So let me get this straight, Blizzard. SC2 WoL is in beta. Burrow is at Tier 1 and costs 50/50. You then shove it into Tier 2 and make it cost 100/100. For the next 2+ years.

Then HotS comes out. And now you decide that, hey, maybe the Zerg really should have early, cheap burrow? Even though Zerg Tier 1 hasn't changed much since WoL.

Can you people ever stick to an idea? It's one thing if you realize you made a mistake, but that should have been a few months after the original change, not 2+ years later. It's like you're just throwing a bunch of crap against the wall and seeing what sticks.

ymir233

United States8275 Posts

May 03 2013 04:48 GMT

#184

On May 03 2013 13:31 FoShao wrote:
crybabies always point at protoss -_- seriously there is NO oracle play in tournaments, just cause you lost to oracles on ladder doesn't make it broken...

I like how you've never seen a proxy oracle tourney vod in your life...

Who is Parting again lols

FakeDeath

Malaysia6060 Posts

May 03 2013 04:58 GMT

#185

On May 03 2013 13:31 FoShao wrote:
crybabies always point at protoss -_- seriously there is NO oracle play in tournaments, just cause you lost to oracles on ladder doesn't make it broken...

Clearly haven't watch Parting/HerO/MC playing.

Spore buff changes nothing.
It will be good against the first small pack of mutas that come out.
Later on not so much against the huge flock of mutas.

But what Muta gives is map control.
And that is what spore cannot deterred.

ZvZ will still be Muta vs Muta.
Blizzard think Spores can deterred Muta?

So wrong.

Oracle buff.
I can't comment much on it since it is mainly a PvT.

Burrow change is now back at Tier 1 50/50.
People forget but this Burrow change Tier1 50/50 was already in WOL beta and it was broken.

Burrow change won't make it in.
It will be too good.

Those 5:50:6.00 min roach/ling burrow timing attack will be brutal.

Blizzard...........................* facepalm*

Rainling

United States456 Posts

May 03 2013 04:59 GMT

#186

I don't understand why people dislike the oracle change. In my opinion, faster oracles are better for the game than slower oracles. Like DK says, faster oracles with higher acceleration would better reward micro. This would make oracles less of an all-or-nothing unit and more of a multipurpose harass unit.

Yes, oracles will likely be too strong with this change. Do you not think that Blizzard will nerf the oracle if it turns out to be imbalanced? IMO this change isn't really about balance, it's about making the oracle a more interesting unit. In the development of interesting, fun units, design should come first. Balance comes second. Would you rather have a boring unit for the rest of Starcraft 2, or an interesting unit that rewards micro that's imbalanced for a few weeks?

D4V3Z02

Germany693 Posts

May 03 2013 05:02 GMT

#187

Come on Blizzard, just make burrow like siege.

megid

Brazil142 Posts

May 03 2013 05:07 GMT

#188

Oracle buff is the dumbest change i ever seen in this game since the WoL beta. I can't believe that someone who actually PLAY ( not only watch ) the game can in a health mind suggest this type of change.

uh-oh

Hong Kong135 Posts

May 03 2013 05:09 GMT

#189

I can tell you from experience vs a well defended opponent, early oracle play simply gets shut down. When terran sees two pylons and no tech in the main there can only be two options: DTs or proxy oracles, both of which can be defended by one single turret in each mineral line and a couple of marines. Reapers can scout popular proxy locations and well placed supply depots give terrans time to react to an oracle swooping in. When I face this I'll simply back of and try to use revelation later on. The thing is mid/late game revelation is quite hard because terrans always have vikings vs colossi and their range is long enough to shut down oracles. For those of you who dont know revelation range is actually pretty low, it also automatically gives the 'you are under attack signal' which means vikings and marines will attempt to chase down an oracle. If the terran has enough vikings the oracle just dies in one volley. Also because oracle has a rather low acceleration, stimmed marines can actually catch up to an oracle before it reaches it's top speed, rendering revelation a one time spell only. Right now I only use revelation when I have the terrain advantage where I can run away over cliffs and dead spaces but this, imo really restricts the utility of revelation, which is why I think the oracle buff is pretty interesting.

RogerChillingworth

Chad3073 Posts

May 03 2013 05:10 GMT

#190

On May 03 2013 13:38 Belha wrote:
The oracle buff is almost as bad as the muta buff.

with all the massive buffs to other shit, mutas needed to be inflated. either that or big buffs to other units...blizzard chose mutas.

Iron_

United States389 Posts

May 03 2013 05:10 GMT

#191

Overall I love what Blizzard did with HOTS, so I will try not and go overboard here, but the oracle change seems like a bad idea. The issue with protoss is that it was too easy to play in WOL. It is still easier than Terran and Zerg, but with MS core and oracles involved, there is more to "do" in the game, which makes the race a little harder to play. Oracles kill shit really really quickly. They also die quickly. This is a good balance. Making them super easy to use because nothing can hit them is, IMO, the wrong way to go, and going backwards.

Protoss does not have to be easy. It's ok if their super strong harass unit can actually be killed if they don't micro. If you want to make it a tad more forgiving, I can see a small HP or shield boost, but if they are going to be fast enough to easily escape any danger, they need to do less damage.

DemigodcelpH

1138 Posts

May 03 2013 05:12 GMT

#192

Burrow is too cheap for the extreme utility it provides.

Insoleet

France1806 Posts

May 03 2013 05:16 GMT

#193

I like spore buff. This will greatly help to add infestors to your muta flock before the game snowballs in stale muta vs muta flock.

Oracle buff, I like. Maybe it is too strong, and they'll nerf its damage later.

Burrow buff, I like. I wonder that we are gonna see with such a buff.

CountZero71

Germany89 Posts

May 03 2013 05:21 GMT

#194

It's funny, how nearly every post regarding the oracle demands not only the buff not to happen, but rather to check all the other too powerful features of Toss.
In order to stop the never ending streak of Protoss tournament wins? Like we had for 3 yrs in WoL???

frontline-

Bulgaria281 Posts

May 03 2013 05:25 GMT

#195

Retarded & unnecessary changes. All of them.

Terran doesn't get anything new?

Lol

Insoleet

France1806 Posts

May 03 2013 05:26 GMT

#196

On May 03 2013 09:24 mechengineer123 wrote:

Show nested quote +

How do you figure? Overlords spot it coming in advance, spores don't require evo and you can move them, queens are already there anyway. Terran will basically have to go 12rax15ebay now, lol, and then you die to any allin.

Or you reaper expand like flash does, and you can get the map control and check for proxies...

Thrillz

4313 Posts

May 03 2013 05:28 GMT

#197

On May 03 2013 14:02 D4V3Z02 wrote:
Come on Blizzard, just make burrow like siege.

Automatic burrow would not only be overpowered, but would ruin every matchup.

Seeker

Where dat snitch at?37043 Posts

May 03 2013 05:34 GMT

#198

Oracles rape the crap out of marines already, and they gave it a speed boost?

-___-;;

This pretty much FORCES Terran to always have to build turrets or prepare widow mines in advance...

dustinth

China205 Posts

May 03 2013 05:36 GMT

#199

It's not wise to change when games are not stable enough.
I still insist changing the map instead of balance.

Tppz!

Germany1449 Posts

May 03 2013 05:36 GMT

#200

On May 03 2013 14:34 Seeker wrote:
Oracles rape the crap out of marines already, and they gave it a speed boost?

-___-;;

This pretty much FORCES Terran to always have to build turrets or prepare widow mines in advance...

which will resolve in no oracles ever in pvt.