You can no longer be demoted during a season!

On June 04 2013 06:59 phuzi0n wrote:
Does that mean GM players can't be demoted either? If so then the first people to make GM would stay GM all season.

On June 04 2013 06:58 DavoS wrote:
Eh, not too thrilled. When I first started playing, I was put in Gold. I was not gold league caliber. I lost every game that season and that was against low level silvers after the first few golds roflstomped me. I literally celebrated when I got demoted to silver. Would like to see a way to make placement matches more accurate before they worry about things like demotion

On June 04 2013 06:59 phuzi0n wrote:
Does that mean GM players can't be demoted either? If so then the first people to make GM would stay GM all season.

On June 04 2013 07:05 Savage88 wrote:
Thats just a terrible idea. Since HotS it feels leagues are getting worse and worse. I was Plat all of WoL and I'm Masters now even I haven't improved at all. It feels like people in Masters are more Plat WoL Level now and if you cannot get demoted it makes it even worse.

On June 04 2013 07:06 MichaelDonovan wrote:
Well now people are gonna be scared shitless to play their placement matches cause they don't know how they did lol.

On June 04 2013 07:08 Blargh wrote:
That doesn't really make sense to me. So, let's assume the top 2% (isn't that what Master league consists of?) make it into Master league at the beginning of the season. Then, as the season progresses, people who WOULD get promotions cannot because the top 2% is already filled. Normally, players would be demoted out of Master league and players would be promoted into Master league. Does this mean that the players who -WOULD HAVE- gotten demoted from Masters will stay in it and be ignored for the "top 2%" while players still get promoted from Diamond, thus making master league technically larger than 2%?

While I don't like to get demoted because master league so kewl man, I disagree with the idea. If you aren't playing master league level, then you probably shouldn't be in Master league. But this might be better for a majority of people. It just doesn't follow the "competitive" style of a ladder.

On June 04 2013 07:08 Blargh wrote:
That doesn't really make sense to me. So, let's assume the top 2% (isn't that what Master league consists of?) make it into Master league at the beginning of the season. Then, as the season progresses, people who WOULD get promotions cannot because the top 2% is already filled. Normally, players would be demoted out of Master league and players would be promoted into Master league. Or is it that the players who -WOULD HAVE- gotten demoted from Masters will stay in it and be ignored for the "top 2%" while players still get promoted from Diamond, thus making master league technically larger than 2%?

While I don't like to get demoted because master league so kewl man, I disagree with the idea. If you aren't playing master league level, then you probably shouldn't be in Master league. But this might be better for a majority of people. It just doesn't follow the "competitive" style of a ladder.

On June 04 2013 07:08 Blargh wrote:
That doesn't really make sense to me. So, let's assume the top 2% (isn't that what Master league consists of?) make it into Master league at the beginning of the season. Then, as the season progresses, people who WOULD get promotions cannot because the top 2% is already filled. Normally, players would be demoted out of Master league and players would be promoted into Master league. Or is it that the players who -WOULD HAVE- gotten demoted from Masters will stay in it and be ignored for the "top 2%" while players still get promoted from Diamond, thus making master league technically larger than 2%?

While I don't like to get demoted because master league so kewl man, I disagree with the idea. If you aren't playing master league level, then you probably shouldn't be in Master league. But this might be better for a majority of people. It just doesn't follow the "competitive" style of a ladder.

On June 04 2013 07:08 Blargh wrote:
That doesn't really make sense to me. So, let's assume the top 2% (isn't that what Master league consists of?) make it into Master league at the beginning of the season. Then, as the season progresses, people who WOULD get promotions cannot because the top 2% is already filled. Normally, players would be demoted out of Master league and players would be promoted into Master league. Does this mean that the players who -WOULD HAVE- gotten demoted from Masters will stay in it and be ignored for the "top 2%" while players still get promoted from Diamond, thus making master league technically larger than 2%?

While I don't like to get demoted because master league so kewl man, I disagree with the idea. If you aren't playing master league level, then you probably shouldn't be in Master league. But this might be better for a majority of people. It just doesn't follow the "competitive" style of a ladder.

On June 04 2013 06:59 phuzi0n wrote:
Does that mean GM players can't be demoted either? If so then the first people to make GM would stay GM all season.

On June 04 2013 07:11 Heyoka wrote:
Not entirely sure why everyone is so mad at this. I'd guess it doesn't effect basically anything, and that the 2% (or whatever it is) of masters will be made up of MMR calculations and not what is displayed, so those who have dropped below will still free up slots. It just won't show on their account.

On June 04 2013 07:00 R1CH wrote:
I'm sure the regular GM dropdown conditions still apply (inactivity etc).

On June 04 2013 06:58 DavoS wrote:
Eh, not too thrilled. When I first started playing, I was put in Gold. I was not gold league caliber. I lost every game that season and that was against low level silvers after the first few golds roflstomped me. I literally celebrated when I got demoted to silver. Would like to see a way to make placement matches more accurate before they worry about things like demotion

On June 04 2013 07:16 tili wrote:


This doesn't really matter for who you are placed against though, because your league has nothing to do with who you are placed against - that is ONLY your MMR.

League is purely a metaphor for your skill quintile (more or less... considering the recent 8% changes to bronze/gold).

Right?

On June 04 2013 07:13 dUTtrOACh wrote:


They're still taking up spaces in the leagues, though. Some people play a couple of games early in the season and then disappear off the face of the Earth. It makes it really annoying for people who are due for a promotion but can't get one until a new league opens up as ranked player numbers hopefully increase.

On June 04 2013 07:17 dUTtrOACh wrote:


It's also the only feedback you get as a determiner of your progression. There are many people who think they aren't improving because the divisions above them are saturated with inactives.

On June 04 2013 07:19 aksfjh wrote:
That's not how league promotions work. There are MMR boundaries that you have to pass with a certain margin of confidence. The boundaries are static and based on some educated prediction of active ladder population distribution. There are no "open/filled spots" in a direct sense, so demotions/promotions happen independent of one another.

On June 04 2013 07:28 jax1492 wrote:
I think this is not good for the ladder, i mean if you have no fear of being demoted why not canon rush 100% of the time?

On June 04 2013 07:30 laegoose wrote:
I hope next season Blizzard will rename Bronze to Gold, Gold to Diamond, Diamond to Ultratripleruby, Masters to Grandmastergosubonjwa. Because people in lower leagues feel uncomfortable!

On June 04 2013 07:29 puzzle7188 wrote:
I thought the unraked league was to help cope with ladder anxiety.

On June 04 2013 06:58 DavoS wrote:
Eh, not too thrilled. When I first started playing, I was put in Gold. I was not gold league caliber. I lost every game that season and that was against low level silvers after the first few golds roflstomped me. I literally celebrated when I got demoted to silver. Would like to see a way to make placement matches more accurate before they worry about things like demotion

On June 04 2013 07:19 aksfjh wrote:

That's not how league promotions work. There are MMR boundaries that you have to pass with a certain margin of confidence. The boundaries are static and based on some educated prediction of active ladder population distribution. There are no "open/filled spots" in a direct sense, so demotions/promotions happen independent of one another.

On June 04 2013 07:11 Heyoka wrote:
Not entirely sure why everyone is so mad at this. I'd guess it doesn't effect basically anything, and that the 2% (or whatever it is) of masters will be made up of MMR calculations and not what is displayed, so those who have dropped below will still free up slots. It just won't show on their account.

On June 04 2013 07:20 Prplppleatr wrote:
first thought - what a crock of shit

second thought - who cares...o wait other than the fact that you now need to be masters to do qualifiers for WCS, so now that requirement is going to be easier to obtain...ie if you get on a good streak and get promoted, but then go on a bad streak (because you didn't deserve it) then you will still be in...but again, who cares that's probably not many people

On June 04 2013 07:36 sva wrote:



People are upset because they think they deserve to be in masters and people they play don't.

I'm suprised people still feel this way, masters is relativly easy to place in for anyone who has basic mechanics.
I wish people would stop caring about their rank and just enjoy the game.

I personally just try to enjoy the little time I have to play just playing the game.

I don't see a problem with this change at all, and if it get's rid of a small amount of ladder anxiety for people I think it's a good thing.

On June 04 2013 07:40 Nicarras wrote:
Isn't this just going to stop people from tanking games to end up in Bronze and then slaughter people leveling up the ladder?

On June 04 2013 07:26 tili wrote:


Are you sure? I thought leagues were based on quintiles. (Bronze = bottom 8%, silver = 20%, gold = 28%...... etc.)

However, if people are worried about inactives, this doesn't make a difference because you can't get demoted out of anything except GM through inactivity.

On June 04 2013 07:39 figq wrote:
Meh. They should just get rid of leagues and only use MMR for all anyway. This just makes leagues even further pointless and MMR even more important.

On June 04 2013 07:26 tili wrote:


Are you sure? I thought leagues were based on quintiles. (Bronze = bottom 8%, silver = 20%, gold = 28%...... etc.)

However, if people are worried about inactives, this doesn't make a difference because you can't get demoted out of anything except GM through inactivity.

On June 04 2013 07:35 dUTtrOACh wrote:


Yes, so if you were wrongfully past this static boundary from the previous season your may get a flukey placement the next season. Since you can't be demoted, how is anybody supposed to take your place in the division you don't deserve to be in? This seems like a system developed for people who do most of their SC2 playing in the first week of the season and go on hiatus until the next.

EDIT: Seems like it would also be good for portrait farmers, since they can tank their MMR while maintaining their displayed rank. Displayed rank is now the only indicator we have of whether our opponent is favored over us; take away its meaning and substance, and what you're left with is a ladder system that's even more of a joke.

On June 04 2013 07:51 aksfjh wrote:
This is already a problem with "1 game per season," so this won't negatively impact them. If anything, it will give an extra margin so they feel like they can play more games and keep their league. At worst, things stay the same, but at best, this will increase ladder activity.

On June 04 2013 07:39 figq wrote:
Meh. They should just get rid of leagues and only use MMR for all anyway. This just makes leagues even further pointless and MMR even more important.

On June 04 2013 07:39 dUTtrOACh wrote:


I think it's the other way around. They feel that people who play only their placement game deserve to steadily decrease in rank. At least, that's the way I feel. Demotions should happen, and they should happen regardless of whether or not you play.

On June 04 2013 07:40 Nicarras wrote:
Isn't this just going to stop people from tanking games to end up in Bronze and then slaughter people leveling up the ladder?

On June 04 2013 07:55 FakeDouble wrote:


People can still do it, but they just can't do it secretly anymore, as in the loading screen will show masters vs bronze, and it will be up to the bronze leaguer to leave the game if he doesn't want to deal with a masters 'smurf'.

Or people can still do it, only it takes a bit of effort to make sure that your mmr is so low at the end of the season that when you do placement, you place into bronze the next season, and make sure that you leave a lot of games if you accidentally get promoted to e.g. silver, so that your mmr stays in the bronze-silver range.

Only difference is that now the league icon is less of an indicator of skill/improvement than it ever was, and more of a shiny feel good badge.
If they're going to use this system there should be an option to see your own true MMR. But make it so that you can't see other people's MMR, so that people don't get anxiety or what not. Only way to gauge if someone's MMR is higher or lower than yours is based on the scorescreen +/- points afterwards. This way people who don't really care can just have fun, and people who are serious about improving can have a more objective measure.

But this horse has been flogged to death before...

On June 04 2013 07:51 ZenithM wrote:
Not really happy about this
I never laddered much in 1v1 but I'm confident I could go to master really quickly. Waiting an entire season to get the promotion seems a bit boring.

On June 04 2013 07:54 dUTtrOACh wrote:


There's no guarantee that it will increase ladder activity, only speculation and hope.

On June 04 2013 07:59 aksfjh wrote:

Indeed, but it's better than nothing. I like to see this action from Blizzard, small tweaks to experiment with game/ladder/competitive psychology.

I dunno why someone would do this....but if you can't be demoted, a person could lose 50 games at the beginning of a season, lowering their MMR but staying at 0 points, then play normally and be #1 for their division.

There's no logical reason people would do this, but i bet they do.

On June 04 2013 06:58 DavoS wrote:
Eh, not too thrilled. When I first started playing, I was put in Gold. I was not gold league caliber. I lost every game that season and that was against low level silvers after the first few golds roflstomped me. I literally celebrated when I got demoted to silver. Would like to see a way to make placement matches more accurate before they worry about things like demotion

On June 04 2013 08:11 Radicalness wrote:
I see both sides of the argument so far. Lots of stuff I hadn't considered but overall this seems like a good change.

I'm sure being demoted is a pretty quick activity killer for players that aren't very committed and play pretty casually. Anything that helps activity and keeps players playing is a plus in my opinion. Only time will tell the effect of the change though.

I don't get what would speak against this?
If you really do suck in your current league, let's say plat, I guess you will be matched vs. gold player then (until you're winrate goes up to about 50%). If you can't beat them regularly there won't be much of a surprise when the demotion comes next season.
Also, the meta in the lower leagues is kinda strange sometimes so it actually might take some time to adjust to the more "normal" games in a higher league.
I'm absolutely fine with this change!

1) Play Placement game.
2) Lose a few hundred games till your MMR is 0 before your bonus pool goes up to far.
3) Play unranked all season.
4) Spend all you bonus pool at the end of the season vs. Bronze leaguers.
5) ???????
6) World Rank 1 Masters.

On June 04 2013 08:21 IamPryda wrote:
And the point of this is what exactly? Maybe next no matter who wins the match it should say victory for both players.....

Wouldn't work because your bonus pts doesnt go as high as actual points of someone that is consistently playing. You can be rank 1 in your division, but in a few days people with higher MMR will climb faster than you.

Hmm what if a lot of people performs really good (ex.in diamond league) that they are qualified to go up masters. But Masters League has limited slots right? So they won't get promoted either? Since no one it Masters is getting demoted that season.

On June 04 2013 08:19 IMplying wrote:
1) Play Placement game.
2) Lose a few hundred games till your MMR is 0 before your bonus pool goes up to far.
3) Play unranked all season.
4) Spend all you bonus pool at the end of the season vs. Bronze leaguers.
5) ???????
6) World Rank 1 Masters.

If you are masters and play bronzes you get like 1 or 0 points per game until your mmr gets back to a decent level.

On June 04 2013 08:50 llIH wrote:
This is a good tool to prevent smurfing indeed

On June 04 2013 08:57 doktorLucifer wrote:
I have some ladder anxiety too, but this is stupid. How will I actually get a good sense of whether I'm ctually improving or not?

On June 04 2013 07:58 Sad[Panda] wrote:


you can still get promotions mid season, its only demotions that wont happen.

essentially you can go up not down

On June 04 2013 08:28 phodacbiet wrote:


Wouldn't work because your bonus pts doesnt go as high as actual points of someone that is consistently playing. You can be rank 1 in your division, but in a few days people with higher MMR will climb faster than you.

On June 04 2013 06:58 DavoS wrote:
Eh, not too thrilled. When I first started playing, I was put in Gold. I was not gold league caliber. I lost every game that season and that was against low level silvers after the first few golds roflstomped me. I literally celebrated when I got demoted to silver. Would like to see a way to make placement matches more accurate before they worry about things like demotion

On June 04 2013 10:33 leova wrote:
this will at least stop those "lose every game on purpose, and quit 5seconds into the others" assholes who try and get demoted to Bronze

On June 04 2013 06:58 DavoS wrote:
Eh, not too thrilled. When I first started playing, I was put in Gold. I was not gold league caliber. I lost every game that season and that was against low level silvers after the first few golds roflstomped me. I literally celebrated when I got demoted to silver. Would like to see a way to make placement matches more accurate before they worry about things like demotion

this will at least stop those "lose every game on purpose, and quit 5seconds into the others" assholes who try and get demoted to Bronze

On June 04 2013 10:33 leova wrote:
this will at least stop those "lose every game on purpose, and quit 5seconds into the others" assholes who try and get demoted to Bronze

On June 04 2013 10:55 ColtCommando wrote:
This really doesn't matter all that much. It takes alot of lost games to actually be dropped from a league. By the time your average ladder player racks up that many loses to warrant demotion the season is probably already ending anyways.

On June 04 2013 11:57 Scarecrow wrote:
Another pointless change by Blizzard after lining up ladder seasons with wcs, I wish they'd actually focus on fixing important issues

On June 04 2013 12:23 RogerX wrote:
If my friend still played, he would've been overjoyed due to his consistent league-fluctuations xD

On June 04 2013 07:08 aksfjh wrote:

Better than what's happening now, where people get to some goal league and just stop playing out of fear of demotion.

On June 04 2013 12:57 arkedos wrote:



And in addition to this, this prevents people from abusing the ladder to bash noobs and stuff.

On June 04 2013 12:57 arkedos wrote:



And in addition to this, this prevents people from abusing the ladder to bash noobs and stuff.

You realise this also means a lot less people get promoted. So if hes in the league below, chances are he won't be moving up for a long time.

On June 04 2013 13:24 cutler wrote:
cool! i think i will reinstall my sc2 again. when will this go live?

On June 04 2013 13:39 playa wrote:
Their solution to too many people getting into Masters is to make rank demotion impossible. Nice.

On June 04 2013 13:43 arkedos wrote:


If you take this assumption from sc2ranks or similair pages then you are wrong because they mix up WoL & HotS

On June 04 2013 14:04 Greenei wrote:
If Blizzard is to be believed this community is a bunch of pussies. 'Oh no I've lost some virtual points and an icon on a virtual ladder, the horror!'. I just can't believe that many people actually are like that. Why do we even care about these people? With such a mindset they will never be able to compete anyways.

On June 04 2013 13:28 dUTtrOACh wrote:


Sounds like you don\'t like the game enough.

EDIT: I don\'t think a fluff change like this will keep you playing for long if you were willing to uninstall in the first place.

On June 04 2013 15:33 ottoottoottootto wrote:
While this may be good for those with ladder anxiety, I am quite worried if leagues will represent skills now....Say you are gold, and you keep losing, you deserve to be bronze but you are still in Gold because of this new system.....isn\'t that a bit weird I guess? So your league will no longer reflect your skill?

On June 04 2013 15:33 ottoottoottootto wrote:
While this may be good for those with ladder anxiety, I am quite worried if leagues will represent skills now....Say you are gold, and you keep losing, you deserve to be bronze but you are still in Gold because of this new system.....isn\'t that a bit weird I guess? So your league will no longer reflect your skill?

On June 04 2013 15:45 AwM wrote:

It seems like it will represent your highest "skill" point so far, but your rank in your division will be a much greater show of your skill. Like, the low ranked-Loss > Win ratio people will be people that you know should be down a rank and the Tops (8/25) will show more.
Though, with how the matchmaking works, if you have the MMR of a low silver as a plat for instance, would you still be going up against plat or would you go against silver players like you should?

On June 04 2013 16:56 Topdoller wrote:
The league should reflect your skill level, when it stops doing this it becomes a joke system so i personally don't like this at all. As a player i want to know my skill level so if i am Gold standard i play in Gold.

On June 04 2013 17:00 Raven_zero300 wrote:
News Flash: B.net ladder stopped mattering when they removed losses. The inability to be demoted in a season just makes the ladder even more of a joke.

Blizzard continues to disappoint.

On June 04 2013 17:10 Koshi wrote:
I like it. The next step should be to try and make divisions a bit more competitive on the lower levels. Even in Masters you still have a gazillion people with 0-5 games in each division. Kinda silly.
I would prefer division with 1000 people or something. I don't know.

But I like this. Fear of demotion should be removed for the people that care about it.

On June 04 2013 17:10 Koshi wrote:
I like it. The next step should be to try and make divisions a bit more competitive on the lower levels. Even in Masters you still have a gazillion people with 0-5 games in each division. Kinda silly.
I would prefer division with 1000 people or something. I don't know.

But I like this. Fear of demotion should be removed for the people that care about it.

On June 04 2013 07:05 Savage88 wrote:
Thats just a terrible idea. Since HotS it feels leagues are getting worse and worse. I was Plat all of WoL and I'm Masters now even I haven't improved at all. It feels like people in Masters are more Plat WoL Level now and if you cannot get demoted it makes it even worse.

On June 04 2013 19:24 kaluro wrote:


If you play terran I can agree to the phenomenon.
I am a top 25 masters (1k+ points), and literally 9 out of 10 terrans I meet, were low/mid diamond before HotS, and are top 25 masters now. They also agree they havent increased in skill, but widow mines and hellbats happened.

This isn't a balance complaint thread, this is an accumulation of observations.

On June 04 2013 19:27 Koshi wrote:

Let's make a bet.
If what you just claimed is true I get permabanned.
If what you just claimed is data pulled straight out of your ass, not even close to the truth, you get permabanned.

On June 04 2013 19:27 Koshi wrote:

Let's make a bet.
If what you just claimed is true I get permabanned.
If what you just claimed is data pulled straight out of your ass, not even close to the truth, you get permabanned.

On June 04 2013 19:42 kaluro wrote:


Okay I took the 3 most recent terrans I fought on ladder, for you:

+ Show Spoiler +

Click the spoiler for the image .

On June 04 2013 19:46 Koshi wrote:

Hehe. When I am home I can check your profile and opponents. It seems it will be interesting.

On June 04 2013 19:44 gaymon wrote:
"and are top 25 masters now"

proceeds to post 3 non top 25 masters Kappa

On June 04 2013 19:42 kaluro wrote:


Okay I took the 3 most recent terrans I fought on ladder, for you:

+ Show Spoiler +

Click the spoiler for the image .