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Warp prism speed buff, test map. 5.28.2013 - Page 17

Forum Index > SC2 General
1346 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 15 16 17 18 19 68 Next
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 28 2013 20:05 GMT
#321
On May 29 2013 05:03 vhapter wrote:
Good, now please make muta speed/regen an actual upgrade.

Nah, that's fine. Now my warp prism can get their and snipe the spire with zealots before it completes. #outsidethebox
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
c0sm0naut
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1229 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-28 20:11:14
May 28 2013 20:05 GMT
#322
On May 29 2013 05:00 Pazuzu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 04:54 c0sm0naut wrote:
if they want to make P a more competitive race, nerf spire transitions by making mutas require an upgrade before the pin you in your base or win the game outright with their speed/regen just because you only have 1 sg and lost phoenixes... and decrease the cost of storm by 50/50

instead they want P to play the same way they alawys do = gimmicks. i have played random for a long time now, and Protoss is not difficult to play. i often win by just randomly attacking at +1 with whatever i have vs Z. when they make enough units to kill mine, i just recall. i make sneak bases constantly, in every matchup. recall works on probes == saves my economy. dt warp in == defends far nexus. Protoss is extremely strong and players are simply not taking full advantage of it on ladder. i just think this warp prism thing will lead to all ins 95% of the time, especially against terran. why don't they give us a list of options, we vote for the one we like the most, then we test it. i hate testing the random crap they come up with because i know it's not a good solution before i even try it and confirm my beliefs..


Sorry but this is laughable. An upgrade needed for mutas? that's not a buff to protoss that will just mess up zerg across the board...not really relavent here


unless you are ranked higher than me as random, which you're not (because i can tell instantly - ZERG), i dont want to hear how buying a cheap upgrade would make mutas bad.. I play random and am top 8 or top 25 masters depending on how much time i have to play per week
last time i checked, mutalisk were dominating ZvZ and 8-10 gas geyser muta switches are killing top level protoss even when they seem to be prepared for them. I'm not trying to call you out, but an upgrade for mutas,e ven if it's short and very cheap might be exactly what needs to happen..

what's laughable, is giving protoss a speed drop upgrade to help them drop zealots into super cheap spore/spine forests in PvZ late game easier and making me lose TvP's constantly because warp prisms are extremely strong in early pvt especially if you consider all of the blind "better have it's" in this matchup like missile turrets and bunkers in numbers of 2-3 if you're unsure what P is doing..
Greendotz
Profile Joined October 2011
United Kingdom2053 Posts
May 28 2013 20:06 GMT
#323
I really really really hope this leads to colossus drops been a viable harassment tactic :O
StaplerPhone
Profile Joined March 2011
United States813 Posts
May 28 2013 20:07 GMT
#324
HerO is going to wreck face if this goes through (:
NaDa | MC | HerO | DeMusliM | TaeJa | viOLet
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
May 28 2013 20:07 GMT
#325
On May 29 2013 05:04 p14c wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 04:53 Plansix wrote:
On May 29 2013 04:50 p14c wrote:
On May 29 2013 04:41 SC2ShoWTimE wrote:
On May 29 2013 04:26 sitromit wrote:
On May 29 2013 04:17 SC2ShoWTimE wrote:
sigh... some people are just terrible at understanding statistics.

when one race is underperforming then you wont necessarily see that by looking at winrates. what you also need to look at is the amount of players of every race that get far in tournaments. it is obvious when there are only 2-3 players of a certain race in the ro16 that they will perform decently and push the winrate because they are most likely the best players of their respective race while there are a couple of mediocre players of the other races.

We just had a foreign Protoss get 2nd place in a tournament with several Korean players. At MLG top 4 was 2 Terrans, 1 Zerg and 1 Protoss. At IEM we had 2 Terrans and 2 Protoss in Top 4, Protoss got 2nd. Protoss has a very good chance of winning WCS NA. Protoss is dominating in Proleague.

So just because there weren't too many Protoss in the top 8 of WCS KR and EU, when WCS KR Code S had very few Protoss to begin with because of the carry over from last season of WoL, that means Protoss doesn't go far in tournaments?


...where did i say that?
i just explained that winrates alone dont give any conclusion on how a race is doing. also, the metagame of hots is evolving constantly so pointing out tournaments like iem or mlg is pretty pointless.

David Kim is the one pointing out tournaments as an excuse for buffing Protoss. He said that at high level play Protoss doesn't perfom as it should, for normal play the winrates are totally fine.


So you agree that Protoss should be buffed to improve the highest level of play, and that normal level play shouldn't be a huge factor in balance. Glad we could clear that up.

R U kidding me? Imagine a medivac with warping ability. It's totally game breaking. He should put the Shuttle back in the game. Warping an entire army it's not harassing...


You can't warp in an entire army. You can't fit 130 supply in the warp in area. Also, that never happens unless the protoss gets way to far ahead and players don't trade armies.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Fluid
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada136 Posts
May 28 2013 20:09 GMT
#326
Here's a better idea:
-Warp Prism is now built from Stargate
-Gravitic drive upgrade moved to Cybernetics Core
- Reavers can now be built from Robotics Facility (Requires Robotics Bay)

(okay we all know that last item will never be implemented)
JacobNX01a
Profile Joined November 2012
United States65 Posts
May 28 2013 20:10 GMT
#327
I like the idea of giving Protoss more harass options, but I feel like zerg is being neglected in the dropping department.
Get outta here S.T.A.L.K.E.R.!!!!!
peidongyang
Profile Joined January 2009
Canada2084 Posts
May 28 2013 20:11 GMT
#328
balance aside, this would greatly affect the excitement in pvp
the throws never bothered me anyway
dreamsmasher
Profile Joined November 2010
816 Posts
May 28 2013 20:12 GMT
#329
On May 29 2013 05:09 Fluid wrote:
Here's a better idea:
-Warp Prism is now built from Stargate
-Gravitic drive upgrade moved to Cybernetics Core
- Reavers can now be built from Robotics Facility (Requires Robotics Bay)

(okay we all know that last item will never be implemented)


nah keep it on robo, i would like robo to contain one harassment option.
ReMinD_
Profile Joined May 2013
Croatia846 Posts
May 28 2013 20:12 GMT
#330
I'm a fresh Zerg player and watching pro games I feel like Toss does need a miniscule buff or a change to harassment options, but Warp Prism speed doesn't seem like the right choice. We don't want every race to become like Terran. Next thing you know, Zerg becomes too weak. Do we buff Overlord drops next?

Blizzard needs to find the middle ground. A change that won't affect protoss all-ins and maxed out army.
Parting: Well, even I can make better maps than these.
CamoPillbox
Profile Joined April 2012
Czech Republic229 Posts
May 28 2013 20:13 GMT
#331
damn even faster dt drop expand when i dying simply to it as terran....
Czech Terran(Hots) player
summerloud
Profile Joined March 2010
Austria1201 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-28 20:14:58
May 28 2013 20:13 GMT
#332
id prefer if they just increased warp prism speed overall, both upgraded and unupgraded, to make for more harass in late game

the way they are doing it now i expect they just make allins stronger without affecting the game much past midgame

other possibilities id fancy are

-decrease cost to 100min/1supply
or
-increase cargo slots
c0sm0naut
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1229 Posts
May 28 2013 20:14 GMT
#333
On May 29 2013 05:13 CamoPillbox wrote:
damn even faster dt drop expand when i dying simply to it as terran....



*scan*

*pew pew pew*

*scoop*

F10+N
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
May 28 2013 20:14 GMT
#334
On May 29 2013 05:10 JacobNX01a wrote:
I like the idea of giving Protoss more harass options, but I feel like zerg is being neglected in the dropping department.


Zerg has insanely cheap, easily massable units which can drop, not sure what you're saying there.
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
Fig
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1324 Posts
May 28 2013 20:14 GMT
#335
On May 29 2013 04:44 Prog455 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 04:33 dirtydurb82 wrote:

A-BomB Ireland. May 29 2013 02:34. Posts 68 PM Profile Quote #
I APPROVELast edit: 2013-05-29 02:35:14
A-BOMB on http://www.justin.tv/abombtv (high level protoss stream)


If the goal is high-level, dynamic play, this is a good buff. I thought Toss were doing pretty well, but I guess the numbers don't lie.


Do you really think that this is actually going to change any part of Protoss play that is not an all-in? At the moment this buff cost 100/100 and can be upgraded from a building you need no matter what if you want Colossus. This is a stupid buff, because Robotic Facility is already occupied with building Observers, Immortals and Colossi. If this upgrade did actually make a difference in lategame it would have been used already.

You know, if you think hard enough about any change, you'll be able to come up with how it can make an all-in better. Other races just do this to the extreme when thinking about toss.

"Making a protoss unit faster that tosses never get more than 2 of in any given game will make all of their all-ins way too good!"

"Oh man! That unit that does damage will just add to the death ball! Protoss can't have that!"

"You know that DT warp prism build?! That will hit so much earlier because somehow a faster warp prism means the dark shrine finishes faster too!"

Instead of trying so hard to make up doomsday scenarios, just play the custom map and see if the change makes the game more dynamic. If it does, then mission accomplished. It's not like balance can't continue to be adjusted from there.
Can't elope with my cantaloupe
IcedBacon
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada906 Posts
May 28 2013 20:14 GMT
#336
I don't like it, Protoss already has so many harass options available to them, they just don't multitask as well as the top Terrans and Zergs right now. DTs, warp ins all around the map, oracles, storm drops... All of those can be so powerful.
"I went Zerg because Artosis is a douchebag." -IdrA
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-28 20:18:49
May 28 2013 20:15 GMT
#337
On May 29 2013 04:58 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:
everything should just get a speed boost. Marines should have their stim movement speed by default, ling speed should be default and charge lot speed should be default.

Find a suitable tech and economy level that people enjoy and anchor the game around that. It's not so preposterous, by the way, creating an enjoyable competitive game has always involved zooming in on a tiny subset of acceptable play. Yes, it will reduce strategy choice, but people will be happy watching the same thing over and over again as long as it's exciting and rewards skill (see tennis).

(slippery slope arguments, I know...)
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
SolarJto
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States260 Posts
May 28 2013 20:16 GMT
#338
I think its a good choice, since terran has medivac boosts as well
-University of New Mexico CSL Coordinator-
.Rogueonerfed.
Profile Joined June 2012
Hungary63 Posts
May 28 2013 20:17 GMT
#339
Would be interesting,but we don't need Warp Prisms moving at Warp speed considering they only cost 200 minerals and don't have to risk losing the units inside them.
*,..,*
Glorfindel21
Profile Joined October 2012
France51 Posts
May 28 2013 20:18 GMT
#340
Well people see only all-ins on this thread.

What kind of all in would you expect from a protoss with a prism ?
-dt-fast prism ? Not as fast as a sneaky pylon
-7 gate prism ? Still has to wait for the whole army
-any kind of all in with a prism ONLY from the robo is extremely expensive (since it's like having a moving pylon for triple the price at least)
-will not grant any more critical micro ability than before (still have to be parting to micro it perfectly)

So what will it be ? Don't forget that is only a pylon. Once you scout the tech of the toss player (in this case robo) you just prepare your mapcontrol in your base (easy since no anti-overlord) or build supplies in terran (in your base).

So in fact it will probably encourage some weird micro abuses involving immortals probably, but it will for sure motivate tosses to harass in late game.

You say toss already has strong harass options (i'm zerg) :
-dt is still coinflip and you never see any dt rush in pro matches except in some rare pvps (in which it's an all-in)
-phoenix is good
-prism is not really used at all, and when it is, it's to be destroyed most of the times after one round of warp. You can't afford a robo producing only WP in toss or you die (not even counting the chronos)
-rest is MSC harass that is indeed very efficient
-oracle (less and less used)

So you have
-phoenixes (air)
-oracle (air)
-Wp (drop)
-MSC (ground)

Truth is that Kim tries to negate the infamous "deathball" effect as a global strategy used by toss. As he says, he wants to see smaller fights, involving multitask, micro. Well : he wants more skill than a A vs A situation where a whole game is decided on a player compo more than on a players micro (as toss, all you have to do with classical deathball is to storm in short).
Good idea.
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