat is a big problem because the balance between bio-biotank-mech that existed in wol is completely obliterated because now mech have the best harass ability / best drop on tanks ability / best positional force so it turns TvT into mech player will win unless he made major mistakes.
Blizzard is in a very bad position because if they nerf hellbat would dammage bio hellbat play in TvP and make it totally unused as a 'composition' unit because nobody plays mech either on TvP or TvZ
The only nerf i can think of is a decrease of dmg that will be fixed by the blue flame research.
They will probably do nothing as long as the top tournament equilibrium is balanced. No matter TvT is shit right now for blizzard one thing count --> there will be no matter what a Terran player advancing so don't need to balance mirrror.
True, but nobody has a way to deal with hellbats efficiently, especially if they are supported by Marauders.
On June 30 2013 22:10 Tobblish wrote: Would love to see a change that Hellbat can't go into the Medivac, that would solves every problem and concern there is but game design trumps balance it seems.
About the tank, yeah it's awful compared to the WM but nerfing the WM isn't a option, buff the tank not with damage but make so they siege/unsiege faster. Reason why the Terran tank play is considered slow and boring is because you are too afraid of Zerg when you move onto creep, only takes one second for the Zerg to get the window it needs.
Nerfs are really bad honestly, would be a lot more fun if Blizzard decided to buff another unit to counter better. (they did this with sporecrawler which I found to be a great change)
My complaint about making it so it can't go in a medivac, is that would be really silly. Everything a terran has go go into a medivac. So how do you explain that. I would say take a different approach with them maybe slow down the speed that they come at you
It also completely breaks game logic. Even banelings go into overlords. That would be the only unit that doesn't.
Make it non-biological so it cannot be healed would go such a long way. Plus that only makes goddamn sense. Its a walking tank thing that transforms from a hellion. How can it be healed?
On July 01 2013 00:56 _SpiRaL_ wrote: Make it non-biological so it cannot be healed would go such a long way. Plus that only makes goddamn sense. Its a walking tank thing that transforms from a hellion. How can it be healed?
i had that complaint about scvs as soon as the game came out
On July 01 2013 00:24 jj33 wrote: I still can't believe they think mines are 100% fine.
They have 90 hp same as a hydralisk and their explosion radius is too large. They are too much of an x factor.
Also, the fact that corruptors are supposed to be anti air and only anti air and they are zergs worst unit, quite possibly the worst unit in the game and blizz won't do anything.
They are SUPPOSED TO BEAT air and they get absolutely manhandled by void rays for example.
I don't think you can compare zerg units 1v1 vs other races (or even in terms of resource). Because zerg macro (expansion, larvae, etc) is just so much more explosive compare to the other 2 races.
If bio meaning marines and marauders stay this strong we will never have mech as a composition or even decent T3 for Terran. Anything that can be combined with marines would kill. There was never any reason you would not play bio because its fast, cost efficient and has the most dps in the game. Every unit has almost the exact range, upgrades and move at the same speed so its really intuitive to control. Only weakness is to AOE which can be circumvented by good control, avoiding fights or adding up support units such as ghosts and vikings. You can't have death dealing tanks that can be combined with marines it would simply be too strong.
Now if we had those tanks, we could see Terrans harrasing with dedicated and cheap units while building up their army and leap-frogging across the map, while Protoss tries to take more bases and throws some harass of their own. Now, we see Protoss mostly sitting on their asses for 15minutes (save some dt or prism drops that are used to delay the timing from Terran so Protoss can get their AOE units) and that is all. I wish bio can remain strong for a good period of time but then slowly transition to more expensive and stronger units late game like every other race has in this or any other RTS, but alas what was a mistake at the beggining soon became a philosophy that bio is fun, mobile and unique and that it should never be changed. Too much time has passed now to change the entire game.
Hellbats are no way better than vultures with mines in Sc:BW. Just because something is strong and cost-efficient in most situations doesn't make it imbalance. If Terrans as a whole were dominating with this units, then sure the nerf would be needed, but that's not the case. If Hellbat drops were impossible to deal with, and that strong, Terrans as a whole would be dominating HoTS, we would have TvT finals in half of the tournaments, like during the Zerg era in WOL, that's simply not the case. No more lies, no more hypocrisy, no more sophisms, no stupid nerfs, thanks.
On July 01 2013 01:26 SiroKO wrote: Hellbats are no way better than vultures with mines in Sc:BW. Just because something is strong and cost-efficient in most situations doesn't make it imbalance. If Terrans as a whole were dominating with this units, then sure the nerf would be needed, but that's not the case. If Hellbat drops were impossible to deal with, and that strong, Terrans as a whole would be dominating HoTS, we would have TvT finals in half of the tournaments, like during the Zerg era in WOL, that's simply not the case. No more lies, no more hypocrisy, no more sophisms, no stupid nerfs, thanks.
Have you noticed that whenever a Terran is down 0-1 in a set after trying to compete with a Zerg in a standard game, he pulls out the hellbat drops? The most recent example IRC is Sound in MLG. He also did this against Golden @ Redull when down 0-1. Now this reaction is by no means unique to him, lol. Hellbat drops have fast approached 1-1-1 status. Terran players know they are stupid - they know fans hate to watch them, but when they are down a game they WILL use them.
I mean either that, or they avoid using them too much so that they won't get nerfed (lol).
On July 01 2013 01:26 SiroKO wrote: Hellbats are no way better than vultures with mines in Sc:BW. Just because something is strong and cost-efficient in most situations doesn't make it imbalance. If Terrans as a whole were dominating with this units, then sure the nerf would be needed, but that's not the case. If Hellbat drops were impossible to deal with, and that strong, Terrans as a whole would be dominating HoTS, we would have TvT finals in half of the tournaments, like during the Zerg era in WOL, that's simply not the case. No more lies, no more hypocrisy, no more sophisms, no stupid nerfs, thanks.
Have you noticed that whenever a Terran is down 0-1 in a set after trying to compete with a Zerg in a standard game, he pulls out the hellbat drops?
Have you noticed that whenever a Zerg is down 0-X in a set after trying to compete with a Terran in a standard game, he pulls out the roach/bane busts?
On July 01 2013 01:26 SiroKO wrote: Hellbats are no way better than vultures with mines in Sc:BW. Just because something is strong and cost-efficient in most situations doesn't make it imbalance. If Terrans as a whole were dominating with this units, then sure the nerf would be needed, but that's not the case. If Hellbat drops were impossible to deal with, and that strong, Terrans as a whole would be dominating HoTS, we would have TvT finals in half of the tournaments, like during the Zerg era in WOL, that's simply not the case. No more lies, no more hypocrisy, no more sophisms, no stupid nerfs, thanks.
Have you noticed that whenever a Terran is down 0-1 in a set after trying to compete with a Zerg in a standard game, he pulls out the hellbat drops?
Have you noticed that whenever a Zerg is down 0-X in a set after trying to compete with a Terran in a standard game, he pulls out the roach/bane busts?
Well, that works too. Not that I disagree with it, just cause and effect are a bit different.
And also success rates. And the whole entertainment factor.
On July 01 2013 01:26 SiroKO wrote: Hellbats are no way better than vultures with mines in Sc:BW. Just because something is strong and cost-efficient in most situations doesn't make it imbalance. If Terrans as a whole were dominating with this units, then sure the nerf would be needed, but that's not the case. If Hellbat drops were impossible to deal with, and that strong, Terrans as a whole would be dominating HoTS, we would have TvT finals in half of the tournaments, like during the Zerg era in WOL, that's simply not the case. No more lies, no more hypocrisy, no more sophisms, no stupid nerfs, thanks.
Have you noticed that whenever a Terran is down 0-1 in a set after trying to compete with a Zerg in a standard game, he pulls out the hellbat drops?
Have you noticed that whenever a Zerg is down 0-X in a set after trying to compete with a Terran in a standard game, he pulls out the roach/bane busts?
Well, that works too. Not that I disagree with it, just cause and effect are a bit different.
And also success rates. And the whole entertainment factor.
On July 01 2013 01:26 SiroKO wrote: Hellbats are no way better than vultures with mines in Sc:BW. Just because something is strong and cost-efficient in most situations doesn't make it imbalance. If Terrans as a whole were dominating with this units, then sure the nerf would be needed, but that's not the case. If Hellbat drops were impossible to deal with, and that strong, Terrans as a whole would be dominating HoTS, we would have TvT finals in half of the tournaments, like during the Zerg era in WOL, that's simply not the case. No more lies, no more hypocrisy, no more sophisms, no stupid nerfs, thanks.
Have you noticed that whenever a Terran is down 0-1 in a set after trying to compete with a Zerg in a standard game, he pulls out the hellbat drops?
Have you noticed that whenever a Zerg is down 0-X in a set after trying to compete with a Terran in a standard game, he pulls out the roach/bane busts?
Well, that works too. Not that I disagree with it, just cause and effect are a bit different.
And also success rates. And the whole entertainment factor.
And you being shot in the leg.
Legs of steel, baby. A lot of Zergs roach bane allin as a response to 3CC because it is very, very difficult to compete in a macro game if Terran opens that way. Hellbat drop isn't a response to anything...it's just an abuse of a highly damaging unit composition with a large success rate even if scouted. Not to mention that it is in no means all-in, - and that it does considerable damage even if it is scouted in the form of pulling all your drones, and overcommitting to defense early in the game. And that T can do this off the back of a 3rd CC (if he wants to be safe he can do it with 2 and still be ahead).
On July 01 2013 01:26 SiroKO wrote: Hellbats are no way better than vultures with mines in Sc:BW. Just because something is strong and cost-efficient in most situations doesn't make it imbalance. If Terrans as a whole were dominating with this units, then sure the nerf would be needed, but that's not the case. If Hellbat drops were impossible to deal with, and that strong, Terrans as a whole would be dominating HoTS, we would have TvT finals in half of the tournaments, like during the Zerg era in WOL, that's simply not the case. No more lies, no more hypocrisy, no more sophisms, no stupid nerfs, thanks.
Have you noticed that whenever a Terran is down 0-1 in a set after trying to compete with a Zerg in a standard game, he pulls out the hellbat drops? The most recent example IRC is Sound in MLG. He also did this against Golden @ Redull when down 0-1. Now this reaction is by no means unique to him, lol. Hellbat drops have fast approached 1-1-1 status. Terran players know they are stupid - they know fans hate to watch them, but when they are down a game they WILL use them.
I mean either that, or they avoid using them too much so that they won't get nerfed (lol).
Ye sure, Terrans are purposefully not over-using hellbats for fear of being nerfed. Do you realize how baseless your Terran conspiracy is?
On July 01 2013 01:26 SiroKO wrote: Hellbats are no way better than vultures with mines in Sc:BW. Just because something is strong and cost-efficient in most situations doesn't make it imbalance. If Terrans as a whole were dominating with this units, then sure the nerf would be needed, but that's not the case. If Hellbat drops were impossible to deal with, and that strong, Terrans as a whole would be dominating HoTS, we would have TvT finals in half of the tournaments, like during the Zerg era in WOL, that's simply not the case. No more lies, no more hypocrisy, no more sophisms, no stupid nerfs, thanks.
Have you noticed that whenever a Terran is down 0-1 in a set after trying to compete with a Zerg in a standard game, he pulls out the hellbat drops? The most recent example IRC is Sound in MLG. He also did this against Golden @ Redull when down 0-1. Now this reaction is by no means unique to him, lol. Hellbat drops have fast approached 1-1-1 status. Terran players know they are stupid - they know fans hate to watch them, but when they are down a game they WILL use them.
I mean either that, or they avoid using them too much so that they won't get nerfed (lol).
Ye sure, Terrans are purposefully not over-using hellbats for fear of being nerfed. Do you realize how baseless your Terran conspiracy is?
No? I just threw it out there. I didn't say it was the only opinion one has to have. We all need a little conspiracy once in awhile to keep us going, though.
I would love to see hellbats be made non bio but can still be loaded into medivacs. Raise their movement speed a tiny bit, reduce base damage/utilize blue flame as a mid/late game upgrade for the unit.
This would make hellbats slightly more than just tank fodder in mech TvT, make hellbats drops more micro oriented, and keep their identity as the game goes on.
Disallowing them the ability to load up would make the unit useless IMO, and would not really be productive.
well i don't have that much of a problem with hellbats in general, or drops in the mineral line, but i think it's fucking absurd when terrans boost them to drop on your army. seems really abusive
EPT
