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On June 05 2013 23:43 HappyTimePANDA wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 23:29 Plansix wrote:On June 05 2013 23:21 HappyTimePANDA wrote:On June 05 2013 04:31 Plansix wrote:On June 05 2013 04:11 HappyTimePANDA wrote:
I don't really understand why they are putting this in. I mean if you lose a lot, you should lose a rank. Sort of makes ladder mean even less than it already does. Now you only have to care about a couple placement matches every season As a said before, there is such at thing as to much negative feed back. A player who is enjoying ranked games and playing can no longer be demoted from a sick losing streak or just being out of practice. Lets take me for example. I was pretty hardcore into SC2, playing 2-3 games after work and a ton on the weekend. Then my significant other's father passed away and I no longer had time to play and practice SC2. Eight months later I went back placed into my old league and was demoted within 20 games. I continued to play for a while with my limited time, but kept having a losing record, risking being demoted further. After a while, I just stopped playing(as I didn't have a lot of free time anyways) and only went back when HotS came out. Did I play less because I got demoted? No, but it didn't help, that is for sure. That is the question people have to ask: How does getting demoted help people get back into the game or stay with the game? The ladder is only good if it doesn't discourage amature players from enjoying their time on the ladder. Or to put it differently, people don't get judged on their weekend pick up basket ball game, they just play. There is unranked play to get back into the swing of things. They may as well remove the leagues since you are matched based on MMR and now you can't even drop a league. It has zero meaning now There wasn't in WoL when I was playing. Unranked is fine, but people still want to compete, advance in their league and try to get promoted. Leagues and ladders only represent you competing against yourself and a small set of people. And you can still drop leagues, but it happens between seasons. People may place into a lower league based on their MMR, but then they have the ability to climb back up. If people want an active and robust ladder, it needs to avoid providing to much negative feed back to the player. People do not enjoy losing and getting demoted right after a loss only tilts people further. If the ladder is more focused on how much people can improve for each season, it provides much better feedback for amateur players where this is their only venue to compete. But to me the thrill of advancing gets so much more meaning when you can also fall. This change seems like the mentality of when everyone gets a participation trophy instead of praising the people who do the best. Now someone can pay to be boosted and they have no fear of dropping out until the next season, not to mention if someone gets lucky in their placement matches and gets into a league above their true skill level. It takes more than a couple of losses to drop a league, if you lose a ton in a row, should ladder not reflect the fact that your skill has dropped? How is that fair to the other people in your league? Now youll never know how good you are compared to them because they might only be at a 15% win/loss ratio but are still in your league
Your right, it is about making sure people feel good when they play on ladder and rewarding them for doing so. The ladder is for all types of players, not just the hard core. There are tons of players out there that do not like dropping rank or being demoted. if the risk of that happening stops them from playing game, then it is bad for SC2 as a whole. You can call it hand holding or catering to casual players, which is 100% correct. But players do not want a game that punishes them for having a loosing streak or taking a break for a few weeks for whatever reason.
Also, people will always game the system and it is pointless to try and stop them. People will always try to boost their MMR and then camp a ladder rank, rather than play for real. It will always happen and you could never be demoted currently not playing. That has not changed.
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I fail to see how this can be a bad change, I know people who have quit the game after getting demoted from Master League.
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I really dislike this change.
For me I go by: Don't fix/change what isn't broken. The ladder was working fine, admittedly you sometimes could meet someone way below or beyond your skill level, but that would almost only happen when there wasn't a suitable opponent to face you. I really don't like this change, it makes the ladder too.. "static" I guess.. The change is just uncalled for in my opinion, and if someone can enlighten me as to why this change is necessary please do.
edit: Ok, I just read through that post, and I actually don't have too big of an issue with this change. You can still get promoted in the middle of the season by just winning. You can still demote yourself in the middle of the season, if you chose to leave your league, and back to the placement matches - that is, if your mmr is low enough to fit in to a lower league.
So I don't see too much trouble with this, only thing is, that it's not as competitive as before, which is definitely a bad thing.
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On June 04 2013 06:58 DavoS wrote:
Eh, not too thrilled. When I first started playing, I was put in Gold. I was not gold league caliber. I lost every game that season and that was against low level silvers after the first few golds roflstomped me. I literally celebrated when I got demoted to silver. Would like to see a way to make placement matches more accurate before they worry about things like demotion
I know what you mean, i played on my friends account once and got him into platinum when he was really like silver/gold league. He told me he just threw games away towards the end just so he could get demoted. Suffice to say he wasn't to happy with me later
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On June 05 2013 23:21 HappyTimePANDA wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2013 04:31 Plansix wrote:On June 05 2013 04:11 HappyTimePANDA wrote:
I don't really understand why they are putting this in. I mean if you lose a lot, you should lose a rank. Sort of makes ladder mean even less than it already does. Now you only have to care about a couple placement matches every season As a said before, there is such at thing as to much negative feed back. A player who is enjoying ranked games and playing can no longer be demoted from a sick losing streak or just being out of practice. Lets take me for example. I was pretty hardcore into SC2, playing 2-3 games after work and a ton on the weekend. Then my significant other's father passed away and I no longer had time to play and practice SC2. Eight months later I went back placed into my old league and was demoted within 20 games. I continued to play for a while with my limited time, but kept having a losing record, risking being demoted further. After a while, I just stopped playing(as I didn't have a lot of free time anyways) and only went back when HotS came out. Did I play less because I got demoted? No, but it didn't help, that is for sure. That is the question people have to ask: How does getting demoted help people get back into the game or stay with the game? The ladder is only good if it doesn't discourage amature players from enjoying their time on the ladder. Or to put it differently, people don't get judged on their weekend pick up basket ball game, they just play. There is unranked play to get back into the swing of things. They may as well remove the leagues since you are matched based on MMR and now you can't even drop a league. It has zero meaning now
I disagree, unranked is what has 0 meaning. there's literally almost no reason to play unranked at all. plansix has a point here
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On June 06 2013 00:28 DreamChaser wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2013 06:58 DavoS wrote:
Eh, not too thrilled. When I first started playing, I was put in Gold. I was not gold league caliber. I lost every game that season and that was against low level silvers after the first few golds roflstomped me. I literally celebrated when I got demoted to silver. Would like to see a way to make placement matches more accurate before they worry about things like demotion I know what you mean, i played on my friends account once and got him into platinum when he was really like silver/gold league. He told me he just threw games away towards the end just so he could get demoted. Suffice to say he wasn't to happy with me later
And yet more examples of people who don't understand how the system works. Your divison DOES NOT MATTER when it comes to matching you up with opponents. Only your mmr. So if you don't get demoted it doesn't mean your opponents will be harder than before this was implemented.
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well unranked was good for trying new things without affecting ranked. Now I guess you could theoretically try new stuff on ranked without fear of dropping too low (I fell from diamond -> silver when switching from protoss to terran, a lot of people might want to avoid that so they stick with one race).
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uhh, ok. so is it harder to get promoted too?
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On June 06 2013 02:49 Lobotomist wrote:
uhh, ok. so is it harder to get promoted too?
I guess so if you lose alot of games. Instead of dropping lower league you are far away being promoted. Long run that just means its going to super hard to get promoted. I guess every system has its negative things.
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United States12252 Posts
On June 06 2013 02:49 Lobotomist wrote:
uhh, ok. so is it harder to get promoted too?
No it's actually easier than before.
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I can imagine Blizzard eventually moving towards awarding ladder points for losses below masters league. Oh you lost? Here have +15 points anyway! You dont have to be sad anymore!
It's the good ol American philosphy of 'good enough is good enough'. I dont know if thats actually a real thing, but it's my translation of what this country stands for lol.
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Then what s the point of the unranked mode now? During my last promotion the level was too hard for me and I was demoted fairly soon after that but that actually made me focus more of my mistakes to stabilise myself first before getting promoted again. If you just get lucky with a winning streak and get promoted without the risk of being demoted, it halts your progress. (i think)
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I actually think this is a good idea to give a more enjoyable experience to casual players. These are the types of things I think we need to put in the game to help Starcraft grow.
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On June 06 2013 05:09 WGT-Baal wrote:
Then what s the point of the unranked mode now? During my last promotion the level was too hard for me and I was demoted fairly soon after that but that actually made me focus more of my mistakes to stabilise myself first before getting promoted again. If you just get lucky with a winning streak and get promoted without the risk of being demoted, it halts your progress. (i think)
Unranked can be used to just mess around and offrace without losses affecting your MMR. I personally use unranked to offrace or just try crazy or really cheesy builds.
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I don't like this change. It is kind of a motivation to get back in a league, after dropping, makes you work harder, and do better to stay in the league you are.
At some point you'll break the wall, that makes you stay in the league, because you are actually worthy being in the league.
I think this change will make leagues lose it's shine.
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On June 06 2013 04:15 ishyishy wrote:
I can imagine Blizzard eventually moving towards awarding ladder points for losses below masters league. Oh you lost? Here have +15 points anyway! You dont have to be sad anymore!
It's the good ol American philosphy of 'good enough is good enough'. I dont know if thats actually a real thing, but it's my translation of what this country stands for lol.
Now you're just going ad absurdum.
This doesn't make it easier to get promoted as your MMR still changes in a similiar manner so if you lose 50 matches in a row in platinum then you will end up facing people in gold/silver on a regular basis and as a response, get placed in one of these leagues after your next set of placement matches.
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A good way to balance out this change would be to lower the amount of people in a given league. Like give the lower leagues a higher percentage of total players, so being promoted might actually mean something
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Can someone clear up my confusion:
you cannot be demoted and... each league is a certain % of players? So if no masters are demoted in a season and you are high diamond... is this a situation where you cannot be promoted because the league is at full capacity?
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United States12252 Posts
On June 23 2013 01:24 Dusker wrote:
Can someone clear up my confusion:
you cannot be demoted and... each league is a certain % of players? So if no masters are demoted in a season and you are high diamond... is this a situation where you cannot be promoted because the league is at full capacity?
No because the populations aren't enforced. There are no hard limits on league population. If your MMR is above the threshold for a particular league, you'll get promoted into that league regardless of other players. What happens between seasons is they evaluate the end-of-season populations and compare them to the targeted values, then make corrections to the boundaries themselves. You may find it more difficult if the bar is raised in the following season, much like how this season a lot of Master players found it hard to get back into Master (if they could at all), but it won't impact your chances for the current season.
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EPT
