On May 13 2013 03:11 JDI1 wrote: Having been in the CS 1.6 scene and knowing a bit about the LoL scene, gotta say SC nerds are quite a bit more insecure and sensitive to internet insults. We live in a world where drama makes the most money, not being nice. Most people who say GLHF and GG don't mean it anyway - they say it cause it's the norm they're tring to fit in.
Mots people that say "good morning" don't really care for how good a morning you might have. Etiquette is important in the world of adults. Only children and the socially retarded don't understand this. Idra is not a child.
This etiquette is horrible, I would much rather have someone tell me their true feelings that they wish me cancer and die compared to this false shit "good morning", with a fakeass smile. World of adults is really insane. Children are more sane then grown ups, took me a long time to finally wake up and actually see this. They say things right out, and its ME who goes insane in my mind at take offense instead of actually understanding their question and statements. We are all a bunch of sick fucks, and only admitting how insane we are, can we start to actually work on it. Like alcoholics do, they actually stop denying their problem, and admit they are sick.
This post has nothing to do with Idra, and I am sorry for that, but I have to respond to this post!
As far as falseness goes I can relate, kids have an inability to "fake" (at least at really young ages). Hence their uprightness. In their aspect of the world they are saying exactly what seems right at the moment, and that amazes me! As a father of a 2 year old I get amazed every day! And quite easily I must admit. But by no means is it because she wishes cancer upon me when not getting candy 8 oclock on a Monday morning. Kids do not do those kind of things unless they are taught to do it, and that's no better than being taught to say "false shit, good mornings", as you call it. If you are offended by what kids say, because they haven't had the chance to develop social skills yet, then I agree with you, that's an issue you will have to work on. But if the same thing happens when you are talking to a 30 year old, then you should be worried about that persons ability to develop as a person.
Being able to speak your mind (like a child if you will) is a blessing. But knowing when to do it is where the magic lies. Being smart and saying the right things at the right times is about adaptation. You may charge this with negativity if you like, but saying it's a sickness is your own problem and your own sickness to deal with. Good luck with that.
On May 13 2013 03:11 JDI1 wrote: Having been in the CS 1.6 scene and knowing a bit about the LoL scene, gotta say SC nerds are quite a bit more insecure and sensitive to internet insults. We live in a world where drama makes the most money, not being nice. Most people who say GLHF and GG don't mean it anyway - they say it cause it's the norm they're tring to fit in.
Mots people that say "good morning" don't really care for how good a morning you might have. Etiquette is important in the world of adults. Only children and the socially retarded don't understand this. Idra is not a child.
This etiquette is horrible, I would much rather have someone tell me their true feelings that they wish me cancer and die compared to this false shit "good morning", with a fakeass smile. World of adults is really insane. Children are more sane then grown ups, took me a long time to finally wake up and actually see this. They say things right out, and its ME who goes insane in my mind at take offense instead of actually understanding their question and statements. We are all a bunch of sick fucks, and only admitting how insane we are, can we start to actually work on it. Like alcoholics do, they actually stop denying their problem, and admit they are sick.
I know, i was one of the "tell it how it is" type of guys and hated people that were "fake". Then i grew up, and i'm not talking about chronological age. Being polite and having decent etiquette (this can be wildly different depending on the place) is actually what makes society work.
On May 13 2013 06:24 farnham wrote: idra as a caster? thats the best news I have heard in a while. he is awesome as a caster.
if i were him, id take all the dough i made as a progamer and invest it into my education.
geez if you have the dedication to sit and play sc 12 hours a day, get and engineer's degree or some shit like that. Then i'd be legit when I say someone's build is bad
On May 13 2013 05:47 Hey Sean. wrote: If people here think simple polite greetings like "Good Morning" is being fake, then you really need to take a look at yourself. If you really think people are being fake when they're just being normal human beings, it's because you're projecting your own ideas onto them. Using phrases like "the world of adults" does not make your ideas any more valid, it just makes you immature. Yes, you change the way you act depending on who you're around, that's just how social hierarchies work. That doesn't mean you're being fake though.
As far as actual insults go: You're a moron/idiot/whatever = Fine Get raped/I hope you get cancer = Not fine
Cancer/rape etc effect lots of people and their families, it causes massive amounts of harm to so many people wishing it on someone else is disgusting.People who do use those sorts of insults seriously need to think about the harm those things do before lashing out. "I don't mean it though" then don't say that.
You're an idiot is fine because being an idiot isn't particularly harmful and it's of my opinion that it doesn't ruin as many lives as cancer and whatever else.
you're right to some extent, but wishing someone cancer doesn't really increase the chance of them actually getting cancer does it. the only thing that is shows that you're a shitty person/are at the moment in an idiotic rage
so on one hand childish, shitty mannered people can talk all the shit they want, it doesn't effect you at all, on the other hand this will help everyone get a clearer look at that person. in this sense grack only improved the situation;) he finally pushed it too far. the correct reaction is the middle road: you shouldn't be upset about his bad manners, because who cares what he thinks, and you shouldn't be upset about EG because they are a fucking brand and they have to protect their brand, all the people here who don't understand that probably never ever worked for their own money.
what's really sickening though that idiots here try to suggest things like wishing someone cancer is perfectly normal just because Eyedra did it, EG sucks because they don't want to be associated with such, it should be allowed and you shouldn't even raise an eyebrow because if a balding, anger filled, shitty mannered, mediocre player does it then it's most certainly a heroic deed!!!! people
On May 13 2013 05:08 Defacer wrote: The irony in all this is that IdrA complains that the community doesn't care about results, and only cares about pandering and 'entertainment.'
A more accurate statement is that competition IS entertainment, but there are countless times that IdrA refused to compete and fight, not only for his fans but for himself.
That's not accurate at all. If it was, his viewership wouldn't be consistently in the Top 3.
Whether you agree with the sentiment or not, there's is absolutely no denying that competitive players get absolutely crappy viewer numbers compared to the entertainers.
I guess what I'm getting at is that for idra to criticize the community for valuing pandering over competition, when he himself didn't treat competition seriously or understand how competition can be entertaining, made him part of the problem.
I don't see how. For one, his career started at the extreme end of competition...when streaming didn't exist and the community barely mattered.
And for another, how can you possibly call IdrA "part of the problem"? If he wasn't around, viewers would just jump to people like Husky, Day9, or Destiny. And if those personalities weren't around, those people simply wouldn't watch anyone. Entertainers can't make people like them, they can only provide entertainment that people want to see.
On May 13 2013 03:11 JDI1 wrote: Having been in the CS 1.6 scene and knowing a bit about the LoL scene, gotta say SC nerds are quite a bit more insecure and sensitive to internet insults. We live in a world where drama makes the most money, not being nice. Most people who say GLHF and GG don't mean it anyway - they say it cause it's the norm they're tring to fit in.
Mots people that say "good morning" don't really care for how good a morning you might have. Etiquette is important in the world of adults. Only children and the socially retarded don't understand this. Idra is not a child.
This etiquette is horrible, I would much rather have someone tell me their true feelings that they wish me cancer and die compared to this false shit "good morning", with a fakeass smile. World of adults is really insane. Children are more sane then grown ups, took me a long time to finally wake up and actually see this. They say things right out, and its ME who goes insane in my mind at take offense instead of actually understanding their question and statements. We are all a bunch of sick fucks, and only admitting how insane we are, can we start to actually work on it. Like alcoholics do, they actually stop denying their problem, and admit they are sick.
Dude, stop projecting yourself onto others. It's invasive. As a poster above me said brilliantly, that's your sickness to take care off. Ok the world might not make a whole lot of sense but that doesnt mean we cant assign subjective meaning to things.
On May 13 2013 03:11 JDI1 wrote: Having been in the CS 1.6 scene and knowing a bit about the LoL scene, gotta say SC nerds are quite a bit more insecure and sensitive to internet insults. We live in a world where drama makes the most money, not being nice. Most people who say GLHF and GG don't mean it anyway - they say it cause it's the norm they're tring to fit in.
Mots people that say "good morning" don't really care for how good a morning you might have. Etiquette is important in the world of adults. Only children and the socially retarded don't understand this. Idra is not a child.
This etiquette is horrible, I would much rather have someone tell me their true feelings that they wish me cancer and die compared to this false shit "good morning", with a fakeass smile. World of adults is really insane. Children are more sane then grown ups, took me a long time to finally wake up and actually see this. They say things right out, and its ME who goes insane in my mind at take offense instead of actually understanding their question and statements. We are all a bunch of sick fucks, and only admitting how insane we are, can we start to actually work on it. Like alcoholics do, they actually stop denying their problem, and admit they are sick.
I know, i was one of the "tell it how it is" type of guys and hated people that were "fake". Then i grew up, and i'm not talking about chronological age. Being polite and having decent etiquette (this can be wildly different depending on the place) is actually what makes society work.
No, I totally agree with the other guy, cockroaches and worms are the most upright and admirable personalities I know, they are completely honest, always, and don't waste their time with nonsense such as culture. /sarcasm
On May 13 2013 03:11 JDI1 wrote: Having been in the CS 1.6 scene and knowing a bit about the LoL scene, gotta say SC nerds are quite a bit more insecure and sensitive to internet insults. We live in a world where drama makes the most money, not being nice. Most people who say GLHF and GG don't mean it anyway - they say it cause it's the norm they're tring to fit in.
Mots people that say "good morning" don't really care for how good a morning you might have. Etiquette is important in the world of adults. Only children and the socially retarded don't understand this. Idra is not a child.
This etiquette is horrible, I would much rather have someone tell me their true feelings that they wish me cancer and die compared to this false shit "good morning", with a fakeass smile. World of adults is really insane. Children are more sane then grown ups, took me a long time to finally wake up and actually see this. They say things right out, and its ME who goes insane in my mind at take offense instead of actually understanding their question and statements. We are all a bunch of sick fucks, and only admitting how insane we are, can we start to actually work on it. Like alcoholics do, they actually stop denying their problem, and admit they are sick.
First stage: recognize something is wrong. Second stage: denial; pretend everything is right. Third stage: blame everybody else. All others are messed up, only I am right. Fourth stage: recognize that not everybody else is wrong, but maybe that oneself is somehow other than the majority. Adapt and learn to live with it (also called growing up). Alternative fourth stage: continue to live in your own little world where everybody else is messed up (also called becoming a sociopath).
Choose your path wisely. (Edit: didn't mean you Alpino, just wanted to kinda expand on your point )
Would be nice to see him maybe switch to Terran and try his luck with that race before giving up competition. Might have been wasting his talent on the wrong race.
I don't think the community is that good either, but for different reasons. There was a large enough portion of this community that let a character such as idra gain as much fame and popularity as he did because they enjoy seeing bm and rage. I don't think any mature person can be a fan of such behaviour. People may think they're mature, but they're not if they're into that sort of things.
I don't mind trash talking cause I watch sports and that's all in good fun, but Idra's antic always went beyond that mostly. There's a reason the gaming scene in general isn't looked favourably by the general public and it's because there's an immaturity stigma attached to it. I can't really argue that isn't really the case either. Idra may insult these people, but he fails to realize these same people gave him the popularity and fame he got in the first place. If all these people leave, which I agree with him there, then he wouldn't have been as popular as he was in the first place, which is something he fails to recognize.
My point is that people should just let him be IdrA. Let him trash talk. Let him be who he is. It has nothing to do with them. They shouldn't witch hunt him and email sponsors to get him fired because that's what they did. They spammed the sponsors and became butthurt over a little comment and got him fired. Instead of calling for his firing because of not performing, these people decide to do it because of his personality. This is ESPORTS. This is ISN'T HOLLYWOOD. They are POLITICIANS. THEY ARE GAMERS. Firing people for what they say rather than how the play doesn't even make any sense.
i dont think you have any clue of how business,sponsoring,public image and all that works.
if messi starts to shit on barcas fans tommorrow showing them the finger and telling in interviews that football sucks, fans are stupid etc then he wouldnt be playing for long anymore.
also people dont get butthurt over a little comment. idra has been a douchebag to basicly evryone for the last 10 years. this was just the last straw that made it unbearable to have someone like him running around with sponsors on his jacket. ofc for "lesser" teams idra is still interesting cause the views he creates are more important. but eg is big, eg doesnt need idra and doesnt need a player that just causes trouble again and again and again.
idra is a DAMN lucky fella that there are so many people that accept his bullshit(for whatever reason, its not like hes backing that up with skill,style,personality or anything) and that he got so decent money out of eg. cause we all know with that attitude he wouldnt last in ANY job in the world.
Well here's the thing. None of this would even be in the sponsors attention had it not been for the community acting like pansies over the smallest shit. If you didn't notice in Real Talk, IdrA mentions how the sponsors were getting anxious because of the COMMUNITY BACKLASH. Not of the incident but of the BACKLASH it caused. The fact that the community got so pissed because of something small (if you honestly thought it was a big deal, you should reconsider your life priorities), is a sign that this community is quite frankly dying. We're sitting here scrutinizing people over what they say rather than how they play. Why the fuck does this community care about what the players say? Is this community really that pathetic now that they need to pretend like they're some "white knights" of esports. Esports is DYING because of this community. They put unnecessary attention on the littlest things that sponsors would probably never hear of had it not been of the community backlash. You guys literally give e-sports a bad name because you go apeshit over people raging in a video game. A fucking video game. You guys go apeshit over a person making a controversial joke. You go apeshit over a person making a controversial comment on a forum. Reconsider your priorities because if you honestly care about what these players say, you literally have no life. This community needs to grow the fuck up and grow some balls.
i dont even know what to say. public statements from public persons get read and cared about by the fanbase that basicly pays the person? HOW TOTALLY WEIRD AND UNEXPECTED!
just because you dont understand how the business and sponsoring works and apparently dont know anything about idras past either doesnt mean its fine what he does/did.
also i dont know whos smurf account you are (99% posts in eg/idra threads on a lowpost acc) but it seems YOU are getting upset,YOU are defending a guy that basicly said on many occassions "fuck you i dont give a damn", YOU go into a rage about some guy getting fired in "A GAME". so maybe YOU should get your priorities straight, get a life and all the other fun stuff you wrote there.
On May 12 2013 20:41 yeeshdontjudgeme wrote:
On May 12 2013 20:35 Rioo wrote:
On May 12 2013 20:27 Mangooze wrote: I bet not a single person on this planet is truly offended by that "fucks" post. I doubt even anyone actually cares about the post itself... people only care about drama around it. It is all bullshit feelings. If a post is against the rules, just ban the user.
The wishing someone cancer thing I think is too much and I understand sponsors and EG had to do something about that.
You don't need to be offended by his behavior to find it pathetic and more suited for a 12 y.o. angry kid, not the "face of American Starcraft" to new viewers.
So it's our job to punish for being who he is? Get real. If he wants to act that way so be it. Don't witch hunt him for being who he is: REAL. Unlike most of these players in this community. Most of these players are FAKE and say the most bullshit responses. That might have flew in 2011 but I'm honestly not impressed anymore since it's same bullshit every single time. I'd much rather have the face of American StarCraft have personality rather than these anti-social zombies be our "Great White Hope."
i wouldnt call it "personality". its more on the side of a mental disorder. but good to know that you like it so much when people treat you like shit and act like arrogant douchebags. im sure the next time a guy comes up in a bar to you and says " he pay me a beer loser" youll go all glowy eyes and admire his great personality right?
I'm only acting out because I care about e-sports. I care about this community as well. I care about this community because our actions are what the sponsors see the most or what the outside world sees the most. Players are not the only ones that represent e-sports. When we talk, we represent it as well. So when we get people fired over stupid shit I get pissed off.
Whenever stuff like the Orb incident or Destiny came out, I kept quiet because I felt that the community would find it's way back. Now we have motherfucking IdrA getting the axe because of his comments. I couldn't take anymore. And people were acting like it wasn't a big deal that he got axed. HE LOST HIS JOB. Not over his RESULTS. But over his DEMEANOR. Even though he is a COMPETITIVE PLAYER. I'd much rather have IdrA be released for results rather than his demeanor. Instead, the community decided to be a like a white knight and witch hunt him. This community is dead to me.
His personality was that he didn't give a shit. And I respect that. Why do you care so much? Shouldn't you be talking about his LACKLUSTER results? Because this is a COMPETITIVE scene. Talk more about how he isn't good. Why the fuck do you care about what he says?
Are you telling me that just because someone is doing his 'job', he doesn't have to respect others? So if a coworker is performing well, he can just tell his boss in a meeting to Fxxk off and not expect to be fired? What world DO you live in?
IdrA never told his boss to fuck off so I don't know why you comparing that situation to what he did.
But I think I understand your point. My point is that the stuff he says aren't even a big deal. It's only the community that overreacts and make it look like a big deal to the sponsors. By giving attention to small details to sponsors, sponsors get anxious. Sponsors probably don't even know about half the stupid shit pro gamers say because people don't overreact. However, people feel the need to give unnecessary attention to the smallest things, which in effect gives e-sports a bad rep. The outside world would probably never learn of the dumb shit these pros say had it not been for the community.
I disagree.
Nobody knew about Orb's rage. Nobody knew about Destiny's [you know what] pic. Nobody knew about Stephano's controversial jokes. Nobody knew about IdrA's mean comments. That was until the community decided to go apeshit over all those incidents. Nobody, not even the sponsors, would've have known. Yet people had to blow the situations way out of proportion and make e-sports look fragile when it really isn't.
If something is on the internet in a public fashion, you have to assume that everybody knows, because it is available to everyone. The community does play a a factor in all this, because it attributed a certain value to the situation. Still, it would be naive to assume that sponsors don't actually look at the scene as a whole. Quite the contrary I propose. Since sponsors are involved in more than one game, thus in more than one scene and more in depth, since they don't only see what's public but they also know what happens behind the scenes through teams, they have a greater and broader view of the situation than an average fan, viewer, whatever. I believe that it is not the community to attribute a crucial value, but indeed the organizations directly involved with the matter. We have to remember that the Starcraft-Community is only a little piece of the internet-community or humanity as a whole. The grounds on which the decision was made are values that we generally cherish, regardless of which game you prefer. To call a lot of people "fucks", to wish someone cancer, to be disrespectful towards not only players but in some cases also persons is not something that gets overlooked elsewhere. If this had happened in many other scenes, it would have had the same consequences, probably even earlier or harsher. It is common sense to behave adequately. So this situation isn't by any means new to humankind or unique. It happened before and it will happen again. To your point that it looks "fragile": I disagree firmly. I believe this to be a strong decision. To cut one of the most valuable players/personalities from your team because of ethnic issues displays toughness to me.
To summarize my point in a single sentence: The community is not to blame.
It would have probably happened, even if there was no out-rage on reddit or somewhere else. Sooner or later doesn't really matter.
On May 13 2013 07:12 Unidus wrote: Would be nice to see him maybe switch to Terran and try his luck with that race before giving up competition. Might have been wasting his talent on the wrong race.
Getting to his current skill level with a different race would be a huge time investment. Plus it's not about the race, it's about the game and the competition that doesnt appeal to him anymore.
On May 13 2013 04:05 ValM wrote: Can someone link me to the Idra's JP interview or any other interview he gave recently please?
Interesting video. While I never really liked his behavior, he is a really good analytical commentator and I'd love to see him cast an MLG or Dreamhack tournament.
On May 13 2013 05:47 Hey Sean. wrote: If people here think simple polite greetings like "Good Morning" is being fake, then you really need to take a look at yourself. If you really think people are being fake when they're just being normal human beings, it's because you're projecting your own ideas onto them. Using phrases like "the world of adults" does not make your ideas any more valid, it just makes you immature. Yes, you change the way you act depending on who you're around, that's just how social hierarchies work. That doesn't mean you're being fake though.
As far as actual insults go: You're a moron/idiot/whatever = Fine Get raped/I hope you get cancer = Not fine
Cancer/rape etc effect lots of people and their families, it causes massive amounts of harm to so many people wishing it on someone else is disgusting.People who do use those sorts of insults seriously need to think about the harm those things do before lashing out. "I don't mean it though" then don't say that.
You're an idiot is fine because being an idiot isn't particularly harmful and it's of my opinion that it doesn't ruin as many lives as cancer and whatever else.
Yeah I really liked that video. I think you can see that Idra is a really good person deep down, and he doesn't mean the things he says. I hope he finds success on his own, I would be afraid .
At all of the above commentary, all I have to say is that there is a place for being tactful. You don't have to completely lie or anything like that, but there is a way to tell the truth in a respectful way and a way to do it by being a jerk, and we should choose the former.
Also society isn't built on giving fake "good mornings" or other faked pleasantries; I think on the whole people have a genuine interest in being respectful and nice to strangers. The only issue as it relates to Idra is that he let his anger get the better of him, as the video explains, and he didn't really mean what he said to his true fans.
On May 13 2013 05:08 Defacer wrote: The irony in all this is that IdrA complains that the community doesn't care about results, and only cares about pandering and 'entertainment.'
A more accurate statement is that competition IS entertainment, but there are countless times that IdrA refused to compete and fight, not only for his fans but for himself.
That's not accurate at all. If it was, his viewership wouldn't be consistently in the Top 3.
Whether you agree with the sentiment or not, there's is absolutely no denying that competitive players get absolutely crappy viewer numbers compared to the entertainers.
I guess what I'm getting at is that for idra to criticize the community for valuing pandering over competition, when he himself didn't treat competition seriously or understand how competition can be entertaining, made him part of the problem.
I don't see how. For one, his career started at the extreme end of competition...when streaming didn't exist and the community barely mattered.
And for another, how can you possibly call IdrA "part of the problem"? If he wasn't around, viewers would just jump to people like Husky, Day9, or Destiny. And if those personalities weren't around, those people simply wouldn't watch anyone. Entertainers can't make people like them, they can only provide entertainment that people want to see.
Well, the way you behave dictates the kind of audience you have, doesn't it? It's like a feedback loop. It doesn't mean your completely powerless to change it.
I can understand why IdrA might be bitter about how frivolous or mean-spirited his fans and the community could be. They weren't exactly fair, and crueler to him than probably anyone else in the community. Then again, he is probably the most mean-spirited and antagonistic player on the scene. He's just as guilty as anyone of instigating drama needlessly.
At the end of the day, he's the one in control of his own image. And to say that he isn't partially responsible for the 'entertainment' or melodrama that the community has an appetite for isn't true. He actively created it.
But to his credit, I think moving away from competition seems like his way of turning the page, and focusing on producing content that isn't just about generating drama.
(I kind of think it's unfair to lump Husky and Day9 in with Destiny, by the way. Husky and Day9 invest a lot of time and energy producing original content that makes SC2 palatable to a broader audience. Destiny is more like trainwreck entertainment, to be honest, which IdrA was drifting towards. I imagine not having to deal with the pressure of competing will let IdrA focus on what he's great at, which is high-level analysis and commentary. He could be Day 9 for people that don't need funny faces to pay attention. Already, based on the video, the guy seems more excited about Starcraft than he has in years.)
EPT
people
)
