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On June 11 2013 15:18 aBstractx wrote:
korhal skyland's top left and bottom right spawns make absolutely no sense. i cant see this working.. ever? bottom left top right i love, but when youre playing pvz and you need to wall, you have to wall both sides with an awkward wall, and then you have to wall off a choke the size of china if you plan on taking a third base. which i never plan on taking lol
So instead of adapting and changing your play styles, you decide to shit on the map?
The map plays out fine and has produced a variety of excellent games (both macro and rush oriented) on Proleague.
I remember people complaining about Planet S when it was first introduced and people love it now.
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On June 11 2013 15:18 aBstractx wrote:
korhal skyland's top left and bottom right spawns make absolutely no sense. i cant see this working.. ever? bottom left top right i love, but when youre playing pvz and you need to wall, you have to wall both sides with an awkward wall, and then you have to wall off a choke the size of china if you plan on taking a third base. which i never plan on taking lol
Why? You can wall the map with 1 pylon and a gate on each side or 1 gate 1 cyber core. Or you can do it with 1 bunker 1 supply depot 1 side 1 barracks 1 depot on the other. Really there is no problem with this map you just complain before you even test it. You probably haven't even seen games on the map.
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On June 11 2013 18:48 FCReverie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2013 15:18 aBstractx wrote:
korhal skyland's top left and bottom right spawns make absolutely no sense. i cant see this working.. ever? bottom left top right i love, but when youre playing pvz and you need to wall, you have to wall both sides with an awkward wall, and then you have to wall off a choke the size of china if you plan on taking a third base. which i never plan on taking lol Why? You can wall the map with 1 pylon and a gate on each side or 1 gate 1 cyber core. Or you can do it with 1 bunker 1 supply depot 1 side 1 barracks 1 depot on the other. Really there is no problem with this map you just complain before you even test it. You probably haven't even seen games on the map.
I believe the last TvZ on this map was 2 months ago and it was a CC first which is a huge gamble on this map since I don't think it's possible to have a wall-off on this map going for a gasless 1 rax expand against a 10 pool.
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On June 11 2013 15:36 TeslasPigeon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2013 15:18 aBstractx wrote:
korhal skyland's top left and bottom right spawns make absolutely no sense. i cant see this working.. ever? bottom left top right i love, but when youre playing pvz and you need to wall, you have to wall both sides with an awkward wall, and then you have to wall off a choke the size of china if you plan on taking a third base. which i never plan on taking lol So instead of adapting and changing your play styles, you decide to shit on the map? The map plays out fine and has produced a variety of excellent games (both macro and rush oriented) on Proleague. I remember people complaining about Planet S when it was first introduced and people love it now.
Seriously.
That spawn is bad.Its for muta ownage vs T and P.
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On June 12 2013 05:17 Liman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2013 15:36 TeslasPigeon wrote:On June 11 2013 15:18 aBstractx wrote:
korhal skyland's top left and bottom right spawns make absolutely no sense. i cant see this working.. ever? bottom left top right i love, but when youre playing pvz and you need to wall, you have to wall both sides with an awkward wall, and then you have to wall off a choke the size of china if you plan on taking a third base. which i never plan on taking lol So instead of adapting and changing your play styles, you decide to shit on the map? The map plays out fine and has produced a variety of excellent games (both macro and rush oriented) on Proleague. I remember people complaining about Planet S when it was first introduced and people love it now. Seriously. That spawn is bad.Its for muta ownage vs T and P. Terran drops behind the natural expansion are pretty strong too.
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Is anyone else's computer having trouble running the new maps? My frame rate on the new maps is notably lower than on the older maps, particularly on the new Newkirk Precinct TE map. I retested the old maps too and I'm having no problems on them.
I had to lower my graphics settings to ensure I never drop below 60 FPS on these new maps, which is annoying since the game was running fine in most situations before.
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On June 12 2013 06:07 archwaykitten wrote:
Is anyone else's computer having trouble running the new maps? My frame rate on the new maps is notably lower than on the older maps, particularly on the new Newkirk Precinct TE map. I retested the old maps too and I'm having no problems on them.
I had to lower my graphics settings to ensure I never drop below 60 FPS on these new maps, which is annoying since the game was running fine in most situations before.
Yes, I have the same issue on Newkirk.
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Vetoed Korhal island because i just can't stand it.
Why oh why ? If you Attack move in a base that you can't see but there is a wall. Your units go there and destroy it. If there are rocks... your units go the other way arround.... and die to an army that you saw there... So instead i constantly have to scout if the rocks are down or not... But i can't do it with a ling (because tanks shoot you before you can see the rocks) and well... speed over dies to viking (but hey you scouted that the rocks was there and ... the terran noticed it and you lost an ovi for nothing). (i know that i'm not very clear but i'm tired and ... well  not an english)
I really don't like it. For a low level player with a slow reaction time... If you take Akilon wastes and the other player have downed his rocks at his 3rd (and you have no vision of it). You attack with your army for the third... And it walks into the natural where all of the army his...
So ... no khoral island for me. Can't stand the fast rock block skyterran that follow. To hard for me to play against 
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Just narrowly avoided disaster on korhal island, vetoed right after. Maybe it is good in proleague, but because it messes with my wall I would veto it with all three of my votes if I could.
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A little disappointed Klontas Mire was removed. I liked that map for the Tasteless's secret hallway it possessed - perfect for baneling landmines.
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On June 12 2013 16:56 Baum wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 06:07 archwaykitten wrote:
Is anyone else's computer having trouble running the new maps? My frame rate on the new maps is notably lower than on the older maps, particularly on the new Newkirk Precinct TE map. I retested the old maps too and I'm having no problems on them.
I had to lower my graphics settings to ensure I never drop below 60 FPS on these new maps, which is annoying since the game was running fine in most situations before. Yes, I have the same issue on Newkirk. I had a guy I was matched against have to quit because his framerate on Korhal was unplayable. He said he normally ran it on high smoothly but his FPS was tanking on medium settings.
My framerate hasn't been much better. On Red City it averages about 120FPS at the start of the game. It usually is around 190-200. I usually run it on high using an i5 3570k and a 6950 and have never had these kinds of issues before. Same with Korhal and Newkirk. Really resource intensive and don't run well. When I was offracing as Zerg on Newkirk I had to drop the quality settings. I never had to do that once the last two seasons.
Edit: And another thing, at least for Korhal, it has a different button to leave the game. It is Q rather than N.
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On June 11 2013 20:33 Baum wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2013 18:48 FCReverie wrote:On June 11 2013 15:18 aBstractx wrote:
korhal skyland's top left and bottom right spawns make absolutely no sense. i cant see this working.. ever? bottom left top right i love, but when youre playing pvz and you need to wall, you have to wall both sides with an awkward wall, and then you have to wall off a choke the size of china if you plan on taking a third base. which i never plan on taking lol Why? You can wall the map with 1 pylon and a gate on each side or 1 gate 1 cyber core. Or you can do it with 1 bunker 1 supply depot 1 side 1 barracks 1 depot on the other. Really there is no problem with this map you just complain before you even test it. You probably haven't even seen games on the map. I believe the last TvZ on this map was 2 months ago and it was a CC first which is a huge gamble on this map since I don't think it's possible to have a wall-off on this map going for a gasless 1 rax expand against a 10 pool.
Now that I've played it it is entirely possible to stop a 10 pool going 1 rax expand, so long as you scout it. It is a 1 barracks, 2 depot, 1 bunker investment to stop it. Which is what you were going to build anyway then you can salvage the bunker. If he starts breaking through the rocks make another bunker and salvage that too. All in all it costs maybe 50 minerals to defend deviating from the normal 1 rax gasless expand and also maybe a few workers cut. You will be super far ahead.
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First time I complain about a map but as a casual platinum toss, first impression is that Khoral Island is just bullshit. As a protoss, last couple of seasons' maps have been hard enough to wall against zergs (the race I struggle most against) because of the ramps getting bigger and bigger but with that double opening/ramp access to the natural, it just makes things harder. It's amazing that we got the prism acceleration buff, that sure did help me vs the fast pool followed by a 2 base roach ling I just experienced, when I wasn't even done walling the second entrance to my natural.
I don't veto maps ever because I (foolishly ?) believe they're all balanced and I'm supposed to learn to play all of them in a different way but jeez, it's hard enough to be a protoss lately, do we really need this kind of shit map to make it even harder ? By the the time I see how koreans do it and manage to try and reproduce it, we'll be in next season and map will probably disappear as it should. I don't know about other protoss platinum players (I guess everyone have their own nemesis) but the only race I'm struggling badly against is zerg, not because I think it's imba or anything but most (at my knob level) of the time, the biggest issue is the map setup.... doing a proper wall in vs zerg, one that's also economical is (more than) half the success in my pvz approach...fail to it and the match is over (whereas it doesn't matter that much vs terran and I can still fail but because my macro is bad or my engagements are lousy or my scouting is poor, but at least I get a chance to try and have a fun game). It was already tough with the ramps getting larger and larger in latest season maps (most of my zerg matches I try to build a wall the get busted one way or another, and if i defend it, I usually sacrify my economy for it, just delaying my unavoidable death), and now they start multiplying ramps/access points ? What's next ? 100% Open maps (with an even faster warp prism)?
I quickly browsed through the previous posts and it seems people are complaining about the third too. Just great, maybe in two months I'll get there, so I can realize it's messed up too.
I understand maps should be fine tuned for pros/masters/or even diamonds players...but this kind of map makes me feel no one gives a damn about us casual players,; what's the fun in those ? Lately, I load those and if I see the opponent is zerg, I know that if I don't cheese or do an all-in timing push, i can kiss the game goodbye. PvZ is already repetitive as shit (cheese or all-in or just forget about it, unless you're uber skilled ) and this kind of map makes it even worse.
I'm sure a lot of peeps will find the map great for one reason or another, but as a casual toss that's been struggling against zerg and zerg only because of the wall in/rush issues (all of us aren't pros), this is just irritating and makes me feel this hasn't been balanced at all (or at least not taking everyone into account). I don't mind losing at all, but at least I wanna feel I have a decent chance to win on every match/matchup, and this kind of map doesn't help me feel the game is giving me that opportunity. Maybe it's a first (and wrong) impression, but it is what it is right now, after my first game on it.
Last but not least : why in the name of god do 4 spawn points appear in the preview/loading screen when there's only 2 possible spawn points on the map ? I played a couple of days ago on one of the other new maps and it was already the case. I lost because I scouted the 4 sides of the map (my first play on it) before I found my opponent ( a toss brother), while he was already aware of this, and was cannon rushing me....do the guys who design the maps spend 2 months polishing the rocks and 15 minutes (including a coffee break) thinking about balance testing and fine tuning them ?
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The only new map that only has one set of spawns possible is newkirk... KSI and RC have all spawns enabled, but KSI is cross only
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So after 3 weeks, I am done with these maps. They should remove all maps and add ~10 new maps.
So boring, feel like I played these maps for ~2 years already.
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On June 24 2013 05:35 Dingodile wrote:
So after 3 weeks, I am done with these maps. They should remove all maps and add ~10 new maps.
So boring, feel like I played these maps for ~2 years already.
good that more people start to notice that every map is THE SAME
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On June 24 2013 05:17 Eurekastreet wrote:
1. First time I complain about a map but as a casual platinum toss, first impression is that Khoral Island is just bullshit. As a protoss, last couple of seasons' maps have been hard enough to wall against zergs (the race I struggle most against) because of the ramps getting bigger and bigger but with that double opening/ramp access to the natural, it just makes things harder. It's amazing that we got the prism acceleration buff, that sure did help me vs the fast pool followed by a 2 base roach ling I just experienced, when I wasn't even done walling the second entrance to my natural.
2. I don't veto maps ever because I (foolishly ?) believe they're all balanced and I'm supposed to learn to play all of them in a different way but jeez, it's hard enough to be a protoss lately, do we really need this kind of shit map to make it even harder ? By the the time I see how koreans do it and manage to try and reproduce it, we'll be in next season and map will probably disappear as it should. I don't know about other protoss platinum players (I guess everyone have their own nemesis) but the only race I'm struggling badly against is zerg, not because I think it's imba or anything but most (at my knob level) of the time, the biggest issue is the map setup.... doing a proper wall in vs zerg, one that's also economical is (more than) half the success in my pvz approach...fail to it and the match is over (whereas it doesn't matter that much vs terran and I can still fail but because my macro is bad or my engagements are lousy or my scouting is poor, but at least I get a chance to try and have a fun game). It was already tough with the ramps getting larger and larger in latest season maps (most of my zerg matches I try to build a wall the get busted one way or another, and if i defend it, I usually sacrify my economy for it, just delaying my unavoidable death), and now they start multiplying ramps/access points ? What's next ? 100% Open maps (with an even faster warp prism)?
3. I quickly browsed through the previous posts and it seems people are complaining about the third too. Just great, maybe in two months I'll get there, so I can realize it's messed up too.
4. I understand maps should be fine tuned for pros/masters/or even diamonds players...but this kind of map makes me feel no one gives a damn about us casual players,; what's the fun in those ? Lately, I load those and if I see the opponent is zerg, I know that if I don't cheese or do an all-in timing push, i can kiss the game goodbye. PvZ is already repetitive as shit (cheese or all-in or just forget about it, unless you're uber skilled ) and this kind of map makes it even worse.
5. I'm sure a lot of peeps will find the map great for one reason or another, but as a casual toss that's been struggling against zerg and zerg only because of the wall in/rush issues (all of us aren't pros), this is just irritating and makes me feel this hasn't been balanced at all (or at least not taking everyone into account). I don't mind losing at all, but at least I wanna feel I have a decent chance to win on every match/matchup, and this kind of map doesn't help me feel the game is giving me that opportunity. Maybe it's a first (and wrong) impression, but it is what it is right now, after my first game on it.
6. Last but not least : why in the name of god do 4 spawn points appear in the preview/loading screen when there's only 2 possible spawn points on the map ? I played a couple of days ago on one of the other new maps and it was already the case. I lost because I scouted the 4 sides of the map (my first play on it) before I found my opponent ( a toss brother), while he was already aware of this, and was cannon rushing me....do the guys who design the maps spend 2 months polishing the rocks and 15 minutes (including a coffee break) thinking about balance testing and fine tuning them ?
1. It is one of the easiest walls to make in the game. 1 pylon 1 forge on one side with no space then on the other side do 1 pylon 1 gate but put the pylon or gate 1 hex away from closing it, you can block it with a zealot later. Then you put a cannon in the middle and can shoot the rocks down on the side you sealed making it a double wall. If you scout trouble coming just seal both sides with your buildings instead of one. I don't understand why toss have so much trouble walling, terrans have no problem and their buildings are the same size :/ AND how can you complain about it being hard to wall. Have you ever played antiga, metalopolis, xelnaga caverns etc etc. Those maps the natural was just open space. By those standards these maps are easy.
2.Why do you expect to be allowed to fail something and still win. The Zerg fails to drone at the right time and loses. Should he have lost? Of course. So should you if you don't play properly. Just go into a custom game and figure out how to wall rather than in a match. If you mess up the wall kill it and start again. This has nothing to do with the current map pool, like I said it is actually fairly lenient.
3. It is difficult to take a third on this map. Maybe consider altering your approach for the map? Try a 2 base timing push where you expand as you move out or even try 2 base all in? It is no more difficult on this map to take a 3rd than star station. (It is probably easier)
4. That's because Protoss mechanics, not maps. Nothing you can do about it
5. If it is walling you really think is the problem then like I said just practice it. If still you can't win you are just doing something else wrong.
6. There are 4 spawn locations but it is cross position only.
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Only map that is killing me is red city. It's like one big choke, or a million small chokes. In either case, bad for zerg play. Can't figure out how to play it. Anyone have any ideas?
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On June 11 2013 20:33 Baum wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2013 18:48 FCReverie wrote:On June 11 2013 15:18 aBstractx wrote:
korhal skyland's top left and bottom right spawns make absolutely no sense. i cant see this working.. ever? bottom left top right i love, but when youre playing pvz and you need to wall, you have to wall both sides with an awkward wall, and then you have to wall off a choke the size of china if you plan on taking a third base. which i never plan on taking lol Why? You can wall the map with 1 pylon and a gate on each side or 1 gate 1 cyber core. Or you can do it with 1 bunker 1 supply depot 1 side 1 barracks 1 depot on the other. Really there is no problem with this map you just complain before you even test it. You probably haven't even seen games on the map. I believe the last TvZ on this map was 2 months ago and it was a CC first which is a huge gamble on this map since I don't think it's possible to have a wall-off on this map going for a gasless 1 rax expand against a 10 pool. Then... don't? Why does every map have to be the exact same, people? Seriously...
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EPT
