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On June 01 2013 03:50 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 03:37 Toadvine wrote:On June 01 2013 03:25 Xacez wrote:
Why not attempt a buff to Dark Templars instead? Don't even try man, you'll open the floodgates of Terran tears, and let me tell you, those things do not close easily. Honestly though, I'd take a major nerf to Colossus if I got DTs from Templar Archives back. I don't mind Dark Shrine if it only had a fucking upgrade attached to it. I hate empty buildings without buttons or functions. Even the fucking supply depot has a button I can push!
Blink? double cloaking? Hide? lol
btw DT won't need new 'skill' upgrade (maybe buffing stat upgrade but I personally think it's already strong in dmg) until the next expansion. Maybe upgrades for Dark Archon! Oh I miss this red Archon too 
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On June 01 2013 11:07 SsDrKosS wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 03:50 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 01 2013 03:37 Toadvine wrote:On June 01 2013 03:25 Xacez wrote:
Why not attempt a buff to Dark Templars instead? Don't even try man, you'll open the floodgates of Terran tears, and let me tell you, those things do not close easily. Honestly though, I'd take a major nerf to Colossus if I got DTs from Templar Archives back. I don't mind Dark Shrine if it only had a fucking upgrade attached to it. I hate empty buildings without buttons or functions. Even the fucking supply depot has a button I can push! Blink? double cloaking? Hide? lol btw DT won't need new 'skill' upgrade (maybe buffing stat upgrade but I personally think it's already strong in dmg) until the next expansion. Maybe upgrades for Dark Archon! Oh I miss this red Archon too
give blink to DT's!!! =D
jk
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On June 01 2013 11:20 rpgalon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 11:07 SsDrKosS wrote:On June 01 2013 03:50 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 01 2013 03:37 Toadvine wrote:On June 01 2013 03:25 Xacez wrote:
Why not attempt a buff to Dark Templars instead? Don't even try man, you'll open the floodgates of Terran tears, and let me tell you, those things do not close easily. Honestly though, I'd take a major nerf to Colossus if I got DTs from Templar Archives back. I don't mind Dark Shrine if it only had a fucking upgrade attached to it. I hate empty buildings without buttons or functions. Even the fucking supply depot has a button I can push! Blink? double cloaking? Hide? lol btw DT won't need new 'skill' upgrade (maybe buffing stat upgrade but I personally think it's already strong in dmg) until the next expansion. Maybe upgrades for Dark Archon! Oh I miss this red Archon too give blink to DT's!!! =D jk
Give them Void Prison. Shouldn't be a problem.
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Blizzard needs to be careful with these changes. Remember the "zerg was underperforming at the highest level so we give queens more range"? It ruined the balance.
The game is so balanced atm (http://i.imgur.com/9orDwMj.png) so I just hope blizzard doesn't change things.
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Btw correct me if wrong, but isn't this yet another sign of blizzard wanting to make mech more viable vs toss? (Read: Nerfing mech vs toss). Just had a game vs toss where he researched speed prisms, and just warped in everywhere units, add that toss has an enormous mobility advantage over mech, and despite that I was way ahead of him, his speed prisms simply ruined the day for me. Especially considering speedprisms are superior to boosting medivacs to get over missile turrets.
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United Kingdom20275 Posts
3.375 vs 4.25 speed. Warp prism has more health but i dont know how you can say speed prisms are better for getting over missile turrets
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Guys, guys, guys! What IF they gave the warp prism a new ability that allowed it to temporarilly have increased speed, say for 8 seconds, or even to warp through space and time, almost like a blink, . BUT this ability didn't need to be upgraded AND it came with a cool down. We could call this ability, oh, let's call it Warp Prism Warp. Or Warp Prism Boost.
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Crazy stuff. When Blizzard introduces speedmedivacs without a disadvantage I always hoped they would do similar things for protoss, that is no buffs to aoe etc but to more aggressive non allin play, harassment and such. I really like the direction they are going for.
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warp prism with warp speed.
teleports to a different location with max range of 8.
cool down of 60 sec
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Or we could make the blink upgrade apply to the prism !
:p
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On June 01 2013 22:53 Cyro wrote:
3.375 vs 4.25 speed. Warp prism has more health but i dont know how you can say speed prisms are better for getting over missile turrets
Fairly simple math: Check how long a medivac/prism survives against a certain amount of incoming dps, and then check how much distance they can transverse in that time:
Medivac: t = 150 / dps
Prism: t = 200 / dps
Distance:
Medivac: s = t * 4.25
Prism: s = t * 3.375
->
Medivac: s = 637.5 / dps
Prism: s = 675 / dps
Granted medivac has +1 armor that I am not taking into account here. Then it probably gets fairly close, medivac might get slightly ahead. But then prism is constant at that speed.
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On June 02 2013 06:20 Sissors wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 22:53 Cyro wrote:
3.375 vs 4.25 speed. Warp prism has more health but i dont know how you can say speed prisms are better for getting over missile turrets Fairly simple math: Check how long a medivac/prism survives against a certain amount of incoming dps, and then check how much distance they can transverse in that time: Medivac: t = 150 / dps Prism: t = 200 / dps Distance: Medivac: s = t * 4.25 Prism: s = t * 3.375 -> Medivac: s = 637.5 / dps Prism: s = 675 / dps Granted medivac has +1 armor that I am not taking into account here. Then it probably gets fairly close, medivac might get slightly ahead. But then prism is constant at that speed.
so...
> distance = better for getting over missile turrets....
guess the fact that the dps is not constant and it changes depending on where you are doesn't count.
anyway, can't argue with math... lol
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On June 01 2013 18:28 Snowbear wrote:
Blizzard needs to be careful with these changes. Remember the "zerg was underperforming at the highest level so we give queens more range"? It ruined the balance.
The game is so balanced atm (http://i.imgur.com/9orDwMj.png) so I just hope blizzard doesn't change things.
For esport in entertainment business, games must be fun before being balanced.
After they are officially fun, Blizzard can balance the game without ruining the fun.
EDIT : And comments like this makes me hope that this patch will be released.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/9165886752?page=6#115
Would make all PvX MU so more fun !
Also, did anyone else notice more Protoss harassment on ladder since this blizzard announcement ? A lot of protoss i play against are doing multipronged attack with warpprism and speedprisms.
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If protoss is to receive buffs, they absolutely should buff things like these to enable more aggressive play and harassment for protoss, I like it.
About the math done by rpgalon:
I think you are missing that turrets do way more dps vs air than a single canon. So if you indeed try to rely only on a turret to kill a prism with speed, you need to compare the dps of a turret vs the hp of the prism and vice versa the dps of a canon vs the hp of a medivac, both times factoring in speed ofc.
But since a medivac can boost over a canon, unload all units and get out of range and the fact that errans have a lot of medivacs because they are part of their regular army, I'm not sure you should rely on turrets only to be safe vs drops. So the solution is like always having units in position and not relying on a single turret to stop everything, like a single canon can't stop a full drop on it's own. But it can help for sure. Unless you want to play mech and create a full turret line around your base but even then I think keeping 2-3 tanks or hellbats back and having 1-2 vikings patrouling in the air until you push out is the far better solution. Until mech pushes out not all units are needed at the front if you have a nice sieged up position + bunkers to defend the front.
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On June 01 2013 22:53 Cyro wrote:
3.375 vs 4.25 speed. Warp prism has more health but i dont know how you can say speed prisms are better for getting over missile turrets
Warp Prisms can be Hallucinated. Which will make defending against them extra hard. Terrans will be like, "Aw crap which one of these 5 drops is real?"
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On June 02 2013 07:19 GinDo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 22:53 Cyro wrote:
3.375 vs 4.25 speed. Warp prism has more health but i dont know how you can say speed prisms are better for getting over missile turrets Warp Prisms can be Hallucinated. Which will make defending against them extra hard. Terrans will be like, "Aw crap which one of these 5 drops is real?"
Can hallucinated prisms go into warp mode? I seriously don't know but if they can't that would be a decent way to figure it out.
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On June 02 2013 06:37 rpgalon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2013 06:20 Sissors wrote:On June 01 2013 22:53 Cyro wrote:
3.375 vs 4.25 speed. Warp prism has more health but i dont know how you can say speed prisms are better for getting over missile turrets Fairly simple math: Check how long a medivac/prism survives against a certain amount of incoming dps, and then check how much distance they can transverse in that time: Medivac: t = 150 / dps Prism: t = 200 / dps Distance: Medivac: s = t * 4.25 Prism: s = t * 3.375 -> Medivac: s = 637.5 / dps Prism: s = 675 / dps Granted medivac has +1 armor that I am not taking into account here. Then it probably gets fairly close, medivac might get slightly ahead. But then prism is constant at that speed. so... > distance = better for getting over missile turrets.... guess the fact that the dps is not constant and it changes depending on where you are doesn't count. anyway, can't argue with math... lol
And how exactly is that relevant for the difference between medivacs and warp prisms? There is absolutely no reason to assume that would make a difference between them.
Really irritating those people who doubt simple math. SC2 = math. Of course it is important to correctly apply it, but when looking at speed prism vs boosted medivac, and then which one is more effective vs static defense it is really simple math.
About the math done by rpgalon:
I think you are missing that turrets do way more dps vs air than a single canon. So if you indeed try to rely only on a turret to kill a prism with speed, you need to compare the dps of a turret vs the hp of the prism and vice versa the dps of a canon vs the hp of a medivac, both times factoring in speed ofc.
I think you meant me, and nop I don't. I was comparing speed prisms with speedvacs. Not missile turrets with photon cannons. Actually the only thing I did was make a simple statement, which was doubted, so I did some math to show it, the actual point I was making is that speedprisms without upgrades are yet another nerf to mech vs toss
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On June 02 2013 06:48 Insoleet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 18:28 Snowbear wrote:
Blizzard needs to be careful with these changes. Remember the "zerg was underperforming at the highest level so we give queens more range"? It ruined the balance.
The game is so balanced atm (http://i.imgur.com/9orDwMj.png) so I just hope blizzard doesn't change things. For esport in entertainment business, games must be fun before being balanced. After they are officially fun, Blizzard can balance the game without ruining the fun. EDIT : And comments like this makes me hope that this patch will be released. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/9165886752?page=6#115Would make all PvX MU so more fun ! Also, did anyone else notice more Protoss harassment on ladder since this blizzard announcement ? A lot of protoss i play against are doing multipronged attack with warpprism and speedprisms.
Thanks for that link. That was interesting reading. It sounds good. Perhaps even better than I thought. Not only will P players will the skill-set revel in the buff, but it will be an incentive for other P players to expand and develop their own skill set. This will also have ripple effects on T and Z players, too. And, will deepen HOTS further, making it more entertaining to play and watch.
I do hope the change goes ahead, even if in (somewhat) attenuated form.
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On June 01 2013 11:07 SsDrKosS wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2013 03:50 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 01 2013 03:37 Toadvine wrote:On June 01 2013 03:25 Xacez wrote:
Why not attempt a buff to Dark Templars instead? Don't even try man, you'll open the floodgates of Terran tears, and let me tell you, those things do not close easily. Honestly though, I'd take a major nerf to Colossus if I got DTs from Templar Archives back. I don't mind Dark Shrine if it only had a fucking upgrade attached to it. I hate empty buildings without buttons or functions. Even the fucking supply depot has a button I can push! Blink? double cloaking? Hide? lol btw DT won't need new 'skill' upgrade (maybe buffing stat upgrade but I personally think it's already strong in dmg) until the next expansion. Maybe upgrades for Dark Archon! Oh I miss this red Archon too
dt speed upgrade!
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On June 01 2013 22:53 Cyro wrote:
3.375 vs 4.25 speed. Warp prism has more health but i dont know how you can say speed prisms are better for getting over missile turrets
Mutalisks got changed from 3.75 speed to 4.0 and this is one of the reasons why they became such a pain in the rear in ZvZ ... because they could always run away from stuff on the ground easily (plus the added regeneration). This speed change is bigger, so the impact for it should be relatively bigger. Immortal drop play to snipe key buildings in an opponents base is going to be strong ... especially as a Zerg you will NEED anti air defense around your vital tech buildings or see them die to this, but the potential for "yoyo drop play" switching between main and third base is just as big as it is for Hellbat drops (and that isnt a good addition to the game either).
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EPT
