Blizzard should introduce it to kill Muta wars and solve Protoss air OPness (as many Zergs thinks about it). Well, it works like a Bunker, with some differences - Spore Cannons throw banes into air, and only banes, and only to air. I think it can not be OP just because Banelings still cost some money, cargo capacity for Spore can be decreased to 2-4 Banelings. Banelings do bonus damage versus Mutalisk (light), so it really can solve problem of Mutalisk wars in ZvZ. To make it not so strong, maybe add expensive upgrade for Spore Crawlers at Hive? Also it can be nerfed in other term - Spore Crawler shoots 50% slower, when loaded with Banelings, so enemy will have time for reaction and retreating.
Remember, everything can be balanced:
• lower cargo size for Spores, so it can storage 2 or 4 Banelings • or half fire speed when loaded with Banelings, so it will shoot every 2 seconds for example • or add indication that Spore Crawler now storages Banelings to shoot, so enemy can react and retreat • or slighty increase cost for Spore Crawlers • or decrease HP for Spore Crawlers • or lower Spore Crawler fire range by 1, when loaded with Banelings • affects only air, like Spore - Banelings that were exploded in the air wouldn't damage ground units under it.
But really, it's just for fun, but still... it's really nice idea
Poll: Do you like the idea?
Hell Yeah! (856)
72%
No, bad idea. (170)
14%
I hate my life. (86)
7%
Maybe, need to see it in action. (70)
6%
1182 total votes
Your vote: Do you like the idea?
(Vote): Hell Yeah! (Vote): Maybe, need to see it in action. (Vote): No, bad idea. (Vote): I hate my life.
This can work with balancing the baneling dmg to air. Actually great idea i must say. In zvp muta vs phoenix wars you can't really rush in to the lines if the enemy has banelings but thats another investment for zerg to do. In zvt this won't have much of a use anyway. David Kim, i know you are reading this, seriously do it as a protoss user i really liked the idea and it will give zvz way more options.
On June 07 2013 19:08 playerboy345 wrote: That looks so cool.. but would be so imbalanced T_T
Everything can be balanced:
• or lower cargo size for Spores, so it can storage 2 or 4 Banelings • or half fire speed when loaded with Banelings, so it will shoot every 2 seconds for example • or add indication that Spore Crawler now storages Banelings to shoot, so enemy can react and retreat • or slighty increase cost for Spore Crawlers • or decrease HP for Spore Crawlers • or lower Spore Crawler fire range by 1, when loaded with Banelings
On June 07 2013 19:08 playerboy345 wrote: That looks so cool.. but would be so imbalanced T_T
Everything can be balanced:
• or lower cargo size for Spores, so it can storage 2 or 4 Banelings • or half fire speed when loaded with Banelings, so it will shoot every 2 seconds for example • or add indication that Spore Crawler now storages Banelings to shoot • or slighty increase cost for Spore Crawlers • or decrease HP for Spore Crawlers
I completely agree, it doesn't have to work the same way it does to the ground. The idea is great, it can be balanced with internal testing...
its a cool idea but ultimately an unneeded balance change...the whole point of the spore buff vs light is for dealing with muta wars and in zvp there are already numerous ways to deal with skytoss.
On June 07 2013 19:08 playerboy345 wrote: That looks so cool.. but would be so imbalanced T_T
Everything can be balanced:
• or lower cargo size for Spores, so it can storage 2 or 4 Banelings • or half fire speed when loaded with Banelings, so it will shoot every 2 seconds for example • or add indication that Spore Crawler now storages Banelings to shoot, so enemy can react and retreat • or slighty increase cost for Spore Crawlers • or decrease HP for Spore Crawlers • or lower Spore Crawler fire range by 1, when loaded with Banelings
You make me wish blizzard would just add this to the game T_T
On June 07 2013 19:21 TylerThaCreator wrote: its a cool idea but ultimately an unneeded balance change...the whole point of the spore buff vs light is for dealing with muta wars and in zvp there are already numerous ways to deal with skytoss.
Everything can be balanced... remove anti-air effect for Fungal, nerf something other (if you feel OPness here), etc etc
On June 07 2013 19:21 TylerThaCreator wrote: its a cool idea but ultimately an unneeded balance change...the whole point of the spore buff vs light is for dealing with muta wars and in zvp there are already numerous ways to deal with skytoss.
Everything can be balanced... remove anti-air effect for Fungal, nerf something other (if you feel OPness here), etc etc
Everything can be balanced but it is not good idea to change many things with one patch. Blizz doesn't like that and won't do that.
Could you really look into the eyes of those innocent banelings and tell them to get into that thing to start a trip of no return? You ruthless person. Their happy laughs will be the last thing you hear. Could you really live with this?
I think its actually a good idea. It takes some extra apm to make banelings, load them and keep the proper spore crawlers loaded for muta. I think it's cool to see how pro's would handle enemy mass muta.
The downside is that although muta wars will be gone - they will make muta's underused as well in ZvZ. The solution needs to be more elegant.
I always thought the spore should have a small AoE associated with it. Something like 25% damage in a small area, something small enough that you could magic box around. Maybe nerf the primary hit's damage. Would deal with mutas and phoenixes nicely without being impossible to navigate around.
On June 07 2013 19:24 Plexa wrote: I should close this, but this does look really cool
This, and the fact that all of TL will hate you for closing it! :D
I would really want to see this in a test balance map. My question though, is this something you upgrade sporecrawler into, is it just the normal standard spore crawler that get an upgraded attack while the baneling is in it? Or is it a seperate building with no attacks without banelings being inside them??
On June 07 2013 19:08 playerboy345 wrote: That looks so cool.. but would be so imbalanced T_T
Everything can be balanced:
• or lower cargo size for Spores, so it can storage 2 or 4 Banelings • or half fire speed when loaded with Banelings, so it will shoot every 2 seconds for example • or add indication that Spore Crawler now storages Banelings to shoot, so enemy can react and retreat • or slighty increase cost for Spore Crawlers • or decrease HP for Spore Crawlers • or lower Spore Crawler fire range by 1, when loaded with Banelings
I would really want to see this in a test balance map. My question though, is this something you upgrade sporecrawler into, is it just the normal standard spore crawler that get an upgraded attack while the baneling is in it?
It can be a Hive-upgrade for Spore crawler, or just by default, but with other penalties, like lower fire speed when banes are loaded in or something from list above
No, seriously, entirely seriously, guys, this could be balanced well and put in the game. Like widow mines it can sometimes backfire - like you saw one spore was killed and all banelings inside are instantly dead with it, which is a huge loss. Depending on cargo space and speed of load/unload, depending on air damage of banelings which could have different radius and values; depending on speed and range of fire of spore cannons compared to just spores, this could be made not overpowered at all.
Lol this is realy cool. There is a bug though, the void rays and mutas dont target the banelings when they are airborne while they are the closest target.
I would really want to see this in a test balance map. My question though, is this something you upgrade sporecrawler into, is it just the normal standard spore crawler that get an upgraded attack while the baneling is in it?
It can be a Hive-upgrade for Spore crawler, or just by default, but with other penalties, like lower fire speed when banes are loaded in or something from list above
Looks cool, but this would just promote swarmhost + static d turtle style which would be very boring to watch. ZvZ in WCS today has had very few mutas so far. So im sure players have found an answer to it mostly.
That is excellent. =D You could potentially lower (halve?) the splash radius of banelings when catapulted into the air (and make it only affect air rather than both ground and air when catapulted), so that it's not as strong, it could even just deal the fixed 15 damage of spore crawlers + Show Spoiler +
(which fire every 0.8608 game seconds, rather than 1 second, so every 2 seconds is actually slower than half the rate)
rather than 35+upgrades, because the splash damage could be enough, along with fast enough speed on the firing animation.
On June 07 2013 19:24 Plexa wrote: I should close this, but this does look really cool
It's really a shame that that's the mentality when people are just trying to add more ideas and creativity to a game they love, outside of modified (custom) maps. I know you guys like to avoid having "this is how I would balance starcraft" threads, but there's a lot more to this, even if only as a joke thread. Heck, it's even in SC2 General rather than SC2 strategy or anything like that, so it's not like people are saying "This thread is to save us all from ZvZ and here is my 100% serious, God-send approach to it!" :Þ
On June 07 2013 21:47 AmericanUmlaut wrote: Why only Banelings? I would make the function generic: Load a unit, fire the unit, the unit gets one AA attack, then lands.
I want to see my Void Rays die in a hail of flying Ultralisks.
Yeah, zerg needs ultralisk catapult to shoot them on ramps in enemy base.
On June 07 2013 20:42 USvBleakill wrote: Pretty funny but almost impossible to balance. in ZvZ it would defistate Mutas, in ZvP stargate play and in TvP it would be a huge nerf to drop play.
If fire rate is reduced and bane damage is revised, it'd do less to Medivacs than normal spores now. Spores do 15 damage to nonbio, and banes do 20 damage to non-light. Medivacs and Voids are non-light.
The aoe and the damage can be changed to make the effect on vT and vP less.
possibly it could require an upgrade to hold the blings. like ovies have to upgrade to carry units, similar concept. Maybe that would appease some of the issues. This could do terrible, terrible damage to early terran drop harass (which isn't as good), and limit later drop play (which isn't too bad). Things like this change the meta game and I like seeing changes. These changes keep the game evolving which is cool to watch.
Another thing to probably change is the radius of splash damage and/or the damage dealt.
Also, to prevent some people's worries about loading them and walking- make them stay rooted when there is even one baneling inside. Heck- I play as terran and I think this could be good.
Warp Cannon, upgrade researched at Cybernetics Core: Allows Photon Cannons to fire through the dimensional rift created at the top of a Warp Gate, allowing the projectile to land anywhere there is power. Applications include defending proxy pylons from inside one's own main, or using the new SpeedPrism to unleash a devastating volley of Cannon shots as soon as it arrives, which then continue to fire through the rift at any enemy units in a powered location.
I don't play Zerg, but I think it is ridiculous that Spore Crawlers do 3 times their base damage to biological units. Going from 15 to 45 damage is really extreme, and they 3 shot Mutalisks now.
This change makes a lot more sense to me.
I do believe that Protoss needs something similar, it was suggested on the Blizzard forums. Protoss light anti-air is really lacking unless you're willing to dump a lot of gas into Phoenixes.
Actually, it might not be as imbalanced as it might seem. Strategies may now involve stuff like suiciding overlords into spore crawlers since banelings trade cost ineffectively with overlords i.e. 10/11 banelings = 500 minerals 250 gas to kill 1 overlord if the zerg isn't looking! ^^
This is the first good idea I have heard in a long time. The idea it self is brilliant. All it needs balancing and it will be a wonderful addition to the game.
What I love about these really creative new ways to utilize banelings is that it creates so many opportunities for micro on both sides. Even with the spores you can micro against it by splitting units and attacking the banes in air. With the infestor version Existor is right...fungle growth and banelings together is probably too synergistic and would be tough to balance. However, visually it makes much more sense for an infestor to carry and spit banelings than a spore crawler. And I kinda like the idea of replacing the old infestor mechanic with a micro based mechanic that is similar to a seige tank in terms of damage but is not instant, has overkill, projectile can be targeted down mid-air. I just see so many opportunities for amazing micro that would make this game so much more fun to play and watch than it already is. I really hope they give these ideas a chance over a Blizzard for the next expansion.
On June 08 2013 00:33 Jezebeth wrote: possibly it could require an upgrade to hold the blings. like ovies have to upgrade to carry units, similar concept. Maybe that would appease some of the issues. This could do terrible, terrible damage to early terran drop harass (which isn't as good), and limit later drop play (which isn't too bad). Things like this change the meta game and I like seeing changes. These changes keep the game evolving which is cool to watch.
Another thing to probably change is the radius of splash damage and/or the damage dealt.
Also, to prevent some people's worries about loading them and walking- make them stay rooted when there is even one baneling inside. Heck- I play as terran and I think this could be good.
Just my two cents.
Reminder that the medivac is armored and wouldn't take bonus damages from the baneling
On June 08 2013 00:33 Jezebeth wrote: possibly it could require an upgrade to hold the blings. like ovies have to upgrade to carry units, similar concept. Maybe that would appease some of the issues. This could do terrible, terrible damage to early terran drop harass (which isn't as good), and limit later drop play (which isn't too bad). Things like this change the meta game and I like seeing changes. These changes keep the game evolving which is cool to watch.
Another thing to probably change is the radius of splash damage and/or the damage dealt.
Also, to prevent some people's worries about loading them and walking- make them stay rooted when there is even one baneling inside. Heck- I play as terran and I think this could be good.
Just my two cents.
Reminder that the medivac is armored and wouldn't take bonus damages from the baneling
On June 08 2013 00:38 Crownlol wrote: To balance this, Protoss gets Warp Cannons.
Warp Cannon, upgrade researched at Cybernetics Core: Allows Photon Cannons to fire through the dimensional rift created at the top of a Warp Gate, allowing the projectile to land anywhere there is power. Applications include defending proxy pylons from inside one's own main, or using the new SpeedPrism to unleash a devastating volley of Cannon shots as soon as it arrives, which then continue to fire through the rift at any enemy units in a powered location.
I don't like that. Not one bit. Plus that seems like a stretch of a mechanic. Plus, what would Terran get out of that? Zerg getting a buff wouldn't be the end of the world. Bunkers and cannons can hit ground and air where we Zerg have to build 2 separate buildings. If this was available mid-late game it would be pretty on par.
Rather than the bio damage, the spore shot could do splash. It wouldn't effect ZvP or ZvT but having the shots splash would mean even a glancing blow on a muta pack would hurt. A lot.
Which ultimately is what ZvZ muta wars should be about.
Heheh thats certainly a funny idea but like so many said - certainly broken, too.
I'm not even saying its OP or something, but its still just a cheap solution for some problems that probably do indeed exist. For a fun map though, its totally cool.
PS: A mothership should be able to create pylon energy, too. Q_Q
The idea is definitely interesting, my biggest worry would be improving the already powerful zerg static defense. Turtling on spore, queen, swarmhost + sometimes corruptor is already a really viable & powerful strategy. But maybe it's worth testing regardless in hopes it'll create a more dynamic game style from Protoss in PvZ where we (P) 'for once' don't try to turtle Voidray vs Zerg on every f-ing map. There needs to be a more dynamic set of builds put out from Protoss, the matchup is too much of a rinse & repeat process atm.
I don't like that. Not one bit. Plus that seems like a stretch of a mechanic. Plus, what would Terran get out of that? Zerg getting a buff wouldn't be the end of the world. Bunkers and cannons can hit ground and air where we Zerg have to build 2 separate buildings. If this was available mid-late game it would be pretty on par.
Bunkers can hit neither ground nor air.
If the baneling cannon could hit ground it would be much too strong. Would people use it if it could only hit air? Seems like it could be pretty expensive way to defend against muta. Hopefully we'll see it on the next test map though.
hmm... blizzard did say that they want strong offensive games and they generally dont favor defense... (source: SotG 94) so although spore crawlers shooting banelings look awesome its quite doubtful that this will be the balance change that blizz will do
On June 08 2013 02:11 dogmode wrote: hmm... blizzard did say that they want strong offensive games and they generally dont favor defense... (source: SotG 94) so although spore crawlers shooting banelings look awesome its quite doubtful that this will be the balance change that blizz will do
It will allow zergs use Spore crawlers in offence, like Terrans are using widow mines, which are supposed to be a unit for defence.
With short rooting time it can become a new anti-air siege tank for zerg side. And I think for compensation there can be no anti-air effect for Fungal Growth and probably lower rooting time for Spore Crawler from 6 seconds to 4
this idea is actually brilliant, I believe it would give an option for zergs to solve many of the current ZvX issues, however they would have to tone down the spore crawler damage back to previous form and have baneling's damage tuned down slightly to make it balanced.
Artists are fast today, holy crap. Not even out a day and already a picture of it.
I love to accompany good threads with some simple fanarts in banner
If you could move spore crawlers with Banelings inside this would open some REALLY cool options.
I think, there should be an option that you can't uproot Spore Crawler with banelings inside. Because it's just physically and visually impossible to hold banelings in uprooted mode. When it's rooted, it feels more logical that banelings are stored under Spore Crawler (underground).
I think it should be limited to only stationary state, so it would be semi siege-bunker building with short range.
i don't see how this is imbalanced. compared to the other races, zerg has a sever disadvantage when it comes to air. Mutas are only good for harrassment, and can barely stand a head to head fight. The only thing corruptors are use for are to deal with collossi...which dont shoot back at them. If you try to get corr. against VR's then you are just wasting resources. Hydras can deal with them...if they could keep up. Same goes for infestors now that fungal is a missile.
I dont see a problem with this. It's costing the zerg resources PER ATTACK. and can be managed the same way you manage banelings on the ground - split them up. magic box over the spores forcing zerg to load up more banelings//resources in order to deal with your forces.
Wow, this looks visually appealing, makes since in lore (moreso than bonus damage vs biological on spores) and fixes several issues in multiplayer forcing using voidrays to require splitting rather than a moving. I guess fungal kinda does this as well. Idk, thinking about it more I don't think it would fix anything.
On June 08 2013 06:34 Mistakes wrote: Seeing as Mutas aren't a problem in ZvZ anymore, I'm not sure how much this would really help the game, but a cool idea none the less! :D
Imagine if Blizzard did changes like this to the game though, instead of dumb, extremely specific shit like +dmg to biological or whatever. This spore cannon feels almost like how Dota is being balanced.
On June 08 2013 06:45 jinorazi wrote: splash vs air is no joke, balancing will be hard and other races would need something similar as it was for all three races in bw.
I think if range and rate of fire were low enough and the spores like glowed green it could work (maybe). They should have to convert to a baneling launcher first and maybe not have detection and or the ability to move. This was entertaining if nothing else
My qualm with this is that it promotes Spine/Spore pushes that is reminiscent of the dark days of WoL PvZ. I'd much rather it be seen on a unit way before mass Spores would be a thing. The Hydra-Roach should have one final evolution after he activates your trap card.
On June 08 2013 06:30 Quotidian wrote: I don't see anything fundamentally wrong or game breaking about this.. it's like a less mobile version of a Scourge. Did Scourge break BW?
with what logic is this like a less mobile version of scourge?
anyway, although it's a cute idea it would simply lend itself towards more passive play. Buffing static defense further is NOT the way forward.
by the logic that it fills almost exactly the same niche as a scourge (air splash) and it fires suicide units - but in a very limited capacity as far as mobility goes.
And it doesn't necessarily only facilitate passive play. It'd synergize very well with creep pushes and swarm hosts...
On June 08 2013 06:30 Quotidian wrote: I don't see anything fundamentally wrong or game breaking about this.. it's like a less mobile version of a Scourge. Did Scourge break BW?
I don't know about breaking stuff, but it would operate in a fundamentally different way than scourge despite being a suicide attack. This amounts to more static defence. It could work on the otherhand, it might just be more turtle play. Unless they tighten up attack-retreat micro so muta could pick off the incoming banelings.
Scourge encourged micro maneuvers. The Chinese triangle was probably among the most difficult maneuvers to pull off, but it allowed mutas to pick off scourge. The precise speed of scourge vs shuttles and corsairs created a chasing game. Air vs air by default tends to lack much movement (cluster vs cluster.) But scourge actually forced a mobile war in the air.
Funny idea though. Should be used along side baller's sick, new hydraroach.
I honestly think this is a sick idea. This makes the player split up their army into different locations. 3-4 banelings at each base to shut down mutalisk. It can create dynamic micro, such as using corruptor to soak up all banelings, or, magic box the spore,) which allow the mutalisk once again to ruin bases. The baneling launcher can be balance out by cargo size, launch distance, launch speed, auto-cast on/off, baneling's attack vs air....etc.
IT LOOKS AMAZINGLY FUN TO WATCH!!!! BLIZZARD SEE THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On June 08 2013 06:45 jinorazi wrote: splash vs air is no joke, balancing will be hard and other races would need something similar as it was for all three races in bw.
yeah looks like it will counter air play . . .full stop, this just means you cant go air ever against zerg cos who would want to to go air? Why not just make the spore cost more and add splash to the projectile but make
Maybe we should make Brood Lords to load Banelings as well so that it can shot banelings as super rockets. And let Ultras eat Banelings so they will explode on death (like Devastatror in Dune2)
On June 08 2013 17:49 nimdil wrote: Maybe we should make Brood Lords to load Banelings as well so that it can shot banelings as super rockets. And let Ultras eat Banelings so they will explode on death (like Devastatror in Dune2)
I wouldn't actually mind if Broodlords shot Banelings that you had to build and not broodlings.
cool idea. how about we just bring back scourge =.=
i'd add a lair tech in the evolution chamber upgrade. 200/250 to make it an investment and to make early air builds still viable. And spores can only contain one or two bane lings at a time.
how about we also make it able to catapult any zerg ground unit too while we're at it. if this, perhaps make swarm host able to create air swarms while spores are burrowed on top of them
yeah, but realistically, dont think devs will make a drastic change in mechanics. they'd probably save for the next expansion or something heh
On June 08 2013 18:05 robih wrote: protoss air opness??
stopped taking the op serious right there
Many zerg thinks that Skytoss is very strong. If you're disagree, okay. WHat about my side, I think skytoss is strong, but thats the power of Protoss air, or it can be useless, and Zerg have answer to that strong air - Swarm Hosts with free units. Watching Rekatan and I can say, that this is all about balancing OP things. Protoss have some imba-unit compositions, but zerg have answer to them.
i thought this was a joke before i saw the video. muta wars r already dead after the last match. not gonna fix airtoss, spores already work on split maps but neither this or spores will work on other maps.
I don't think they'll put this on the game just because 3 spores and a few banelings is far less an investment than what the P or Z player made on voidrays/mutalisks and it just hard counters air
On June 08 2013 19:38 MassTank wrote: I don't think they'll put this on the game just because 3 spores and a few banelings is far less an investment than what the P or Z player made on voidrays/mutalisks and it just hard counters air
Not necessarily. You can bait banelings in spores with singular Corruptors. With 20 damage / hit it will pretty cost uneffective.
On June 08 2013 19:38 MassTank wrote: I don't think they'll put this on the game just because 3 spores and a few banelings is far less an investment than what the P or Z player made on voidrays/mutalisks and it just hard counters air
And the only way to engage these things is to clump youre units and A-move so its totally unbalanced.
-I think it would be cool to see, it would punish players who dont pay attention in a similar way to widow mines but baiting these to explode on single units would make it a big investment for the Zerg.
On June 08 2013 19:38 MassTank wrote: I don't think they'll put this on the game just because 3 spores and a few banelings is far less an investment than what the P or Z player made on voidrays/mutalisks and it just hard counters air
And the only way to engage these things is to clump youre units and A-move so its totally unbalanced.
-I think it would be cool to see, it would punish players who dont pay attention in a similar way to widow mines but baiting these to explode on single units would make it a big investment for the Zerg.
I think the end result would be that people will keep banelings on "stand-by" near spores and it would be difference between good and bad player to load banelings on time.
this was actually one of my tips to blizzard in my latest e-mail to them, i also reccomended that combat-shield should give +65 hp and that a marine range upgrade should be available. Would be cool with a +4 range upgrade for marines for lets say 150-50. Also Collosus should shoot air.
I think it would be good if the baneling shooting was an ability (that temporarily disables regular attack); be it autocast or not; with a cooldown or not. Maybe it would be too strong if the spore cannon wasn't a dedicated unit only for launching banelings though.
On June 08 2013 19:38 MassTank wrote: I don't think they'll put this on the game just because 3 spores and a few banelings is far less an investment than what the P or Z player made on voidrays/mutalisks and it just hard counters air
Oh yeah totally. Spending 600 minerals and 300 gas (not counting the cost of a spore cannon) is far too efficient to kill 1 or 2 Void Ray. With air units spread out and baiting they won't take detrimental damages from banelings considering the opponent's cost investment. Mutalisks would take pretty hard hits though as light units, but that's intentional. Damage and splash radius of the cannon can always be changed to something other than that of baneling's. In fact the radius of a baneling explosion probably is inappropriate for this (too large), particularly against mutalisks.
Realize that protoss can use carriers, tempests, and colossus to completely screw this over, so calling it overpowered is absolutely ridiculous.
Also realize that turrets and spore crawlers are supposed to counter air effectively... that's all they can do.
On June 08 2013 20:15 ImperialFist wrote: this was actually one of my tips to blizzard in my latest e-mail to them, i also reccomended that combat-shield should give +65 hp and that a marine range upgrade should be available. Would be cool with a +4 range upgrade for marines for lets say 150-50. Also Collosus should shoot air.
The latter should be balanced with +15 range upgrade for Siege Tanks for TvT purposes. Also for another upgrade Siege Tanks should fire air as well.
There should at least be something in the starcraft arcade where you can use this feature. Even in a unit tester, the spore cannon is the ultimate weapon.
On June 08 2013 20:28 ajxPurpleRain wrote: There should at least be something in the starcraft arcade where you can use this feature. Even in a unit tester, the spore cannon is the ultimate weapon.
Imagine you could load widow mines into siege tanks and it could shot en-route to the target mid-air (without delay)
despite all the silly responses, i actually think this is a more interesting, fun, and elegant solution than Blizzards +30 damage to Bio buff to spores.
On June 08 2013 06:45 jinorazi wrote: splash vs air is no joke, balancing will be hard and other races would need something similar as it was for all three races in bw.
On June 08 2013 06:45 jinorazi wrote: splash vs air is no joke, balancing will be hard and other races would need something similar as it was for all three races in bw.
Would be interesting, but I feel that there is no precedent for Blizz making these kind of changes based on suggestions (aside from removing the warhound...but that was during the beta).
Sure, it is balance-able, but this large of a change is likely too large for Blizzard to make outside of an expansion.
Honestly as a zerg I don't see the use of this. Spores are already so good against mutas that this is just redundant. Although it could be good against mass voidrays, there are serious problems with this being a viable answer to skytoss:
Skytoss is about large armies and high cost efficiency. The goal is frequently not to attack into your opponent but to run them out of money simply through defending and trading well while forcing engagements with the range of tempests. Keeping this in mind, a zerg player must choose one of two paths. Either to swarm the protoss; catch them before critical mass and trade well enough that they are eventually overwhelmed; or to play the cost efficiency game with vipers, spines, spores, swarmhosts infestors, and whatever supplemental anti-air. So where do spores shooting banelings fit in with this? It certainly doesnt work with the swarm strategy for obv reasons, and I would also argue that it isnt much good for cost efficiency wars either. Consider a standard fight. The protoss approaches the spine spore wall, tempests and carriers start to thin the static defense. vipers pull a few units into the spores where they die. During this fight the spores shoot at interceptors and at single units. At no point is there need for anti-air splash. The scenario in the video where a massive clump of voidrays run straight into a spore wall is simply not something which good skytoss players ever do. The outragous cost of shooting banelings with each shot is a method of attacking which will almost never be cost efficient. I'm sorry but I dont see this as a very good change.
This is laffable with how it's presented in the video, but an interesting idea. Albeit I don't believe it should (and obviously will not be) implemented.
On June 08 2013 06:45 jinorazi wrote: splash vs air is no joke, balancing will be hard and other races would need something similar as it was for all three races in bw.
Terran splash vs air: - widow mine - thors - raven's seeker missile - Nuclear Missile - EMP vs vipers
Protoss splash vs air: - storm - archon
Zerg splash vs air: - fungal growth only
Other races already have "something similar" and in a bigger amount than Zerg.
On June 08 2013 06:45 jinorazi wrote: splash vs air is no joke, balancing will be hard and other races would need something similar as it was for all three races in bw.
On June 08 2013 22:01 Fishgle wrote: despite all the silly responses, i actually think this is a more interesting, fun, and elegant solution than Blizzards +30 damage to Bio buff to spores.
I agree the spore buff isn't very elegant (as you so elegantly put it ) but this will obviously not only be strong against muta so they don't really compare.
On June 08 2013 22:01 Fishgle wrote: despite all the silly responses, i actually think this is a more interesting, fun, and elegant solution than Blizzards +30 damage to Bio buff to spores.
I agree the spore buff isn't very elegant (as you so elegantly put it ) but this will obviously not only be strong against muta so they don't really compare.
why does it matter if it'd be stronger against more than mutas? Zerg has, as others have pointed out, a big hole in their anti-air splash damage compared to the other two races. This would be a very original, fun and very zergy way of dealing with that hole
On June 08 2013 22:01 Fishgle wrote: despite all the silly responses, i actually think this is a more interesting, fun, and elegant solution than Blizzards +30 damage to Bio buff to spores.
I agree the spore buff isn't very elegant (as you so elegantly put it ) but this will obviously not only be strong against muta so they don't really compare.
why does it matter if it'd be stronger against more than mutas? Zerg has, as others have pointed out, a big hole in their anti-air splash damage compared to the other two races. This would be a very original, fun and very zergy way of dealing with that hole
That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying that they don't compare. The spore buff was specifically implemented to affect ZvZ. That's why it's such an unelegant change really; That it's so much more powerful against just one unit (of the same race). It's not difficult to make a more interesting anti air mechanic if it is allowed to be better against everything.
Wouldn't this completely destroy carrier interceptors? 2 or 3 shots and all the interceptors are dead.
Funny idea but if Zerg gets one, Protoss should get one too. Mass muta too good against cannons that can only shoot one thing at a time. I want splash cannons for Toss too.
On June 16 2013 13:19 Epishade wrote: Wouldn't this completely destroy carrier interceptors? 2 or 3 shots and all the interceptors are dead.
Funny idea but if Zerg gets one, Protoss should get one too. Mass muta too good against cannons that can only shoot one thing at a time. I want splash cannons for Toss too.
this may be true, but you are assuming carriers are being made...
On June 16 2013 13:19 Epishade wrote: Wouldn't this completely destroy carrier interceptors? 2 or 3 shots and all the interceptors are dead.
Funny idea but if Zerg gets one, Protoss should get one too. Mass muta too good against cannons that can only shoot one thing at a time. I want splash cannons for Toss too.
this may be true, but you are assuming carriers are being made...
on the other hand, i approve of this lolsomeness.
Wtf does this mean? Just because carriers aren't made every game doesn't mean you shouldn't include them when balancing something that could affect them.
On June 08 2013 06:45 jinorazi wrote: splash vs air is no joke, balancing will be hard and other races would need something similar as it was for all three races in bw.
Terran splash vs air: - widow mine - thors - raven's seeker missile - Nuclear Missile - EMP vs vipers
Protoss splash vs air: - storm - archon
Zerg splash vs air: - fungal growth only
Other races already have "something similar" and in a bigger amount than Zerg.
You forget da mutariskuu, brah. They splash all over everything.
On June 08 2013 06:45 jinorazi wrote: splash vs air is no joke, balancing will be hard and other races would need something similar as it was for all three races in bw.
Terran splash vs air: - widow mine - thors - raven's seeker missile - Nuclear Missile - EMP vs vipers
Protoss splash vs air: - storm - archon
Zerg splash vs air: - fungal growth only
Other races already have "something similar" and in a bigger amount than Zerg.
You forget da mutariskuu, brah. They splash all over everything.
By splash he meant area-of-affect attacks. Mutas do not do aoe.
On June 08 2013 20:15 ImperialFist wrote: this was actually one of my tips to blizzard in my latest e-mail to them, i also reccomended that combat-shield should give +65 hp and that a marine range upgrade should be available. Would be cool with a +4 range upgrade for marines for lets say 150-50. Also Collosus should shoot air.
The latter should be balanced with +15 range upgrade for Siege Tanks for TvT purposes. Also for another upgrade Siege Tanks should fire air as well.
Ultralisk should also be allowed to leap into air battle
It would look like that
And it would cleave air to stop the muta wars and protoss op air
On June 08 2013 20:15 ImperialFist wrote: this was actually one of my tips to blizzard in my latest e-mail to them, i also reccomended that combat-shield should give +65 hp and that a marine range upgrade should be available. Would be cool with a +4 range upgrade for marines for lets say 150-50. Also Collosus should shoot air.
The latter should be balanced with +15 range upgrade for Siege Tanks for TvT purposes. Also for another upgrade Siege Tanks should fire air as well.
Ultralisk should also be allowed to leap into air battle
It would look like that
And it would cleave air to stop the muta wars and protoss op air
LOL!
Ok this is too much but maybe a very expensive upgrade that could make the ultralisk jump cliffs could be manageable.. heheh ;D
On June 17 2013 06:32 dabom88 wrote: Only if Turrets and Photon cannons also get Splash upgrades.
Turrets did have a Splash upgrade in the WoL campaign, wouldn't be hard to adapt.
You already have widow mines and thors as good aa-splash, plus terran turrets can be upgraded with more range and armor, don't forget about their repairing.
What about protoss cannons... they have recall to teleport entire army, and storms with archons, to counter mass-mutalisks.
how about being able to load banelings into overlords and have them explode to cause damage to enemy air units? not my idea, I saw someone post that somewhere on this forum before and I love it
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tyBsP3h.png)
![[image loading]](http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2013/111/0/4/flying_ultralisk_by_tsurakashi-d62ggiy.jpg)
