EPTCall to Action: May 2 Balance Testing - Page 24
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On May 04 2013 01:51 wUndertUnge wrote: Agreed. Theyr'e just trying to give more options at various points in the game. The oracle change isn't even for early aggression. It's to give more mid to late game maneuverability (and to reward micro, according to blizzard) If you want oracles to be used as late game damage dealers then you need to make them out-range marines and hydras. And if you do that then they need to move extremely slow while there weapon is active. In fact that is what I would of done. Give them range 7 but when they activate the weapon reduce the movement speed to 1.85, until it is deactivated. | ||
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rpgalon
Brazil1069 Posts
On May 04 2013 02:52 hzflank wrote: If you want oracles to be used as late game damage dealers then you need to make them out-range marines and hydras. And if you do that then they need to move extremely slow while there weapon is active. In fact that is what I would of done. Give them range 7 but when they activate the weapon reduce the movement speed to 1.85, until it is deactivated. low range/HP with high speed/damage is fun and what protoss lacks, there is already a big number of units that have high range/HP but low speed/damage in the protoss army. | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On May 04 2013 02:59 rpgalon wrote: low range with more speed and high damage with low health is fun and what protoss lacks, there is already a big number of units that have high range but are slow with no damage but huge HP in the protoss army. Very true, but it means the oracle can never be used in a battle in the late game (kind of like reapers I suppose). Therefore, the oracle is a harass unit in the early game and must be relegated to a non combat scouting role in the late game. | ||
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FlukyS
Ireland485 Posts
Buffing spores is the least im worried about balance wise for SC2 currently. It helps but the fact hydra suck so hard is more of what im worried about. Being able to burrow for cheaper just means I can hide the fact my units are worse for a few seconds. | ||
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Ksi
357 Posts
On May 04 2013 01:07 Avril_Lavigne wrote: "Oracles will be near impossible to counter with ground units if the Protoss player micros perfectly. This actually sounds pretty cool and helps differentiate the Oracle from other harass units in the game." lol blizzard...... Yeah...David Kim has just gone full retard. I like the Oracle in concept as a unit that rewards Protoss for multi-tasking, but no unit should offer so much lethality combined with effective immunity to ground anti air. Blizzard really should've looked into the cost of the Oracle first, then its viability as a support unit that can also be used as harassment into the mid to late game. | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
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Armada Vega
Canada120 Posts
On May 04 2013 03:09 FlukyS wrote: The fact that the hellbat and widow mines are both unchanged makes me so angry. Like you never see them in TvP and I haven't seen huge use for them in TvT at pro level other than taking down drops. Then they dominate TvZ and it takes so much less APM to use them but it takes huge APM to counter them. Then add in hellbat drops being the most gimmicky of strategies and you get what TvZ has turned into. Just a gimmickfest where the Zerg makes 1 mistake and then instantly loses. It was kind of all ways a bit unforgiving of a game but its gotten to ridiculous proportions and its not raising the skill cap across the board its just making it incredibly frustrating to play 1 side of a match up. Buffing spores is the least im worried about balance wise for SC2 currently. It helps but the fact hydra suck so hard is more of what im worried about. Being able to burrow for cheaper just means I can hide the fact my units are worse for a few seconds. I would disagree with the statement on TvT. Hellbats are used a lot in drops just like in TvZ, and terrans want them nerfed just as bad. Mines are somewhat different. Mines can be abused in where the terran makes stupid amounts everywhere and just a-moves you when you make a mistake. You are forced to save scans and make a raven or 2, where as the other terran doesn't have to. The biggest problem with mines is they make TvT immune to drops, whether it be bio, marine tank or mech drops. pluss 11/11 proxy reapers still win you the game lol. oh how tvt has gone to shit. Anyway, I have played the patch map as my offrace, protoss, and my proxy oracles don't die. I was able to build up to 5 without loosing health on any of them, killed 20+ workers on average. You are uncontested going oracles, as I feared. If you see early starport you just mass zealots since terrans ground army will be smaller. and 4 oracles focusing down a turret can kill it before terran goes to repair it. If you are losing oracles from the speed boost, I have to argue that it is most likely your reaction time is either slow or not realizing when the new acceleration reaches full speed. Also using terran's own buildings against him when running away is essential, with or without oracle buffs. The Oracle buffs may not seem all that amazing if you make the stargate in your base, the delay per new oracle that reaches the terran base adds up until terran finally has some turrets and a viking. Its the proxy stargate and the growing oracle count that quickly goes out of control. The first oracle is guaranteed to do damage, the 2nd one not as much, but 3 with energy, then a 4th, then a 5th, and its just a gg waiting to happen. | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
On May 04 2013 03:25 Ksi wrote: Yeah...David Kim has just gone full retard. I like the Oracle in concept as a unit that rewards Protoss for multi-tasking, but no unit should offer so much lethality combined with effective immunity to ground anti air. Blizzard really should've looked into the cost of the Oracle first, then its viability as a support unit that can also be used as harassment into the mid to late game. i find it hilarious that they didn't think of mutalisks, when they make this comparison LOL edit: also, blizzard reducing the cost of an excellent upgrade (burrow) to 50/50 is ridiculous. they need to do other things, burrow should not be this cheap for how useful it is | ||
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skylarr
Canada209 Posts
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TheFish7
United States2824 Posts
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
On May 04 2013 03:53 skylarr wrote: Blizzard clearly doesnt know why ZvZ is the way it is now.... even now when theres a spore crawler people just back away until the have a shit ton of mutas. Increasing the damage won't change anything it gives you the option to spore the fuck out of a base and yolo attack with everything. before, it was nearly impossible to win base trade vs Mutalisk, noww it is at least a reaslitic idea | ||
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ZenDeX
Philippines2916 Posts
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EvanC
Canada130 Posts
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
On May 04 2013 04:00 ZenDeX wrote: They shouldn't touch the game at its current state. What the hell is Blizzard thinking? that zergs are struggling at a high level, the mirror is a joke becuase they overbuffed the unit for this matchup, but now are unwilling to change it back and so are buffing spores or add a speed/regen upgrade like many zergs have suggested, and oracles are getting shut down pretty easily in the pro leagues | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On May 04 2013 03:34 IdrA wrote: he's always been full retard lol'd Really though. I said it in the other thread, I will say it here. If you buff oracle speed, nerf its damage. | ||
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-VapidSlug-
United States108 Posts
On May 03 2013 08:08 aike wrote: Time for Sporecrawler/phoenix pushes in 2v2s against terran/zerg combos?! haha. Spore crawlers will be straight-up IMBA vs. lifted zerglings. | ||
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Malpractice.248
United States734 Posts
On May 04 2013 03:34 IdrA wrote: he's always been full retard Not really. Hes slowly made the game more balanced than it ever was. Honestly, you just have issues with losing and often time blame balance rather than your play or choices. Z has been fine. Need slight buffs here and there, maybe, but theres no "glaring weakness" with any race atm. Anyone can win, if you play right. Id also say; rather than but a stupid, pointless comment out there, give evidence or shit to back it up to open discussion. Otherwise, dont say anything. Anyway, I think the oracle buff is nice. Youre really spending a lot to go stargate/oracle, and limiting the speed of your +2 upgrades. It should be rewarding. To say it cant be countered by ground units really isnt true. positioning and static defenses become key. I like the burrow change, would like to see a OL drop cost decrease, as well. Would also like to see a slight Widow nerf, and maybe 25 energy to afterburner... And maybe drop contaminate to 100 energy, or make Overseers a tad cheaper. AND MAKE OVERSEERS MAINTAIN SWEET SKIN OF OVERLORD TY | ||
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ImperialFist
790 Posts
What is next? Marines get +4 attack since we feel that their dps is too low atm? | ||
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PanzerElite
540 Posts
On May 04 2013 03:44 Armada Vega wrote: and its just a gg waiting to happen. more like quitting without words and going to the next match, 'super imba gg' or rage into quitting | ||
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