On June 11 2013 16:33 VArsovskiSC wrote: 1 - make Medivac cost 125/125
So which boosts do you propose to compensate for such a nerf to terran?
If you read my post you'll see that I wrote:
ALL THE BALANCE PROBLEMS WE CURRENTLY SEE IS BECAUSE BLIZZ DIDN'T EXPERIMENT MUCH WITH TERRAN DURING THE BETA
Doesn't mean that THAT's the solution, but should be tried/tested in the PTR at least.. It's not solely all the Hellbat's fault.. It's quite a collage of units that make the combo too strong I think.. Might even be that Protoss gets a buff instead lol..
We have a balanced game right now. There are no balance problems. There are metagame problems that can be summed up "I don't like the way XvX matchup is looking like right now".
You can't go in and say: "let's do a huge nerf to race X to fix the meta" without breaking the balance. You have to consider the aftermath to keep the overall PvZvT balance intact.
who are you to say the game is balanced? I think people way to often mix up balance with winratios in a certain matchup. if TvZ is 50/50 winratio and all the terrangames are high supply mmmm wins and all the zergwins are roach-bane busts is the game balanced? Surely in winratio but is it an actual proper balance? Is it the kind of balance we want?
I am not saying this is the case though, it was just an example and to make it even more silly what if all P wins vs zerg would be 50min voidray, collosi archon and all zergwins where 7pools would we want that kind of balance even if the winratio was even?
I am someone who likes the performance-based balance approach. Here we go:
WCS Premier Season 2 Europe optimal: 11 11 10 actual 12P 10T 10Z
WCS Premier Season 2 Korea optimal: 11 11 10 actual 10P 8T 14Z
Premier tournaments winners optimal: 3 2 2 actual 3T 3Z 1P
Premier tournaments finalists optimal: 4 5 5 actual 4P 5Z 5T
On June 11 2013 16:33 VArsovskiSC wrote: 1 - make Medivac cost 125/125
So which boosts do you propose to compensate for such a nerf to terran?
If you read my post you'll see that I wrote:
ALL THE BALANCE PROBLEMS WE CURRENTLY SEE IS BECAUSE BLIZZ DIDN'T EXPERIMENT ENOUGH WITH TERRAN DURING THE BETA..
Doesn't mean that THAT's the solution, but should be tried/tested in the PTR at least.. It's not solely all the Hellbat's fault.. It's quite a collage of units that make the combo too strong I think.. Might even be that Protoss gets a buff instead lol..
Hell that's what was the problem in WoL for 1.5 years straight anyways.. They NEVER put Terran UP for at least EVEN a SECOND to SEE which problems they might FACE from the other races anyway at all..
Yeah the screaming wasn't required. But I made apparantly the incorrect assumption you wanted a balanced game, but you want a game where terran is underpowered, which does explain the changes you propose.
(Not to mention at least the last 6 months of WoL was completely dominated by zerg, with terran the least played race in every league above silver).
And the 1.5 years before that ?
The Rax before Bunker, the +10 damage vs light of Infernal, the ridiculous Ghost all-kill unit ? - those were problems vs Zerg.. And suddenly - a miracle happened - noone saw that coming but fixed the matchup like for less than a day - the Queen got 5 range instead of 3 lol
The Infestor issue you say about was a Protoss issue/problem..
Terrans weren't losing to Zerg cause of the Infestor, go back and see WoL data and you'll see that IN FACT TvZ was THE matchup to look upon in terms of balance..
INSTEAD Terran were losing to Protosses cause of high rate of predictability of builds - i.e. - bio, bio, and only bio.. I approve WoL Terran Tears, but only vs Protoss, hell I played Terran vs Protoss too and know how it was - if not the Colossus, then at least any small amount of lag would make me pissed too..
However - claiming "Protoss tears" to Infestors in WoL for the course of those 6 months and abuse them is an act of "justification" of hate cause someone else was winning - not good my friend.. not good lol.. Nice try there.. hehe
it's pretty obvious it's gonna happen. I think they'll gonna see what happens at DH this weekend and then make a decision. Hellbats are boring as hell in tvt but they are very fun against z and p and probably an only way to get some real damage done to the mineral line. mines are meh and too slow (damage output wise).
On June 11 2013 10:57 NrG.NeverExpo wrote: I feel like the most obvious solution would be to just make them un-healable by medivacs, but could be repaired. Adding to the pre igniter seems weird to me. I still feel they would be a viable way to harass and would even be good late game vs zealots if they werent healable, but its the fact that once they do drop they take so damn long to kill that makes them lethal.
Wedging 2-4 hellbats inside mineral lines makes them invincible vs zerglings etc.
Yes, I agree. Make them repairable but not healable and suddenly the drops get less scary, IF you react decently to them. If you don't, all your workers still die.
The only issue I have about changing hellbats/medivacs is how it's going to affect the other matchups. I feel like only recently-ish have terrans been consistently adding in hellbats to zealot and ling heavy compositions, which is exactly what Blizzard intended with them, and if you require an upgrade or something then it could steer terrans away from getting them at the times they currently do (which I don't feel is a problem in any way). Very difficult to get it to influence TvT without severing the way they work in the other matchups.
On June 11 2013 16:33 VArsovskiSC wrote: 1 - make Medivac cost 125/125
So which boosts do you propose to compensate for such a nerf to terran?
If you read my post you'll see that I wrote:
ALL THE BALANCE PROBLEMS WE CURRENTLY SEE IS BECAUSE BLIZZ DIDN'T EXPERIMENT MUCH WITH TERRAN DURING THE BETA
Doesn't mean that THAT's the solution, but should be tried/tested in the PTR at least.. It's not solely all the Hellbat's fault.. It's quite a collage of units that make the combo too strong I think.. Might even be that Protoss gets a buff instead lol..
We have a balanced game right now. There are no balance problems. There are metagame problems that can be summed up "I don't like the way XvX matchup is looking like right now".
You can't go in and say: "let's do a huge nerf to race X to fix the meta" without breaking the balance. You have to consider the aftermath to keep the overall PvZvT balance intact.
who are you to say the game is balanced? I think people way to often mix up balance with winratios in a certain matchup. if TvZ is 50/50 winratio and all the terrangames are high supply mmmm wins and all the zergwins are roach-bane busts is the game balanced? Surely in winratio but is it an actual proper balance? Is it the kind of balance we want?
I am not saying this is the case though, it was just an example and to make it even more silly what if all P wins vs zerg would be 50min voidray, collosi archon and all zergwins where 7pools would we want that kind of balance even if the winratio was even?
I am someone who likes the performance-based balance approach. Here we go:
WCS Premier Season 2 Europe optimal: 11 11 10 actual 12P 10T 10Z
WCS Premier Season 2 Korea optimal: 11 11 10 actual 10P 8T 14Z
Premier tournaments winners optimal: 3 2 2 actual 3T 3Z 1P
Premier tournaments finalists optimal: 4 5 5 actual 4P 5Z 5T
This looks close enough for me.
That's a way to narrow way to approach balance. You need to look at what actually happens in the games not only the winratios. TvZ in WoL was a long time balanced in winratios but lategame zerg seemed hugely favoured and alot of the terrans winratios where all ins. Maybe that makes it balance but personally I definitely want a more dynamic game then that.
On June 11 2013 10:57 NrG.NeverExpo wrote: I feel like the most obvious solution would be to just make them un-healable by medivacs, but could be repaired. Adding to the pre igniter seems weird to me. I still feel they would be a viable way to harass and would even be good late game vs zealots if they werent healable, but its the fact that once they do drop they take so damn long to kill that makes them lethal.
Wedging 2-4 hellbats inside mineral lines makes them invincible vs zerglings etc.
Yes, I agree. Make them repairable but not healable and suddenly the drops get less scary, IF you react decently to them. If you don't, all your workers still die.
I still think it makes hellbats pretty useless lategame vs especially toss. keep the healing as an upgrade! ( think ive said it to many times now :p)
On June 11 2013 16:33 VArsovskiSC wrote: 1 - make Medivac cost 125/125
So which boosts do you propose to compensate for such a nerf to terran?
If you read my post you'll see that I wrote:
ALL THE BALANCE PROBLEMS WE CURRENTLY SEE IS BECAUSE BLIZZ DIDN'T EXPERIMENT MUCH WITH TERRAN DURING THE BETA
Doesn't mean that THAT's the solution, but should be tried/tested in the PTR at least.. It's not solely all the Hellbat's fault.. It's quite a collage of units that make the combo too strong I think.. Might even be that Protoss gets a buff instead lol..
We have a balanced game right now. There are no balance problems. There are metagame problems that can be summed up "I don't like the way XvX matchup is looking like right now".
You can't go in and say: "let's do a huge nerf to race X to fix the meta" without breaking the balance. You have to consider the aftermath to keep the overall PvZvT balance intact.
who are you to say the game is balanced? I think people way to often mix up balance with winratios in a certain matchup. if TvZ is 50/50 winratio and all the terrangames are high supply mmmm wins and all the zergwins are roach-bane busts is the game balanced? Surely in winratio but is it an actual proper balance? Is it the kind of balance we want?
I am not saying this is the case though, it was just an example and to make it even more silly what if all P wins vs zerg would be 50min voidray, collosi archon and all zergwins where 7pools would we want that kind of balance even if the winratio was even?
I am someone who likes the performance-based balance approach. Here we go:
WCS Premier Season 2 Europe optimal: 11 11 10 actual 12P 10T 10Z
WCS Premier Season 2 Korea optimal: 11 11 10 actual 10P 8T 14Z
Premier tournaments winners optimal: 3 2 2 actual 3T 3Z 1P
Premier tournaments finalists optimal: 4 5 5 actual 4P 5Z 5T
This looks close enough for me.
I guess you dont like to watch games and are only interested in the results then? Personally I am more a "the way you get there is the most important bit" kind of guy and winning through mainly Hellbat drops is more boring than a long drawn out game with strategic positions held, threatened and overrun ... you know, games which require STRATEGY to win. Hellbats dont give that same level of excitement+ Show Spoiler +
and in a sense they are like premature ejaculation ... the game is over far too quickly
On June 11 2013 16:33 VArsovskiSC wrote: 1 - make Medivac cost 125/125
So which boosts do you propose to compensate for such a nerf to terran?
If you read my post you'll see that I wrote:
ALL THE BALANCE PROBLEMS WE CURRENTLY SEE IS BECAUSE BLIZZ DIDN'T EXPERIMENT MUCH WITH TERRAN DURING THE BETA
Doesn't mean that THAT's the solution, but should be tried/tested in the PTR at least.. It's not solely all the Hellbat's fault.. It's quite a collage of units that make the combo too strong I think.. Might even be that Protoss gets a buff instead lol..
We have a balanced game right now. There are no balance problems. There are metagame problems that can be summed up "I don't like the way XvX matchup is looking like right now".
You can't go in and say: "let's do a huge nerf to race X to fix the meta" without breaking the balance. You have to consider the aftermath to keep the overall PvZvT balance intact.
who are you to say the game is balanced? I think people way to often mix up balance with winratios in a certain matchup. if TvZ is 50/50 winratio and all the terrangames are high supply mmmm wins and all the zergwins are roach-bane busts is the game balanced? Surely in winratio but is it an actual proper balance? Is it the kind of balance we want?
I am not saying this is the case though, it was just an example and to make it even more silly what if all P wins vs zerg would be 50min voidray, collosi archon and all zergwins where 7pools would we want that kind of balance even if the winratio was even?
I am someone who likes the performance-based balance approach. Here we go:
WCS Premier Season 2 Europe optimal: 11 11 10 actual 12P 10T 10Z
WCS Premier Season 2 Korea optimal: 11 11 10 actual 10P 8T 14Z
Premier tournaments winners optimal: 3 2 2 actual 3T 3Z 1P
Premier tournaments finalists optimal: 4 5 5 actual 4P 5Z 5T
This looks close enough for me.
That's a way to narrow way to approach balance. You need to look at what actually happens in the games not only the winratios. TvZ in WoL was a long time balanced in winratios but lategame zerg seemed hugely favoured and alot of the terrans winratios where all ins. Maybe that makes it balance but personally I definitely want a more dynamic game then that.
having 64 players in WCS EU and WCS KR (as they are separate player pools) gives you a pretty snapshot of what does the top of SC2 in terms of skill looks like.
"Dynamic games" is yet another term for patching the meta. You want to patch the meta and destroy the balance and I am not fine with it, I want the meta to evolve by itself. It is simple as that.
On June 11 2013 16:33 VArsovskiSC wrote: 1 - make Medivac cost 125/125
So which boosts do you propose to compensate for such a nerf to terran?
If you read my post you'll see that I wrote:
ALL THE BALANCE PROBLEMS WE CURRENTLY SEE IS BECAUSE BLIZZ DIDN'T EXPERIMENT MUCH WITH TERRAN DURING THE BETA
Doesn't mean that THAT's the solution, but should be tried/tested in the PTR at least.. It's not solely all the Hellbat's fault.. It's quite a collage of units that make the combo too strong I think.. Might even be that Protoss gets a buff instead lol..
We have a balanced game right now. There are no balance problems. There are metagame problems that can be summed up "I don't like the way XvX matchup is looking like right now".
You can't go in and say: "let's do a huge nerf to race X to fix the meta" without breaking the balance. You have to consider the aftermath to keep the overall PvZvT balance intact.
who are you to say the game is balanced? I think people way to often mix up balance with winratios in a certain matchup. if TvZ is 50/50 winratio and all the terrangames are high supply mmmm wins and all the zergwins are roach-bane busts is the game balanced? Surely in winratio but is it an actual proper balance? Is it the kind of balance we want?
I am not saying this is the case though, it was just an example and to make it even more silly what if all P wins vs zerg would be 50min voidray, collosi archon and all zergwins where 7pools would we want that kind of balance even if the winratio was even?
I am someone who likes the performance-based balance approach. Here we go:
WCS Premier Season 2 Europe optimal: 11 11 10 actual 12P 10T 10Z
WCS Premier Season 2 Korea optimal: 11 11 10 actual 10P 8T 14Z
Premier tournaments winners optimal: 3 2 2 actual 3T 3Z 1P
Premier tournaments finalists optimal: 4 5 5 actual 4P 5Z 5T
This looks close enough for me.
I guess you dont like to watch games and are only interested in the results then? Personally I am more a "the way you get there is the most important bit" kind of guy and winning through mainly Hellbat drops is more boring than a long drawn out game with strategic positions held, threatened and overrun ... you know, games which require STRATEGY to win. Hellbats dont give that same level of excitement+ Show Spoiler +
and in a sense they are like premature ejaculation ... the game is over far too quickly
.
I watch the games and I'd like them to get better. Having this kind of stats however makes me think that "hey, let's nerf Terran" approach is not the way to go, as the results are way to close for that.
And every "solution" to this problem is essentially a terran nerf, whereas the results show that it would be unreasonable.
On June 11 2013 16:33 VArsovskiSC wrote: 1 - make Medivac cost 125/125
So which boosts do you propose to compensate for such a nerf to terran?
If you read my post you'll see that I wrote:
ALL THE BALANCE PROBLEMS WE CURRENTLY SEE IS BECAUSE BLIZZ DIDN'T EXPERIMENT MUCH WITH TERRAN DURING THE BETA
Doesn't mean that THAT's the solution, but should be tried/tested in the PTR at least.. It's not solely all the Hellbat's fault.. It's quite a collage of units that make the combo too strong I think.. Might even be that Protoss gets a buff instead lol..
We have a balanced game right now. There are no balance problems. There are metagame problems that can be summed up "I don't like the way XvX matchup is looking like right now".
You can't go in and say: "let's do a huge nerf to race X to fix the meta" without breaking the balance. You have to consider the aftermath to keep the overall PvZvT balance intact.
who are you to say the game is balanced? I think people way to often mix up balance with winratios in a certain matchup. if TvZ is 50/50 winratio and all the terrangames are high supply mmmm wins and all the zergwins are roach-bane busts is the game balanced? Surely in winratio but is it an actual proper balance? Is it the kind of balance we want?
I am not saying this is the case though, it was just an example and to make it even more silly what if all P wins vs zerg would be 50min voidray, collosi archon and all zergwins where 7pools would we want that kind of balance even if the winratio was even?
I am someone who likes the performance-based balance approach. Here we go:
WCS Premier Season 2 Europe optimal: 11 11 10 actual 12P 10T 10Z
WCS Premier Season 2 Korea optimal: 11 11 10 actual 10P 8T 14Z
Premier tournaments winners optimal: 3 2 2 actual 3T 3Z 1P
Premier tournaments finalists optimal: 4 5 5 actual 4P 5Z 5T
This looks close enough for me.
That's a way to narrow way to approach balance. You need to look at what actually happens in the games not only the winratios. TvZ in WoL was a long time balanced in winratios but lategame zerg seemed hugely favoured and alot of the terrans winratios where all ins. Maybe that makes it balance but personally I definitely want a more dynamic game then that.
having 64 players in WCS EU and WCS KR (as they are separate player pools) gives you a pretty snapshot of what does the top of SC2 in terms of skill looks like.
"Dynamic games" is yet another term for patching the meta. You want to patch the meta and destroy the balance and I am not fine with it, I want the meta to evolve by itself. It is simple as that.
you seem to live under the asumption that the meta always can evolve past a certain point. I think there definitely are situations where the meta can't fix balance. I do in general find that this is the best approach but you can't be to stubborn about it. If this is such a situation or not is not for me to decide, im way to low lvl for that and don't even play terran that much. I discuss to try to find the best solution but when you are so set in your idea of the meta will fix it there is kinda no reason to discuss. For me it feels like "put your fingers in your ears and scream META WILL FIX".
There definitely where situations in WoL where the meta got stagnant and the games got terrible to watch... or did you like the "immortal all in vs infestor broodlord" that PvZ evolved into? That was pretty much what we saw the last year.
Again, if this is the situation now or not is for the proscene to decide but don't get stuck in the notion of meta fixing it nor stare at winratios cause honestly, balance is way more complicated then that.
The problem to me is Hellbat being LIGHT UNIT with ~140HP. There is no T1, T1.5 unit (except suicidal banes) that deal with that kind of type efficiently. Healing has added up to that difficulty a big dime too.
Damage Nerf.Infernal preigniter requiered to reach ACTUAL damage (35)
64%
Nerf Medivac "thrusters" (9)
16%
Remove bio tag ONLY (8)
15%
Make Hellbats requiere "Transformation Servos" as well (3)
5%
Requiere resources to transform into "Hellbat" (0)
0%
Nerf Damage less than Hellion, but buff HP (0)
0%
55 total votes
Your vote: So many suggestions..so let´s go:
(Vote): Damage Nerf.Infernal preigniter requiered to reach ACTUAL damage (Vote): Remove bio tag ONLY (Vote): Requiere resources to transform into "Hellbat" (Vote): Nerf Damage less than Hellion, but buff HP (Vote): Make Hellbats requiere "Transformation Servos" as well (Vote): Nerf Medivac "thrusters"
Where is the: "Look at the way ForGG defends Hellbats and L2P?"
Ask Innovation and Mvp.I suppose,they were able to beat ForGG,but arent so good as him defending this,thats why they dedicated themselves to the "mass Hellbatdrop2 instead of "L2P"...."Full Foreigners"...
Yes, ForGG los a single TvT series vs WCS EU Champion, therefore his strategy is invalid and should be never ever looked into. Wp man, wp.
Who said his strategy is invalid??? And the Mvp vs ForGG series were not even that "hellbatdrop heavy" as the Mvp vs Innovation. You cant play the same strategy every single game in a BO5 or even BO3....
On June 11 2013 17:44 pieroog wrote: The problem to me is Hellbat being LIGHT UNIT with ~140HP. There is no T1, T1.5 unit (except suicidal banes) that deal with that kind of type efficiently. Healing has added up to that difficulty a big dime too.
On June 11 2013 16:33 VArsovskiSC wrote: 1 - make Medivac cost 125/125
So which boosts do you propose to compensate for such a nerf to terran?
If you read my post you'll see that I wrote:
ALL THE BALANCE PROBLEMS WE CURRENTLY SEE IS BECAUSE BLIZZ DIDN'T EXPERIMENT MUCH WITH TERRAN DURING THE BETA
Doesn't mean that THAT's the solution, but should be tried/tested in the PTR at least.. It's not solely all the Hellbat's fault.. It's quite a collage of units that make the combo too strong I think.. Might even be that Protoss gets a buff instead lol..
We have a balanced game right now. There are no balance problems. There are metagame problems that can be summed up "I don't like the way XvX matchup is looking like right now".
You can't go in and say: "let's do a huge nerf to race X to fix the meta" without breaking the balance. You have to consider the aftermath to keep the overall PvZvT balance intact.
who are you to say the game is balanced? I think people way to often mix up balance with winratios in a certain matchup. if TvZ is 50/50 winratio and all the terrangames are high supply mmmm wins and all the zergwins are roach-bane busts is the game balanced? Surely in winratio but is it an actual proper balance? Is it the kind of balance we want?
I am not saying this is the case though, it was just an example and to make it even more silly what if all P wins vs zerg would be 50min voidray, collosi archon and all zergwins where 7pools would we want that kind of balance even if the winratio was even?
I am someone who likes the performance-based balance approach. Here we go:
WCS Premier Season 2 Europe optimal: 11 11 10 actual 12P 10T 10Z
WCS Premier Season 2 Korea optimal: 11 11 10 actual 10P 8T 14Z
Premier tournaments winners optimal: 3 2 2 actual 3T 3Z 1P
Premier tournaments finalists optimal: 4 5 5 actual 4P 5Z 5T
This looks close enough for me.
I guess you dont like to watch games and are only interested in the results then? Personally I am more a "the way you get there is the most important bit" kind of guy and winning through mainly Hellbat drops is more boring than a long drawn out game with strategic positions held, threatened and overrun ... you know, games which require STRATEGY to win. Hellbats dont give that same level of excitement+ Show Spoiler +
and in a sense they are like premature ejaculation ... the game is over far too quickly
.
I watch the games and I'd like them to get better. Having this kind of stats however makes me think that "hey, let's nerf Terran" approach is not the way to go, as the results are way to close for that.
And every "solution" to this problem is essentially a terran nerf, whereas the results show that it would be unreasonable.
The results doesn't show anything of the sort. They don't in any way show that a small tweek to make early hellbat drops weaker would lower the terran winratios. Again, ZvP winratios where close to 50% in WoL and noone could ever claim that infestor BL didn't need nerfs.
And whatever blizzard decides the tweaks should be small, messing around to much is never a good thing
On June 11 2013 16:33 VArsovskiSC wrote: 1 - make Medivac cost 125/125
So which boosts do you propose to compensate for such a nerf to terran?
If you read my post you'll see that I wrote:
ALL THE BALANCE PROBLEMS WE CURRENTLY SEE IS BECAUSE BLIZZ DIDN'T EXPERIMENT MUCH WITH TERRAN DURING THE BETA
Doesn't mean that THAT's the solution, but should be tried/tested in the PTR at least.. It's not solely all the Hellbat's fault.. It's quite a collage of units that make the combo too strong I think.. Might even be that Protoss gets a buff instead lol..
We have a balanced game right now. There are no balance problems. There are metagame problems that can be summed up "I don't like the way XvX matchup is looking like right now".
You can't go in and say: "let's do a huge nerf to race X to fix the meta" without breaking the balance. You have to consider the aftermath to keep the overall PvZvT balance intact.
who are you to say the game is balanced? I think people way to often mix up balance with winratios in a certain matchup. if TvZ is 50/50 winratio and all the terrangames are high supply mmmm wins and all the zergwins are roach-bane busts is the game balanced? Surely in winratio but is it an actual proper balance? Is it the kind of balance we want?
I am not saying this is the case though, it was just an example and to make it even more silly what if all P wins vs zerg would be 50min voidray, collosi archon and all zergwins where 7pools would we want that kind of balance even if the winratio was even?
I am someone who likes the performance-based balance approach. Here we go:
WCS Premier Season 2 Europe optimal: 11 11 10 actual 12P 10T 10Z
WCS Premier Season 2 Korea optimal: 11 11 10 actual 10P 8T 14Z
Premier tournaments winners optimal: 3 2 2 actual 3T 3Z 1P
Premier tournaments finalists optimal: 4 5 5 actual 4P 5Z 5T
This looks close enough for me.
Where do you get those "optimal" numbers from? Don't ladder/# of progamer stats rather suggest something like: WCS Premier Season 2 Europe optimal: 10 11 11 - so more Protoss/Zerg than Terran (maybe even more than 10-11-11 in some regions)?
On June 11 2013 16:33 VArsovskiSC wrote: 1 - make Medivac cost 125/125
So which boosts do you propose to compensate for such a nerf to terran?
If you read my post you'll see that I wrote:
ALL THE BALANCE PROBLEMS WE CURRENTLY SEE IS BECAUSE BLIZZ DIDN'T EXPERIMENT ENOUGH WITH TERRAN DURING THE BETA..
Doesn't mean that THAT's the solution, but should be tried/tested in the PTR at least.. It's not solely all the Hellbat's fault.. It's quite a collage of units that make the combo too strong I think.. Might even be that Protoss gets a buff instead lol..
Hell that's what was the problem in WoL for 1.5 years straight anyways.. They NEVER put Terran UP for at least EVEN a SECOND to SEE which problems they might FACE from the other races anyway at all..
Yeah the screaming wasn't required. But I made apparantly the incorrect assumption you wanted a balanced game, but you want a game where terran is underpowered, which does explain the changes you propose.
(Not to mention at least the last 6 months of WoL was completely dominated by zerg, with terran the least played race in every league above silver).
And the 1.5 years before that ?
The Rax before Bunker, the +10 damage vs light of Infernal, the ridiculous Ghost all-kill unit ? - those were problems vs Zerg.. And suddenly - a miracle happened - noone saw that coming but fixed the matchup like for less than a day - the Queen got 5 range instead of 3 lol
The Infestor issue you say about was a Protoss issue/problem..
Terrans weren't losing to Zerg cause of the Infestor, go back and see WoL data and you'll see that IN FACT TvZ was THE matchup to look upon in terms of balance..
INSTEAD Terran were losing to Protosses cause of high rate of predictability of builds - i.e. - bio, bio, and only bio.. I approve WoL Terran Tears, but only vs Protoss, hell I played Terran vs Protoss too and know how it was - if not the Colossus, then at least any small amount of lag would make me pissed too..
However - claiming "Protoss tears" to Infestors in WoL for the course of those 6 months and abuse them is an act of "justification" of hate cause someone else was winning - not good my friend.. not good lol.. Nice try there.. hehe
"because of the high rate of predictability of builds" never heard such stupid thing, it shouldnt be about the build but how u execute it and also how many builds have protoss vs T? They either go colossi first or HT and then increase army size till they try to roll over the T, depending on the exact composition with lots of forcefields and storms (warning, this could require APM, not A-Move) or with addition of some archons.
and what you say about the infestor (no problem for terran) or ghost "ridiculous all kill unit" is a ridiculous statement itself. The infestor is still the shittiest designed unit in the game and terrans have lost tons of games against them. Either Bio Army got fungaled 2x and you lost everything, or spamming of infested terrans etc. When there was a ridiculous allkill unit then it was the infestor.
Damage Nerf.Infernal preigniter requiered to reach ACTUAL damage (35)
64%
Nerf Medivac "thrusters" (9)
16%
Remove bio tag ONLY (8)
15%
Make Hellbats requiere "Transformation Servos" as well (3)
5%
Requiere resources to transform into "Hellbat" (0)
0%
Nerf Damage less than Hellion, but buff HP (0)
0%
55 total votes
Your vote: So many suggestions..so let´s go:
(Vote): Damage Nerf.Infernal preigniter requiered to reach ACTUAL damage (Vote): Remove bio tag ONLY (Vote): Requiere resources to transform into "Hellbat" (Vote): Nerf Damage less than Hellion, but buff HP (Vote): Make Hellbats requiere "Transformation Servos" as well (Vote): Nerf Medivac "thrusters"
Two more suggestions:
- Nerf Hellbat HP (135 -> 90 I suggest)
- Make them more expensive by adding gas. 25 is ok.
EPT
